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Ohh thanks Good to know. Now I know that even breakthrough doses don't involve necessarily blissfull states. But what's your opinion, are sub breakthrough doses for beginners plain wrong? I just felt extremely anxiety like the universe was about to collapse, and it was all just me in here and the others were like evil people that finally managed to get me into the wrong situation at the wrong time instead of doing something productively I'm sitting here with this facilitator and tryng to murder myself. Maybe a little bit exaggerated but at the peak of the anxiety that's what I felt. And that doesn't seem to have a therapeutic value, yet I'm thinking about doing it Again with a higher dose but can't really get myself to it and risk to damage something. They say I need to trust, but then stories about no bliss after breakthrough makes me wonder if it's worth it, but its still better than that oncoming ego dying phase?

Beats me I'm not a yogi nor am I enlightened. I could never fully grasp their perspective from my current state of consciousness. I only have glimpses from psychedelic use. Reaching such states of bliss has a lot of implications. Contemplate on how much your ego and identity drives your life and perceptions and what implications would come if you fully disidentified with it. A craving would not be a craving. It would just be any other experience that is experienced and passes. Acting upon it no longer becomes necessary. How else does a monk burn in fire looking so peaceful?

Yes, constant bliss should be the ultimate goal. But why do so many yogis talk about siddhis then? They should just avoid that part entirely and ignore it, or show some kind of proof for it. But even if a person reaches bliss, they will still have cravings like a "normal" person do, unless these enlightened people are lying about being enlightened.

@Natasha I've stopped drinking milk for the most part. I never drink it just to drink it and would only drink it for say cereal or something. No real desire for it. Thought yogurt was considered dairy too? I hope it is healthy because there are a lot of probiotic yogurts I LOVE. And there are so many kinds it is food bliss. Can't resist cheese though. I stick it on just about everything it goes on. Big struggle.

Okay so this was my first time and was not a breakthrough. The smoke was very easy to take a hold in (nothing like dmt) and the smell and taste were very very familiar. This was almost as if I was re-experiencing the first taste I've ever tasted once more. So we had a small glass pipe and a bic lighter - not the best for when it's windy out but it seemed to do the trick. The location was below some Incan ruins, next to a river in the mountains. Now Dmt gives me anxiety which I always need to work through when smoking, and as such I was apprehensive about smoking bufo (one of the reasons I didn't breakthrough, also I wanted to test the waters a bit) however this seemed to bypass that entirely. I took 3 hits and was not expecting the psychedelic effects at all, especially as I've read you don't get any visions. Everything was extremely defined and blending together and I could feel myself losing touch with reality (this makes it hard to take more hits also but my facilitator was doing all the pipe work). I laid down and went straight to bliss, I saw twisting shapes and colours, there was a total feeling of centered-ness, I felt home, free with no worries, a deep deep feeling of inner peace all whilst the shaman played quartz bowls around me which really helped to amplify the experience. I can't get over the taste, its so familiar. Sorry this is not more descriptive but overall I got a taste of the bliss, felt a oneness, I could feel some insect crawling over my face and hand but this didn't matter at all, my body simply sank into the earth and the illusion of disconnection was removed. All I can really think to say is bliss and tranquility, equanimity. I am extremely happy to have taken a peek at the potential here and will be partaking in another ceremony in a few days and then again in a month and a half hopefully. Also I must say, there are practioners out there offering bufo from $3000 upwards. This is very very wrong. I paid $30!!!! This is a medicine, an extremely profound and powerful tool and should by no means be reduced to a commodity. The medicine should be available to all, not those who have a wad of cash to splurge. I will try to pull out more information from my next experience that I can share with you but from what I've been told it is very hard to do so. My mind just keeps repeating bliss bliss bliss. It is extremely grounding and comforting to know that this bliss exists all the time. I think this feels like a connection with the power we hold in ourselves that we call to in times of need, the driving force that keeps us going when we feel like we can't go on any longer (or essentially when our egos are dragging us down). Also above I mentioned that reality was slipping away, well actuslly I think it's more so the other way round, this was breaking down the illusion and revealing the source to me. Again this was just a glimpse which is even more amazing to me at the potential this stuff holds.

Doseage is just eyeballed and you smoke as much as you can. Not a breakthrough because I still had a sense of self, but I did experience bliss and oneness. These words have different levels of meaning - I can experience a level of it meditating but I know there are levels my brain can't comprehend. Its a ceremony so you pay for that;1 trip although theres always been a bit left over each time that I have afterwards.

“Spiritual advancement is not measured by one’s outward powers, but only by the depth of his bliss in meditation.” Spiritual advancement for pursuit of superpowers is not the way to go. That in of itself becomes an egoic desire. It would actually hinder you than help you. To truly understand you might need to inquire more in what is it thats truly causing you to not be in a state of constant bliss. Or psychedelics. Thats the only reason why I understood the point of meditation.

@winterknight Look, your idea that there is no experience doesn't even make sense. ( I am not talking about the brain, the discussion is already over, I know you don't believe in the brain, don't bring that up again) It's not like I am a complete materialist, for a long time I have read and followed and loved ( and still do) Buddha, Osho, Leo Gura, and their teachings make sense, that is why they have huge followers not you. None of them have ever said that 'That is not experience'. Even Leo Gura the founder of this site that you are using to increase your followers, believes that there is nothing but direct experience. https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/36099-direct-experience-relativity/#comment-446252 "There is nothing but direct experience, so you have no other other but to trust it. Name one thing which isn't in your direct experience? You cannot." - Leo And here you are disagreeing again and again without any reason. When you say, that is not experience, it's like saying a triangle is round, a square has 5 sides,the color red is blue. This only means that you have lost a follower, who is actually a follower and lover of people like Osho, Sadhguru, Leo , Buddha. If you want to gain followers then you can't put out nonsensical (hence false) stuff and expect you will have a mass following. Yes, there will be those who will follow you, doesn't mean everyone will, because people do sense truth, and when they sense truth they flock there. Where there is truth, there is a following. Your philosophy base itself is not properly made, so it's difficult to believe you have moved up spiritually. Even if you get followers , it will be because you focused on other stuffs, but just try putting 'there is no experience' as your central teaching and go on emphasizing it again and again, I bet there won't be many following you. Instead of giving short quip answers like that of Deepak Chopra that sound intelligent , try to properly convince people that 'that is not experience, realization of xyz (meaningless of language, inchorehence of realization as concept, your definition of enlightenment) is not experience, try doing that. And that would be impressive. You constantly play the word game- realization of destruction of incoherence of language. Reminding me of Deepak Chopra. And guess what, he plays that game even better, and he has millions of followers. And the common consensus about him whether you look at his youtube video comments, or google search or his facebook page comments, is that he is a charlatan. While people like Buddha, Osho, Sadhguru, Leo are revered. Because everybody loves those who spread the light of truth. (over time atleast. Like Jesus was crucified, Bruno was burned, but they are saints now). While those who spread of lies, are not. (Joseph Smith, Mormonism, Scientology) You don't have to put in it in highly complex terms like you and Deepak Chopra do. Truth is pure and simple. Just saying " Okay, I can't convince you , you yourself should walk the path" ignoring me would make me feel(though notfull convince) that you are enlightened, but using highly complex words to redefine, correct my statements over and over again, I don't see Buddha or Osho doing that. They would just ignore me and rest in their bliss. Which also shows sign of egolessness, but your posts shows the opposite. I don't see any bodhisattva like compassion radiating from you and I am talking about each of your post, not this one. Just continuosly correcting and redefining terms according to your ideology. This is __. This is not___ but ____.All your post are of that kind. It shouldn't be very difficulto for a lay person to identify when he sees a truly enlightened person, atleast not as difficult as doing a sherlock holmes investigation. Even animals recognize an enlightened being. Even plants do. And here not only do I not immediately feel like you are enlightened (which I should if you truly were) but allyour behavioural evidence,the demonstration of your ego, your obvious desire to get followers your youtube vids, point toward opposite. You are indoctrinated. That's all.

@fryingLotus First usage but not a break through ??? - what was your dosage ? Why you feel its not a breakthrough ? Though your narrative says you experienced No-self,oneness,bliss ? How many milli grams for 30 dollars or how many trips one can go with that ?

Okay update here guys. The first session: Not full release, felt bliss, oneness, very grounding. Wow. I felt the healing potential. The second session: More hits from the pipe. Wow anxiety my old friend what you playing at? Completely inside my own head, can't relax, can't just be, trying to let go and feel all sensations but my mind is racing to get away. After this I started coming down and there was no afterglow like before. Everything looked darker, it looked like anxiety. I then got a huge wave of anxiety that felt like it would last forever but it passed. I think I was on the brink of passing over but the dose was just enough to set me into the uncomfortable stage where my ego had power to fihht back and did not want to give in. This is what I'm hoping anyway but man it's hard and I get the same thing from normal dmt. So essentially I feel that more intake would have broken me through all the anxiety. Also I feel like the anxiety wave was a layer of my ego returning. So as if my ego was coming back gradually in blocks as I returned to normal. I feel like the anxiety needs to be dealt with and I felt so ready to handle it, this was the confusing thing. I meditated for an hour in the morning (as normal), did some self inquiry for 30 minutes, got some revelations, then later before the ceremony I felt bliss after I spent about 45 minutes self affirming I am ready, I give in, I trust myself, I trust the medicine, I embrace fear, fear is just a label we give to a sensation, there is nothing special about it, I approach fear with curiosity etc etc. So this self affirmation session eventually resulted in my brain just giving up and thoughts seemed to vanish. I then felt happiness come over me. So yeah I felt pretty ready and still had a difficult, uncomfortable experience where all meditation seemed to go out the window. I'm currently reassesing and will be doing another tomorrow probably (eeeek!!). My point here is that if you have lots of underlying issues then, you may break through them or it may bring them all to the surface and you'll feel them in full force. It didn't really feel like it was working me through them either. It actually felt bad for my brain, like I could feel wires getting mixed up and now I have a headache. There was stress and an 'oh no' feeling on the sobering up stage. Maybe someone else could share some words of wisdom for me as I'm not sure where my future with psychedelics lies at this time with this same blockage being experienced time and time again. Time to hit the pen and paper again to get all of these thoughts out. Edit: @Leo Gura help!

Hi, I have recently had the experience/feeling (while reading a book by Stanislav Grof) that spirituality might just be some kind of societal brainwashing. While the essence of it is pure and divine, the context in which it is put leads to pure destruction. I feel like there is a form of unconscious manipulation. The media and a broad spectrum of dualities. Okay to get cynical about occasionally. Just watched a documentary about psychiatry. It's scary what happens at those places. Sometimes you are just at a kind of stage when you get cynical and then it goes to that extreme of despair. In some way this is a very pure state. It makes you realize things. It's one state of consciousness as well as there are many other. There is the one of pure bliss, there is the one of dream and the one of half consciousness. Half consciousness being meta activities like anything you are not proud about. The merge of hills of longing and pushing towards edges. Pure trash of mind. Cleansing.

Yup this is a non dual state, this is classical enlightenment. I’m conscious of nothing or mu. Omniscient consciousness was so much different. it was more rich with god than this. But then as I am typing this. I am also this, so I’m not the one typing. Consciousness is nothingness. IM SO CONFUSED LOL this feels total and feels like it is likely to contain omniscient consciousness than omniscient consciousness is likely to be this. It’s like omniscient would happen inside of nothingness. I feel like I understand every non dual being now lol. Infinite peace, infinite bliss, infinite consciousness , freedom from suffering lol. It all makes sense. Still lol the funny thing is we have to take into consideration that my base level of consciousness was reduced by like 1000- 10000 fold from omnipresent enlightenment. So it’s understandable that I’m only seeing non dual enlightenment now. Especially because I was conscious of god at a higher degree of enlightenment before. It’s easier to maintain. OKAY yes I’ve put this into perspective. This is like using no mind but even you can let your thoughts pass, you could let anything pass and you wouldn’t attach to it because you knew you werr consciousness. But this non dual enlightenment has nothing to do with how god works or even using language to work it out. Like the answer would simply be ohh that’s consciousness. But omniscient present is like, you are conscious of gods design. Like the whole of reality. Theyre very two different states. I’m not sure how they correlate.

So according to Bob Lazar, there is ancient Tech which can produce anti gravity fields without wiring, letting vehicles fly and maneuvre like a red light dot in the dark. I think the guy is trustworthy, seems like the Gov. just didnt kill him in time, or was not prepared for such a leak in the past. So this was 1960-80s We have alien tech, gov is communicating with DMT entities (see crazy infowars) ah and btw you are God and reality is your imagination. Man I love this shit. I see why God wants to play, I want to play too. I think dualities are the most fundamental truth You want knowledge? Prepare for fear and loneliness, and ultimately not-knowing You want happiness? Prepare for sadness, discipline and consciousness, and ultimately conscious bliss You want freedom? Prepare for discipline and self government, ultimately self control You want to be financial free? Prepare to unlearn, uncover, run against a whole system, trust yourself, struggle and counter-intuitiveness

There are no words, the understanding seems to lie in just being. Seriously wtf bro haha its crazy that you know this is here all along. Its like your whole life is just your ego expanding like a balloon thats going to pop and then some frog venom gradually deflates you softly and all built up anxieties are just wiped out with your mind being safely tucked up in bliss.

@Natasha yes I agree, maybe I am spreading my own projections of an enlightened lifestyle. There has been a recent development which has caused me to stop the journey. Ofcourse I don’t mind. But I get you 100% , there will always be an incling to go further and isolate yourself at all cost. In one of Leo’s blog videos. It’s said to be existential loneliness, this is exactly the term that applies to any of us, who seek the need to be in non dual form or in a state of constant bliss and love. It is the inability to accept your duality form, reboot into your form as real. And be detached from any of the infinity emotions or cognitive states/ non dual. I can only presume this is what causes us to march forward towards god at all costs. It’s the fact we only have one life and it must be NOW. I have a whole lifetime of existential lonliness to look forward to. Still it is perfect.

@Freakrik Suffering cannot be forever because suffering is a limited thing. Suffering is finite. Only Love and Bliss and Truth are forever. Only they are Infinite. Do not confuse God for a devil. All devils are finite. Only God is infinite. God is wholeness. There can only be one wholeness. The devil cannot be whole because the devil is divided. When a devil becomes whole, it becomes God.

@Aakash I know friend, thank you for reminding me and i guess i have to stop believing i am still healing from it all and embrace the fully healed state instead in which i currently am, like you say, but maybe not as present in awareness to fully realize it. Indeed, although i may have a completely different need or look for relationships of that magnitude nowadays, Inner-peace is all that matters. As of right now, in this moment, i feel, even if i never have another relationship like that(how it bloomed in the beginning) ever again, i will truly be okay. As of right now, i feel generally at peace, maybe not in divine bliss and pure unconditional love at all times, but that is okay, i accept this peace as my natural state. Makes me giggle, If i didn't open up the way i did about this situation and you didn't respond with those words you did in response, this realization possibly would of never occurred as clearly as i see it now. Gratitude ??

The biggest bliss states I have had in the past was always previous by a deep purge of vomiting. Soak in blissfulness, incredibly beautiful.

The blissful stage doesn't always come. The blissful stage is the end result of the ego surrendering. If the ego refuses to surrender don't expect a blissful stage. If there is psychological baggage you must deal with, that won't be blissful, that will be taxing and challenging as you work through it. Then, on future trips you'll be primed for a blissful stage. Taking psychedelics to experience bliss is not the right attitude. Rather, take them with the expectation of doing emotional work, whatever work is necessary for you to get closer to Truth. The more inner work you do, the more baggage you clear out, the more likely bliss will be in the future. Think of psychedelics like a therapy session. Challenging stuff should come up. This is how you grow.

It seems like I'm on the edge of stage 8. My last few sits I've had 30s - 10 minutes moments of effortlessness. One thing I am not sure about is whether stage 8 practice supposed to be absolutely completely effortless or with extremely little effort because what happens to me is that I can get to access concentration, then bliss and joy arise, then I use very very little effort but if I drop it literally completely, I tend to slip into very subtle dullness within a few minutes. What do you think? Have you had any cessations? Have you tried 5-MeO or DPT? BTW thanks for bringing awareness about this practice to this forum.

FMAB discusses topic of ego very deep, what do you think these series conclude, what is the cause of ego and what is the way to defeat it? Pride's death showed that ego started as a helpless newborn baby calling mama father's death showed that ego started as cocky playful thing that wanted to get out from its shell, eventually it wanted to become perfect being (not sure what that means existentially) and to know truth, to explore world, and to be god Greed's death showed that ego started as a lack of close ppl around it Envy - ego wanted to fit, to have good qualities of human beings Personally, i think pride's death is the best shot. This is why - Before birth baby is in bliss, in samadhi lol, without any problems and pain, but once born its in pain, cold, hot, light, loud noises, etc. So person caries this trauma throughout his life and then first years only adds up to that with parental and societal tiranny, plus physical pain that children often got, so this kind of pattern of helpless baby becomes its personality and runs the body, it then transforms into all sort of adult's egoic actions and ideas, pitifully few can overgrow that, but when you try to awaken and see ego's resistance, you can notice - ego shows a mask/persona of infantile, self-pity, confused, pretending 'innocent', wary, waiting for something, indecisive child who is like 'mummy can u give me awakening, i cant do that on my own, i am just innocent baby!'. And this is mask, a self-image that kind of a defensive mechanism, coz who would kill an innocent baby? Of course it stops u from awakening coz u become justifying and indulging and pity for this baby, instead of remorsely killing it. look how tricky it is! Pretending to be innocent, unconscious survival force that perpetuates since birth day! ALso, in NAruto shippuden. In the final battle, when they kill kaguya and zetsu, you can see the same picture - zetsu becomes a little baby crying to his mama kaguya, and saying to naruto - ur ninja world is just part of my imagination (or something like that), then naruto says even if it is so, my friends and ppl of my village fought through pain and died for each other, while all you do is crying to your mama. Then same in Evangelion, crying pitiful infantile, and same in The town without yourself. Then in Ghibli's animes - Grave of fireflies - boy who doesn't fully transform infantilism during war and this leads to death of him and his sister, and all Miyazaki's animes often has that theme but with often successful endings Maybe this means that ego is just a baby that must be killed. While Hollywood factory today often likes to show infantile and naive and child-loving films in which it is good to be smiling innocent baby who likes his mummy and wants to play and have fun and who doesn't do anything bad. Devils deception datebayo!

@Angelo John Gage if you’re only able to understand one side that makes you no better than them. Forget any ideas you might have of oneness and figure out who you are. Forgot operating on shoulds/should nots, let go of your perspective for a while and see if you can look through their eyes, understand their perspective and beliefs. What sort of shame do you have personally and how might this relate to the human condition, dig really deep. Find teachers that will help you figure out your own biases, not ones you simply agree with or meet most of your standards. One of my favorites for teaching our mirroring effect on reality is Teal Swan but if she’s too much keep looking! Finding your bliss or resolution is going to solve all any pain and suffering you may still have

It is you imagining yourself out of existence. The form being extracted from formlessness Pure Bliss.

@Mikael89 it isn't temporary - even one non-dual state will change you. I like you bro and i don't mean this with any disrespect but obviously you haven't had an awakening yet. When you do you will be on the floor crying and shouting "its infinite..its infinite..its Infinite" over and over and over. You will bliss out for days on end and your mind will open. Discovering you are God is really something. You shouldn't underestimate it.

Trivia to ponder from my favorite ebook I have one prebirth memory, but nothing close to this,,,,, Rebirthing is a necessary precondition to complete a non-violent shift to the Body-Mind. Without it you can never fully develop and balance the chakras, or create a unified field of all components in Awareness. Rebirthing goes beyond the normal field of recollection of early childhood memories normally addressed in psychoanalysis. Rebirthing goes further back to the pre-verbal memories, to memories of birth, pre-natal life in the womb. It goes all the way back to the original orgasmic moment of conception. A truly liberating rebirthing experience requires a basic understanding of the biology of the development of the body. We need to understand the discoveries of science in this area to have full recall and visualization. We need to understand the process of Mitosis, from the original union of sperm and egg to early childhood development. We also need to comprehend the significance of the seven stages of Mitosis, and its relation to our perceptive awareness, and the unified energy field. This essential knowledge is summarized in the following chart: Spirit Mind Soul Mind Body Mind: 7 Speak 7 Spirit 1 Fecundation Neocortex 6 Read 6 Soul 2 Polarization Limbic 5 Touch 5 Body 3 Organization Brain Stem 4 Hear 4 Willing 4 Circulation 3 Taste 3 Feeling 5 Metabolism Birth 2 Smell 2 Think 6 Breathing 1 Seeing 1 Sense 7 Moving MITOSIS There are seven stages of development: In the first two to three weeks the three basic layers are formed in the embryonic tissue: Entoderm: Inner Organs, Inner layer Mesoderm: Tendon and Muscles, Middle layer Exoderm or Ectoderm: Sense Organs, Outer layer One of the three embryonic layers tends to dominate in a person from this earliest stage. The dominant layer may later determine the preponderance of a person's temperament. An Entoderm dominant person will invite people for a good dinner, a Mesoderm person to jogging or mountain climbing, and an Exoderm person to listen to a concert. a. Contractions b. Birth c. First breath All three stages are painful and thus their recollection in the rebirthing process is frequently not pleasant. Still, remembering this pain frees you from it, and sets the stage for further development. The ejection from the womb is intense and frightening, particularly the initial stage of contractions, before movement down the birth canal begins. The contractions produce visions of hell. Compression down the birth canal to birth produces visions of the fall from the amniotic paradise. When you recall the first breath, you also recall the tearing open of the bronchial. Also, at the moment of birth the "foramen ovale" closes and the two chambers of the heart separate. The first painful breath and heart break is the threshold of rebirth. The rebirthing experience, like most all tribal initiations, necessarily involves the acceptance of intentional suffering. Fecundation. A single sperm, one of 500 million ejaculated, is accepted by the female egg. Polarization. The 23 male and 23 female chromosomes meet at the equator and blend to form the original cell. An average size human cell has about the same number of molecules as an average size human brain has cells. The fertilized human egg cell shown below has even more molecules. Organization. The cell divides according to the law of the octave, 1 - 2 - 4 - 8 - 16 - 32 - 64 - 128 ....., up to about 54 divisions, then the organism is complete. By about four months all organs have been formed and simple growth begins. Actual photographs are shown below of the human embryo at the 2, 4 and 8 cell stages. In the first two to three weeks the three basic layers are formed in the embryonic tissue: Entoderm: Inner Organs, Inner layer Mesoderm: Tendon and Muscles, Middle layer Exoderm or Ectoderm: Sense Organs, Outer layer One of the three embryonic layers tends to dominate in a person from this earliest stage. The dominant layer may later determine the preponderance of a person's temperament. An Entoderm dominant person will invite people for a good dinner, a Mesoderm person to jogging or mountain climbing, and an Exoderm person to listen to a concert. Circulation. At five to six weeks, when the embryo is no more than three fifths of an inch long, the heart begins to beat. The heart beats continuously, uninterrupted, until we die. Here an embryo is shown at about five and one half weeks. The big protrusion between the flipper and the head is the heart. Metabolism. At about eight weeks, when the embryo is one inch long, weighing two and one half grams, metabolism starts in the embryo through the umbilical cord connection with the mother's metabolism. The embryo floats weightlessly in warm amniotic fluid, nourished from the outside, in a state of bliss. Recollection of this earliest time in your life is quite pleasant, however, for most the recollection of the birth process which follows is not. Here is a picture of a fetus at about eight weeks. Birth. After nine months of blissful growth, the organism is ready for birth which comes in three stages: Movement. Once out the baby starts coordinating the senses by movements. By about the third month after birth the senses are acclimated to the new external environment. For rebirthing to succeed the fear of pain must be overcome. The same is true of life itself. Otherwise fear will prevent you from starting the backward journey within. In this way many people are trapped by fear into living their whole life in one little corner of their brain. from- http://www.chanceandchoice.com/course-overview/brain-and-mind/