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cant do that. isnt that neti neti what youre describing? and what questions am i supposed to be asking? if i ask who am i, i get an answer -"no idea"

I've also used weed to make my meditation sessions more present to the moment and differienciate what I am and what not, try to focus on that. Its called neti-neti meditation.

Hey pluto, I did some self-inquiry from the neti neti method and I just ended up depressed. I looked for everything I could be, but just ended up finding nothing and then Leo said that nothingness is enlightenment and that I am nothingness. That just got me bummed out because isn't enlightenment life-changing? Maybe I didn't do the technique right but this was the video:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie For the last couple of meditation sessions I tried taking the concept of a philosophical zombie and then substract it from myself. Such a human could have thoughts and emotions or he couldnt function in the world, the only thing lacking is the awareness experiencing all of it. I try to get a real sense of it. I guess this is simmilar to Neti-Neti, maybe its helpful for someone.

An analogy. So you have undertaken the initial stages of the self investigation process. And the initial stages of self investigation involve what's called a 'neti neti' process: - I'm not this. - I'm not my thoughts. - I'm not my sensations. - I'm not my feelings. - I'm not my body. - I'm not my mind. The 'neti neti' process is only the first stage of the path of self inquiry. It only tells us what we are not. It is necessary to see what we are. It is not enough to simply see that the rope is not a snake. We have to see the rope. If our investigation only takes us as far as 'it is not a snake' then there is still the possibility that later on we may mistake it for a stick or a shadow. So we have to go further than just seeing 'it is not a snake'. We have to see it is a rope. We have to go further than seeing simply what I am not. We have to see what we are. In other words: 'what we are has to see what it is'. That I that I am has to know itself clearly. You are not a body or a mind. You have to see that you are pure awareness. You are inherently peaceful. In other words: 'you cannot be disturbed'. How do see clearly what we essentially are? In the exactly the same way that we see clearly what anything essentially is. If you want to know what something is, you give it your attention. If you want to know about Mathematics, you give your attention to Mathematics. If you want to know about music you direct your attention towards music. Whatever you want to deeply investigate, you simply give that thing your attention. And as a result of shining the light of your attention on that object, what it is gradually or suddenly becomes clear. If you want to know what you essentially are you have to give yourself your attention. That is the essence of self-inquiry or prayer.

So i been reading Erich Neumann Origins and history of consciousness cause I heard it's a good way to enter Jungs work. I red a few of his works here and there in the past but now i wanna get seriously in it and i want to ask, especially Leo Gura, Do you think he was enlightened ? Seems to me that his work is about how to get enlightened but in the most geeky, scientifically way, but in the end, he comes across like a mystic. What do you guys think about it. And Leo, if you agree do you think there is some value in his work and maybe make a video about him/his works. ? By the way, Leo, change my life. That fucking neti neti, man. I died two years ago. I saw the tail of the ox. Now i have no way of going back into ignorance, i have to see it all, have to know what is on the end of this rabbit hole.

It's not an either/or understanding, but a both/and. Meaning there is only me, awareness, so no delineated line really exists between, me and the objects that appear within me. However, there is a gap or space that can figuratively be created to "see" (neti-neti) thought and other objects as not Self, until Self-knowledge is firm. In this regard there is a feeling that "I", pure awareness, just AM and Im aware OF all objects and they are false/illusions. This is helpful for discriminating the real from unreal. There is a shift in perspective from being identified with/as the I-thought/ego (thinking it is me), to be-ing awareness, that's just "associated" with the apparent person. This seemed a bit long winded, sorry.

The two I like the best are Ramana Maharshi's "who am I" self inquiry and neti-neti (not this, not that). Hopefully you know what I referring to? If not, I will explain. If they are effective is up to fate I guess.

Some things have to be clear to you - you are not your thoughts, you can never be the monkey mind. This is classic identification with thinking!! I prescribe you the Eckhart Tolle pill. If you can be aware of it, it's not you. Neti neti. That simple.

I'm quoting my own post to clarify what I mean, hopefully, lol Everything is illusion/dreaming, except what you really are, awareness/presence. To recognize what you are, you need to negate (neti-neti) or see through, what you've thought was real (phenomena), then you realize you've always been it, awareness. But, the dreaming/illusion/phenomena, although seen through, "persists", meaning, thoughts/feelings/sensations/sucky situations/illness, etc ....continue to be experienced (by no-one...lol). In that sense, there is no getting out of the dream/illusion, although you know it's not real. Peace.

Hey everyone, I just wanted to share some images I have created after I had quite an intense experience last night after doing Leos Neti Neti Enlightenment Guided Inquiry. After I watched Leos video on The Truth about Spiritual Enlightenment multiple times, I thought I had gained a logical grasp of it. Neti Neti has been the only way I have been able to accept what I actually am in reality as truth and experience a glimpse of it myself. My favourite thing about it is that your mind begins to open up while doing the inquiry until it is open enough to question the very nature of all your beliefs systems. It honestly feels like your mind is being warped and every belief system you once held is just recognised as a story and thought. The kind of thoughts that ran through "my" mind when doing this inquiry were - "Could you have actually been born if there wasn't a thought confirming this belief?" & "How could I possibly die if my physical body never existed in the first place?". I'd be happy for you to let me know if you think I'm on the right track after reading the text on the images I posted. I decided to create them because unfortunately even though I am aware of this truth, it is very easy to get sucked back into the mundane world. Thanks

Godammit... I was literally mulling over making a post with this exact title, not even an hour or two ago (although you have put it better than I would have) ... Was just now googling this phrase to get my thoughts together and first thing on google is this post, made 54 minutes ago. Seriously, what the hell? Oh well, either way it got me interested in finally starting neti neti so mission accomplished, I guess. Geez, and I thought I was going to be so original and ask "what" am i, instead of "who" am i? I'm telling you this is crazy.... I'm in a freaking dream....

I have almost been there, countless people have experienced it, it's more probable that it is real. But of course how it is experienced is far different from the concept of it. It can only be truly understood after experiencing it. But the ''i'' is not needed, existence can exist without the notion of an ''i'', it's just superficial language game. From my experiences, what absolute nothingness means is that the true nature of yourself is impersonal nothingness or emptiness, so much that you actually do not exist, you drown in the emptiness until you disappear then you become everything that is, at the end you stop identifying yourself as everything. Now only what IS is, alone. You can trigger this by being the observer yes, you can also trigger it with other methods, like introspection, self-inquiry, neti-neti method, etc.

You've totally missed the point of self inquiry. The whole point of self inquiry is to keep you looking/observing until you break free from delusion. What you call 'me', 'reality' are layers of stories glued together. They can only sustain if they are unexamined/unobserved. The moment you look, shit start disappearing like empty air. Doesn't that ring some bell? maybe you and your whole life stories and constructs are just a house of cards. What is the purpose of Self-inquiry? Its to deconstruct yourself, your beliefs about being a human/alien/nothingness and your world. Observation is the only direct spiritual practice and self inquiry is just a technique to keep you oriented and focused. There are other techniques like spiritual autolysis, mindfulness with labeling, Guided Neti Neti, staying with the I AM etc which basically facilitates the same observation with slightly different spin. Until?? Until all that can be deconstructed is deconstructed. And what is left? That which is Real. The unreal never existed and the real can't be destroyed.

@Applejuice You seem overexcited. First of all, stop chasing states. Awakening is not a state or any kind of form including the feeling of bliss (however, it could be accompanied by it). Based on what you are saying I would say you are on the first stage. Neti Neti process is essential starting point and maybe you already learned what you are not from it. However, this is not even a halfway. Now you need to become conscious who you are! And noone can tell you how long may it take. You will need lots of self inquiry and presence as awareness. You need to become conscious of your unlimited nature. You will need to empty your mind. You are trying to achieve smth while meditating instead of being still. Work on that...

Okay so I've been meditating for a couple years but I didn't really know what I was doing until a couple weeks ago. And WOWWWW. Seriously how do most people not know about this? My first glimpse of enlightenment was about a month ago and I was doing neti neti whilst high on weed and man that was some crazy shit. It felt really alien. I suddenly realised that there is no experiencer and all there is and ever was is experience. And yeah this felt really really alien. I felt like I just discovered orgasms for the first time hahaha. And now when I meditate I gradually gain more minfulness and thoughts start to fade into noise and everything becomes 'noise' ( neutral and there isn't anything that is more significant than any other thing ) and once that happens I feel like a key has just been taken out of the lock. And I'm not attached to my thoughts, I'm not convinced that I am my thoughts, or my sight or my senstations anymore and not in that problem solving mode. It's fucking beautiful and so alien at the same time. I often feel a wave of energy run through me as this happens like a vibration. that just coarses through me and I'm suddenly non attached to anything. Then this fades and I'm attached to thoughts again. And then I notice I'm talking to myself in my head about how enlightened I am lmao. And then I realise this is ego. And I'm back in square one. And I cannot go more than 20 minutes without an uncontrollable urge to move and open my eyes. Also when I opened my eyes after my most recent meditation everything was as if I have never seen it before, like I had new eyes or I was just born. and it gradually fades into my regular everyday state. I also experience mild closed eye visuals whilst this is happening and a ringing in my ears. But for the most part it feels like I've fallen out of my thoughts. Anyone else experience anythign similar? Was that falling out of thoughts the void? And if so how can I make it last and not attach myself to the ego? EDIT: Also I'm noticing how because I'm not in that state anymore I cannot really grasp what that's like. Is this falling out of thoughts thing of any significance? Am I going crazy? Is this just the ego playing tricks and deluding itself into believing it's enlightened? EDIT: I also feel weird presences or like someone is watching me whilst meditating but that fades too as i focus on my breath. I also see different colours as this state comes on and it looks a lot like the northern lights. EDIT: I know this is the third edit lmao but I'm also noticing how whenever this state comes on it's like my mind doesnt want me to see it. it diverts my attention. This is some freaky shit maaaan And I get it now how when leo said its like a scratch on the top of your head turns into finding a zip then slowly unzipping yourself from yourself. EDIT: I don't know if this is psychosis coming on or if it was enlightenment. It feels pretty good. EDIT: My hands feel like just hands and not like i own them ownership is a delusion. What the fuck is happening? Am I delusional and just imagining I'm enlightened? if anyone knows then pls tell me what is happening. Should I ask a psychiatrist if I'm sane? EDIT: So my regular state where im attached to thoughts is literally insane because everything is fundamentally neutral and just noise and believing that it's something more is craziness. And that means everyone else is insane too. But I know what sane is now. what the fuck EDIT: How do I know this is not my mind playing tricks on me making me believe I've experienced enlightenment? When really I'm just imagining it EDIT: I feel pretty regular now and I cannot really understand it unless im in that state. I cannot unsee this though :DD i feel exactly the same as before I meditated today but really really aware EDIT: I have no idea what the fuck i was talking about anymore lmao wtf EDIT: Now I see that attachments are like lenses on the truth ( pure conciousness or neutrality as i said ) But I'm not in that state anymore I just get it EDIT: Okay so it's the next day and I feel basically the same as before. I think that I try to rationalise what is happening and I begin to believe that my rationalisations are enlightenment. I don't look at it as crazy anymore. more like really sane.

Ok, that God that you explained doesn't exist. But the true God exist. The problem is that the true God cannot be conceptualized. So anything we say won't be IT. Neti, neti....

@Dan Arnautu Definitely Neti Neti inquiry...

Something happened at work yesterday, and I have gotten extreme feeling of envy and jealousy. So much that I couldn't sleep even after meditation. I'm trying neti neti techniques, as well as breathing into it. I'm learning a lot about how much more work the ego needs. Now, all the physical emotions are concentrated in my chest. I cannot breath into it anymore because of the amount of pressure. Do you know a way for me to release the tension? It's like a huge blockage of chakara. Thank you

@Maycol That requires a very deep enlightenment. Yes, Neti Neti, or self-inquiry, or yoga, or meditation, or 5-MeO-DMT. 5-MeO-DMT is the most direct and surest way. You will experience pure, total nonduality the likes of which cannot be imagined or spoken of. Experiencing total nonduality is not easy. It usually takes enormous work. It took me about 4 years of hard work every day, and the only reason I succeeded was thanks to 5-MeO. Most people here pursuing enlightenment will never realize total nonduality in their lives. It's too deep. But with 5-MeO it becomes very doable. LSD is the next best thing, since 5-MeO is hard to find. But LSD will still not take you deep enough. But it will still give you a good glimpse and knock your socks off if you use it properly.

Dear @Leo Gura, How to realize the duality is oneness without any doubt, instead of just an intellectual understanding? Is it still using the Neti Neti process? I've read several books on the purchased book lists, I feel that the author might have an intellectual understanding, but I don't sense that he truly realize it. It's like reading a very well researched paper with a lot of good citations, but the writer doesn't seem to have a deep realization of what the points he keep repeating throughout his books. I've been rewatching your video on "Reality is a strange loop" many many times. Sometimes there is a crack, but other times there are frustration not not getting it viscerally. Asking for your help sincerely. Thank you.

walking in nature + neti neti meditation + shamanic breathing -> no self

Yup! Folk like you and I don’t see the pursuit of no-self as the right way to self actualize. Practice no-self purely for the sake of skepticism. In that much, it is very worth it. To get the understanding that everything you know is illusory and perhaps outright a mistake to believe! That is what really matters with neti-neti. Look to find your actualize self anyway that you feel works best. Personally I did a TON of growth and even had some .... interesting .... to say the least .... consciousness experiences — by only practicing Active Mindfulness as a dedicated practice. I learned the whole time, learning from YouTube and personal exploration. But I never got into any serious meditation at all. All of my consciousness work has been practicing awareness - just whenever I felt to. During my activities throughout the day. A few seconds here, a random successful few minutes there... now I can be aware a lot more often and in a lot more depth... it’s great so much can be gained from awareness practice of any kind! Awareness alone is all you need practice it in the way that fits your personality

@ConsolePeasant Hiding Thought is a perception filter one uses to perceive two, creating the illusion of duality (if believed to be reality); self / other, happy / sad - things which seem to exist because they are not their opposite. But what is relative is not absolute, it’s illusionary - happiness “is” is contingent on sadness “isn’t” - they are thoughts and emotions. The belief in the illusion as real conceals the truth. This is ego. A rollercoster of emotional bs. Seeking Without thinking (filtering), one is aware of the illusion, and therefore is aware one is not the illusion (neti neti), and is liberated from illusionary doubt and fear. A state of Oneness, or Wholeness of the awareness. Some stop here, because, well, it’s pretty nice. No more highs and lows, no ‘tide’ of life dictating / triggering emotions. It’s a warm & cozy state. Relief. Peace. Some go on though. Found Being, is Self awareness of what one is. Because thinking and awareness take place within Being, thinking and awareness can not encompass, and therefore can not communicate, Being. (The Cosmic Joke) As I type, and you read, to you, I am illusion, and you are thinking. A total Being communication breakdown! lol. Being is absolute, blissful, the default state, the actual reality, extraordinary. Being is not an experience of Oneness, nor an experience of the realization of illusion, nor the experience of wholeness - it is the realization of what you are, for realz. Being is transcendent, or encompassing of, awareness, and thinking. Being, there is no illusion, only Self, eternal & infinite. You have hidden in forgetting that you hid. It’s brilliant. The illusion is more than the thinking can grasp. Doubly brilliant. The Being encompasses the awareness. Trips to the brilliance. Enjoy it.

Okay, so yesterday at 2 am I was smoking a joint and watching Leo's video " Life is a dream " and at first I was like this guy is crazy how can life be a dream, but then I thought about it and let it sink in and yeah the substance of a dream and substance of this reality is the same. You dont know youre in a dream when youre dreaming, it could be the same here. Then you started saying there is noone behind the scenes. That just resonated with me for some reason. And you kept repeating it and it was like woah there was something there so I sat down and did neti neti. It was very quick and simple. Normally neti neti is very difficult and grindy, this time it was extremely easy and fluid. Like oil seperated from the water. And my ego was very noticable. Like I was looking in onto everything from the outside except there is noone looking. And suddenly it hit me. That sense of someone behind the scenes percieving everything is part of the perception. There is nothing else but perception. In other words, there is no thinker of thoughts and no see'er of sounds and feeler of emotion and smeller of smells. And there is no watcher of everything that controls my body. My body is just functioning and there are just senses and emotions and thoughts. That's all there is and ever was and ever will be. It was so apparent to me. I felt like I was going crazy. Like woah, er this is not normal. I was in this state for about 5 minutes and then I was like no no no I dont want to know this I want to be how i was. I knew that if I become enlightened I will die. Because there will be no watcher and controller of everything. Leo was right that you will literally kill yourself. Lol I can't believe that this happened. I'm not in this state now anymore so I know I'm not enlightened. But was I just really really high or am I developing schizophrenia ( I have family history of schizophrenia ). Or was this actually a peak into enlightenment.