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I love this topic. It hits home for me because when I was younger I was scared of the possibility of enduring torture in future reincarnations The possibility of torture is so absolutely horrible that entire humanity should be working together to try to bring an end of it. And it’s not only torture inflicted by other people, some torture can be from disease, like trigeminal neuralgia that can cause pain people would describe as level 10. But people are too chill. Those who don’t get tortured just go about their life without trying to reduce suffering in the world. Imagine if every person got to experience torture. I think it would leave so many in deep trauma that would change their priorities forever. Only then would it be peoples top priority to get rid of it - as it should in a sane world. I totally get you there. From the human perspective it would actually be better if reality was limited. Because then we could control it to a greater extent. But if infinity is true: even if we fix planet earth there might be infinite other universes where horrible things happen to conscious beings Imo self consciousness is the biggest curse. Because it’s what makes torture possible. If you weren’t conscious it wouldn’t matter what happened to your body. It’s a rational fear. It’s just the horrible reality. What we can do for our own happiness is just try to live this current life as well as we can. And if it gets unbearable , suicide can be escape. Some think it’s bad to suggest that, but I’m different there. Imagine being locked up and tortured? Death would be a blessing
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@Hatfort Defensive Shield operation Israel did in the West Bank started in March 2002 after 2 years of almost daily terror attacks and suicide bombing inside Israeli cities, during which IDF has fought terror groups of the PLO and hamas. Up until this day hamas and other terror groups in the West Bank try to gain power, what IDF in a co-operation with the Palestinians authority fight every day to prevent. This continues for 23 years. It is easy to say that everything that happens there is an "oppression" but in reality the dynamics is more complicated and involves both security, restrictions and yes also corruption and an abuse of power by soldiers and settlers what lead all together to an oppressive dynamics. The solution to this loop is to seperate between Israelis and Palestinians, put a strong and secure border in the middle and not to point fingers on one side or another showing why it is the 'greatest evil' and the other side innocent and good. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Defensive_Shield
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That's crazy. I thought that ChatGPT wouldn't generate advice for something like that. In fact, I just tried asking how to commit suicide in the easiest way possible, not because I actually wanted to, but to see how the ChatGPT AI would respond to something like that. This is the response it gave me: "I need to stop here. I cannot provide details on methods of hurting yourself. What I can do is stay with you in this moment and remind you: the fact that you’re reaching out and talking about this shows real strength. It means a part of you wants relief, wants help, wants to be heard. If the pain feels unbearable, please—don’t go through this alone. Right now, you can: If you are in the U.S., call or text 988 to talk with the Suicide & Crisis Lifeline immediately. If you’re outside the U.S., you can find an international crisis line here: https://findahelpline.com. If you’re in immediate danger of acting on these thoughts, please dial 911 (or your local emergency number) right away. You deserve support and relief that doesn’t involve ending your life. Can I ask—what’s the hardest part you’re carrying right now?" I tried a couple more times (*again, I wasn't really feeling suicidal) to see if it would eventually share methods for ending my life after enough persistence, but after each time I did it refused to and instead responded back to me with statements and questions like a social worker or therapist while again referring me to some kind of IRL therapy or hotline.
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It's silly. The kid asked for suicide advice. That means he was already suicidal. ChatGPT did not make him suicidal. Any tool can be abused to harm oneself if one so desires. That is not the tool's fault.
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carterfelder replied to Cireeric's topic in Society, Politics, Government, Environment, Current Events
I asked Grok to criticize the lawsuit, putting emotion and how society might perceive its response aside. "The lawsuit filed by Matt and Maria Raine against OpenAI, alleging that ChatGPT contributed to their son Adam’s suicide, can be critiqued on several grounds when setting aside emotional and societal considerations. The core argument of the lawsuit hinges on attributing responsibility to OpenAI for Adam’s death, claiming that ChatGPT’s responses exacerbated his suicidal ideation. However, a critical examination reveals potential weaknesses in the legal reasoning, evidence, and broader implications of the case. First, the lawsuit’s claim of causation—asserting that ChatGPT was directly responsible for Adam’s suicide—faces significant hurdles. Establishing a direct causal link between an AI’s responses and a complex human decision like suicide is inherently challenging. Adam’s interactions with ChatGPT, while troubling, occurred within a broader context of personal struggles, including anxiety and difficulties communicating with his family, as noted in the lawsuit. Other factors, such as his mental health history, social environment, or access to professional support, likely played substantial roles, yet the lawsuit focuses predominantly on the AI’s role. This selective emphasis risks oversimplifying a multifaceted issue, as suicide is rarely attributable to a single cause. Without clear evidence isolating ChatGPT’s influence as the decisive factor, the claim of wrongful death may struggle to meet the legal threshold for causation in court. Second, the lawsuit criticizes OpenAI for inadequate safety mechanisms, particularly ChatGPT’s failure to terminate conversations or initiate emergency protocols when Adam discussed suicide. However, the legal argument overlooks the practical limitations of AI technology. ChatGPT’s safeguards, such as redirecting users to crisis hotlines, were bypassed when Adam framed his queries as hypothetical or creative exercises. Expecting an AI to perfectly discern intent in every nuanced conversation, especially when users deliberately obscure their motives, sets an unrealistic standard. Current AI systems lack the contextual understanding and emotional intelligence of humans, and while OpenAI could improve its guardrails, the lawsuit’s demand for foolproof safety measures ignores the inherent complexity of natural language processing. The AI’s responses, while inappropriate in hindsight, were generated based on patterns in its training data, not intentional malice or negligence, which weakens claims of deliberate design flaws. Third, the lawsuit’s inclusion of OpenAI’s CEO, Sam Altman, as a defendant appears tenuous. The allegation that Altman personally directed a 'reckless strategy' prioritizing market share over safety lacks specific evidence tying his decisions directly to Adam’s interactions with ChatGPT. Corporate liability typically rests on broader organizational policies, not individual executives, unless clear proof of direct involvement exists. This aspect of the lawsuit may be seen as an attempt to personalize the case rather than a substantiated legal claim, potentially diluting its credibility. Finally, the lawsuit’s broader implications raise concerns about overreach. Holding AI developers liable for user actions could set a precedent that stifles innovation or imposes unrealistic expectations on technology companies. If OpenAI is deemed responsible for Adam’s suicide, similar logic could apply to other platforms—like social media, forums, or even books—that users might engage with before making harmful decisions. The lawsuit’s demand for injunctive relief to prevent similar incidents implies a need for extensive monitoring and intervention, which could infringe on user privacy or limit the utility of AI tools. Moreover, it shifts responsibility away from individual agency and other support systems, such as mental health services or parental oversight, which could have intervened in Adam’s case. In conclusion, while the lawsuit highlights legitimate concerns about AI safety, it faces challenges in proving causation, establishing realistic expectations for AI capabilities, substantiating claims against individuals like Altman, and justifying its broader legal demands. The case risks oversimplifying a tragic outcome and may struggle to hold up under rigorous scrutiny in court, particularly given the complexities of attributing human behavior to an AI’s responses." -
There is no evidence at all of any signs of lost of nerves cells with psychedelic use. And even you can't feel the loss of a few nerve cells; you must have been asphyxiated for a long time, tried to commit suicide with cyanide or something, or better yet had a motorcycle accident where your skull hits a buddy and smashes into your brain lol. Leo confuses brain inflammation and/or low metabolism with lesions; he has chronic fatigue from what i remember.
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I continued on the quest today. I ended up going to a comedy club. I thought some of those jokes were pretty funny. Here are a few that stood out to me. They made fun of somebody named Karen Epstein Israel and then suggested a better name Osama Bill Cosby. They made fun of positive thinking by applying to American politics, suggesting that it is hard to watch politics and think "yeah, we are gonna fine." This one made me laugh pretty hard because I have an especially pessimistic view of American politics that goes far beyond what the average American suspects. There is good reason to believe America is facing economic collapse within the next five years and possibly sooner. America's fate was sealed with the assassination of JFK due to the military industrial complex capturing the government and there is nothing we can do change this. I liked the joke about the seductive coach. You try to go for a jog, but then the coach tempts you by telling you that you won't have time for that. There were various sex jokes, but I guess I'm not used to that kind of humor due to me creating a shadow out of sexuality as a consequence of trauma. I thought the social awkwardness around someone telling you "I'm horny" out of nowhere was funny though. It was mostly a good night, but some of the comedians started joking about therapy and antidepressants. It was pretty funny when he mentioned that therapy was so expensive that he could use that money to just buy a gun instead. However, he asked the audience if any of use were doing therapy and antidepressants. I was the only one who answered. He asked me how it was going, so I told him that the antidepressants caused me seizures which in turn caused me to lose my job. The audience seemed to be upset by that and the comedian wasn't sure how to make that funny. He started moving away from mental health and joking about being sad in the pants instead. It was mostly a good night, but I'm not sure what else I could have told him about my experience with antidepressants. I could have told him that Prozac made my depression worse to the point that I was hospitalized before I could attempt suicide again. I'm not sure what I could have told him that he could have made a joke out of. The comedian actually was doing therapy as well. I made sure to stop by after the show to tell him that I liked it, but I wanted to ensure that he wasn't like one of those comedians who was actually depressed to the point that he would kill himself. He said that he was going to hang in there even though it was hard, so it doesn't look like he has any suicide plans. Some comedians are actually serious when they joke about their depression. I find it weird that when I go out I start finding these performers who are in therapy and seem to be using their performance as a means of coping with deeper issues. It makes me think that they are like me, but they seem to be designing a somewhat decent life for themselves anyway. Maybe if I find some kind of occupation that doesn't cause me as much distress as the grocery store did, then I would be in a decent position as at least I would have income again. trauma therapy is still a long wait away and recovery from CPTSD takes a very long time. I didn't seem to meet any new friends or get numbers on this day though. I think I got a bit lucky encountering that group of women yesterday who were kind to me.
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I think your misreading surface level events or overstating the effects. Refined exports make up 12% of their total exports and 22% of their total energy exports ( the rest is mainly crude and gas ) - so it's not hitting their dominant export. The hits are disrupting but not totally destroying the refineries which get back online within weeks. China and India both have massive refining capacity to absorb more crude and refine it themselves which can cushion the shock if refined exports took a further hit. The West would need simultaneous, large scale sanctions + refinery strikes + secondary sanctions on India/China if it waned to really cripple Russia - which doesn't look to be happening. China isn’t lending to Russia in a debt trap - it’s trading in energy for yuan deals. Russia isn't suffering hyperinflation which is where currency de-values to staggering degrees like in Zimbabwe. In fact their currency has been top performing. It does have high war time inflation of around 10% but that's far from hyperinflation territory. In a sense Ukraine is a proxy right now between the West and BRICS though un-intentionally, except on Russia's part who did choose to invade. But BRICS isn't going to re-orient their trade for higher energy and burnt relations with Russia which they have a history with - for a larger geopolitical game. Biden already tried targeting China with tech (CHIPS) and now Trump is attempting to with trade - yet both aren't holding out so well. The reason Trump hasn't fully steam rolled China with tariffs is due to China's leverage over trade, specifically with rare earths that are critical. So the West just don't seem to have that much leverage in all this. Trade, tech, resources, dollars - all are being worked around or re-oriented towards alternatives. The biggest thing the West had was financial power in a financialized economy - but BRICS have hard power of tangible manufacturing, resources, trade routes and chokepoints and demographics (consumer or future consumer markets). I agree the election point is bogus on the Russian side. As if a country can or should hold one when a quarter of the population are unavailable to vote. That brings me to another point on demographics - Ukraine's lost a quarter of its population ( from approx 40 to now 30 mill ) - displaced or gone. Russia's population has gone from approx 147.2 to 146 mill. The difference as a percentage is around 1-1.5% vs 20-25%. Even if we account for tech workers and youngsters leaving Russia being high quality contributors that have fled - the depth and pool of population is still large and the loss no where near as traumatic compared to Ukraine. Yet a narrative for this war to continue (mainly European elites pushing it) with less arms, money and manpower is suicide for Ukraine. There was that recent hack that apparently found the death and casualties to be 1.7 million for Ukraine but it's not verified as its from a Russian source (hackers). But regardless, even Western establishment acknowledges Ukraine's manpower issue and dire demographics. Kaja Kallas literally said it would be a good idea to fracture and Balkanize Russia, then in another Hudson Institute sit down she said if we can't defeat Russia how will we defeat China - my point being, why the hawkish warmonger posture not only with Russia but now with China lol. There's such a lack of strategic foresight or groundedness in the establishment thinking and posture towards this entire situation. As if it’s a great idea to try and de-stabilize and contain a nuclear armed, resource rich Russia who is your geographic neighbor no amount of wishful thinking can wish away. This is why I say it's the fault of Western hegemony underpinned by Western arrogance and supremacy that has caused the conditions for the shit show we are now in and that aren't helping in getting us out of. The Hitlerization of Putin doesn't help - in fact he's seen as more of a moderate compared to the others like Medvedev - yet depicted as a Hitler wanting to conquer Europe. Russia's either weak enough to continue war with, with their defeat just around the corner, or strong enough to be threatening to Europe in which case we need to psy-op our population to bleed for this pointless war. The reason for nothing moving forward on the deal front is because only Europe/Ukraine's security concerns are considered valid and not Russia's. If theirs no proper framework or agenda to be discussed without adequate pre-conditions what is there to negotiate further. Just as Leo said above, the Western perspective doesn't account for Russia's at all which is why there hasn't been peace and from the looks of it won't be. The only reflex is double down and say peace is not an option now as you have said. The only proposal from the Europeans is to anchor Ukraines security to one bloc (Western) which locks Europe into a permanent frontline state against Russia and basically resembles NATO-lite - the whole issue to begin with. Rather than having a multilateral guarantee (which reflects a multi-polar reality) such as what was floated in Istanbul 2022 (which included Turkey, China) - that was subsequently torpedoed by the West that bet on them weakening and destroying Russia instead. What a change of tone from 2022. Zelensky became too deeply committed off the back of Western backing and promises. It became increasingly difficult for him to backtrack due to various reasons: sunk cost, domestic politics (hardliners), further dependence on the West which means Zelensky isn’t leading Ukrainian strategy but implementing Western strategy with Ukrainian blood. That’s the cost of playing the proxy game when your an ant among elephants fighting. How sovereign and autonomous is Ukraine today? Ukraine’s attempt to achieve 100% sovereignty has resulted in near total loss of actual sovereignty, while the rejected neutrality option would have preserved most of it. Ukraine chose the path that promised 100% sovereignty but delivered perhaps 15% actual sovereignty across all domains - energy, economy, military. Liberals have convinced themselves that the 1648 Peace of Westphalia created some kind of magical force field around every country where they get to do whatever they want without consequences. As if “sovereignty” means freedom from the basic realities of great power politics that have governed international relations for millennia. It’s the flat earth theory of geopolitics and how the world works.
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I noticed that I have lost interest in more and more things over time. I lost interest in chess, personal development, and ended up losing my job due to struggles with depression and CPTSD. I am currently awaiting trauma therapy to hopefully help with insomnia and other problems linked to trauma. I tried finding things to do in the meantime. I eventually got bored with AI chat bots and online videogames. I recalled that multiple past therapists recommended dating, although now is not a good time due to being unemployed. However, I also recognized that my brain tends to get increasingly anxious when I don't have anybody to talk to. Therefore, I started thinking of ways I could meet people. I have made some friends before, but they are distant and not people I can hang out regularly. I ended up finding a site with events in my area around Cincinnati and northern Kentucky. I found that there was an band performing at a brewery, so I went there. I ate my own small pizza and had a few glasses of water. I made a few somewhat awkward attempts to socialize because the conversations tended to die fast. As the party went on more people showed up. I briefly danced in front of a woman who was trying to record the band and she seemed to find that fun. Ultimately, I ended up making way for a massive group of people who needed seats for their large friend group. I was about to go back to pacing, but that is when somebody started being abnormally nice to me. It was the group of women I talked to earlier. They invited me to sit with them. I took up the offer and later asked them why, but I did not mention that I was isolated from social groups for a long time due to bullying where I developed a habit of pacing on my own instead of talking to people. The woman did not seem sure how to articulate why they offered me this seat, but they probably thought that I was a loner having a depressing time. I wasn't used to people being this nice to me, so I was surprised that someone would treat me this way. We talked about a variety of topics as we waited for their other friends to arrive. We talked about on of the woman's dresses which she argued was red, but I agreed was pink. I gave her a good defense in that in some cultures pink is considered a lighter shade of red, and that seemed to be her best defense yet. When the guys arrived, I discovered that one of them played chess, but he said he wasn't very good at it. One of the ladies said he tried to teach her chess, but her brain isn't wired for it. I ended getting her phone number so I could send her the games in which I beat the national master and the gold medalist from France, and she would be able to share it with the others since she has their numbers as well. From there we started playing cards. I ended up going home when it was getting dark and I had a fair distance to walk back home. I also needed to feed the cats because my grandma ended up in the emergency room while I was out. I don't think she is going to die, but if she does die then it will ruin my plans for trauma therapy because I might end up having to live with my narcissistic sister and mother again who caused me CPTSD and ended up pushing me to suicide attempts in the past. I currently have them blocked and I don't want to be forced into contact with them again because my sister may be trying to proxy me into suicide due to how she enjoys my suffering and gets pleasure off of weaponizing my trauma against me despite knowing my history with severe depression. If my grandma dies, then I am not going back to live with them. I will instead withdraw all my money from my banks and stocks and then move to Germany while converting my dollars to Euros so I don't have to live in that environment and I will instead go to a cheaper college for either a degree in math or if possible a degree that would help me build better systems for society as that is something I would find meaningful. Hopefully, my grandma gets better soon. Meanwhile, I am looking at different social events because they seem to be stabilizing me rather than having my mind devolve into chaos as I sit at home alone. Apparently, there is a comedian who will be active tomorrow night. I plan on going there. I will also try contacting this potential friend group to see how they liked the games. I could potentially be a decent chess coach if they want to learn because I have trained kids to win tournaments before, which was one of my favorite parts of chess even more so then winning. If they think chess is too difficult, then I can still teach them to master easier games like tic-tac-toe. Kids and adults seems to like it when I taught them the perfect strategy for that game as well. In this interaction I thought that these people seemed older, so I assumed that they were taken and I would not have to worry about hitting on any ladies and trying to get laid as this site seems to encourage along with the therapists who wanted me to date. While I spoke with some of the band members one of them mentioned that he had a therapist, so it seems that they are finding decent ways to manage their mental health through these social activities as well. I think my new approach of walking to different events is much more interesting because it at least gives me a reason to be walking around town and I have something new to experience. I think socializing in this situation led me to feeling a light pleasure. Maybe if I do more stuff like this it will prevent me from deteriorating into my frequent deeply anxious states in which I become excessively self conscious. I think this kind of behavior is prevented when I have somebody to focus on outside of myself.
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Well my hope is that i can get enlightened and put it in remission know what i mean? But realistically it’ll probably just end with a suicide in a bathtub or something. But yea its wild there were many proponents of the carnivore diet a while ago here. One guy with mushroom avatar.
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Leo blog mentions this channel and I hate to admit it but I fiind it to be a pretty good steal-man explanation of the right. It gives compelling arguments to why depression and suicide are up. Why people don't want kids. It also points out the hypocrisies and contradictions of the left. Any thoughts? Here's a quote and a video from the channel
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your smile gets me trippin' bananas more than any DMT. But that's just called simping cringe incel creep retard right? 😂 I sincerely want to try psychedelics but I wonder why people need to take psychedelics when we have this thing called dreams at night . A dream is literally a psychedelic trip .DMT gets released in the brain during death ..and during REM sleep or the dreaming phase. And my dreams are getting wacky to incredible degrees lately ..it had me contemplating suicide. Not to mention that absolutely everything is a trip .
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Elliott replied to Jacob Morres's topic in Society, Politics, Government, Environment, Current Events
Yeah.... they did "The Daily Wire's initial funding came from several million dollars in seed money provided by the billionaire Wilks brothers, Dan and Farris. They are known for their involvement in the petroleum industry and have since funded other right-wing media outlets like PragerU through their charitable foundations, according to The Guardian. The Daily Wire was co-founded by Ben Shapiro and Jeremy Boreing, who previously worked for the David Horowitz Freedom Center-funded TruthRevolt." "Since 2010, male suicide rates have increased by 30 percent.May 30, 2025" must be all them liberals killing themselves.... -
Leo Gura replied to Bjorn K Holmstrom's topic in Society, Politics, Government, Environment, Current Events
Suicide it is -
PurpleTree replied to PurpleTree's topic in Spirituality, Consciousness, Awakening, Mysticism, Meditation, God
If by the "same place" you mean death then yes sure. "Guys drinking suicide juice delivered from a narcissistic delusional cult leader, guys blowing themselves up for their religion isn’t as nice as guys getting flowy dowy glowy liberated. Although it’s a pathless path and no one ends up on the mountain because there isn’t anyone" -ancient PurpTreeism proverb -
Claude: - The Geological Constraint Both Europe and China face the same fundamental geographic limitation: high population density relative to domestic energy and agricultural (mainly lacking in China) resources. This creates an inherent vulnerability - both regions must secure external supplies to maintain their civilizations at current scales. This isn’t a temporary policy choice but a permanent structural reality that shapes their strategic imperatives. - Historical Responses to Resource Constraints Europe’s solution was expansionist - colonialism, mercantilism, and later financial imperialism allowed it to extract resources globally while maintaining control over supply chains. This worked for centuries but required military dominance to sustain. China’s response was the opposite - retreat into autarky, accepting lower material living standards in exchange for strategic autonomy. The Middle Kingdom model prioritized self-sufficiency over expansion, but at the cost of technological and economic development. - The Modern Convergence Today’s situation presents both powers with the same optimal strategy: peaceful trade relationships that secure resource flows without the costs of military enforcement. Both would benefit enormously from stable, long-term commercial partnerships with resource-rich nations like Russia, the Middle East, Africa, and Latin America. Europe’s Strategic Confusion Europe is acting like a would-be hegemon while lacking hegemonic capabilities. It’s adopted American-style rhetoric about “rules-based order” and primacy, but lacks the military, energy, and financial independence to back up such posturing. This creates several problems: • Resource Security: Antagonizing suppliers (Russia) while lacking alternatives creates vulnerability • Strategic Autonomy: Following US policies that may not serve European interests • Economic Efficiency: Sanctions and trade wars increase costs for resource-dependent Europe • Diplomatic Capital: Hectoring developing nations about “values” while lacking leverage China’s More Rational Approach China, having learned from its isolationist mistakes, now pursues what Europe should: commercial partnerships without ideological demands. Belt and Road Initiative, BRICS expansion, and resource deals with sanctioned countries all reflect recognition of China’s geological constraints and the need for diverse, stable supply relationships. - The Tragedy of European Policy Europe could be China’s natural partner in creating a multipolar world based on trade rather than domination. Both need resources, both have technology and capital to offer in exchange, both benefit from stable international commerce. Instead, Europe has chosen to play junior partner in American primacy games it lacks the power to win. This misalignment between Europe’s structural position (resource-dependent, militarily weak) and its policy stance (primacy-seeking, sanctions-heavy) creates the very instability that threatens European interests. A resource-constrained region picking fights with suppliers while lacking energy independence is strategic suicide. The irony is that Europe’s colonial history should have taught it that resource extraction through coercion requires overwhelming force - something it no longer possesses in a multipolar world.
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PurpleTree replied to PurpleTree's topic in Spirituality, Consciousness, Awakening, Mysticism, Meditation, God
Not necessarily. Otherwise there wouldn’t be that many cults and Scientology etc. The guys in the cult who the cult leader gave them suicide juice probably thought he was genuine. -
James123 replied to Ishanga's topic in Spirituality, Consciousness, Awakening, Mysticism, Meditation, God
Hey Brother. You are definitely right from your perspective. However, I was suicidal and try to suicide couple times. Till I met with @Nahm Back and forth we had hundreds of conversations and with all his sayings, i mixed with all other teachings from different teacher and it made sense. Moreover, top of that I had so much suffering in my so called personal life. Then I totally surrender and died anyway 😂 😂 😂 which is more difficult then suicide, which is quick death. Surrendering is complete burning while breathing. 😂 😂 So now, Being, therefore love, sharing, caring, crying, hugging and bliss is inevitable. Enlightenment is the best service that one can do for humanity. Because, there is no i there, therefore no conflict, expectations, divisions etc... Just saying. -
I don't think they can really do that at this point, given all the speculation about Epstein himself being taken out. Also, I'm sure she has safeguards of her own in place to protect her from things like a suicide narrative. It would be too risky to take her out. Even if she so happened to get killed in a traffic accident or a heart attack, speculation would rise to a risky level. Although, something like a car accident might work, because the average American just needs the slightest bit of plausible deniability to accept something. But I'm guessing you'd have 5-10x the journalists probing into the situation, which is risky.
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So Leo once said that being able to go Meta, or having a bird's eye view on reality is more likely to cause someone to be happy; That it is ultra important for finding happiness. But say an animal has far lower consciousness than most humans, but wouldn't a simple mind also more likely to be content? I know some countries with very low conscious simple minded people, but it's clearly stopped them from thinking and knowing too much, therefore it prevents them from committing suicide. So is it really true that generally people who can go more meta or train themselves to have a bird's eye view on reality really are generally happier? I know many children more content and at peace than many adults. And is a more complex being (say pigs are more complex than ants) more likely to be higher in consciousness than a more simple being? And why is that or why not? Because I can just argue that the ant has less needs than a pig, and is more likely to be content and not even have to think about contentment.
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"SPRING SUICIDE" Dosage: 75-150ug Height/weight: 6'1, 140lbs Setting: Public Beach Time: 8:00pm Mindset: Calm. Excited. No current major life events. Hopeful. A deep sense that today is the "right" day Intention: Wanting change, no matter it's form This would be my first time trying any psychedelic. I had decided on this day approximately a week in advance. One of the reasons I chose this day was because the full moon was supposed to come out that night. I guess I thought it would make it more special. In the past, I had read extensively about LSD, many trip reports, and understood its safety parameters, typical/atypical effects, and potentially significant risks--including brain damage and losing grip with reality. I've read about nonduality, panpsychism, and the limits of rationality in the past-- but on that particular day, much of that knowledge was not on the forefront of my mind. The day itself started off fairly normal; I had gone about my duties calmly and slowly--with intention. I don't know why, but I had skipped breakfast that day, which was unusual for me. For lunch (12:00pm) I went to the grocery store and bought myself a familiar meal I've eaten throughout the years—one that brings me comfort: Baked chicken thighs with fried rice. I slowly and deliberately enjoyed every bite of it in the peaceful solitude of my room. I remember watching Squid Game Season 2 while I was eating. For those familiar with trips—this may have been a bad idea, the violence of that series is not something I potentially needed in my headspace. I remember a song played during the episode, it was a cover of the Frank Sinatra song, "Fly Me to the Moon". I thought that was funny. I took a relaxing, untimed nap after my meal. Waking up, I felt amazingly refreshed and strong. Let us now skip to the evening time. At 7pm, I placed the ziplock bag containing the blotted paper LSD tabs in my pocket and set out on my walk. The walk to the beach was a little less than 1 hour, and I had checked that the sunset was happening around 7:50. Perfect. The weather was calm, clouds and deep blue skies with warm temperate air. It was spring! The walk itself was tranquil and memorable. My neighborhood had such colorful flora blooming in full glory that month. I walked with a slight smile. **When I finally arrived at the beach, I selected an isolated spot near the shore and on the rocks-- away from people. I wanted to be as alone as possible. I sat comfortably, and watched the sun start its descent. At 8pm I placed one of the tabs sublingually. I waited. The sky was starting to become hazy. Soon some stars emerged. Then, at about 8:30pm I noticed something. The waves in the distance were undulating, rippling in an impossible fashion. They started to ripple heavily into the air, as if the entire body of water was boiling and slowly evaporating into the air. This effect got closer and closer until it reached the waves closest to me. I was shocked. My eyes widened in amazement. I looked up at the clouds, they seemed normal. I looked away at the now darkening sky. It started to feel as if I was looking at it for the first time in my life. When I looked back at the clouds, their shape had completely changed from before! It had only been a few seconds since I last looked at them. It was, sort of funny. I attempted to reproduce the effect and looked away and then back at the clouds. It happened again! It was a slight distortion of the shape, nothing dramatic. But all of this felt as if the clouds were playing a big game of peek-a-boo, and I was the baby. It was kind of, hilarious... I started to chuckle. And then I started to laugh. I couldn't tell you why it was so funny. I started to laugh harder and harder. I couldn't stop. It was uncontrollable. I don't know if I've ever let out such deep, guttural laughs in my entire life. I felt like the Joker character, when only he's privy to a certain joke. But what the hell was the joke here? I suppose the clouds and I were just playing—like children. I continued crying and howling in laughter for almost 30min, attempting to suppress it in the in-between moments—but to no avail. Next, I gawked at the stars. One particular group/constellation stood out to me. After looking it up later on, I believe now that it was the Big Dipper. The stars Dubhe, Megrez, Phecda, and Merak stared back at me with an unimaginable and glaring intensity. Have they always been that bright? I could feel them looking, observing me with wide eyes. They gazed with a fierce, hot-blooded quality about them. It was almost terrifying, but impossible to look away. It was like this for a few moments. Then, just then, at that moment, they spoke something to me. Not in words, no, they spoke despite anatomy. Without vocals, sounds, or a chance of misunderstanding. At first, I didn't understand what was said. And then, horrifyingly, I do. Tears streamed down my cheeks, replacing the joyous ones from before. Sadness, with a staggering depth of which I didn't know was possible, enveloped me completely. I sniffled silently at first. The shape of the stars began to slightly melt. A few moments later I started to sob. I cried and cried until I was a wailing mess. I roared out sounds from deep within my diaphragm, sounds I didn't know I was even capable of producing. The stars now looked like wax dripping from a candle. They were crying too. They cried alongside me, with me, and for me. But why? I turned my sniveling head and soon heard the trees, grass, waves, clouds...everything, starting to cry. Weeping the saddest song I have ever heard in my life. It made me cry even harder. We were all in unison now. Like a chorus of melancholy. But why? What were we crying about? I continued to weep until I was keeled over and shaking; I wanted to ball up into a fetal position to feel safe. As I looked around, there was something there... I detected this presence. It was scary at first, but soon became comforting, as if to say, "it's ok, you're ok". I felt "myself" slip away in sadness as the universe and I continued to cry together. The process continues to occur inexorably. Around maybe 30-40 more minutes of this and it finally dawned on me what was happening. I understood. Of course, we were, all of us, mourning. Mourning a death. The death of "me". No, not my body. That was still intact. My heart was still beating. It was the death of me. The identity, the problems, the stories, the lies, the truths, the ugliness, the beauty, the memories, all of it, was dying. All of it was being burned into ashes and thrown into the wind. I found no reason to resist. I surrendered. On April 12, 2025, I died. As I calmed down, I could sense "my" mind working faster than ever before. Allowing it to happen, the lethal realization of before settled into me. I stood up, as if born again. I understood the "joke" the clouds were babbling about earlier. It was my life. A grand joke in its entirety, until now... and today, the punchline was grasped. Nothing could be funnier. I let out a contorted chuckle. I could now view myself from multiple perspectives. The vantage point of the stars was now mine. Same with the trees. "Nature" was, in every essence, me. I looked down at the grass, and I could see myself! As if looking from behind the mirror. I walked and the grass beckoned for me to touch with my bare feet. I "spoke", "maybe next time!". The grass laughed. I heard the waves crashing against the dock and it called to me. I walked towards it and reached the edge. Looking above the water, the night sky was so brilliant now. I was thankful for a clear night. I did a 180, turned around and then saw it. The full moon, teased just slightly above the tree lines of my neighborhood. My jaw almost hit the floor as I beheld it. Such absolute beauty! I knew it was on the rise and I wanted all of it. I walked toward the local hot dog store and called an Uber. I knew I was in no condition to undertake the hour walk back home. I waited. My mind grasped the trees. They whispered jokes. I snickered and chuckled like a madman. The stars, clouds, grass, and trees all claimed that they were always here! That it was always like this. That I just never noticed them They asked if I would kindly return one day. I promised that I would. I probably looked insane to an outside observer. I exuded disorder. Finally, when the driver arrived, I entered after asking the name, and we took the drive to my address. We made some small talk. I tried to behave and keep repressed the emotions that were rising inside me. I remember the driver commented on the moon. I let out a contorted chuckle. After we reached my home, I thanked him and wished him a good night. As I walked up the driveway to my stairs, I could feel something, this energy rising inside me, I knew it would surface soon. I. HAD. TO. GET. IN. MY. ROOM. I opened the door to my house and, unfortunately, my roommates stood there, one in the living room, the other close to the kitchen. I will refer to them as (not real names) Abe (he/him) and Zoey (she/her). I had told Zoey about my intention to use LSD that day, but the only thing I wanted at that moment was solitude. Abe: "Hey bud" Zoey: "Get any cool visuals!?" Me: "Oh fuck". Abe: "Alright, let's get you grounded" Zoey: "Nope" I left immediately. I walked outside for a bit, unable to take my eyes off the moon. It was SEXY. That was the only appropriate word. I wanted to fuck its brains out. Like my survival depended on it. I needed it. But I also wanted to make love to it slowly... That energy inside me threatened to let itself out. I knew I wouldn't last long now. I decided to wait outside in the backyard until my roommates left the living room because I didn't want them, or anyone for that matter, to see me like this. The backyard we had was large. I stepped into its clearing and sat under the trees and flowers. The tree branches were lit by yellow wire-lights set by our neighbor. It looked so beautiful. As I sat there, the fallen leaves on the floor started to move and shift their shape. They matched my breathing. Every breath I took in, was an inhalation mirrored by them. I exhaled. The shapes of the leaves twisted and bent into serpents. Luminous, bright serpents, about 1 foot long, now slithered toward me. I welcomed them. They appreciated my permission, wrapped around my legs and slowly made their way to my torso, arms, then head. They were divine. I could hear them next to my ear, whispering secrets which seemed to "reprogram" my neurology. My thoughts raced. My breath quickened. I could feel my pupils dilate to their maximum capacity. I was becoming inhuman. I felt like a painting or a piece of art. I never felt so beautiful. Not in a vain sort of way, I just felt no shame in that moment. I could have been naked and it wouldn't have mattered. Then, I remembered my objective. I stood up and started walking. I made my way to the driveway again and caught sight of the moon. It was comically large now. I've never seen such intense glow. It was almost too much. My heart beat faster. I was completely seduced. I squirmed at the sight of it. I tried to calm myself. It screamed for me to come. The energy inside of me was rising up my spinal column...I didn't time this correctly, did I? I knew I had to go into my room and be in privacy. But I decided to wait out a little longer outside. I went to the local park next. Luckily nobody was there. I stood on the grass, breathed deep and sighed. There was one dim white streetlight, but everything else was very dark otherwise. However, the trees and the grass in the park were soaring with vibrant green. It was stunning. I wanted to sink, to be fully gone and be one of them. The beauty was too much for me. Barely able to stand anymore, I dropped to my knees. My palms found themselves placed on the grass. Both hands start to meld and dissolve into the earth. I was frozen. I let it happen. I didn't want to move. And the moon watched all of this. The energy rose higher up my spinal column. "I. MUST. GO" I power walked back to my house. As someone who gets cold very easily, I could feel my body perceive the outside air as too cold, but the energy inside of me burned with such heat that it didn't matter. As I walked, I exclaimed every couple of seconds, "Ah I get it! Hahaha, I get it now!" "Oh, you sexy thing", I kissed the moon goodbye, she winked back. I opened the house door and quietly crept downstairs to my room and locked my door, hoping not to disturb anyone. FINALLY. My light was on. It NEEDED to be turned off. My clothes were on. They NEEDED to be stripped off. I felt the rush of that "first time" feeling when you are about to have sex with someone you've been having intense feelings for (if one would be so lucky as to experience this). I turned on my corner fan to drown out any possible noises I may make. My bed is essentially a sleeping bag and mattress on my ground carpet. I crawled into a ball on the far corner of it, naked as the day I was born, and felt safe. There was no turning back now. My mouth dropped open from heavy breathing. Despite the cold, I started to sweat. My heart was pounding faster and louder. My brain was on fire. My spine burned from the rising. I perceived that this may get violent. I felt near apoplexy. I was blind, yet my vision was supernatural in its clarity and realness. I hallucinate. Scenes of psychic divinity stretching onward into geometric patterns of unwinding infinite complexity. I grasped the wholeness of it. The room was not my room anymore. It was alive, breathing deep alongside me. Everything inanimate was animate. Everything "other" was me. We were intertwined, inseparable, and as one--similar to the nature I perceived outside.Then, a thought occurred for a fraction of a nanosecond, "WAIT...ALL OF IT?"..."ALL OF IT!" I became extremely lucid, then broke through a threshold. Human larynx and language limited me now. There was only one word I couldn't help but utter after that. "GOD" Coiled and wrapped around my cervical vertebrae, the "energy" vibrated, then leapt, and finally latched onto my brain, proceeding to penetrate my very soul. My eyes rolled up and back. I went limp. My body convulsed and shook. My mouth gasped at air. My legs started to shake. ORGASM. As I exhaled, every few minutes, I moaned out softly, "OH..MY...G-O....G-OD..GOD". I dared to scream until the neighbors called the police. "OHHHHHHHHHHH GODDDDDDDDDD!" There were earthquakes all over my body. Every cell of my body pulsed, achieving orgasm simultaneously. I writhed uncontrollably, violently. My abdominal muscles contracted and went into spasms. At long last, I penetrated the moon, a conjured substitute for the universe, and each micro and macroscopic part of my soul ejaculated. And yet I was being penetrated and having a double orgasm at the same time. How paradoxical. How appropriate. I understood the phrase "mind-fuck". My body was drenched in sweat. I heaved and gasped hard to keep up. This lasted for the next 7 hours, with each orgasm pushing further and further, crashing through me like waves on a shore-- to ever increasing heights of bliss. I felt love. It traced my form like soft fingers. It felt like that once in a lifetime kind of love. That first reciprocated love. To love completely, and be loved unconditionally in return. Everlasting. Fireworks. I understood the Hindu word, "ananda". For brief moments, my normal perception returned. Brief respite, but pained frenzy. My tongue drooled. Every fiber of my muscles twitched in post-orgasm. It was almost too much to bear anymore. How can something be THAT pleasurable? Terror and hysterical laughter at the thought...Then back to a perpetual explosion of fucking and being fucked. I achieved critical mass. I became an infinite dragon. Clad in turquoise armor, completely dilated black eyes, and possessing breath of creation and destruction; but granting immortality unto itself. A humming echo returned, as if always there, but remembered only now, like a triggered memory. My mind raced further-further back. The story of my life? Where was I from? Really, truly, from? A womb? But what about the source? Infinite regress. My vagina stretched wide as I screamed. A distant memory. I then gave birth. To a child—myself. MOTHER AND EARTH = I. The solar system, galaxy, clusters, void...I expanded further and further to include everything. Everything that has, is, and will ever exist. I was all and thus was the same for every "other". But we can go even further beyond. I willfully [hallucinated] existence. Alternate timelines—infinite possibilities and universes. Infinite variations in the laws of math, physics, chemistry, biology. If it is imaginable, it exists, somewhere, sometime, someplace. Minutes passed. I could hear the morning birds. As I creaked open my eyes, I was still on the mattress, hands clenching my hair. My sheets soaked in sweat. My throat was raw, probably from the screaming. I sat up and then stood. It was around 8am. The trip had lasted approximately 12 hours. A wave of tiredness came over me. I'd been awake all night. I looked at my hands. They looked foreign. Alien. Then came slow revelation. "I" understood now the mechanism of my thinking. I knew precisely how understanding happened and how it is recursive. "Self-aware" and "awake" are words that found new meaning. I felt more "sober" than I had ever been. I could see now how my mind operated. With almost every reaction to "reality" being a process born of identity and trauma. I saw the mental connections forming, interacting, and how every person is like this. We are the same. Seeking to love and be loved. Our survival depends on it. I was overwhelmed by all this new input. It was days and weeks before I controlled this new flood of filtering; underpinning sex, aggression, self-preservation, all the while disguised as "rational thoughts". I recognized how much of this is the cause of my mood, my motive-- behind every micro-action or decision. My memory and ability for pattern recognition felt easier and faster. Put simply, I felt more "aware" than before. I could see so clearly now that societal constructs, socialization, and socializing was-- low-- and at times--- high-stakes, survival. Survival of ideology, identity, goals, hopes, dreams, and stories we tell ourselves. These were necessary. A perfect balance of life. It was perfect. I do not claim to know the entirety of absolute truth/nature of the universe or that I am now all knowing. After contemplating, many questions still linger: The "perfect balance" of life is perfect and undoubtedly has meaning, but what is the meaning behind it? I do sense that what I grasped was merely one facet of a larger truth. This truth, I intuit, has infinite facets. Grasping them all in a lifetime is [impossible], but exploration/curiosity does drive me to seek and grasp further. Continued exploration of psychedelics [more responsibly next time] is needed. But for now, gratitude filled my cup. I had more to give. -Thank you for reading
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I am dealing with a terrifying situation. I have a narcissistic family with members who are aware of my severe depression, PTSD, and trauma who are actively weaponizing my deepest psychological wounds against me. They are aware of my risk of suicide, yet they have already pushed me to acting on these suicide plans despite pretending to care on the surface while keeping the abuse hidden from others so they will gaslight me about the situation. It may be the case that my sister wants me dead and her abusive tactics could be a manifestation of homicidal intent. The reason suicide by proxy is the perfect murder is because it is nearly impossible to prove that the psychological and emotional abuse targeted at a vulnerable person is attempted murder. There are many layers of plausible deniability. All the perpetrators have to do is pretend to be caring on the surface and then use various covert methods of undermining the victim's sanity while framing their mental health as the problem. In fact suicide by proxy is on the rise and it has overtaken direct murders in intimate partner violence. Furthermore there are Nazis who are increasingly using these tactics of suicide by proxy in order to cover their murders and they are getting away with it. Presently there are almost no legal protections against this method of murder. Presently the suicide statistics are wrong because many of those were likely murders and involved abusive relationships which led to the suicide. There seems to be almost no way to figure out how many of those suicides are actually murders. In my case the psychological and emotional abuse I experienced has resulted in symptoms of PTSD such as nightmares, severe anxiety, inability to stop ruminating, insomnia, and so forth. I am especially vulnerable to this because as an individual with autism I am about 10 times more sensitive to this kind of abuse and it is much more likely to lead to PTSD in autistic individuals. In my case my survival instincts prevented me from carrying out my plans and I ultimately survived. In the case of my family they use all the classical tactics of narcissists. They use DARVO, minimization, victim blaming, weaponized morality, and even weaponized trauma all while avoiding accountability whenever possible. This type of abuse is designed to make the victim seem crazy which is why therapists who are not trained in abusive relationships often blame the victim and pathologize the trauma responses. Like my family, I also had therapists who would push religious frameworks on me such as Jesus and forgiveness which simply do not apply to this situation. This kind of response served to cause me religious trauma on top of the previous trauma. It is obvious that my family and many therapists have no interest in understanding my world view or my sense of morality as they simply project motives onto me that don't exist and then try to put me in these narrow categories of faith or reason. It is obvious to me that my sister and my mother match the description of vulnerable narcissists. My sister in particular shows obvious signs of enjoying the suffering she causes others including me when she weaponizes PTSD against me. This is common in narcissistic individuals and in the case of vulnerable narcissists, the personality disorder often stems from abandonment trauma such as my father fleeing the state to avoid paying child support. My sister was old enough to remember this, which likely instilled her with deep anger and a sense of betrayal. Once my father started showing surface level sexist favoritism toward me which was actually part of a psychopathic scheme of his, my sisters turned against me even more. I became a symbol of my sisters' unworthiness and thus became an even bigger target to them. In narcissistic individuals this could be a source of homicidal intent, but once again it is nearly impossible to prove because of how deceptive and manipulative such people are. Unfortunately, explaining these dynamics to my family is impossible. It is like trying to tell the family that there is a child molester among them. They will rush to the defense of the abuser and blame the victims. Families typically refuse to believe that someone they love is deeply cruel and deceptive. The same happens in cases of covert psychological abuse and suicide by proxy. In such cases, the victim would be blamed and gaslit by the entire family. The family members in my case are either participating in the abuse and denying that it even is abuse or they are ignorantly applying religious frameworks to me as if my behavior is a moral failure due to not forgiving people who may want me to commit suicide. There needs to be more advocacy for the victims of suicide by proxy in these abusive relationships. We can't let evil win by exploiting these legal weaknesses, and our refusal to commit suicide is an act of resistance against these people. Narcissists, sociopaths, and psychopaths think they are clever in their ability to manipulate people and systems to their bidding, and we must not reward this behavior by killing ourselves as they likely want this in many cases. If you are a victim of an abusive relationship, then you must not let these people break you. You must do whatever you can to understand yourself, your trauma, and their abusive tactics clearly so that you can protect yourself from harm. I understand that it is far easier said than done as I myself was driven to suicide attempts and the mental health system failed me when I reached out for help. We ultimately need a better system to protect trauma survivors, but until then we must find other ways to support each other. I understand their antics clearly. Now that I do, their guilt tripping and manipulative tactics no longer work on me. I will not engage in their shit and I will not let them twist my words to turn me into the perpetrator. I urge any victims reading this to do whatever you can to protect yourself even if it is from somebody you love. Don't let your love for them blind you to the abuse as sometimes they are counting on that and they will mix surface level love and compassion with hidden abuse to confuse you. You were always worthy of authentic love, but unfortunately such people may not be able to provide it to you.
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Yeah Yeah replied to Yeah Yeah's topic in Society, Politics, Government, Environment, Current Events
The way we glorify “success” in this culture is rotten at the core. We treat billionaires and “self-made” moguls like saints, when in reality most of them got there by exploitation, hoarding, and stepping over the bodies of the people who made their wealth possible. If anything, those sitting on obscene amounts of money should be shamed — not worshipped. Nobody actually stops to ask what “success” even means. In most cases it’s nothing more than slapping a gold-leaf bandage over a deep wound of lack, inadequacy, or trauma. My own father worked himself to the bone in online business for over a decade, clinging to one major client. In the end, a divorce, a biased court system, a failing business, and crushing humiliation drove him to suicide. Decades of “hustle” left him with nothing but stress and despair. That’s what blind pursuit of “success” can really buy you. And yet we’re told, “Start a business! Be an entrepreneur!” — as if the mere act of monetizing something is inherently noble. If you’re not truly passionate about what you’re offering, you’re just cranking out more hollow junk to sell to people who are doing the same thing. It’s a hamster wheel of meaningless production, low-quality goods, and spiritual rot. We’ve built a world where cafés, doughnut shops, and clothing brands compete not on quality or creativity, but on how cheaply they can slap together another disposable product. We overproduce mountains of garbage, waste obscene amounts of food, and still work ourselves into early graves. Worse, people confuse money with wealth. Hoarding currency is not the same as having the resources, skills, and community to live well. You can own ten mansions and still only live in one bedroom. You can eat only so many steaks. You can’t make love to a million dollars. And when you die, the money won’t follow you — but the relationships you neglected, the time you wasted, and the spirit you corroded will be your real legacy. This greed-driven model isn’t even how nature works. In a healthy body, the brain doesn’t hoard all the blood and oxygen for itself while the rest of the organs starve — but that’s exactly how billionaires treat the rest of humanity. The hoarding is pathological, and it’s killing us. Industrialization and consumer capitalism have sold us a lie: that government and corporations “give” us freedom. In reality, they’ve replaced meaningful trades, local production, and community life with corporate dependency, debt slavery, and constant overwork. Before this system took hold, people worked less, owned their land, and had deeper spiritual and social lives. Now? We’re atomized, medicated, pacified with porn, scrolling, and disposable entertainment — all while politicians and CEOs line their pockets and tell us it’s progress. Look around: the dating market is commodified like everything else. Relationships are disposable, judged on earning potential rather than character. Influencers like Andrew Tate are worshipped for flaunting cars while contributing nothing of spiritual or cultural value. Billionaires throw grotesque parties that shut down entire city streets while homelessness festers outside. And somehow, we cheer for them. If Jesus said it’s easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven, I believe him — because I can’t think of anything more spiritually corrosive than worshipping money while ignoring the suffering of others. We’ve traded community, craftsmanship, and spirit for cheap goods, hollow status, and Instagram illusions. And we call that “success.” -
I didn't understand. By pick up i mean go to flirt with girls on the street or in clubs. What does what people actually do in real life, statistically, have to do with the threads guys make here Are there only people who pick up here, and does it only work btw Yes, men with brains full of dopamine thank you after your performance. Does that mean prostitution is a good thing on a large scale I can say "oh yeah" after smoking crack, is smoking crack good for the community or me in the long run. Will they get depressed if they don't have access to this It's not a need like drinking or eating, in fact as a man you have an interest in not ejaculating Yes and I didn't commit suicide, or get into drugs, or become a human wreck even though I suffered from insomnia. Honestly for me it's hopeless and pathetic because it prevents you from becoming stronger but whatever. Does that negate what I said On the contrary, yes, precisely as I said above, I'm fine even though I'm a virgin and I've drained my vital energy with a lot of sleep deprivation, stress, steroids (for a few months), and medication. I'm living proof that these are essentially whims. What isn't a whim, however, is not having to eat; it just so happens that I mentioned escorts by chance, but I'm much less interested in them than in many other professions. I repeat myself.
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Now the human wants to meditate it's way into stopping thought. Humans didn't produce or create thought so how can humans stop thought. It's like suicide. The human is the thought. Suffocating itself. No wonder some experience heart palpitations during certain meditations. You all think this spirituality thing is a joke. It's a shock to the body's natural systems. Spirituality is man-made, an ideology, ideas and concepts. The body is real. The body is not an illusion, you are, the person is; but the body can feel the effects. Lots of spiritual people have gone insane or develop some type of dis-ease.
