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This is a confusion I have about nonduality. When I say multiple, I mean one consciousness living itself from different angles?

Hello! First, thank you Leo for sharing the work and insights, I find your content great and helpful. Today when i was in bathroom one idea came to my mind. A kind of an analogy. Somehow I came to realization that Leo's style of explaining many concepts, mental images etc. is a sort of mind training. Using the muscles make muscles stronger. Doing exercises. Trying different coordination techniques as dancing, some sport. It all makes a person more stronger and powerful physically. Their spectrum of body movement and physical possibilities would broaden. There is specialization(some olympic disciplines as trowing discs) and there are more general athletes - doing wide range of exercises for overall athletic abilities. It improves competence for doing physical stuff. If you just lie on a bed your muscles would become weaker, they would atrophy, and you would have more difficult life - which would result in neurotic conditions. I have a medical condition called spinal muscular atrophy - and i find it great that i have a chance of becoming more powerful by training my mind to use many concepts. Neurons in the brain are a sort of muscles too. Using more of them makes them stronger. And i guess the statement "knowledge is power" is about that. It broadens your possibilities. You manipulate a little bit more of the reality. You have similar benefits as you would be physically stronger. Ideally, of course is better to have both if neuroticism and weakness is considered bad. I am guessing people who look for self help have in some sense atrophied minds. Leo's sharing insights is broadening our minds. I see science as a tool to broaden concepts even further. We are limited to our senses. In science we can use some machine to collect some hidden information from reality. Result is more concepts. More power. More competence. A person with 20 concepts can outsmart, outplay, sell more to the person with 13 concepts. Chess is a good example. ... I could write about this till tomorrow. One question... many of us will become old and weak. Losing neurons too. Can we avoid neurotic behavior in that age, being mindfull etc? Reducing the suffering? ________________________________ Opening 3-4 topics today seems like spam. So i would type few more offtopic questions. If the reality is consciousness - does reality have an ego too? Philosophical view Idealism its pretty similar view btw. On duality - non duality... Einsteins theory of relativity reminded me of the concept spacetime . Could we potentially call nonduality and reality -> matterconsciousness or consciousnessmatter? I think about a sine wave curve , amplitudes give the illusion of duality, but there is just The line.

I’m not using the term as an “absolute” awakening. Rather that there are various genres of awakening experiences. The one I referred to above was in the “ego-death” genre of awakening. All ego, self, language, thoughts, concepts, ideas, meaning etc. were removed. The entire story of who I am dissolved and there was no “me”. There was still object perception, yet the relationship with the object was completely different. I could get all conceptual about nonduality, the illusory self, no-self and cut-and-paste pages of Buddhist text. All that stuff is great as a supportive framework for the direct experience. Yet, years of conceptualizing and a hundred books of theory can’t compare to the direct experience. It’s like direct experience “knowing” is in a container of conceptual “knowng”. A container of conceptual knowledge without direct expience is like an empty closed container. It lacks the substance of true direct experience substance. It lacks fullness and appears very shallow to me. As well, I’ve found that direct experience can shatter attachment to ideology and open a person up to wonder and curiosity to explore.

Well I think Leo and I are a lot alike. He seems to have consumed a hell of a lot more books then I have and tasted the depths of nonduality through dmt and personal practice. I've meditated for the past 15 years, been apart of a few spiritual communities and focused my attention on understanding truth. I've consumed little books but listened for hours to awakened teachers. Some mushroom experiences were also very helpful in waking up. Leo seems to be in a "unfiltered with a slight edge" phase of wanting the world to change and having a little frustration with the closeness of human minds. If used this energy is used correctly it can help people, but also turn off if not wielded right (so far I can see that his heart is still in the right place). This is not a critisism but just a little observation that could be full of shit haha as he puts it in his latest video.

@seeking_brilliance What I meant was that whatever emotions we feel are just experiences based on the metaphysical connection we realize with something else. That's what's going on behind the scenes. When you look at examples of true love, unconditional love... that phenomenon usually happens when you recognize deep sameness between yourself and something or someone else. Why does a parent (mother especially) feel unconditional love with their child? Because they realize that child IS them, in a certain sense. So in a way all love is self-love. Love breaks down the barriers that the ego created, and recognizes the deep sameness. The more I brought up examples and contemplated this, the more I realized that love in essence is the reconnection between mind (this is all mind-stuff after all). What you perceive as the feeling of love (and of course from a human's perspective, this is a complicated emotion that arises in so many ways), is really YOU (infinite being) breaking down barriers and reconnecting with yourself. Think of it like open communication with all parts of your being. That's an immensely pleasurable feeling. "The self cannot love" is a true statement and not contradictory. Making the distinction of "The self" fundamentally separates "you" from "other." That is what's usually called ego. I hope that makes more sense with my definition of love in the above paragraph. "All love is self-love" is a true statement, because there is nothing other than you. But we're seeing that language (symbols) breaks down when talking about nonduality. It's kind of a whacky strange loop. The first statement is from the perspective of separateness, the second statement is from the perspective of the universe. So in summary, love is MUCH more than just a feeling. The feelings are secondary, the primary process is metaphysical connection. And what is connection taken to its furthest point? The convergence of multiple parts into one... With this definition, you'll quickly see that a lot of what you once thought of as "love" is just hormones, and that true love becomes easier to spot. I think it's simple yet profound.

The various aspects of this "infinite playdoh" or void. That love, intelligence, and consciousness are fundamental. There's many facets to this, and each realization is separate from nonduality, almost like a subset.

I think lucid dreaming is like jail-breaking your mind. even tho its much more widespread than nonduality and LoA, probably because it is easier to achieve. its also as you called LoA, a 'low-grade' hack. I think non-duality is the ultimate jail-break tho, the hack that deletes the whole system lol (including the hacker)

No I get you. Brian’s content just doesn’t resonate with me and my personality. I personally resonate more with Leos content and focus on combining nonduality and personal development in a very explicit, non apologetic, bigger picture way. I had Brian’s app but didn’t like it. Glad it works for you! @Gabriel Antonio @Emerald Thanks. Yeah I feel you guys might be right. I’d need to move out of the San Francisco Bay Area which I both do and don’t want to do but I’ll figure out something I guess...

I’ve had enlightened experiences, but I am not enlightened. The enlightened state is transient and not maintained. However, it has altered my perspective in my unenlightened state. One becomes skeptical to the point everything gets deconstructed and you die. I recommend watching Leo’s recent blog video on skepticism and Nonduality, He explains the process better than I can. To my self, the process is at times beautiful, terrifying, liberating, loving, sad, lonely, connected. There came a point of no return. I can no longer say “Ya know what, I tried this spiritual thing for a while now and it’s just not working for me. I think I’ll try something else”. There was a time I could have turned away, yet I no longer can. I’ve tried several times and can’t. I guess I have to take this to the end. It’s both exciting and scary.

I wouldn’t want to do it alone. I would want to be at a Turquoise-level institution with awakened beings where we integrate science, metaphysics and nonduality. This area is just starting to emerge, yet is still considered fringe pseudo-science. If I evolve high enough, I may become a pioneer in this field - yet right now it looks unattainable and too risky to me. Personally, I would like to investigate if mutations are nonrandom and some paranormal phenomena. Yet, my institution wouldn’t be open to that. Yet, if I develop more confidence, I might try to pull it off. Yet stage Yelow stuff is lots of fun to and my institution is very supportive at that level. They just don’t like any whoo whoo stuff.

@Joseph Maynor The deeper level is seeing it’s all “bullshit”. All the religion, science, philosophy, buddhist theory, Maya, psychology etc. The problem of the human mind is it can’t see it’s own bullshit. All thought and concepts are bullshit - the problem is when a mind believes it’s true. I just watched a Shinzen Young video. Great insights, yet he has deeper levels to go. He seems to believe what he is saying. Believing in your thoughts and concepts is as psychotic as believing in an imaginaty friend. Our minds are writting creative stories. It can be a creative story about the planet Zarcon and how the jimlee beings interact within their space and how they interact with the camlin beings. We could creativly write about their social structures, experiences, emotions, diet - what is good and bad etc. Yet at the end of the day we could walk away from the writing, realize it is just fantasy and get back to our “real” life. It is *much* harder to realize that all of our own thoughts and concepts about “real” life is also just fantasy bullshit. All of it. I thought Leo’s blog video on skepticism and nonduality was brilliant. IMO, he can go to Alan Watts level depth, yet with his own unique expression/approach.

@sarapr Excellent questions. Th scientific method involves formulating a testable hypothesis, making predictions, gathering and interpreting data, modifying the original hypothesis. Beyond the method, the scientist would strive to place the data into a model, which in turn would be placed within a larger model. For example, placing data of protein interactons into a model of cell division regulation which is placed into a larger model of cancer. Each point above is filled with subjectivity and biases. Scientists admit this to an extent (for example using double blind studies). Yet they are unaware of how deep the subjetivity/bias runs. It’s difficult for scientists to study the greater truth because science is *within* the greater truth. If there is one everything and there is no-thing, how can a scientist step outside of everything to objectively study some thing? Science is a great tool to study the nature of reality. It is useful, yet limited. How can we make science better? I’d say by increasing our awareness of how science fits within a larger holistic view. To acknowledge that we scientists use metaphysics in our work. To acknowledge how little we understand about reality - and not just about the details of protein interactions in cancer cells - also fundamental aspects of reality. To give up the scientists’ obsession with controlling the narrative and to give up power as the arbitrator of truth. To be open minded about how intuition can increase our ability to conduct science. To see science as one tool to study the nature of reality and combine this tool with other constructive tools in psychology and philosophy. More importantly, we should combine constructive science tools with deconstructive tools found in nonduality, mysticism, metaphysics etc. *Disclaimer: I was a life-long scientist within the scientific paradigm before escaping the trap a couple years ago.

@LaraGreenbridge You are clear, understanding, knowing, what the word nonduality points to?

Context: I am 10 days away from a planned Bufo Alvarius session with Octavio Rettig in Spain. Since the retreat organisers strictly state: "no drugs a week before", I thought now might be a good time to trip existentially once so that I breakthrough successfully later Dosage: 400ug LSD Insights: I became aware of the Fact, that Being is Infinite, in all dimensions, everywhere It became glaringly obvious to me how consciousness is a 'shapeshifter' as Leo put it. It has no attributes whatsoever, so it can be everything The residue of my materialist, rationalist paradigm was completely shattered. I encountered this with my 24ug 5-MeO trip before, but there it was more of a shock and I didn't have time to grasp the repercussions of the insight. But now, on LSD, this insight was concretized gradually, such that I cannot deny it anymore. Consciousness is fundamental to reality and existence, not atoms and molecules. Holy fucking shit! Are you kidding me?! I'm an engineer, man! I became aware of the ego, and it is just so much bullshit! Infinite degree of self-deception. I feel that I cannot take anything literally anymore, because the Devil will misconstrue it, even if it is a teaching about enlightenment. Pure irreducible being is all that can be trusted. I feel that there is nowhere to hide anymore. And nowhere to go. What's even the point of lying and bullshitting?! (Of course, I will come up with reasons later) I became conscious of what Nonduality really means. Holy fucking shit! I cannot be jealous of, criticise or judge anything ever again (of course I will find a way) My entire life and being has been completely recontextualized. I understand why they call it 'emptiness' and why people say stuff like 'God is!, saying anything more is already misleading'. My fears: I had originally thought that I would try doing self-inquiry in the dark and face my fears, but the things mentioned above just blew all my plans away But after having all these insights, it became clear to me that what I feared truly wasn't some scary phenomenon or a crazy mindfuck, but the lack of a first person perspective! So I returned to the same position where I was at the end of my 5-MeO trip, knowing that I need to surrender this sense of self, getting close, but failing to do so. Again, so much bullshit here, I became aware of how I'm escaping doing the really important work and instead thinking if I can come up with more insights or something. It really felt like I'm fighting an invisible dragon, as Leo described, but it is just..tough What's next: The Bufo Alvarius ceremony, of course! I hope the drug is powerful, because this ego structure I have is a fucking beast. It will not die! Just wanted to share this. If there is anything I'm misconstruing or doing incorrectly, then please let me know. One obvious mistake I made was to trip on a Sunday evening. This gives me no time to sit and reflect upon my insights, but I had to study for an important test before (of course, it is not important at all, in a way)

If it does not allow you to question/be open to duality and nonduality (or other mind bending (un?)realities), then yeah, you've got a demon, alright.

Yes, that is the catch-22 of social development: low consciousness crowds tend to elect low consciousness leaders, and low consciousness leaders tend to empower low consciousness crowds. The entire society must therefore go through the struggle of fighting it out. The fighting it out IS the ACTUAL process of growth & evolution. Growth and evolution are sometimes bloody and ugly. Peace leads to war, and war leads to peace, and on and on it goes. That's the duality inherent within nonduality. Every country, and every human being is going through this struggle to various degrees. It's just since Brazil isn't as mature as America or Europe, its growing pains will be more acute.

I don’t know. I’m not enlightened, not that far along the Spiral, etc. Maybe. He’s farther along than I am so hey, maybe I’m wrong. I’m open to that. Maybe he’s right about Leo, Sadhguru, and whoever else he deems unenlightened and deluded being a quack about nonduality and what not. I’m not enlightened so I can’t be here saying whose right and whose wrong about the nature of reality. My job is to discover it, be open as fuck, assume I’m wrong, etc. I just don’t see, from all that I study and practice, a deeply enlightened person needing to fit some sort of bill. I get it, he’s studied with Ralston and has done lots of 5-MeO. Cool. I just don’t think this approach to saying ‘fuck all these quacks and phonies, I’ve studied with the real ones and know the truth,’ is one grounded in greater wisdom or greater perspective. I’d put money down he’s never met @Leo Gura so I don’t think he’s in a position where I can take his criticism of Leo being some phony very seriously.

But Leo...in nonduality, 'you're not god' is the same 'you're god'. So what's your problem about that and also about the ignorant of someone saying that. Are we here to learn and be the best version of ourselves? Purify the ignorant instead of dismiss/disallow it. And i'm pretty sure I'm not g o d. (hope I won't be banned after this post :v)

This video is high Orange with a little bit of low yellow. He mistates moral relativism (green) and systems thinking (yellow). He doesn’t seem skilled at post-rational thought He mentions psychedelics, yet I don’t get the sense he has integrated his experiences. SD breaks down at Turquoise, and he didn’t acknowledge nonduality, and the loss of distinctions - language and concepts no longer make sense. He keeps mentioning some product - he is trying to sell?

@Ampresus From the way you write it does not sound like you are mature enough to handle it. Focus on yoga, meditation, self-inquiry, shamanic breathing, etc. And read a lot about nonduality. Psychedelics are no joke. They will rip your reality apart.

Holy fuck it's just a metaphor or mythological framework of nonduality! My old Atheist paradigm get's more and more demolished each and every day... LOVE IT

one question. how can someone start doing the inner work without questioning god? saying someone is god without saying someone is not god, would there still be nonduality? not questioning at all is very dogmatic. there is dogmatism in zen without question, but does it have to, if the question is formulated as a question and not as a statement maybe? how can someone enter a path without questioning in the first place? so if someone asks the question. you would say: you are god. ??? but it doesn’t mean someone stopped questioning, did it? and what would happen if someone would say: i am god. ??? what then?

I think you are using the term "sharing" ideas quite broadly. I would consider at least four subcategories of "sharing" ideas: propagandizing, conflicting, debating and exploring ideas. Propagandizing ideas is a major distraction from learning. These are people intent on spreading their ideas (often erroneous) with no interest of engaging in dialog. Conflicting ideas are people that ignorantly challenge others with the intent of conflict. For example, if I went to a forum for learning Chinese and told the teachers that they actually don't speak Chinese and posted up a bunch of Chinese text to prove my point. Then I go off telling the students what it is really like to live in China (I don't speak Chinese and I have never been to China). The Chinese teachers try to explain that I don't understand Chinese and to be open to learning. I tell them they are wrong and I cut and post some more Chinese images and text to prove my point. This is distracting and misleading to students on the forum that actually want to learn Chinese. This type of conflict instigation occurs on this forum with psychedelics and nonduality. People with no direct experience sometimes parrot what they've read online or stuff they just make up. Debating ideas: I think a lot of people think debating ideas is a great learning method. I see that mentality for some on the forum as well as in academia. IME, I don't think debate is an efficient learning method. It is a middle level Orange zone - I think it can be somewhat useful for high blue to elevate to Orange (Blue eventually sees they are irrational). The problem with debate is that both sides defend their views and want to "win" the debate. Instead of expanding one's mind - it contracts one's mind. Their ideas are often reinforced. Look at some debates between Richard Dawkins and religious zealots. Both sides defend their own position and very little comes out of it. Exploring ideas: This is the learning zone IMO. This is where people are doing self inquiry. Where they realize they don't know it all. Where they are introspective and are open to challenging their own beliefs. It is where "winning" is no longer about being right. "Winning" is about learning and expanding oneself. It is where truth becomes more important than being right and proving others wrong. It is where people say things like "Interesting, I've never thought about it like that". It is where people get curious about psychedelics, chakras, shamanic breathing etc. It is where they try the practices for themselves. It is where people get curious about what Leo means when he says "I am God". It is where they question their belief of what God is and are open to deepening their understanding of God. . .. On this forum, Emerald is a great example. On the national scene, Deepak Chopra is a great example. He explores ideas of science and spirituality. Discussions he has at green and higher levels are beautiful. Yet, when Richard Dawkins enters the picture - it gets ugly. Dawkins is a brilliant geneticist, yet doesn't know shit about spirituality. But he tries to debate and "beat" Chopra (who is much more spiritually advanced). It seems like the average consciousness on the board is upper-orange transitioning to green. This is the transition from debate to exploring. This will be uncomfortable for blue and orange level people. They will want to propagandize, conflict, debate and to pull others down into debate. They will complain that they don't have free speech. They will complain that they are being silenced. We saw this with the blue-orange JP crowd. And if an orange-level Richard Dawkins crowd entered the forum - we would see it with them as well. And it's not just about those that defend blue-orange ideology. Those of us at Green and higher need to be mindful not to drop down to mudslinging and low-level debates. It's easy to fall into that trap - it's happened to me. Personally, I want to continue increasing my level of consciousness and to develop better interpersonal skills so I can learn faster and better help others to evolve. There are countless forums on the internet centered at red, blue and orange. There are much fewer forums centered at Green or Yellow. It takes work to maintain that higher level. . . Consider spiritual Satsangs with Adyashanti or Rupert Spira. This is a high Green audience. The audience is not there to propagandize, initiate conflict or debate. The audience members want to learn, explore and evolve. Watch a two hour Satsang with Adyashanti and a two hour debate between Dawkins and a religious zealot. It's obvious which crowd is learning and evolving. They are worlds apart.

No, this a common misunderstanding. There is nothing to discuss about nonduality. Nonduality is perfectly clear and perfectly documented. The only thing to do with nonduality is to practice it. Anything else is the ego distracting from the work. Debating God does not help anyone. It's perfectly clear what God is. The only question is: will you do the practices necessary to realize it? That you are God is not up for debate or discussion. Look and you will see that it's true. Of course most egos don't want to look. Which is why they resort to all kinds of devilry instead. This is why Zen practice is very austere and brutal. There is no room in Zen for debate. A Zen master would never allow debate in his zendo. Smartasses who try to debate a Zen master will get a punch in the face. The proof is in the practice and nowhere else. If you want to ask questions about how to improve your practice, that is welcome and good. Stick to that. I love reading and answering those types of questions. But starting threads about how Leo is full of shit, or how enlightenment is fake, or how you are not God -- that's just bullshit.

@How to be wise I'm conscious enough to know they are not conscious enough to know what they are talking about. If someone tells me "You are not God", they are straight up ignorant of nonduality. Case closed. I'm not gonna entertain their delusions any further. Being openminded does not mean that I'm tolerant of bullshit. Just the opposite. A deep understanding of nonduality makes it extremely obvious to spot who's full of shit and who hasn't reached the deepest levels yet. Egoless was promoting a dualistic Christian version of a separate God. Which is pure devilry. It's obvious these people have not even bothered to do the basic research, to read the books, let alone to have direct experiences of the advanced and subtle things being discussed here. But these devils don't just stop there. Then what they do is they use the PM system to corrupt the minds of other members behind the scenes, out of sight -- trying to recruit them to their narrow-minded ideology, slowly sowing seeds of doubt and controversy. It's devilry plain and simple. And I'm not gonna sit by and watch it unfold. Devils who come here trying to run their tricks will get slapped across the face. If you want a forum where devils run free, there are thousands of such forums available across the web that you can join. The purpose of moderation is not to censor free speech, but to weed the forum of low-quality members. It only takes a small handful of low-quality members to turn a forum into a cesspool. Because it's the low-quality members who tend to be the most devilish, the most arrogant, the biggest know-it-alls, the biggest bullshitters.