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Love is the wormhole to God, since God is Love. Replace your fear with Love. Love truth, reality, and consciousness so much that you forget all about fear of nothingness or death. That is the way.

Nothingness was a recognition that occurred when the sense of self that casted meaning and value onto everything died. What remained was an incredible empty happening.

@Endangered-EGO Ego curling up has some kind of content in it, usually like a void, it is the ego trying to escape some kind of suffering that it believes it cannot handle. Nothingness is the nothing that is everything. There is no expirence, execpt the Nothingness. Everything you expirence is expirenced as the Nothingness. Emotions are like vortexs yes. The fear is a reaction to something about your ideas of what Nothingness is. As long as you keep making distinctions between pleasent sensations & unplensent ones it is. Not saying that is easy, just it is useful to notice. There is just the senstations. Ego death doesn't have to be painful & fearful, it is just that we usually associate death with those things. The ego will of course want you to think that it is going to be horrifing, because it doesn't want you to realize that it was all a made up fiction.

if i'm god, why do i feel like i'm just a human? and don't tell me that that's what your parents told you, because they're an illusion too right?. Why don't i just exist as god/nothingness/consciousness/whatever and that's it. why do i have to meditate or watch some video to realize that? isn't god not bound by time? maybe what i'm asking is why does this illusion exist, and to realize that you have to go to some country and get fuked by a zen master to realize that! Why all this drama? i really wanna make sense of this but i can't. and i know that i can't make sense of this by thinking about it because thinking is just more dreaming... BUT WHY??? why the fuk is it this why and not another why? (Please don't look at this as multiple questions, try to see the full picture of what i'm trying to ask). (and if you're gonna answer this question by telling me that my senses aren't sharp enough or some bullshit like that. YOU'RE NOT GETTING THE POINT). (and of course the question isn't really "If" i'm god, i'm not questioning that fact, i'm not newbie i've watched so many of @Leo Gura videos for many years so this enlightenment is not new to me).

@OctagonOctopus Well the trauma was in reaction to eternity while being high. The next 6 months where I experienced it, I would describe it as the nothingness without love. It is exactly what is described: eternity, reality being a dream, nothing has substance, no self, no other (all alone). It came at random moments during the day, at the gym, while eating, in class etc. The first time was terrifying, but afterwards it was mostly empty. The fear of it also didn't show up after I stopped experiencing it regularly. Fear of other things came afterwards. I am really not sure. You know that love can elevate your concentration towards something, it's easier to focus on a pleasant sensation than on a neutral one. Fear also absorbs you into what you fear, the more you fear it the more intense it gets, the more you fear it. What's the difference for you between ego curl up and nothingness?

The nothingness you expirenced could have actaully been a trauma reaction where the ego bascially curls up into a ball and shuts everything out & not Nothingness. Emotions are based on concepts and beliefs, emotions are reactions to the concepts that are constucting your entire sense of self & reality. Torturing the mind? What do you mean? The greatest love you can do for yourself is to realize fully what you really are.

@Leo Gura what about the nothingness part? why even bother to take 5-MEO-DMT and do the work if I can just look at a cactus and the cactus is God.

That is what iam pointing to, that this is nothing cause LITERAL NOTHING does not exist. Atleast thats how i see it. This nothing=something. so they are one and the same. i just mean that existence IS. even if it can " seem" " non existent" it is actually existence. GOD is nothingness in that sense, always been always will be in one way or another.

An Empty Answer "You want me to “say more” about nothingness. Could anything be more paradoxical for the reader than to try to understand “nothing”? Why? Because most people start from the conviction that there is something which does exist; if nothing more, at least “me”. So, you will not likely appreciate nothingness unless you have come to realization through advaita. At least we will, then, begin without the assumption that a “me” really exists. But even for the realized advatin, there will almost certainly be a presumption that “something” exists in the realm of reality. Even “reality”. Advaita points to ajata, and ajata is about nothingness, or emptiness. The Diamond Sutra of Buddhism, points exclusively to it. Hui Neng, the Sixth Chinese Patriarch, declares flatly: ‘There is nothing from the start.” These sources, among others, set your foot on the path, but recognize that most people are then going to immediately be lost. I have written clearly about advaita, and several have understood what I’ve said. I have spoken, to some of these, about what lies beyond the “Absolute,” and a couple have understood. So I will try to explain it, as best I can. The “ultimate condition” (if any) is nothingness, the complete “absence” of anything—no thing, of any possible description. The (approximate) comprehension of this would be to conceive of “emptiness”, as the emptiness of which not anything could be emptied; pure unassociated emptiness, and not even an emptiness which is within some imagined boundaries. The word “void” could be applied; but this “actuality” is not void of something—in any positive sense. So the nothingness of which we speak is totally empty, free of any subtlety which could even be envisioned. Hence there is not anything “within” it that can be subject to any kind of movement, or even change. Not anything can “come from” nothingness, nor “return” to it. It is not the “origin” of anything. In fact, it could not be applicable to say that it exists, or does not exist. Thus we can’t say that this is the “beginning” condition or the “ending” condition. At best, we could say that (if it were “existent”) it would be the ever-present condition. Yet, it is not an abstraction: its presence is “eternal”. “In” its presence are supposed creatures, and the world and universe they seem to inhabit. But all of these supposed things are “in” nothingness. They have not appeared from nothingness, or out of nothingness, or because of nothingness. In fact, they have not actually “appeared”, except as nothingness. The creatures take their reality, their “existence”, for granted; and thus also the reality or existence of the world and its universe—not knowing that they are nothing. The assumption is: ‘There was a time when I didn’t exist, a time when I existed, and a time when I will no longer exist”. But there are no such times. Not anything has ever “existed”, from the standpoint of nothingness. In nothingness, there is no “time”. What makes this so difficult to understand, is that because we say that “I have existed”, we conclude that there is some thing. And indeed we look around and say there are other things, such as a world or a universe. But the presumption that there was a time when I did not exist (or do; or will not exist) is false: no arising, abiding or decaying exists in nothingness. In other words, not anything “happens” in nothingness. “We” are nothing, the “world” is nothing, the “universe” is nothing. In nothingness, there is neither existence nor nonexistence. There is only nothing. From the standpoint of nothingness, no questions can arise. We can not ask for, nor expect, an explanation: not anything ever happens, in nothingness. The value of this understanding is that not anything really matters. Even understanding this does not matter. All is emptiness. That is the “empty” answer. The scriptures speak of one who is in sahaja samadhi as having “no mind” or an “empty mind”. It is this appreciation of nothingness that is referred to. Contemplation on Emptiness Ajata has the same basis as advaita. Instead of pointing out that all things are the Absolute, ajata asks the question, “What is true nature of the Absolute”? The Absolute’s nature is empty of any qualities whatsoever: It is emptiness. Any name which we have given to anything tells us that it is a form, and that means that this form has simply been given its identity by thought. Even the notion of “existence” itself depends upon a mind to give it acknowledgement as a particular quality. But does a mind actually exist? In advaita, we have been saying that all manifestations are the Absolute. In ajata, we’re going further and saying that the Absolute is empty. All manifestations, of whatever kind, are empty. Advaita says that the Absolute is all that is. Ajata says there’s not even the Absolute. Ajata is just a matter of going beyond the idea of the Absolute, recognizing that it is no thing, nothing. Advaita teaches that you are not real. And ajata, that all that is seen is not real either. If the self is you, there is one you. If the mind is you, there are two yous. Can the mind exist without you? To know that the self is empty, and that there is no I, does not prevent the organism from living out its apparent role. To the extent that we have had a dream, we say that it is “real”. But as a tangible form or object, we know that it is not real. When you dream, dream figures are present. But upon waking, you do not inquire into the health or activities of the dream figures. When we know that we do not exist, nor does the world, there is not anything which needs to be changed or improved. If in a dream someone told you “Don’t believe anything you see going on here—it’s all simply being presented to fool you”, would you take this to be the truth? Every thought is about something which the mind has given a name to. What is the value of a thought when we can know that every name is simply an arbitrary creation? When you know that ‘what is’ is not, does this have an important impact on how you live your life? Emptiness is as important a factor in your life, as your life is to you. In advaita, we say you are not who you think you are. In ajata, we say not anything is as it appears to be. Emptiness is not form: it is the condition which indicates that form does not exist as it appears to. There are no forms in our deep sleep. Emptiness is there. We have to use words—which are unreal—to explain emptiness. We must talk about forms, in order to indicate their emptiness. But, in reality, there are no forms. The face in the mirror appears to really be a face. But it is empty of true existence. Foolishly would we attempt to defend its realness. When we speak of emptiness, we are saying that something is empty. That is the role of the “something”, to be empty. But if all things are empty, where is emptiness? Emptiness does not “exist”. The I does not truly exist. It appears to exist. So—from the standpoint of its appearance—we say that it “exists”. But, from the standpoint of truth, we say that it does not exist. There is not anything which your mind is apart from: everything depends on your mind. And yet, your mind is simply one of those things. Empty yourself of all ideas of ‘what is’ and/or ‘what is not’. Where there is no I, there is no other-than-I. As surely as you know that there’s no I, you know that there’s no thing. Advaita says you are the Absolute. When the seeker (you) and the sought (Absolute) disappear into each other, what is left? Nothing. In the same way, ajata’s teaching is that emptiness itself is empty. Even emptiness does not truly exist. This is why, in advaita, it’s said that there is not anything to realize. There is not any thing that is real. And what is not real cannot arise to become existent. Anything which could arise into existence must be caused. But all causes themselves are empty, as are any other phenomenon. Only if phenomena were real would we need to explain its “existence” or lack of it. The philosophy of nihilism does not apply here. There is no truly existent self that can hold any view. In advaita, we often speak of the dualities, such as me and you, right and wrong. In ajata, no dualities exist as real, from the start. A sky must exist in a space. A space needs something to define it. Each is dependent upon another for its reality. As independent realities, neither can exist. Except for there being the cause of form, Form would not be seen. Except for there being what we call “form,” The cause of form would not appear either. —Nagarjuna Taking yourself to be more than an appearance, you assume your world is real also, and more than an appearance. But a non-existent you can only be seeing a non-existent world. We establish a presumed universe, and then ask “How can we say that this is a void?” Impermanence means that everything is in change constantly, moment by moment. No thing, in fact truly exists as a fixed “thing”, at any time. If there is a time that had a beginning somewhere, then time can come to an end. Time, then, is not a lasting reality. Since you do not exist, you cannot ask, “How am I here?”, because in reality you aren’t. You appear to be real, to an unreal you—as the you in a dream takes its reality for granted. If you were in deep sleep, where “you” and your “mind” do not appear;, and the heart stopped: would you know that you had died? Come to know that there is no death, and therefore nothing after it (especially a sensate “individual”) and you will end such questions as “what comes after death?” If there were a non-emptiness of emptiness, it would be where we impute any qualities to emptiness. An actor can have the knowledge that he is not real, and that the character whose role he is playing has never been, and yet he can play out the role he is living as his life. When you “get” emptiness, you need not concern yourself about anything that preceded emptiness. The world is a dream. You who say it exists is saying so within that dream. A figure in a dream is entertained by a magic-show world. What becomes of the dream figure and the world when the dream ends? When you close your eyes for the last time, this will all disappear. The slate will be wiped clean. You may say, “But it will be there for others”. No: the others disappear with you, not anything remains. So is the world real or did it appear when you opened your eyes—and ends when you die? If the world is not real, are you real? Any answers we can get to erroneous questions, will be erroneous answers. The world is an illusion. Yet here it is—as an illusion. You say the mind is real because we both experience it. No, if it were real we would both have the same experience of the mind. And if the world were real, we would both have the same experience of the world. Anything that’s real must be real to both of us in the same way. Since there is no self, there is no mind. And because there is no mind, there is no perception or consciousness of a world or universe. There are, therefore, no legitimate questions about anything. “No mind” is the consequence of the realization of emptiness. Emptiness tells us that there’s not anything we need to get. Anything we could get would be empty. The getter itself is empty. Where there is nothing we need to get, there is nothing we can become. All that could remain is to be as you are—empty. When you get to nothing, there’s no further to go. When you can end all of your problems—as well as the world’s—peacefully, why concern yourself with how that came about? Do the wise abide somewhere between self and no-self? The wise do not abide. If you insist on having a meaningful explanation, then you’re not understanding emptiness. “Phenomenon” are not empty because of emptiness. Emptiness is what phenomenon are. “Nothing can come from nothing.” —Lucret - Ajata Project Robert Wolfe

That’s not what you’re pointing to imo. You are using the accepted definition of nothingness which does not align with what he is saying as he is using a completely different definition. “so truth is that everything IS and will always BE.” Dude, go grab a piece of paper and a lighter. Take the THING that IS your piece of paper. Right now, it’s a thing. Right now, it IS. Use your lighter to catch the paper on fire. Soon you’ll have some ashes in front of you. Is that thing that was the piece of paper still IS’ing anymore? No. The piece of paper is completely eradicated from your direct experience. There is a different thing now IS’ing in front of you. The ashes. Is the paper still IS’ing out there in some unverifiable spirit realm designated for college-ruled papers only? Maybe. That’s the only shot the paper has at still BE’ing. You’ll likely never know one way or the other. If everything, literally separate the two words for simplicity in understanding, there’s every and thing. Every = all. Thing = any object, person, place, etc. Every thing will certainly not always BE. The very nature of the reality is for things to constantly be morphing into other things which constantly makes the previous forms no longer existent. Existence IS. Yes, you’re right. There’s no opposite to it? There’s no way to verify this either way for nonexistence literally, by definition, is the state of not IS’ing.

From the perspective of a nondual experience, you’re right, but these insights lose all value once you use the English language to describe them. In the framework of the English language, which we are using, the statement Experience = Nothingness means as much as taco cat = fat bear. By definition in English, neither is true or makes any sense as things that are clearly not the same are being said to be the same. Now I’m seeing more clearly why spirituality does not make any sense yet is the most true thing there is. No wonder Zen Buddhists used koans to create enlightenment in students. “What is Buddha?” and its answer, “Three pounds of flax.” Makes just as much sense as Experience = Nothingness

Thats what iam pointing to, just that the NOTHINGNESS iam speaking about, is non existent. so the Truth would be that, TRULY NON EXISTENT is not possible. so truth is that everything IS and will always BE.' then we can conclude that nothing=something. Existence IS and there is no opposite to it, non existence exists as non existent.

I think you are spot on except for this bit: “So to me it makes more sense thqt conciousness can assume the form of literal nothingness but it can also assume thr form of Infinite Imagination and infinite Mind.” Edit: Of course Leo beats me to this by 1 fucking minute while I’ve been typing out my response for some time lol. You say nothingness has form here. You say that consciousness (which is something) can be nothingness. Think man. That makes absolutely no sense. A form is something. A shape is something. The shape of consciousness changes constantly, but it does always have a shape nonetheless. If you’re in a box, the shape of consciousness is of a human being in the dark in a box. You also started talking about how consciousness cannot be nothingness as consciousness is something. You’re right. I’ve had the insight that this (existence) is nothing. This insight is essentially a word game and nothing else no matter how real it seemed to me, and it appears some others, at the time of the insight. Of course you can experience consciousness free from any beliefs or language used to describe it, and in this state it doesn’t really matter which label (something vs. nothing) you apply to it. The problem comes when you try to use tools like language or thought to describe that state. The tools simply cannot get the job done adequately. Go watch/practice Leo’s latest YouTube video if you want to understand this. It will get you into the state I’m referring to. Anyone arguing for the verifiable existence of nothingness, an experience of nothingness, or emptiness is clearly not using these words properly. Right now, we are having a discussion using the English language, so we have to be cognizant of that. We can’t use words in ways that are against their denotations and connotations and expect anyone to get value from that. The only time that the statement “this is nothing” is true is when the statement “this is something” is equally as true. This occurs in the state I referred to without beliefs, thoughts, labels, or anything else being used as a backstory or explanation of consciousness. As soon as you apply the backstory that we’re currently using to have this discussion, the only true thing to say is that there is always something and never nothing as far as we will ever be able to verify with our direct experience. When you experience what you interpret to be nothingness, there is always something, and that thing is experience. You cannot verify something without using some degree of experience, so there could be such a thing as nothingness. The problem is that no being in this reality or any reality will be able to verify nothingness. In conclusion, nothingness can only exist in our imagination, and even then, that thing that we are imagining is not nothingness. It’s the imagination of what we think nothingness might be like. In the past I’ve suggested on here that nonexistence or nothingness is actually the only place where truth can be found. This can be realized when you ask yourself the question “Is Truth static or is it always changing?” Jed McKenna argues that truth is that that does not change. This seems self-evident to many people. If this is correct, nonexistence is the perfect, unadulterated Truth for nothing does not change. There is nothing that can be changed when there is only nothing, but this is only ever a version of armchair philosophy rather than something that can be verified with direct experience. If your answer to the question above is that truth is always changing, then go no further. You’re already swimming in Truth. Consciousness is always changing, and it certainly exists as you are consciousness. Therefore, my ultimate conclusion is that the argument for consciousness being Truth wins as it can be armchair philosophized as well as experienced directly whereas true or total nothingness can never be experienced.

Here you've already fucked up. Infinite Nothingness is NOT zero colors and zero consciousness. It is precisely all colors and your present experience. Stop thinking that Nothingness is lack of experience. Experience = Nothingness Nothingness is identical to somethingness. If you distinguish nothing from something, that is duality.

Knowledge of Solipsism, existence, or not existence and your parents comes from so called “I”. The biggest issue is belief of “I”. Enlightenment is dropping the “I”. So there is no problem too, do you see? Definitely. Whatever “you” “believe” and “experience “ thats “your truth”. However, enlightenment does not depend on personal experience nor belief, it is identical for everyone. Nothingness can not “be experienced”, can just “be”. Therefore identical for “everyone “ and doesn’t depend on experience or belief. Just go deeper. “You” will love it?❤️ As you see, you are contradicting yourself. Additionally, there is no such a thing as exist or not exist. Have a direct experience Brother.

Existence = conciousness = experience The experience and experiencer is the same. But the thing is, ive also recognized that iam part of GOD and at some level of " my self" im 100 % formless GOD which is imagining every fucking thing possible. GOD MIND = infinite imagination GOD True state = pure empty conciousness. so nothing = everything. because conciousness is " nothing" it can BE ALL. this is from my own direct experience. But im not at that awakening depth that you are at brother James. But like Leo says, there is an incredible amount of " awakenings" " states" of conciousness. and it is possible because conciousness is that which can display anything. But i still seen that GOD is reality.. the best word i can use for it , is GOD. 1 infinite being= nothingness= pregnant with all that IS. it is literaly incomprehensible to us how truly powerful GOD is.. God is all, both the " experience" and the thing which is experiencing.. on all levels, on nothing and infinite mind realization, it goes on forever. and why we can realize this different facets of GOD and awakening is because we are IT. We are an " neuron" in gods "brain" As above so below.. sure this sounds alot of mental maturbation and im open to being wrong about alot of it. but my awakenings is the Truth for me. and this is what ive been experiencing.

Empty conciousness is not nothingness. Nothing is no existence, no conciousness. So the nothing don't exist, because always it's an empty conciousness, a potentiality

You think, “you” have a “form” and in “universe” now? Do you think there is such a thing as colours, shapes, sounds, tastes or thoughts? Instead with naming and labeling the “ words”. Even saying to “words” to words, “thoughts “ to thoughts (because still naming and labeling happens)? These are not conversations brother, there is no such a thing as exist or non exist, life or death. How do you know these are conversations, who teach you that? Is it something you have learned or directly experienced? Have direct experience, never believe something and be stuck with something that you have learned! Go more deeper, believe me if “you” get what “I” mean by, your mind will be blown away to point that, you had never one? you realize your birth was just a thought as universe, mind, infinite, world. And you realize that, WE HAVE NEVER BORN. Thats what awakening is. You are “nothing” and is now. As always been, so called before birth, after death and now. Nothing has never happened. “You= Pure, empty consciousness= Nothingness “ has never even moved. ? go deeper “you” would love it. Much love to you ❤️ Peace!

So this nothing that you speak of, what does that mean? it does mean that everything is nothing and this is non existence? I know that this is just words brother for nothing. But surely nothingness is THIS, but it is not the same as the Nothing im speaking of, the nothing im speaking of is non existent. to the point that the james character wouldn't have the ability to wake up to the fact that this is nothing. NOTHING is nothing and this is not nothing brother. Sure remove every label and so forth and it feels like nothing. But nothing there wouldn't be a forum that you can answer me on, you get me? So yeah sure GOD is nothingness as is everything else, but it still has potential for manifestation, we can play the nothing game whole day and say that everything is nothing but to me that is not the ultimate Truth. In your other posts you said that thoughts and learning is existence if i remember it correctly, then why does a thought arise in this nothingness? Can you see where im coming from here? Infinity and nothingness is the same thing? How can nothingness give rise to thoughts/colours shapes sound taste touch? Ofcourse what im pointing to is a learned thing, but it is still there. Why can we have realization of infinite god mind? Fuc,k the words im using and see what iam pointing to. why do something like infinite imagination exist? im starting to feel that his nothing you speak of is the ground of being but is not TRUE NOTHINGNESS, cause TRUE NOTHINGNESS IS ALWAYS NOTHINGNESS, and you have lived a life up to the point where you recognize that everything is nothing, you didn't think that nothing was during your life until awakening. Can you feel me? You are stuck in ur nothing brother. thats the truth.

Nothing is infinite, but at the same time your car. But infinite is not your car or your car is not infinite ? nothingness is beyond the infinite, it is all there is?

@Adamq8 infinite nothingness, infinite mind, makes you confuse it seems . ? Nothingness is “everything, your car, tree, pen, universe, world, infinite, including these sentences”. If everything is nothing, how can such a thing as everything or infinite? Therefore, there is no such a thing as everything, anything, or infinite. Just nothingness. Because if you consider as something or infinite, your car and pen can not be identical. Common point is thats makes them identical, because they are all nothing. Therefore , they are aint car, pen or infinite. Just “Nothing “.

Exactly! Infinite nothingness is outside of infinity and outside of infinity there is not a possibility to experience anything nor even know an experience of infinite nothingness. SO for people to claim that TRUE NOTHINGNESS is true, they would not be able to report back such a thing. cause conciousness and everything else would be gone like it never even existed. And existence can't really arise out of nothingness. Sure existence can be 0 and it contains every possibility of numbers. but 0 is not nothingness, it is zero. Zero is infinity.

The only conclusion for me is that infinite nothingness does not exist. The infinite nothing that is experienced isnt really nothing, it is something, consciousness, whatever, because if it were nothing, it could not be experienced. nothing is non-existence, no experience

God is Nothingness. There is no contradiction.

There is no problem (beyond one's habituated clinging to psychologically referenced rational dualistic intellectualism), because the actuality is that nothing doesn't exist. "Absence having no precedent" means there is no "nothing". There is no "it" to have something (or not) beyond (it). This is not a philosophical word-game. What this proves (by my description) is that nothing (no things) and not-nothing (things) are BOTH part of the dual nature of the created karmic realm and do not imply any aspect of intrinsic reality. Why? Because thingness and nothingness are both illusion. This means they do not exist in terms of absolute nature. In terms of the Absolute, there is no relative factor. That's why it is called the Absolute. The homeland of nothing whatsoever is void of "nothing" as well. The absence of absence is what proves the reality of enlightenment in terms of the absolute. In the ancient Sanskrit description of Shunyata (emptiness), found in the classic prose of the Heart Sutra, there is a mantra which surpasses the philosophic emphasis implied by the literal meaning encompassed by the term "shunyata": [Om] gate gate paragate parasamgate [bodhi svaha]. This translates as gone, gone, beyond gone, gone beyond. Obviously, there is no limit imposed by "emptiness" at all, much less by the "unlimited." Why? Emptiness, as such, does not exist in reality. Why? Emptiness as a factor of the Absolute would imply non-emptiness as well, and this simply is not the nature of reality, nor its essence. In this sense: "Beyond" is a relative term. The "unlimited" is not a thing. The absolute is actually experienced as is, being your selfless immortal beginningless aware nature without inside or outside. There is no nothing to begin with. Really. Reality has no limit. "The limit of the limitless" refers only to the inconceivable capacity of the nature of human awareness, which is unborn. True, there is no dimension— but your conception of this seems to be an actual point in space. "The unlimited", to use your term, has no distance. In other words, space is not a matter of breadth or expanse, nor is it (I can assure you) cramped. Why? There is no inside or outside. Aside from the nature of inconceivability, undifferentiated unity is just that: complete, whole, perfectly formless, beyond dimensionality. You will just have to experience it for yourself. Therefore: is trapped in intellectual reasoning which is simply the wrong tool to encompass the fact that there is no thing. "No thing" includes its dualistically implied nothing, as well. There is no thing. There is no dimension and no thing without dimension, no emptiness, no point, no beyond the imaginary point, etcetera. I only mentioned the reference to "beyond the limit of the limitless" so people would not be mistaken that the homeland of nothing whatsoever, in terms of "sudden enlightenment" is the ultimate limit of the absolute. Spontaneous selfless insight into the nature of the absolute is not defined (not limited) by sudden realization. The limitlessness of human being's selfless spiritual nature implies a profundity beyond the personality's psychological apparatus, but the extent of the spiritual (nonpsychological) nature of human being is only a very small and inconsequential aspect of the inconceivable nature of the Absolute. There is no end to delusion, but the absolute has no beginning because the Causeless is nonoriginated. THIS is your nature. It is necessary to dispense with intellectualism in order to experience reality— both before and in the aftermath of the sudden. When the psychological apparatus of the being that is going to die finally craps out, there you are, selflessly aglow. The whole point of authentic teaching divulging authentic practice of the Celestial Mechanism is that (hopefully) you will experience the absolute nature of reality (being your own mind) BEFORE you die. When you die, it's too late. Anybody can see the absolute when they die, but seeing reality requires that you are alive in your body and functioning in everyday ordinary situations in order to absorb delusion's unrefined potential for further refinement void of intellectualism by virtue of having awakened to your inherent enlightening function in the first place!! As for: As a manner of speaking, it is said that "the one bifurcates into the two and the ten thousand things manifest therefrom, but, in reality, the absolute does not precede the relative in terms of time. If it did, the absolute would be relative to time, and it's not. In terms of the absolute, there is no time in the same way there is no emptiness (no nothing). In the same way, the absolute and the relative are the same in terms of reality: they don't exist. That's why existence (illusion) is a mystery. It just is. The absolute is not a mystery. That's why it is said that Suchness is neither ordinary nor holy. In the same way, Dogen said "wood does not turn into ashes." Wood is wood and ashes are ashes. Dogen's (or my) writing may not help matters, but the fact is, the absolute and the relative are the same, not different, in terms of reality. How else would one endeavor to absorb potential (uncreated) from within the midst of delusion (created)? If it weren't the case, there would be no basis in reality for authentic teaching having been left behind by all prior illuminates in order to keep the knowledge alive. The real is only found by virtue of the false. They are the same for those who see reality. Those who see reality, see reality because… This means that by virtue of the real knowledge of "nothingness" being identical to "something" without generational attributes, one transcends creation. Since you yourself see in terms of karmic duality being generational birth and death, you follow creation along in terms of the laws of karma. What you see is what you get because karma and liberation are both a matter of the nature of one's selfless clarity in terms of pure awareness (or not). The clear rises and the opaque sinks. Awareness does as awareness is. If you don't see reality you go along with illusion. It's just the way it is and no one knows why…❤︎ I failed to acknowledge my appreciation of your deep comments contributing to this thread at the beginning of this post, Breakingthewall— before creating the first quote-box. I don't know how to place text above the quote-box once I create it~ I'm sorry!! …and you are most welcome, Awayfarer❤︎!! ed note: add 2nd half of 7th paragraph