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@Cykaaaa You're welcome. I just discovered this one. You may like it as well. http://www.consciousnessandbiofeedback.org/diagram/ States of Consciousness Diagram A Map of Intrapersonal, Extrapersonal, and Transpersonal Consciousness Seven Major Levels of Consciousness, Substance, and Energy Physical matter exists on a continuum with spirit. Thus matter may be considered to be the densest form of spirit, or conversely, spirit may be considered to be the subtlest form of matter. The Indian sage Sri Aurobindo similarly said that every prakriti (substance) has its purusha (subtle essence or soul) and, further, that each purusha is in turn a prakriti in relation to a yet subtler purusha. In other words, behind each form is a subtle essence, and behind that is a progression of yet-subtler essences, ad infinitum. From this perspective, the terms matter, energy, and spirit refer to a single continuum, and may be considered interchangeable. This parallels the concept in modern physics that matter and energy are equivalent, and exist on a spectrum of energies that range from low to high frequency. Hinduism similarly teaches that all manifestations, physical and non-physical, are manifestations of mind. From this perspective, mind or consciousness is equivalent to both energy and matter. From an esoteric perspective there is a spectrum of seven levels of consciousness/substance/energy. These range from the densest, which is the physical/etheric level, to the subtlest, which are levels of spirit. These seven levels are mapped in the accompanying States of Consciousness Diagram. Each of the seven levels, labeled E1 to E7 in the diagram, may be subdivided into seven sublevels. E1 to E7 are levels of energy/substance/consciousness within both the microcosm – the individual – and the macrocosm. Though E7 is higher on the diagram than E1, it is important to remember that “higher” on the diagram is not a geographic concept; it doesn’t describe an altitude or a place. Instead, “higher” is a metaphor for subtler. All of the states of consciousness/energy/substance represented as Levels on the Diagram coexist and intermingle with each other. They are inherent in one another and inseparable. Details of the Seven Levels of Consciousness, Substance, and Energy Level E1 is the physical/etheric level. Within the physical/etheric realm the densest three sublevels are the solid, liquid, and gaseous phases of matter. Subtler than or “above” physical matter in the diagram are what are known as the four ethers. The densest ether is ordinary electricity. The other ethers are various forms of subtle energy, also known by such names as prana or chi. The four ethers may be referred to as either etheric energy or etheric “substance,” since energy is a form of substance, and substance is a form of energy. The etheric substance known as electricity consists of electrons, and electrons are an inherent component of the atoms that comprise physical substance. Likewise, the three subtler forms of etheric energy are inherent components of physical substance and, under normal conditions, etheric energy is inseparable from physical substance. E2, the next major level, is emotional substance. This level is also called the astral level. The substances/energies of Levels E2 to E7 are as real as physical substance, though less dense. While we think of emotions as insubstantial, we easily feel them in our bodies as well as feeling them psychologically; thus they have physical manifestations which we easily perceive. Seers who are sensitive to etheric, emotional, and mental energies can experience them synesthetically as having visual form, or can feel them kinesthetically as heat, cold, vibration, or as a field that is palpable in much the same way that static electricity can be felt as a palpable field. The seven sublevels of E2 vary from extremely unrefined to extremely refined, sublime emotions. The lowest and most coarse emotional realm is Hell. The highest astral sublevel has heavenly characteristics, and is one in the hierarchy of seven heavens in the Kaballah, but it is much less refined than the ultimate heaven. E3 is the level of mental substance. Thoughtforms exist in this realm, and are made of mental substance or energy. The highest sublevels of E3 correspond with highly refined and subtle mental states; advanced mathematicians and physicists tune into these levels in their work. The third highest mental sublevel is a level of abstract and creative thinking for figuring out how to do things that are known, such as to write a novel, create a business, or design a bridge. It is a Thomas Edison-like level of abstract mind and creation. The second highest mental sublevel is the realm of grand master chess players, theoretical mathematicians and physicists, creators of that which never has come before, innovators who materialize visualizations. It is a rarefied, Nicola Tesla-like level of abstract mind and creation. Within an individual, the highest and subtlest mental level is the so-called High Self. It serves as the bridge or intermediary between the personal levels of the individual and the transpersonal or spiritual levels. Levels E1 to E3, being the physical, emotional, and mental levels of reality, are the realm in which the personal self exists. The personal self is an aggregate of physical, emotional, and mental elements; it is literally made of E1 to E3 substances. That which exists at E1 to E3 is subject to change, and is not permanent. Thus the physical-emotional-mental aggregation that is the personal self is mortal. After death of the body, the soul finds itself in the astral or astral-mental realm. In Tibetan Buddhism this after-death realm is called the bardo. The bardo consists of many gradations or densities of emotional and mental substance into which the soul metaphorically “rises” like a balloon until it reaches that level of the Earth’s emotional-mental milieu which corresponds with the density or subtlety of the soul’s emotions and thoughts, conscious and unconscious, during its just-completed life on earth. In contrast to E1 to E3, Levels E4 to E7 are increasingly subtle levels of spirit. They are thus transpersonal. They correspond with Heaven. In Hinduism and the western esoteric tradition, the transpersonal aspects of the self are considered the True Self. That which exists at transpersonal levels is beyond the realm of time and change, and is eternal. (“Eternal” is a tricky concept here. It doesn’t mean lasting forever since this is a state that is beyond time. “Without beginning or end” is closer to being accurate. It would also be relatively correct to simply say about this level that “I Am,” or “It Is” rather than saying that “It is eternally.”) In Hinduism and the western esoteric tradition, the transpersonal aspects of the self are considered the True Self. The Cosmos Levels E1 to E3 are comprised of the substances – physical, emotional, and mental – of which the personal self, the microcosm, is made. From an esoteric perspective, the macrocosm – the cosmos, the known universe – is composed of the same three types of substance. Inherent within physical substance are astral and mental levels of energy/substance. Thus the esoteric “cosmos” includes more than the physicists’ cosmos, which is only physical, E1. The entire spectrum from E1 through E7 constitutes “all that is.” Elmer Green refers to this totality as the Kosmos. The cosmos includes the levels of reality within which the microcosm, the personal self, exists. In contrast, Dr. Green’s term Kosmos includes both personal and transpersonal levels. In Tibetan Buddhism, the personal level, E1 to E3, is the realm of the four bardos: the bardo during birth, the bardo during life, and the bardo during dying, and the bardo after death or between incarnations. Again, the bardos are equal to the personal or cosmic levels of reality, while spiritual levels are transpersonal, transcosmic, and transbardo. Dream consciousness, the collective unconscious, and the after-death bardo are all unconscious realms, that is, outside of ordinary waking awareness. These three terms describe approximately the same realms of consciousness, occupying the same territory on the Diagram. Dreams may potentially occur on any level of consciousness, personal or transpersonal, though most dreams concern personal issues and thus focus in the personal levels of the diagram, E1 to E3. Likewise, the collective unconscious includes all seven levels of the diagram; however the levels of it which an individual may glimpse will tend to correlate with the level of consciousness to which they have developed–again personal for most people. Meanwhile, the after death bardo is the portion of the collective unconscious at the personal levels, E1 to E3. The after-death bardo is mainly centered on the astral realm. Since the bardo is, by definition, the personal realm, and since fully enlightened individuals have developed to transpersonal levels, the consciousness of such individuals is not “in” the bardo after death, i.e. their consciousness is not focused in the personal/ bardo realms after death. Instead, their consciousness of focused at Level E4 or higher. The Boundaries of the Personal Self and Conscious Awareness In the States of Consciousness Diagram, the individual is represented by the cylinder that runs from top to bottom in the middle of the diagram. Levels E1 to E7 are the Kosmic ground within which the individual, represented as a cylinder, exists as figure. Near the bottom of the cylinder, the Diagram shows a drawing of a brain. Because the brain is a physical structure, it is drawn entirely within the physical level, E1. Partly superimposed on the drawing of the brain is a structure that is shaped vaguely like a light bulb. This represents the approximate boundaries of conscious awareness in a typical human. Conscious awareness is drawn as narrower at the physical level, since we are unaware of much of what goes on in our bodies. It is wider at the emotional and mental levels, where we normally tend to be more consciously aware. The area of the diagram outside the light bulb shape represents that which is outside of conscious awareness (for a majority of people). The macrocosm, which is outside the individual cylinder, and the spiritual levels of the individual are outside of ordinary conscious awareness. Though the brain may be considered the seat of consciousness, we are unconscious of the substance of the brain itself, thus the area of conscious awareness overlapping the brain on the Diagram is small. Porous Ego Boundaries Allow Perception of Extrapersonal Information The ego or personality or ego may be defined as that which separates the individual from the environment. The Diagram represents this separation of self from non-self with solid lines in the wall of the cylinder at the personal levels of the diagram, E1 to E3. The solid lines symbolize the fact that, under ordinary circumstances at least, extrapersonal information does not cross the boundary of the ego or personality. Individuals are aware of what is in their own minds and bodies, but are not psychically aware of what is in the minds and bodies of others, nor aware of information from distant locations in the world. (Paranormal perceptions such as subtle energy awareness, ESP, or clairvoyance are exceptions to this. Individuals with such perceptual ability would be represented on the diagram with breaks in the lines of the cylinder at personal levels. Such breaks would be few or many, depending on the degree of paranormal awareness.) At transpersonal levels the walls of the cylinder are drawn with broken lines symbolizing that a separate self does not exist at those levels and that, in the absence of ordinary ego boundaries, information can be exchanged. Thus, if a person is developed to the Lotus Level within E4, i.e. is fully enlightened, they might have extrasensory awarenesses about their environment or other people. Of people who are not enlightened, a percentage have gaps in their ego boundaries for a variety of reasons. As a result they may perceive extrapersonal information including, for example, emotions of other people or experiences of “the other side” or the bardo. This can potentially occur in cases of: psychologically healthy people who happen to be psychic some people who practice certain forms of meditation people with brain deterioration due to dementia people with serious physical illnesses of many kinds which compromise brain function people under the influence of mind-altering drugs people with psychosis, which is a decompensation of ego boundaries people whose ego boundaries are incompletely developed, as in autism or severe personality disorders. The High Self The High Self exists at Level 21, the highest mental level and the highest of the personal sublevels. Though technically within the personal realm, the High Self is refined enough that its energies or communications typically seem to the ego to be spiritual in nature. People may interpret such input as being from God. The High Self’s function is, in part, that of guardian angel of the personality. High Self energy is associated with the seventh chakra, at the crown of the head. Causal Levels Levels 19, 20, and 21 are shown on the Diagram as “Causal,” meaning that they cause manifestations at lower levels. Specifically, incarnation into levels E1 to E3 is stimulated from the causal levels. The skandhas, which are the reservoirs of personal characteristics that are transmitted from one incarnation to the next, exist at the causal levels. In the same way that physical DNA encodes and carries physical characteristics from one generation to the next, the skandhas act as “spiritual DNA,” transmitting certain personal characteristics from one incarnation to the next. The Antahkarana and the Abyss The Diagram shows a narrow channel at Level 21, at the top of the bulb-shaped conscious awareness. Above this is a gap, and above the gap is the Lotus (represented in the Diagram as a lotus flower below the word “LOTUS”). The narrow channel represents the antahkarana which, in Hinduism, is a metaphoric conduit through which spirit connects with the ego. The antahkarana is within the levels of the ego, rather than being transpersonal. It is symbolized in Genesis as Jacob’s ladder, which connected heaven and earth. In dreams, the antahkarana may be represented as a narrow passageway or a dark interior space through which the dreamer ascends, emerging through an opening at the top into light. The dreamer may emerge onto the top of a structure, such as a building, and there may be no means of going higher. This represents the furthest upper limit of the personal self. The story of Marty in The Ozawkie Book of the Dead describes a dream containing antahkarana symbolism. Though an ego focused at this highest mental level is highly developed and refined, it may seem to the ego that an unbridgeable gap exists between itself and spiritual levels. This gap is shown on the Diagram between the antahkarana and the Lotus. The gap is sometimes referred to esoterically as “the Abyss.” The word abyss means an unfathomable gap or immeasurably deep gulf. In dreams the abyss may be represented as some form of gap or expanse which appears too formidable to be crossed (until the individual has further developed spiritually). Elmer Green’s dream of the swans contains imagery of an abyss which he and Alyce are able to cross. The Lotus At the spiritual levels of the individual are two foci, the Lotus and the Jewel. These terms are drawn from the Tibetan Buddhist and Hindu traditions, which refer to them in the widely known phrase Om, Mani Padme Hum (which is often translated as Hail to the Jewel in the Lotus). Great teachers who have achieved full Enlightenment, that is, who have released all physical, emotional, and mental attachments, have their locus of consciousness at the level of the Lotus or higher. Enlightened individuals, being unattached to that which is personal, are able to manifest their personality at times when it is needed in some of their interactions with people, but can voluntarily drop the persona at other times. Lotus consciousness, while impersonal, is a locus of unconditional love and compassion. In the Kabbalah it correlates with the Seventh Heaven, known as the Heaven of Heavens. Lotus energy is transmitted through the eighth chakra, which is located above the head. The Lotus is located at Level 22 in the Diagram, the lowest sublevel of the transpersonal realms. It may be thought of as the spirit behind the High Self. The Jewel The spirit behind the Lotus is the Jewel, located at Level 42, the highest sublevel of E6. It is also known by the Western term monad. While the Lotus is a locus of unconditional love, the Jewel is a locus of spiritual will. Its energy is transmitted through the ninth chakra which is located above the head, above the eighth chakra. TransKosmic Levels According to teachers whom Sri Aurobindo consulted, there is an infinite progression of levels of consciousness/energy/substance beyond E7. Teachers or spiritual forces/entities above E7 are so subtle that they are not able to make contact with the human realm, that is, the Kosmos. Levels beyond E7 are transKosmic and are not shown on the Diagram. http://www.consciousnessandbiofeedback.org/diagram/

@remember Siddartha Gautama/ The 'Buddha' was probably a real man who was born in Lumbini in Nepal. 'Buddha' - is an honorific title given to the one who has achieved full enlightenment. The Buddhists have their own complex criterias. I think ' Buddha' might also be a spiritual body. But I am not sure what that means. Sure his spirit lives on. But I still I don't think I fully understand.

Do you know why i really love godel even more than spiral dynamics. its because of this simple logic. If everything in absolute infinity is infinite, then what is the only harmful idea the most harmful idea is "who am i" see if a person asks "who am i" the axioms on which their argument stands becomes nullified, their axioms get taken down one by one, i am experience, i am direct experience, i am sensations ,i am feeling , i am body , i am mind. In this sense you are left with a direct experience axiom. Which is great. But what i think godel didn't realise was genious about his work, is that when eternity started. I.e the conception of absolute infinity. We'll take this as the big bang to make things easier. See what was happening, the absolute inifnity was asking who am i ? with its very sensations of itself, i am this, i am this .. and all ideas end up destroying themselves. When i originally inspected godels theroam. I never believed any enlightened being had obtained full enlightenment. Simply by the two phrases, How do they know what they know is true and Who says that they are correct. Then an insight instantly shot into my head. All these enlightened beings were trying to do was again answer the question "who am i" its was the same thing. So i said, its progressive, the ideas are progressive because the older ones are not nullified. For example humans as a whole, it works at a collective identity. See we thought we were human beings with slave owners that became our identity. So now our axiom has moved, humans as a collective have identified themselves as not slave owners now. See its done, we don't rehash ideas. Like nobody is going to go to wallmart to the slave section and buy a whore to fuck. See it just doesn't happen. That's because that identity is already worn out. It didn't fit resonate with the true value of "who am i" so i realised in infinite possibilties everything is positive, you can't say its not because it is what it is. But this is misguiding, in infinite possibilities there has to be an idea that destroys its own self. This is by far then the most important path in absolute infinity. But i never knew what that looked like until i got the idea, that as a whole.. absolute infinity would one day stumble onto the idea by randomly. because its not the human who is asking who am i? it is absolute infinity who is asking who am i? at this time anything was a possibility for me. So i said to myself, if everyone actualised and became enlightened this would kill abslute infinity because there would be no witnessing it. But it didn't seem viable so i dismissed it. absolute infinity is itself asking who am i metaphysically during its direct experience. See even the nirvanic state is itself asking what it is, but this gave me insight into questioning enlightenment because god is a logical being. it may seem illogical to a human, but its just god-logic, its rational aswell. its human logic that extends to infinity. God-logic is just absolute truth. and all god-logic is relative. What happened was god was trying to self-actualise his complete self through us. So the logic for myself prove to stand that what godel proved unbeknownst to him was that if god self-actualised itself, it would cause its inherant death, because it would no longer have the purpose of life, which was asking who i am. This way it stands to reason that enlightenment gives you peace of mind because you have dreamt up yourself killing yourself. In other words is, you think you have answered the question who am i? and you you rest it to the side. Which is why this question "who am i " , is so problematic and tricky and all at the same time the most dangerous question, that could ever be asked in absolute infinity. So god was self-actualising his own death through all of us who tried to become enlightened. At the time, i thought it best not to describe this to the forum. Due to emotional baggage that it would realise. The irony being enlightened beings thought they were doing good by becoming enlightened. But what they were doing was actually desctruction. it was god destroying the "idea" of god itself because god was all things. So collectively throughout humanity who ever has stumbled upon spirituality has partipated in the kiling of absolute infinity at the cost of our own happiness and pleasure. Could it be any other way? absolutely not as godel showed an idea even that idea that god has an an image of himself as absolute infinity in god's mind. Will eventually kill its own self because all ideas and beliefs can not be dispelled without proof as he showed. In this way, the only bible that has ever been written that is the absolute truth is godels incompleteness theoream. it encapsulates the whole of reality into one model. Contradictory to what the spiritualist believed as their construct of reality was also a design. Part of the self-destruction pattern of trying to actualise itself.

Thoughts are malleable, they have no frame of reference in the bigger picture because emptiness or "pure love" has no reference itself. however, in dualistic and experiential terms it does i.e teachings and scriptures What does this mean? it means that a single distinction, has to be a single connection between two points of references. IS and IS NOT, that is how we get experience. A thought can only be IS or IS NOT , it can not be IS and IS NOT. So now we actually have two reference points of thoughts, IS and IS NOT , to which we then say [ IS- IS or IS - IS NOT] and [ IS NOT - IS or IS NOT - IS NOT] which is suitable to be expressed in direct experience as [ IS - IS and IS - IS NOT ] AND [IS NOT- IS AND IS NOT - IS NOT] confirming both points of reference are points of references and the distinction to BE a distinction which can be IS and IS not identically. because the points of references of thought was IS or IS NOT. these are when we use words, like real etc.. etc.. so thoughts are malleable as long as experience IS and IS NOT. it can have any frame of reference because all frames of reference of thoughts can be [Is- IS OR IS -IS NOT] and [ IS NOT - IS or IS NOT - IS NOT] why is this true? because what i've said is [Is- IS OR IS -IS NOT] and [ IS NOT - IS or IS NOT - IS NOT] , can be either true or false the moral of the story all thought is interconnected because all distinctions are interconnected why is this the case? because DISTINCTION [Is- IS OR IS -IS NOT] and [ IS NOT - IS or IS NOT - IS NOT] ONE DISTINCTION [Is- IS OR IS -IS NOT] and [ IS NOT - IS or IS NOT - IS NOT] and direct experience IS and IS NOT as well as NO direct experience IS and IS NOT and we come to the point that no pointer can ever point to what its pointing to explained in mathematics and English and logic LOLL but you see, how do we say that this very message IS and IS NOT in dualistic terms and not words and that's why Full enlightenment is a very rare thing, on top of not being able to point you to the pointer how does the pointer point to the pointer as THE pointer ? A very important lesson for everybody. So to directly answer your question "How interconnected are thoughts" --- ABSOLUTELY The invisible paradox "Direct experience = is and is not ... Direct experience = [ ] "

Yes the truth , what more could you want ? It’s in the name, “the absolute truth” and then from gaining the absolute truth You get to die instead of being reincarnated again these are the two things you get the absolute truth includes - all knowledge about why you built reality this way - all knowledge bout how you built reality this way and why it can’t be otherwise - all exestential answers answered - the truth about enlightenment - the absolute truth - safety in grounding your reality until you decide to consciously die - no doubts what so ever about the absolute truth under any circumstances - reflection of other people’s reality so you can understand them and appreciate them for who they are when they are talking About Absolute truth, this understanding does not pertain to non spiritual people. For this you will need spiral dynamics and experience in each section to relate. - you don’t Critise people unless they are talking about absolute infinity. Because that’s is the only occasion when there is a wrong because the absolute truth itself is dualistic. Because life itself is dualistic. There’s nothing that can get passed you at this stage, but this doesn’t apply to people above you who are trying to reach nirvana. They will correct you and your devilry. This will happen until the death of your awareness to understand the absolute truth you must accept the death of your awareness. This is the key otherwise you are imagining your own reality. The absolute truth is what ever it is. It’s not for you to make judgements and Critism about because you can not anyone because it will always fall into imagination and delusion. The word the absolute truth is a delusion or illusion. What it is pointing to is the only thing that exists and has ever existed for eternity and will ever exists. And that is you. i am pointing you to the steps of the door. First reach the steps (become enlightened and then unenlightened) and then you must walk up the steps and begin the process (losing your awareness in no mind) and then You must wait for the grace of god to grant you nirvana. It is not something you can attain. To attain something is to have something and for there to be something to be attained. What you attain is death in the form of nothing/ emptiness / love / bliss / peace / freedom .. what ever god like qualities you can use to talk about whatnot “freedom” means to you. It is “freedom” to you and that’s why we seek. We seek freedom from our bondage. Some seek the knowledge of freedom, some seek the love of the divine, some seek for the end of their reincarnation and bliss, some seek for devotion to god. What ever the path was does not matter at the steps. You must sit in no mind, without your focus. But you can not do this without a quite mind and therefore you need all exestential questions answering. Only the one who knows Absolute truth can become fully enlightened. This is what buddha meant when the 2nd fetta said, trust the buddha he reached full enlightenment. In those 30 days of sitting in the trees. He was graced by god. And when you find the absolute truth you realise the buddha was you, the god blessing was you. God is not other than you, there is no near to fear, you will be in safe hands. You must offer life for death and you must offer life for the absolute truth. Period

I got it and got read at 1000 a few years ago. My experience unfolded like Ramaji described in his book,and everything went as advertised, for the most part. At the time it was pretty mindblowing, and I considered it a deep nondual state( from my reference point at the time, that was honest). I still had a ton of issues/defilements/ blockages that I was largely blind to-- it wasn't anywhere close to where I am now, much less full enlightenment as they claimed. Also, after hearing from many others about their results, it turned out that not everyone had the same experience or even awoke despite having the same transmissions and being read at 1000. That being said, it may be beneficial for you, especially if you've got a solid foundation. I think Ramaji is largely honest, but just lacks reference points and underestimates the depth of how far awakening can go, as well as having some self-bias issues about the efficacy of his tools and methods. It's further reinforced by those who highly benefit from it but then buy into it being the end and just rest on their laurels instead of having the vulnerability and desire to keep going. If you decide to get it, just know it's a small step and not going to do all the work for you.

You have to be careful with activating or raising the kundalini energy as it can cause issues and full enlightenment is def not guaranteed and i would say def not immediately. It will still take time. If you raise the kundalini it causes fears and issues to come to the surface and you have to deal with them and it's not obvious what the fears and issues are and also how to deal with them. These things come out as feelings, sensations and emotions and you have to figure out what it is and how to integrate them. If you can't they will stay till you do and that causes suffering. It's almost like psychedelics but with psychedelics i believe it's a lot easier to identify what these fears and issues are and how to deal with them. Kundalini just brings them out and sometimes more than one at the same time. This awakening will happen on it's own when you ready don't force it as it can cause you to go 5 steps forward and then 10 steps back and scare you off the path. Kundalini speeds things up but it's not easier, in fact much harder and not for everyone especially if you not ready. I am also very impatient but these things take time and practice. Just my opinion, hope it helps.

I don't know if there is such a thing as full enlightenment. Will tell you if I get there. For me there are just awakenings, several of them, stronger than the previous one, more clear than the previous one, more truth than the previous one and so on to infinity.

Within Buddhism, full and total enlightenment is the same as completely ridding yourself of avijia. Avijia = ignorance. Ignorance isn’t removed all at once, however. It is shed step by step. Step by step our defilements & our impurities are purged from our systems. This purging eventually culminates and results in the dropping of the first fetter: the identity view - the immense self involvement and attachment one has to one’s personality, identity, body and mind. This is what the modern spiritual community calls non duality. For those that enter non duality, however, it becomes abundantly clear that regardless of the dramatic loss of tension upon awakening, tension still remains. Ignorant actions, thoughts and behaviours still remain. Traditionally, within the non dual community, such tension is easily dismissed as “mind stuff”. Yet why does such “mind stuff” still remain post awakening? A lot of the same people also report growth and deepening. How can that be? If ignorance is gone and one’s clarity complete, there should be no growth. If one has completely disidentified with the body mind organism one should not report such things. Yet not only do such things happen, but many teachers even talk about levels of enlightenment. In this thread I will answer 1 - why that is? 2 - What the substance of the path is, pre and post awakening. 3 - how can one open one’s self to the substance of the path and shed one’s defilements, and achieve complete and total enlightenment. Let’s start with number 1. Why is that? The human being comes with some built in programming. We are programmed to survive, and we primarily rely on our intellect to do so while our intellect relies on its understanding. The issue is, the world is a complete unknown. We can never understand the world. It is unpredictable, always changing, moving and way beyond our scope of understanding. This threatens our survival. Once we feel threatened, we are now at odds with everything that threatens us (this also separates us from what threatens us.) The more threatened we feel the more at odds and separated we become. The more self involved we become. Now let’s get back to the path. On the path, as we decrease our level of self involvement, we progress. This is the case with people off the path as well. For example, a sociopath or a serial killer is completely self involved and doesn’t even see other people as human. This is why he can kill, maim and torture them. At a certain point we hit a threshold and our level of self involvement results in the dropping of the first fetter. In non duality. Yet the subconscious and instinctual need to survive, our fears, traumas and control mechanisms are deeply ingrained in us. This creates cognitive dissonance. Why, you might ask, do I still feel fear, anxiety, depression, joy, pettiness and all these human emotions even though I see clearly that I am not the body mind? Why do I still put others down and think of myself as primary even though I see that so on and so forth? Because your seeing is surface deep. Only on the level of the conscious mind. You still fear, you still attempt to control on many levels within your subconscious and beyond. These questions are often ignored and shut out by people in non duality for the drop in self involvement has resulted in a previously unimaginable peace that they do not want to question, that they do not want to rock. So just as a religious person clings on to his god for comfort (and ultimately survival), the non dual man does so with void. 2 & 3 - what is the substance of the path pre and post awakening? & how to shed one’s defilements. The substance of the path relates to clear seeing of three things within Buddhism. Three major facets of truth. These three things are 1- Anicca 2- Anatta 3- Dukkha. The more clearly you see these three aspects of truth the less self involved you become, and the less self involved you become the more progress is had. This is true pre and post awakening. In fact, complete seeing of these truths on all levels of the mind (subconscious and beyond) without any cognitive dissonance left = full enlightenment. Before I delve into these three facets of truth, however, let me talk a bit about truth itself. Truth is never not present. I don’t mean this in a non dual way, but the facts of life, if they are indeed facts of life, should be evident in every waking second of life itself. If you do not see it, you are simply turning away from it. By that logic if you do indeed want to see them, you should first reflect on what is making you not see such truths, and then reflect on the truths themselves. Now, let’s define and then talk about the truths a little bit. 1 - Anicca. Anicca has two translations that I think capture its essence nicely. One is “one can not maintain anything to one’s satisfaction” while the other is “impermanence”. 2- Anatta. Anatta, popularly translated as no self, has another more nuanced translation that I personally think is superior: “the inability to control”. A self is merely a series of complex control mechanisms created in response to fear after all. 3 - Dukkha - suffering that can be stopped from arising. Why are these truths so important, you may ask? Self involvement and ignorance are both a direct result of not seeing these truths clearly. When we do not see the impermanent nature of the world, and our absolute inability to maintain anything to our satisfaction (Anicca), we attempt to control life’s circumstances. We exert our will onto the world (the opposite of Anatta) and then, when life shows us that it can not be controlled and pinned down and eternalised, Dukkha arises. Suffering arises. Instead of constantly living through that loop of pain, the next time you feel pain, and the next time you suffer, reflect and ask yourself: in what way am I attempting to pin down reality? To eternalise it? In what way am I attempting to control life? In what way am I failing to recognise the absolute truths that are anicca and Anatta at this moment? Then, by reflecting on and seeing these fundamentals of reality all around you, In death, decay, aging, and every second of our waking life, the clarity of them will increase further. Bring your ignorance to the light by asking how you are failing to recognise these truths, then burn them slowly through constant reflection of these truths : ) That was a really long post. A lot to take in too I assume so sorry if it wasn’t too clear. If you have any questions regarding it, feel free to ask.

As long as you have a single thought in your mind you're bias. Only perfect equanimity is not bias. Only full enlightenment is not bias. I mean full enlightenment, not that self-realization stuff.

Does full enlightenment require spirtual awakening plus going up through all stages of spiral Dynamics. That is the ultimate understanding for me now.

@whoareyou Of course But what I'm telling you is, awakenings can occur at any stage. They will then be filtered and understood through the lens of that stage. This notion of "full enlightenment" that you guys like to use is absurd. It's sloppy and creates many foolish conclusions.

This all makes sense now, The correlation between an enlightened person and their level of understanding is their mastery it is not their mastery of consciousness, this is a misleading statement it is their teachings By my calculations, and understanding of absolute infinity, which is at this point quite extensive The only missing part is a full enlightenment I would confirm that leo has surpassed all other enlightened beings teachings with 100% certainty. What this pertains to is his teachings that relate to "understanding of truth" which translates to understanding of "consciousness" an ego is a heavily loaded term, the ego still exists in absolute infinity, it can not be removed. Nothing can be removed from absolute infinity because there is only absolute infinity and consciousness. There is also nothing that can be fininite or monopolised in absolute infinity , because this would limit infinity, which wouldn't make it infinite. Therefore, i am 1000% sure my understanding of absolute infinity is correct. Including the trinity. every prediction i've ever made except leo becoming the unpopular saint, because at the time i didn't realise that things organise at higher levels. What i'm saying is there is only one enlightened being with knowledge on par with leo's and i think that is sadhguru. There is an anomaly with his consciousness, on the lines of jesus consciousness. Lets put it this way, consciousness is a fractal. most of us have to work to have deeper and deeper consciousness fractal. What i'm saying is sadhguru is the deepest fractal born today. The reasoning behind this is because he has been gifted "inverse fractal consciousness" i would call it. where as we have "reverse fractal consciousness" we look into consciousness fractal to give answers, he looks out of fractal consciousness to give answers. Which is EXACTLY my point about stage dark (transcended turquoise SD)

@Truth Addict I edited my post above. That’s a subjective , it’s for people who genuinely like consciousness and just really discovering new things. Just like discovering truth and actually want to help people/ change the world. To me the answer is yes, you could live a pretty cool and fulfilling life. But that’s my subjective opinion. The real fun starts at stage teal where you fuse with consciousness at a deeper level and fall even more in love with it. If you want to end your suffering and end your conceptual life rather than know truth about what is possible in consciousness (reality) and how it works. Then feel free to go for full enlightenment. If you think duality is beautiful then feel free to go to enlightenment (something = nothing) but these people won’t have the same impact on the world scalewise as this conscious pathway. And well if you want to sit and do nothing then feel free to become enlightened nothing and see the whole world as an illusion. It’s maximising free will and maximising life purpose of every individual on this forum, reduces confusion. And sorts out all metaphysical metaknowledge miscommunication. Alas the echo chamber won’t come online for another 4-5 years probably. This is seeding phase. But this is basically the solution to everyone’s problems lol.

Yes because it's unnecessary to once you understand stage coral lol This whole zen and buddhist tradition as leo says "grinding yourself to nihilism" is ridiculous. That is not the point of life. The point of life is not to become enlightened. The point of life is to live. However you can't do this until after nirvana. after completing stage coral. your non-duality is good but its time to reach full enlightenment. you need to have insights about why everything is the way it is. This comes from contemplating into the nature of everything. Which will take a couple of years, just like it took a couple of years to reach enlightenment. But you need to do this from INSIDE your non-dual state, whenever your in it. You need to understand that everything = truth. just like how you saw in the first place that everything is an illusion. you need to do the reverse process and realise truth = everything and truth is not an illusion , but there is no difference between an illusion and real. Making it neither but you can't have this insight while you are stuck in your non-duality thinking its the end and this is why the quality of your life is suffering because you don't understand why everything is the way it is

Also something your also pointing about theres bigger forms of god and how you can reach a 100%. Andrew Cohen (whos got a mixed history as a spiritual teacher) talked with ken wilber a lot about this idea. He phrased it as evolutionary enlightenment and both ken and spiral dynamics/Don Beck were behind the whole thing. Basically the idea is that God/Ground of Being/Non-Duality itself is evolving and changing and that no one ever reaches full enlightenment because ISness itself is always changing and evolving, so a human life is always going to be playing a game of catch up so to say or constantly opening up to the potentials and newness that is born every second (im adding in a few of my own interpretations as well). Although if your a avid reader you'll find quotes from Zen and perhaps Hinduism (my memory for this kinda stuff isn't great) and probably many others that elude to this evernewness idea along with a never changing idea (like a always ITSELF of which is CHANGNESS). Buddha speaks of nothing is permanent, but I'm not completely sure he was referring to this in this context we are using it in. So remain open, its not something you have to figure out all the way or know for a exact fact, since its probably changing anyways.....lol.

@nowimhere a permanent state of self-inquiry will get you to stage coral easier, a permanent state of meditation will get you to stage turquoise quicker. self-inquiry will get you to stage turquoise or non-dual awakening. But it is the fastest method of breaking out of that "safe spot" and breaking through to true god-realisation. (going from stage turquoise to stage coral) , meditation itself is misunderstood, meditation is used to reach a state of samadhi (oneness) , from which then you contemplate the nature of different things- using the mind. The general teachings tell you not to use the mind and hence forth there is a contradiction in "how to meditate" and reaching total enlightenment .. so i'm not sure how you want to play it In conclusion, they are two different things until they converge at the state of oneness or "traditional enlightenment" but after "traditional enlightenment" to get to "full enlightenment" these two methods have different pros and cons. I think self-inquiry is better because you get an idea of how to contemplate. The draw back of self-inquiry is that it uses a lot of monkey mind and hence meditation is the best route to get to the first step of enlightenment. Non-dual awakening maharashi's technique is so powerful that i could be transported to another planet, hypothetically and start self-inquiring there to find out the nature of that planet. That is how ridiculous this man's technique is. it would probably be 10x -100x the effort to do it with meditation. [just some funny extra information]

@Inliytened1 Yes so what are we in disagreement about, we are saying the same thing. I just created a distinction in itself, to make seekers understand that enlightenment is more than a one step process. it is not clear to people that this is full enlightenment and therefore we have to make it easier for people to understand. So the next question is, can you create a new distinction yourself and fill it with void (by this i mean have you tried to find a new frequency of consciousness. such as collective consciousness? [for lack of a better term] The second question is... do you think @zeroISinfinity understands the same thing that you do? you've see his arguments with me, what does his words tell you

@Aakash what I'm trying to help you see is that you have to be able to see him as BOTH he and yourself by becoming directly conscious of that via awakening/mysticism. Spiral dynamics won't do that for you. You may know it in concept (that he is you) but it's not the same thing. So I'm simply stating spiral dynamics isn't part of awakening. What you are calling de-enlightenment is just full enlightenment really. It's not just becoming the formless - collapsing into only pure being is definitely the first stage but also deepening your enlightenment through further mystical experiences in which consciousness elevates a thousand fold and you become the godhead in form - thus realizing directly that form is identical to formlesness. And it's all you.

Spiritual teachers who claim to be enlightened are still trapped in the global ego! Why? Because their bodies are evidently still of the global ego. What do the enlightened people plan to do? Do they plan to go to heaven? If, so is heaven a separate place? Isn't that duality? Do they plan to become disembodies spirits? Isn't that the same as a ghost? Do they plan to reincarnate? Isn't that a stupid plan if they are in contact with infinite intelligence? So there is a severe state of schizophrenia among enlightened people today. Their minds may be enlightened, but what good is that if their bodies are still ego bodies? That's still duality! Full enlightenment must as I see it be to become the full intelligence of the universe, and to continue to grow old and die seems more like infinite stupidity to me.

@Identity I think that would be full enlightenment, you couldn't be here anymore if that was the case.

Honestly, I am just sick of all the hassle to work on myself to eventually attain full enlightenment or nirvana just to fragment myself again and start the cycle of misery all over again from the beginning ad infinitum.

I have certain needs which can not be met. This does not mean I enjoy sadness. I have to find a way to transcend these needs or suffer for life. I just look at my strengths and weaknesses and focus my efforts on what is likely to succeed. For me, attaining full enlightenment is a far better use of my time as it is more likely to succeed than seduction and all of that other stuff. I mean, come on, I look as seductive as a bloody fence post! No offense to fence posts. So the best course of action is just to consciously watch the feelings of lack, etc until the ego finally gives in?

@Leo Gura I didn't know that's possible. Full enlightenment i guess.

The relief from practices is temporary at best. Full enlightenment or the end of suffering isn't permanent either, nothing is. I want experience to end forever, more than a drowning man wants air, more than a son wants to see his father one last time after he sped along on his motorbike into a tractor emerging from a field and became one with its engine block and more than a man blinded wants his sight back. I am infinitely powerful so there's a way. I want to destroy myself.