New War In Israel / Gaza

[Bazooka Jesus]

Yemeni forces are joining in on the fun...

This doesn't look good.

[zazen]

@Gennadiy1981 

I'm guessing it's a mixture of wisdom passed down from the ages, common patterns that are observed in nature, vagueness and self fulfilling them.

Patterns such as that the region of Persian has been home to great civilisations before. Vagueness because Gog and Magog could be interpreted to be anybody if talked about vaguely. Self fulling because the prophecy themselves influence our behaviour towards them, making something abstract into something concrete.

Past historical description shouldn't need to be made  present day prescription, but people who take it as such make it more a probability than a possibility.

Edited November 1, 2023 by zazen

[Leo Gura]

Today the IDF admitted to killing 80+ civilians to kill 1 Hamas person.

And they have no qualms about this. So this is their philosophy.

At this rate they will kill 100,000 civilians just to kill 10% of Hamas.

What will happen after the civilian death toll goes over 100,000? This is gonna create so much hatred of Jews around the world. Is that going to really make Jews feel safe?

Edited November 1, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Loveeee]

12 hours ago, zazen said:

 He said could be tunnels - yet that justifies bombing a refugee camp. Ridiculous. They don't know how their border got breached yet they know where Hamas is and want the world to believe their 'targeting'.

When you've got western mass media pundits deciding this shit is too evil to stake their reputations on, you're losing. Even Wolf Blitzer ( who literally worked for AIPAC ) is pushing back against an IDF official about this and Piers Morgan.

CNN's Wolf Blitzer: You knew that there were innocent civilians in that refugee camp, right?

IDF spox: This is the tragedy of war. We told them to move south.

Blitzer: So you decided to drop the bomb anyway.

IDF spox: We’re doing everything we can to minimize civilian deaths.

'All these pundits are noticing the same thing, history may look very, very unkindly on those who supported this massacre. Not even the worst empire propagandists want that to be their lasting legacy.'

Another week, another loss for Israels global reputation only to fuel yet another weekend ahead of even greater protests around the world. But Israelis think this is making them safer and that this is defence when really it is creating more hostility for them to be ever defensive against their whole lives.

Agreed

[Sucuk Ekmek]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

 

What will happen after the civilian death toll goes over 100,000? This is gonna create so much hatred of Jews around the world. Is that going to really make Jews feel safe?

Nobody cares, jews aint no communist.

[Juan]

Andrew Callaghan from Channel 5 has some great interviews about the situation, it’s age restricted so you gotta watch it on the app. 

[Hardkill]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Today the IDF admitted to killing 80+ civilians to kill 1 Hamas person.

And they have no qualms about this. So this is their philosophy.

At this rate they will kill 100,000 civilians just to kill 10% of Hamas.

What will happen after the civilian death toll goes over 100,000? This is gonna create so much hatred of Jews around the world. Is that going to really make Jews feel safe?

Should they do a temporary ceasefire?

[PurpleTree]

Part two with the boys

 

[Willie]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Today the IDF admitted to killing 80+ civilians to kill 1 Hamas person.

And they have no qualms about this. So this is their philosophy.

At this rate they will kill 100,000 civilians just to kill 10% of Hamas.

What will happen after the civilian death toll goes over 100,000? This is gonna create so much hatred of Jews around the world. Is that going to really make Jews feel safe?

As I see it, there already is hatred of Jews as a baseline. So, the only thing that has changed is they prove they are capable of being the “bad guys” for once. The notion of Jews truly being safe in the Middle East seems far-fetched. Nukes and strong support from wealthy Western nations certainly has helped, though.

[Twentyfirst]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Today the IDF admitted to killing 80+ civilians to kill 1 Hamas person.

And they have no qualms about this. So this is their philosophy.

At this rate they will kill 100,000 civilians just to kill 10% of Hamas.

What will happen after the civilian death toll goes over 100,000? This is gonna create so much hatred of Jews around the world. Is that going to really make Jews feel safe?

If 100,000 civilians die including 10% of Hamas it will create so much frustration that more people will join Hamas and that 10% will automatically be replenished

[Lila9]

The October 7 massacre map:

https://oct7map.com/

 

[Twentyfirst]

9 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

The October 7 massacre map:

https://oct7map.com/

 

What a tragedy and outrage! Why would Hamas do this!? Maybe because Jewish people invaded Palestinian land in 1948?

Edited November 2, 2023 by Twentyfirst

[Lila9]

2 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

What a tragedy and outrage! Why would Hamas do this!? Maybe because Jewish people invaded Palestinian land in 1948?

Of course, every crime against Jews is justified. Let's eliminate them and kill all of them because they dared to build a country to save themselves from Nazis.

Antisemitism is on raise. It never really disappeared.

[DawnC]

12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Today the IDF admitted to killing 80+ civilians to kill 1 Hamas person.

And they have no qualms about this. So this is their philosophy.

At this rate they will kill 100,000 civilians just to kill 10% of Hamas.

What will happen after the civilian death toll goes over 100,000? This is gonna create so much hatred of Jews around the world. Is that going to really make Jews feel safe?

@Leo Gura

A simplistic form of consideration and analysis. This is heavily dependent on the individuals involved. It hinges on who the person in question is and who the civilians are. Would you hesitate to eliminate this individual if it meant that 80 civilians would die, assuming this is the guy and those are the civilians?

 

 

It's easy to be moral when your own survival isn't at stake.

edit: 

my points are:

1. It is simplistic to make numerical calculations based on a single scenario and then draw conclusions about the entire conflict.

2. Drawing a moral conclusion based solely on casualty numbers is overly simplistic.

3. The moral standard we put Israel to may be unrealistic during war.

Edited November 2, 2023 by DawnC

[Something Funny]

@DawnC it's disgusting to see you compare the costs of human lives like that.

If you think that killing him is worth 80 other lives then it ahould be your and your family's lives.

If I gave you a choice: I will kill this guy but you and your whole family have to die. 

Are you going to agree to that deal?

16 minutes ago, DawnC said:

It's easy to be moral when your own survival isn't at stake.

Yeah, exactly. 

[Something Funny]

@DawnC also, ironically, this is exactly how Hamas thinks and that's why, I assume, you have an issue with them.

Ends justify the means.

By fighting Hamas like that, you become Hamas.

 

Edited November 2, 2023 by Something Funny

[Vrubel]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

This is gonna create so much hatred of Jews around the world. Is that going to really make Jews feel safe?

There were anti-Semitic riots in South America after Israel kidnapped a Nazi war criminal from Argentina, People are going to hate Jews no matter what, this is a very deep point. Anti-Semitism has always been the shadow of the Jews. That's the whole reason Israel cannot not exist. Even with all the terror and wars it is better that Jews have a country than be at the mercy of antisemitism in for example Russia. 

[DawnC]

14 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

@DawnC it's disgusting to see you compare the costs of human lives like that.

If you think that killing him is worth 80 other lives then it ahould be your and your family's lives.

If I gave you a choice: I will kill this guy but you and your whole family have to die. 

Are you going to agree to that deal?

Yeah, exactly. 

It's not a matter of 'comparing the value of human lives', it's about grasping what exactly you're proposing. If this individual were shooting at you and advocating for genocide against your people from a house containing 80 civilians who support him, you might perceive things differently.

Edited November 2, 2023 by DawnC

[DawnC]

19 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

@DawnC also, ironically, this is exactly how Hamas thinks and that's why, I assume, you have an issue with them.

Ends justify the means.

By fighting Hamas like that, you become Hamas.

 

I didn't say that. I never suggested killing civilians indiscriminately or doing any other thing that Hamas did intentionally. Again, consider an individual shooting at at you and advocating for genocide against your people from a house containing 80 civilians who support him.

Can't you see the significant, fundamental difference here?

Edited November 2, 2023 by DawnC

[Something Funny]

3 minutes ago, DawnC said:

It's not a matter of 'comparing the value of human lives', it's about grasping what exactly you're proposing. If this individual were shooting at you and advocating for genocide against your people from a house containing 80 civilians who support him, you might perceive things differently.

Yes it is. That's exactly what you are doing. Comparing a value of human lives.

Why couldn't this have been a ground operation, using troop to catch and eliminate him?

Because Israel values the lives of its soldiers more than it does the lives of Palestine civilians.

5 minutes ago, DawnC said:

If this individual were shooting at you and advocating for genocide against your people from a house containing 80 civilians who support him, you might perceive things differently.

This is a ridiculous scenario. 

He wasn't shooting at anyone at the moment.

There was no hard proof that he was even there in the first place.

You have no idea who those 80 civilians were supporting nor should it matter as supporting someone is not a death sentence worthy offence. At least not according to the laws of the 1st world countries, which Israel claims to be.

And even if your fairy tail scenario was the case. Lets says it was some terrorist holding 80 people hostage and shooting everyone else in the middle of New York. 

There is no way a solution would be to kill them all together.