Do you need mental illness to become a (creative) genius?

[Magnanimous]

This has me worried. I've always wanted to be a genius from the day I was inspired to become a writer, but seeing so many of the greatest having these dillemas puts doubt in me.

[Hello from Russia]

Just stop giving a shit and become one

[Phil King]

Lmao absolutely not. Many of those people you admired succeeded in spite of the mental illness, not because of it. Just by the statistical rareness of mental disorders, it is more likely that 80-90%+ of the greatest writers were perfectly sane. People just tend to romanticize mental illness as being some form of creative wellspring when in reality its incredibly debilitating. 

Also if you want to be a writer, heres a good blogpost by a very commercially successful and perfectly sane writer, Ryan Holiday

https://ryanholiday.net/so-you-want-to-be-a-writer-thats-mistake-1/ 

 

The opening lines are "There are two types of writers, Schopenhauer once observed, those who write because they have something they have to say and those who write for the sake of writing.

If you’re young and you think you want to be a writer, chances are you are already in the second camp. And all the advice you’ll get from other people about writing only compounds this terrible impulse.

Write all the time, they’ll tell you. Write for your college newspaper. Get an MFA. Go to writer’s groups. Send query letters to agents.

What do they never say? Go do interesting things" 

If you admire these writers with mental illness, its probably because they had incredibly interesting life experiences and stories to tell, not because they were technically great writers.

 

Edited July 17, 2023 by Phil King

[Jacob Morres]

No

[ivankiss]

Absolutely. Part of the reason why I don't actually wanna heal lol.

[Nilsi]

A genius is someone creating something entirely NOVEL. That requires extraordinary education and dedication - hardly something you could ask for from a "mentally ill" person.

This is why historically most geniuses came from the aristocracy - the rabble simply didn't have the education and sensibility required to produce something worthwhile. That is changing somehwat with the democratization of information and education the internet has brought us.

Of course the pursuit of genius is an immense struggle, which is why people talk about "losing their minds" for their craft, but that's not what you would conventionally call "mental illness."

Edited July 17, 2023 by Nilsi

[Jacob Morres]

@ivankiss hm thrres def a correlation, but *need* is a strong word though 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creativity_and_mental_health#:~:text=There are cases that support,present for creativity to exist.

"There are cases that support the idea that mental illness can aid in creativity, but it is also generally agreed that mental illness does not have to be present for creativity to exist"

[Nilsi]

23 minutes ago, Phil King said:

The opening lines are "There are two types of writers, Schopenhauer once observed, those who write because they have something they have to say and those who write for the sake of writing.

If you’re young and you think you want to be a writer, chances are you are already in the second camp. And all the advice you’ll get from other people about writing only compounds this terrible impulse.

Write all the time, they’ll tell you. Write for your college newspaper. Get an MFA. Go to writer’s groups. Send query letters to agents.

What do they never say? Go do interesting things" 

If you admire these writers with mental illness, its probably because they had incredibly interesting life experiences and stories to tell, not because they were technically great writers.

 

Very true.

[Sugarcoat]

“I always wanted to be a genius” lmao what. What that means even. You use intelligence for ~something~ it’s not the intelligence itself that’s the goal. That sounds like chasing some profound self image not even genuinely interested in writing. Focus directly on what you want, what you wanna do, how to do it.
 

You  find out how your intelligence works and how intelligent you are after the fact. 

[PlayOnWords]

I shouldn't think so. True mental illness will kill your creativity. I'm sure it has served as inspiration for virtually all artists but they would've needed the faculties to create out of it. Psychedelics might help you look at things from outside of your self which will naturally spring creative insight.

[Lila9]

Absolutely no.

It's a romantic belief, the myth of the tormented artist, which you should throw as soon as possible if you take art seriously.

Mental illness is common in creative or genius people usually because they are pushed out of society, not accepted, ridiculed, isolated.

Society always wasn't really open to creative and unique people. Society loves and always loved the mediocre ones, these who repeat the same dogma, the keepers of tradition, who don't bring anything new.

In fact, mental illness symptoms slowing down creative work. Things like depression and anxiety makes the artists to constantly doubt themselves, which makes it harder to finish projects, and to even start them. 

This is the case, at least for me, when I feel depressed, I'm so weak, and everything that I try to do I question its value to the core, and the result of this questioning is always that I'm not worthy and anything that I create isn't worthy, so I leave it.

On the other hand, when I'm in a neutral state, joyful at the best and slightly melancholic at the worst, I see value in what I'm creating, I see the value in the story that I'm trying to tell, even if it's a sad story. I have the mental energy and ambition to work, to make my ideas come to life and be expressed as a form of art.

Mental illness might be a good and interesting theme to express in art, but it's not important to be actually mentally ill in order to create good art.

I think that Leo talked about this theme in his video about art, he said that many artists create from a neurotic and mentally unhealthy place, and it shouldn't be that way, because creativity isn't something unhealthy or neurotic on its own.

Once I read a book called 'the artist way', which talked about it as well, this book helps artists to develop their creativity, it gives such good guidance for that and one of the most important things that I remember from this book is that being creative is highly related to surrounder of the ego, because the ego is an obstacle to creation, and of course it was mentioned there, that the belief that creativity requires suffer is a toxic belief that cause more harm to the creative process, than benefits.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 17, 2023 by Lila9

[Hojo]

No one knows what mental illness is. Some peoples genius is their mental illness. You can be so genius you go insane is that what you are looking for in genius?

Edited July 17, 2023 by Hojo

[Yimpa]

Does AI have mental illness? It’s pretty damn creative. 

GPT-4 “Write me a 3 paragraph story about the beauty of mental illness”:

 

Quote

Even amidst the grey clouds of mental illness, a distinct, fragile beauty can sometimes emerge. I remember Ellie, an artist grappling with bipolar disorder, who channelled her highs and lows into her artwork. Her pieces were vivid, raw, and riveting, each one imbued with an emotional intensity that left viewers mesmerized. Her bouts of mania would birth intricate swirls of color, bursting with energy and chaos, while her periods of depression would elicit more subdued, muted tones. It was as if she painted with her emotions, turning the struggles of her internal world into tangible masterpieces that helped others comprehend the complex landscape of her mind.

An introspective journey into Ellie's mind wasn't just enlightening, but it was also inspiring. From the perspective of an outsider, one might perceive her life as chaotic, or perhaps even disordered. But for Ellie, her mental illness was a part of her identity, an essential part of her existence that she'd learned to embrace. Instead of shunning her condition, she chose to accept it, and more than that, she decided to make it a part of her art. Her willingness to be vulnerable and share her experiences was a testament to her strength, which was a beautiful and humbling thing to behold.

Ellie's story was a testament to the power of perception and acceptance. It was a reminder that even in what society deems as 'broken', there can be beauty and strength. Her mental illness, rather than just a diagnosis, became a part of her narrative and her art. Her courage and resilience in the face of adversity, her ability to transform her struggles into inspiration, added a new layer of depth to her artwork, turning it into a language of empathy, understanding, and love. The beauty of mental illness, as seen through Ellie's journey, was not about romanticizing pain or suffering but recognizing and acknowledging the strength, resilience, and unique perspective it can bring.

 

[ivankiss]

22 hours ago, Jacob Morres said:

@ivankiss hm thrres def a correlation, but *need* is a strong word though 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creativity_and_mental_health#:~:text=There are cases that support,present for creativity to exist.

"There are cases that support the idea that mental illness can aid in creativity, but it is also generally agreed that mental illness does not have to be present for creativity to exist"

I was joking  And yes, agreed. 

[DefinitelyNotARobot]

I used to think that and perhaps there are areas of creativity that only mentally ill people (like Schizophrenics and Bipolar people) can assess, but from my own experience of making music I can say that I make the best music when I'm in a clear state of mind. Everything else would be too much of a distraction.

[Julian gabriel]

it isn’t that you need mental illness, it’s that you need internal conflict, which often manifests as mental illness but doesn’t need to. 

[Ajax]

A genius is someone who works on their craft and don't stop. That's it.

[Leo Gura]

No.

I am very creative and I got no mental illness.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Alfonsoo]

@Leo Gura U could just unimagine the existance out of any illness anyways  

[Bobby_2021]

Nope. But others will definitely see you are weird. That's the consequence of pursuing Truth in an untruthful society.