Wrong Insight: 'Nothing exists outside of MY mind' - Leo's Greatest Pitfall

[Yimpa]

3 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

Can somebody explain to me why non duality and solipsism is into contradiction to each other? To me it seems compatible. Non duality says there is only one, and solipsism says that too. 

In the same way you used to believe that only a man and a woman can get married. 

I’m assuming you don’t believe that anymore, right? ?

Edited July 5, 2023 by Yimpa

[StarStruck]

2 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

In the same way you used to believe that only a man and a woman can get married. 

I’m assuming you don’t believe that anymore, right? ?

I do

[Yimpa]

@StarStruck well, then I’d probably start with that first 

(totally unbiased and mature response from me, hehe).

But on a serious note, notice how despite having contradictory statements, TRUTH remains?

There are infinite contradictions. It’s not your job to solve them, but to realize the source of them!

[StarStruck]

@Yimpa I don’t think contradictions exist. It is just that our mind doesn’t understand it. 

[Yimpa]

@StarStruck Understanding and love beyond the human concept of understanding and love clears all confusion. 

[StarStruck]

1 hour ago, Yimpa said:

@StarStruck Understanding and love beyond the human concept of understanding and love clears all confusion. 

@Yimpa dunno man. I’m not feeling that love. 

[Moksha]

@Yimpa The beauty about letting go of attachment to results is that it frees you to live directly, without needing to define reality for yourself or others. True living doesn't begin until you let go of the dictionary handed to you by society.

@gettoefl Nondual pointers are ironic, aren't they? It's why silence is the purest language.

@StarStruck As a friend of mine who used to be on the forum often said, "Not two". Nondual doesn't mean "one". How do you count infinity?

[Inliytened1]

10 hours ago, Spiritedness said:

@Inliytened1 Any good (introductory) books that will save me some years of spinning my wheels on Spirituality and cut through the B.S.? Currently experiencing information overload Too many schools of thought/philosophies and don't know where to turn to.

I can only tell you my own path.  I stumbled onto Leo's work and began meditation and self inquiry.  Self inquiry meditation and do nothing meditation with some concentration meditation.  Getting in touch with actuality.   The now.  And with self inquiry you simply have to inquire into what you currently believe you are and you will slowly deconstruct your own reality.    Just be warned because it is very serious stuff when you realize everything we talk about here is actually true.  When that happens you will bring about your own death and wake up realizing your whole life and this entire reality is a dream.  Because your existence was always conceptual in the first place.  If you dare then, Just listen to the first enlightenment videos he put out all the way through to all the metaphysical ones.   While meditating and or psychedelics.   Peter Ralstons Book of not Knowing was one of the ones I did read but awakened midway through it.

Edited July 5, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Yimpa]

11 hours ago, Spiritedness said:

Currently experiencing information overload Too many schools of thought/philosophies and don't know where to turn to.

At a certain point, you’ll realize that all pointers are pointing in the same directionless direction. Sure, some pointers are shorter, others are longer, many appear solid (but are actually flimsy), etc. But the point is that you’ll stop chasing the perfect pointer and realize the source of all pointers!

[Princess Arabia]

30 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

At a certain point, you’ll realize that all pointers are pointing in the same directionless direction. Sure, some pointers are shorter, others are longer, many appear solid (but are actually flimsy), etc. But the point is that you’ll stop chasing the perfect pointer and realize the source of all pointers!

Nice

[Arthogaan]

16 hours ago, ardacigin said:

What you experience as matter and mind is just the substance of Ultimate reality or suchness or whatever you call it. They are not ALL mind. And 'your' mind is NOT all there is.  AND you can't experience UR directly. Not with psychedelics. Not with meditation or not with some combination. That is the insight into emptiness and where ultimate not knowing arises from. 

Okay, I think this is the source of all misconception in Solipsism vs Emptiness debate.

I will try to slowly explain it from my current understanding.

Let's imagine Lucy has a dream at night. In that dream Lucy dreams that she is Mary. Mary inside the dream is a hardcore materialist and therefore she believes that both external world and her own (dreamed) mind is made of matter.

Next night Lucy dreams that she is Jack. Jack is a hardcore solipsist in lower case meaning of solipsism. Jack believes everything is his own small mind.

Next night Lucy dreams that she is Arthur. Arthur is a hardcore buddhist and he believes that both matter and his own mind is made of Emptyness.

The last night Lucy dreams that she is Leo, and Leo is hardcore psychedelic psychonaut, he takes 5-meo which makes him realize that ACTUALLY HE IS LUCY, THAT IT IS ALL A DREAM. THAT EVERYTHING IS LUCY'S OWN MIND. Not a mind of Leo, but a mind of Lucy. Leo realizes that he is Lucy and of course in this analogy Lucy is God. The Mind that dreams it all.
 

Even emptyness and non existence happens inside of Mind of God. Just like dreamless sleep where no world is generated is still inside the mind, because there is all there is.

I think @ardacigin you could argue from your model that in the state of sleepless dream there is no mind and all that is left is Empty Ultimate Reality, because the mind is gone (because it is turned off).

I trully believe that we are trying to point to the same insight, but people from buddhist backround have a bias against using the word mind.
To me personally Mind seems like the best word, because it points to the fact that this Ultimate Reality that everything is generated from is SO CLOSE, SO RIGHT HERE, SO INTIMATELY NOW. God's Mind is ultimate reality. And you are God.

@Leo Gura @Inliytened1 @Sincerity @Breakingthewall Please give me your comments about dream analogy used here.

[Water by the River]

13 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

Emptiness is but a facet.   Also a facet is realizing it is Mind.  This is where Buddhism can be a trap.   Mind is all there is.  Mind is Emptiness.  But Mind is also infinity.   The two are identical.  The mistakes Buddhists make is to dismiss Mind.  Understand that this key difference between what is taught here and Buddhism.   No self is the pinnacle of awakening- but infinity or Mind is the second.  This is what Buddhism misses.  Leo is against taking Buddhism as belief because you will fall into thinking no Mind is everything.  Ironically, it is - but not how you think it is.

Yes, often the balance is missing, and there is only Emptiness-talk. Probably 99,9% of Buddhists are not enlightened, so a lot of incorrect stuff can be found.

The Infinite Consciousness (or Infinity, Infinite Mind) aspect/facet can be found at quite some places. For example Huang Po, or the Yogachara School of Mind only, or Dzogchen/the Supreme Source.

I don't consider myself in any way exclusively Buddhist,in all wisdom traditions beautiful pointers and paths can be found.

Maybe some people find the links below interesting:

Dzogchen, Supreme Source:

Yogachara School of Mind only:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yogachara

 

and Chan/Zen: Huang Po

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huangbo_Xiyun

"

One Mind[edit]

Huángbò's teaching centered on the concept of “mind” (Chinese: hsin), a central issue for Buddhism in China for the previous two centuries or more. He taught that mind cannot be sought by the mind. One of his most important sayings was “mind is the Buddha”. He said:

All the Buddhas and all sentient beings are nothing but the One Mind, beside which nothing exists. The One Mind alone is the Buddha, and there is no distinction between the Buddha and sentient beings.[8]

He also said:

To awaken suddenly to the fact that your own Mind is the Buddha, that there is nothing to be attained or a single action to be performed – this is the Supreme Way.[9]

He also firmly rejected all dualism, especially between the “ordinary” and “enlightened” states:

If you would only rid yourselves of the concepts of ordinary and Enlightened, you would find that there is no other Buddha than the Buddha in your own Mind. The arising and the elimination of illusion are both illusory. Illusion is not something rooted in Reality; it exists because of your dualistic thinking. If you will only cease to indulge in opposed concepts such as ‘ordinary’ and ‘Enlightened’, illusion will cease of itself.[10]"

More stuff on request.

Selling Water by the River

[Bazooka Jesus]

9 hours ago, Yimpa said:

There are infinite contradictions. It’s not your job to solve them, but to realize the source of them!

10/10

[Sincerity]

57 minutes ago, Arthogaan said:

 @Inliytened1 @Sincerity @Breakingthewall Please give me your comments about dream analogy used here.

I think that's a good way to explain it. 

[Breakingthewall]

@Arthogaan 

For me, the issue of solipsism is solved like this: on the one hand, there is the experience that is happening, the now, this, me. On the other hand is the conceptualization. To think that others have an experience similar to yours is a concept, an idea. It is not false, nor true, it is an idea. it is not experiential. if reality is this, the experience, the others are only real insofar as they appear in the experience. they are part of the experience, therefore, part of you. This does not mean that they have no experience, it means that their possible experience is a projection of your mind, a concept. so, what you said about lucy and the other characters in the dream, yes, maybe it's something like that, infinity is having infinite simultaneous experiences, but that...is a concept. reality is this. here now. infinite. So, beyond the concept. 

 

[Spiritedness]

@Inliytened1 When you mean 'some concentration meditation' you mean Vipassana?

[Inliytened1]

On 7/6/2023 at 9:49 PM, Spiritedness said:

@Inliytened1 When you mean 'some concentration meditation' you mean Vipassana?

@ardacigin i mean picking something and staring at it for hours.    

[Yimpa]

8 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

@ardacigin i mean picking something and staring at it for hours.    

The Infinite EYE can never truly hide from itself. 

[Carl-Richard]

On 5.7.2023 at 9:14 AM, StarStruck said:

Can somebody explain to me why non duality and solipsism is into contradiction to each other? To me it seems compatible. Non duality says there is only one, and solipsism says that too. 

Non-duality is the wave realizing it's the ocean. Solipsism is the wave thinking it's the only thing that exists; that there is actually no ocean, only the wave.

But of course, people will disagree about what these words even mean, so it seems kind of pointless to even provide your five cents on the issue.

Unless people can become better at formalizing all different perspectives under a shared umbrella with neat conceptual distinctions and giving each concept its own proper term (which is technically impossible, as some of the perspectives are too vague or internally inconsistent to be captured in this way), we'll have people talking past each other like this.

Edited July 9, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[StarStruck]

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

Non-duality is the wave realizing it's the ocean. Solipsism is the wave thinking it's the only thing that exists; that there is actually no ocean, only the wave.

But of course, people will disagree about what these words even mean, so it seems kind of pointless to even provide your five cents on the issue.

Unless people can become better at formalizing all different perspectives under a shared umbrella with neat conceptual distinctions and giving each concept its own proper term (which is technically impossible, as some of the perspectives are too vague or internally inconsistent to be captured in this way), we'll have people talking past each other like this.

Yea spirituality misses SD yellow structure. It is so confusing. 

Why is it hard for a spiritual teaching to make a scale from most easy awakening to most difficult awakening? Like first understand non duality, than understand solipsism and then understand alien consciousness. 

I do believe there are overarching principles in spirituality. These need to be defined and put together for students. Otherwise it is just a mishmash of ideas. It is no wonder that human spirituality is in such a dire state. 

Edited July 9, 2023 by StarStruck