ardacigin

@Moksha Well I think Leo views that argument from 'I value deepest understanding possible compared to embodying an insight'. He must think it is all right suffering and being in normal states of delusion AS LONG AS he is gaining the deepest insights and understandings no one else is having through psychedelics. (which is not a guarantee by the way as mistaken insights are a real possibility) But thats the feeling I got from his demeanor, I may be wrong.

The usefulness of 'dissolving attachment', as Leo says, is not important in this context. Insights actually stand on their own merits and doesnt need to support any 'survival benefits' so to speak. Those attachments dissolve 'on their own' as a symptom of attaining deep and permanent insight. But I do understand what you mean. (in the sense that there is a correlation between reduced attachment and insight attainment)

Well imagine all the states of consciousness Mary can create (which is infinite) in that dream having amazing experiences. Using psychedelics and meditating. Profound truths regarding 'THAT dream' reality. But thats it. She doesnt see that thats a facade. 'She' is a facade. She is having these awakenings and curing sicknesses of unborn babies by raising her consciousness etc. but she is not cognizant of very nature of how 'experience' arises or how there is a reality Mary can never DIRECTLY access (because it is higher order) See, Mary doesnt realize this dream is ONLY a subset of a MUCH larger reality her puny brain and meditation techniques and psychedelics have NO access to. But you CAN realize this 'meta' insight by examining your mind and see how your 'mind' is trying to interpret this 'Ultimate Reality' by creating a coffee table, a hand, a body, a self, a world etc. This is crucial to understand. Your personal mind and its concoctions are NOT all there is to truth. That coffee table is a construct and ONLY represents the very nature of Ultimate reality in a crude and ultimately illusionary manner. (Just like everything) But these 'conscious experiences' are all we humans have access to derive the 'truth' from the illusion by clarity, mindfulness and deep investigation of what is going on here and thats what the Buddhist path is actually about. You gotta be proficient at this path and then come back to psychedelics and you'll see how different of a perspective you have on certain matters like this. It is not just about 'experiencing those insights regarding Ultimate Reality and our states of consciousness but also to 'see' them to be the case 100% all the time 24/7. Thats why it is so powerful and profound. When you do have a permanent insight. Until then, the possibility of misinterpretation exists even in the most experienced psychonauts.

But dont get me wrong here. Psychedelics are VERY useful and deep and profound. It is just that it is possible to have mistaken insight. Same is (to a lesser degree) present in normal meditation is as well. 'Mistaken insight' is not a problem actually but psychedelics are MUCH easier to misinterpret. And harder to see 'What was the misinterpretation?' THAT is my point and is what happened with Leo observing his last few years of content, responses and demeanor.

And hey! you can actually contact that Ultimately Reality that I'm speaking off. It is just not what you think it is. Those insights Buddhists speak of constitute the very nature of that ultimate reality and you can be conscious of them right now! Not via alien awakenings or having bombastic conscious experiences that veer one's constuctions further into 'I'm a being that is omniscient (first of all, all sense of separation is an illusion so you cant even be a 'being' so to speak) AND can control 'reality' (which again implies duality) directly via getting even more conscious' etc. It is easy to slip into that mode when the very experiences that your mind constructs in psychedelics is very convincing. But there is such a thing as a 'mistaken insight' You misinterpret it and reach the wrong conclusion through the same experiences. So don't put psychedelics on a pedestal and think 'it is 100% the truth downloading to your consciousness' or whatever. Sure it is very close to that actually but there is a significant chance of misinterpretation still Especially when you are so attached to said experiences for your entire spiritual development like Leo.

Well just keep going in your own dream analogy. You realize that 'Arthagoaan' fella is sleeping and is living in a different 'dimension' so to speak. My point is from your 'dream' landscape (while you are sleeping at night) is NOT all there is to reality. When you do wake up (both figuratively and literally in this case), you see that there is a new 'constructed' reality that INCLUDES your dream reality (Arthagon waking up from the dream as a person. Washing their face, living their lives). So that dream landscape ıs NOT all there is to reality. There is Ultimate Reality that FULLY includes and is one with your dream landscape but it is much larger and is NOT a part of 'ALL MIND' as subset. It is the higher order. A reality your mind CANT even access directly with your human brains even with the best pscyhedelics or meditations. Thats the insight into Emptiness and it truly is an eye opener. Especially considering Leo is extremely intoxicated with the idea that 'The conscious experiences are really important. They are all you know. There is NOTHING that is higher order than this. This is it!' sorta mindset. It is all the foundation that rests on his solipsistic and 'all mind' position. Not even realizing his alien awakenings are jus as unimportant as that coffee table and conscious experiences OVERALL are ultimately meaningless due to insight into emptiness and impermanence.

There is 'mind' in even dreamless sleep and it isnt 'turned off' as you say. You are just not conscious of the mind sense . That is not 'empty ultimate reality'. It is not about 'Buddhists have this bias' first of all, I'm not even a religious Buddhist and second of all, 'All mind' is just wrong on the insight level and so is solipsism. There is no need to 'reconcile' anything. It just doesnt fit. Simple as that.

You actually do. Otherwise survival worries OP makes clear in his post will rear their heads eventually. For you as well if you are 'peaceful' right now, you wont be tomorrow or the day after. You are not conscious of the magnitude of suffering you are experiencing as a ego and that contrast and understanding can occur with awakening only in the depth I'm talking about. Otherwise, your 'happiness' will always be 'shaky' and 'unreliable' so to speak.

This is exactly what you'll be free of when you permanently awaken. The fact that you experience this as an everyday common occurence tells you that you have lots of work to do and you are not spiritually awakened. Time to get to work and actually apply the insight experiences you've had with psychedelics and living in with those insights 24/7. That will start changing your life on the 'depth' axis, not doing your 58th DMT session this friday.

It is a fearful thing to set out to discern the truth for oneself. If we step away from our consesus, even for a moment, to reflect on the possiblity of the impossible, to consider viewing certain cosmic interactions from a different angle, to dare to questions some underlying principle, what dreadful rearrangements would take place in one's consciousness. If there is a strange and different way of knowing, then it might lead us to know ourselves in a strange and different way as well. In such a case, would it not feel as if we are losing control? We may think that our establishment of a world view and a consensus reality is an purely theoretical enterprise, dispassionately performed and endorsed by our responses to conscious experiences. But the primitive form of experience is emotional. For the highest stages of consciousness those emotions are compassion, empathy and sympathy - 'feeling in other and conformally with another'. That is why it is so hard even for those consciously trying to think new thoughts, and ways of perceiving, to break away from their ingrained habits. There is heavy emotional attachment to our constructs - The way we perceive the world and the attitudes by which we respond to experiences on a gut level. This investigation certainly requires a strong personality - a high level of tenaciousness and an ability to work through strong feelings of initial boredom fear depression and anxiety - where your attachments will be in question and you'll have to let go of those attachments to gain traction. See, you'll always have what is called 'blind spots'. Your job is to maintain greater awareness of the process and dont lose the forest from the trees. Everything that you do and think and feel actively generates and informs the next moment of consciousness. Your life is a holistic and continual process of occurrence precipitated by the intentions hold and let go of. Your mind's resources of attention and awareness are scarce and gather their source from a limited pool of 'conscious power' In general, what you 'focus on', your mind is in a tendency to become 'more attached' to it. This is true for all experiences of all forms. Even the memory of a legit insight is a construct for your mind to crave and create and attach itself to. That is also the danger of what is referred to as 'concentration on an activity as a flow state'. See, if you want your life to be in a state of 'flow', you need to awaken and attain insight. Without attaining permanent insight, you'll always backslide into your ways of unconsciousness. The same unconscious behaviours and addictions will rear their heads and you'll wonder why very little change has occurred both on the big picture and the small picture after years of practice. To not experience such plateau, understand how your mind works so intimately with duality, illusions and attachments to said illusions. To have a satisfying life, I recommend samatha vipassana, then jhana practices (or positive feel as Shinzen calls it) and finally insight practice starting with self enquiry (Who am I) as a foundation. After you break through into awakening permanently, the 'stream' will help you along. Until then, you need to know the traps and always hold the intention of progressing on this path on some level on a daily basis. Otherwise, progress will be almost impossible. Keep these in mind in your spiritual practice. Much love, Arda

There is a fundamental essence that underlies reality. Call it whatever you want. Suchness, ultimate reality, absolute god consciousness true self no self. In the basis of your DUALITY illusory existence in separation, when you experience the substance of ultimate reality (UR) from the 'self looking out' you see 'matter'. That same substance of UR when 'self looks inside' is mind in your illusiory existence, But it is all 1 stuff! What you experience as matter and mind is just the substance of Ultimate reality or suchness or whatever you call it. They are not ALL mind. And 'your' mind is NOT all there is. AND you can't experience UR directly. Not with psychedelics. Not with meditation or not with some combination. That is the insight into emptiness and where ultimate not knowing arises from. What did you think masters were referring to with 'emptiness'? All of these insights are extremely deep and profound stuff. I watched Leo's video on impermanence some time ago and well to say the least, that was one of the most 'beginner' level and barebones understandings of said insight that is not even true in the highest level. See, what you need to realize is that 'ALL MIND' and claims like 'You are God and you have control over this imagination YOU create' etc sorta claims that also dovetails with hyper idealistic solipsism are NOT what non duality in its essence is about. I know it sounds so similar. After all, Leo is talking about non duality as well. But it is making it all 'egoic' and 'imbuing with control' where no such thing exists. He gives this importance to conscious experiences where none exists. There is not even a TINY bit of 'you' or separation of ANY degree where you can exercise such control. His alien awakenings also doesnt mean anything. I dont know this for sure but I do have an inkling Leo is very confused with his psychedelic experiences and doesnt know how to go forward with those experiences I'm sure he is actually changing things on the fly where through feedback and overall progression of his path, he must micro adjust, leave certain insights and morph them etc. This is nowhere as 'smooth' sailing of a process his admittedly authoritative and charismatic persona makes one believe. And this is absolutely not what masters mean by 'this path is infinite' Sure thats true but thats not what Leo is doing. I hope he sees the error of his perceptions but again, he has a touch too much arrogance to introspect on this line of questioning so he probably wont. And hey! Thats ok. Leo is still overall more conscious than your average person and I'm sure lots of people will benefit from him and HAD already benefitted from him A LOT. All the best for him.

Well, I've never said 'you' are different or separate from this 'ultimate reality'. I think you misunderstand the term 'outside of your mind' I'm not talking about some separate reality OUT THERE inherently different from your conscious experiences. I'm saying that the ultimate reality is ABSOLUTELY NOT the way you experience the chair, coffee cup, or apples. I'm saying you are an INTIMATE and ABSOLUTE part of this ultimate reality. I hope you also agree on that. What I'm saying is that you have NO WAY of experiencing that ultimate truth with your human brains and meditation techniques and psychedelics DIRECTLY! You can however, experience this with absolute certainty INDIRECTLY. See, Leo thinks he is accessing some special knowledge or experience in psychedelics. That those said experiences mean everything to him in his progress of spirituality and understaning as a whole. These are actually huge blunders. Experiences doesnt mean anything. All experiences are constructs of one's brain/mind/imagination-survival machine.You need to see how your mind constructs all that 'alien awakening' and actually is INCAPABLE of experiencing the ultimate reality directly. Not even with fancy meditation techniques or with daily psychedelic usage etc. That understanding is emptiness and not even psychedelic experiences can give you 'a way out'. All you can ever experience are concoctions of your mind and brain's processing. Is brain a part of this imaginary reality. OF COURSE! That pink squishy soft substance is also just as illusory as a body. But obviously, brain, IN THE WAY WE EXPERIENCE IT AS A PINK SUBSTANCE, is an illusion. Its function is still important and ultimately unique in the sense that it can change the contents and experiences in consciousness. But again, chasing experiences and overall content are NOT what we are interested in in spirituality. Emptiness is extremely misunderstood in the mainstream context but is a very profound insight. Once thats understood, THEN you'll actually understand what these masters are talking about when they say 'ultimate not knowing'. Not in the sense of 'being uncertain' or whatever but understanding the limitations of human brains when it comes to the pursuit of spirituality.E

See, once we understand that reality is empty of being what it appears to us to be, and why, then questions about whether the things we perceive actually exist or not become irrelevant. “Things” exist – but only in our minds. “Something” exists outside of our minds, there is an Ultimate Reality, but we can never perceive that reality directly. You can't tip toe around this point. We can never have a direct experience of ultimate reality, but we can have a direct experience that reveals this fact to us – a direct experience of Emptiness. Liberating insight comes through this realization of Emptiness. Ignorance is destroyed, the illusion we have been trapped in for our entire lives is dispelled, and true wisdom follows. Claims like 'MY mind is the only thing that exists. There is no ultimate reality any deeper than these visuals, sounds, feelings and experiences of my consciousness (or any profound state of consciousness created via the use of psychedelics). THIS IS IT! CONSCIOUSNESS IS THE ONLY THING THAT EXISTS. CONSCIOUS EXPERIENCES ARE REALLY IMPORTANT. I've awakened to Aliens in my psychedelic sessions etc.' is a mistaken claim (in the particular way that Leo is talking about) that has been initiated by the profoundity of psychedelic usage. See, these are challenging experiences to understand LET ALONE extract their wisdom. It is so easy to turn towards the wrong alley and make big blunders which forms the basis of the rest of your explorations. And what Leo did, in my opinion, is to take the wrong turn on the path. If you think using psychedelics provides ANY user with perfect understanding and absolute liberation from the illusion just read the trip reports of 90% of common people. OR even majority of people who 'claim' to be on the path of spirituality. Psychedelics DO show you aspects of the truth REAAALLLLY deeply but it also confuses and provides incomplete maturation for the uninitiated without a strong spiritual foundation. And I dont know if you are aware of this, but Leo basically has little to no skills in parsing or experiencing the truths of spirituality without his precious 5 meo DMTs and DPTs and whatnot. Stuff people take to progress on the path, not to get stuck there for years. I do understand Leo actually but he is not aware how problematic this path he has chosen is for himself as he also has lots of arrogance. Call it completely unrelated to his spiritual journey. No, actually it is related and his very solid and arrogant leo avatar is getting in the way of his spiritual explorations in psychedelic sessions. The same arrogance that is making it impossible for him to develop skills of introspection and concentration without psychedelic assistance and embodying ANY insight to any deep degree. Tip toeing the issue by saying 'I value peak understanding, not embodiment' etc. Yeah. I totally get him. But I'm not sure he gets what he is missing out on and all the blind spots of his arrogance

Well, I already explained why our insights are not the same (but similar for sure) and you subscribe to what I'd view as 'mind only' school of non duality. (which is also why you subscribe to solipsism where I dont) Which makes the said assumptions I laid out in the posts and in the replies. You need to address them to have an internally consistent paradigm. This is not about 'being scientific' or whatever. A paradigm's fundamental processes needs to be internally consistent to be taken seriously. Non duality is ABSOLUTELY true. But solipsistic mind only - non duality you subscribe to, isnt

And I 100% agree with that