Important! - Nobody On This Forum Is AWAKE

[Devin]

33 minutes ago, SBJ said:

Are any of you realizing the HUGE red flag this post of Leo is? If anything, saying he is the ONLY one on the PLANET who is really awake, is indicative of narcisism, ego and a huge messiah complex.

For those who actually think for themselves, like Leo tells you you should do, this post alone should be enough to never listen to Leo again, at least if it comes to spiritual topics. If spirituality is important to you, continue meditating and doing your stuff, you don't need Leo for this.

If him saying he is the ONLY ONE ON THE PLANET who is awake is not enough for you to immediately stop taking him seriously, you are seriously deluded and dogmatic. Following such a cult-like leader will NEVER bring you enlightenment/awakening/God realization or whatever you think you are after.

          There's only three users out of thirty in this thread that don't think there's a problem and haven't tried to put Leo on the ignore list. You can't put any mods on ignore for some reason. I think he posts inflammatory claims to get people chatting and coming up with insights, but I think it drives the insightful people away.

Edited March 28, 2023 by Devin

[Breakingthewall]

22 minutes ago, OldManCorcoran said:

He is saying there isn't anybody who understands, because there is only the understanding itself. Like there isn't anybody who hears a sound there is only the sound itself. The fact of being appearing as understanding, being appearing as sound.

It is a very consistent framework where the witness is dropped from all pictures. Whenever you say you _, then this user would frame it as just _. Like that post.

1 hour ago, axiom said:

@OldManCorcoran 

 

It's the same. what there is is existence, you can call it self or if you don't like that word, another. if there is understanding, there is. existence understands itself. it is indifferent that there is no witness. the witness is created to be a witness for existence. you go deeper and deeper and you understand more clearly since existence is you, even if you are a creation, you are existence. there is no real/unreal dichotomy, there is what is, and what is is understanding

[Ramu]

Leo:  a little clarity on alien consciousness.   Do you mean alien, as in God consciousness is alien to the human egoic consciousness or alien consciousness being separate from my God Realization...i.e., another God?  It's like you're intentionally misleading us with questionable terms.

[spiritual memes]

5 hours ago, Squeekytoy said:

Truth is not an experience at all, why the hell would truth be an experience... All experience is subjective, do you think truth is subjective? Do you think what's true depends on who you ask or when you ask them, or what chemicals are floating through their brain?

No but someone's access to the truth is absolutely an experience. If you disagree, then why do you need a fuckton of 5-meo to realise truth? If it isn't an experience, then why do you need psychedelics? Why do you need literal chemicals floating through your brain to realise truth?

5 hours ago, Squeekytoy said:

And why is that? Isn't it to obtain maximum understanding?

Reaching peak states means very little if you can't integrate them into your life. Any understanding will fade once the drugs wear off.

5 hours ago, Squeekytoy said:

Your dichotomy wasn't just false because you presented two examples as if they were of two different alternatives, when they were really just examples of the same.

They are not the same.

Leo's work: Take extreme doses of psychedelics repeatedly to get temporary peak states. Everything else is useless.

Everyone else: Use meditation and other various practices to increase you baseline state of consciousness. Psychedelics are just a glimpse.

5 hours ago, Squeekytoy said:

But also because neither of the alternatives you presented have anything to do with truth at all.

Again, unless you have direct experience of the truth right now, your 'truth' is a meaningless construct. You can play whatever games you want but you aren't awake and know nothing about truth. These are Leo's words not mine. I can talk about god realization and solipsism and infinite love, but they are just mental games unless I am awake. The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao.

[Thought Art]

@spiritual memes You are wrong about psychedelics not increasing baseline state. Mushrooms for example removed any glimpse of suicidal thought from my mind for 3 months afterward and one trip was a major life improvement. This was a baseline improvement. 
 

Some of the states offered by tripping you don’t want to be in all the time. that’s why they are bottled up in substance, not constant. 
 

Leo, in my view clearly teaches to balance manual spiritual practices and psychedelics. Don’t distort what he teaches. If you trip but don’t contemplate, and do manual spiritual practice you might as well be a retard.

You don’t understand the distinctions, nuances and paradoxes of relative and absolute truth.

Edited March 28, 2023 by Thought Art

[Moksha]

8 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Are you sure about that? There is only absolute reality, the relative just seems relative. The relative is the absolute, and i think it can be understood. Obviously it's not understandable in the conceptual mind level, the thing is deep understanding, consciousness understanding itself

Absolutely sure, and entirely ignorant of everything else 

Direct realization is where absolute meets relative reality. It is the purest expression of the absolute. Lucidity is the paradoxical intersection of seeing clearly, even within the dream. All forms, thoughts, feelings, experiences, and epiphanies are seen to be imagination, or the absolute pretending to be other than it is.

Comprehension is always conceptual. It is imagination imagining itself. A fun game but not absolute truth, which is only directly realized.

[Devin]

9 minutes ago, Moksha said:

All forms, thoughts, feelings, experiences, and epiphanies are seen to be imagination, or the absolute pretending to be other than it is.

Imagination and pretending are concepts of the mind, so is "the absolute pretending", everything is real.

[Breakingthewall]

43 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Lucidity is the paradoxical intersection of seeing clearly, even within the dream

Yes, that's understanding. And can be deeper

[OldManCorcoran]

3 hours ago, spiritual memes said:

No but someone's access to the truth is absolutely an experience. If you disagree, then why do you need a fuckton of 5-meo to realise truth? If it isn't an experience, then why do you need psychedelics? Why do you need literal chemicals floating through your brain to realise truth?

Because it kills the mind processes which typically obscure what is actual...

[spiritual memes]

2 hours ago, Thought Art said:

@spiritual memes You are wrong about psychedelics not increasing baseline state. Mushrooms for example removed any glimpse of suicidal thought from my mind for 3 months afterward and one trip was a major life improvement. This was a baseline improvement. 

If it was baseline improvement, it wouldn't go away after 3 months it would be permanent. It happened with me as well. I got crazy enlightened with psychedelics but It went away after a few months.

2 hours ago, Thought Art said:

Some of the states offered by tripping you don’t want to be in all the time. that’s why they are bottled up in substance, not constant. 

It's interesting because those states are where you have highest access to truth.

2 hours ago, Thought Art said:

Leo, in my view clearly teaches to balance manual spiritual practices and psychedelics. Don’t distort what he teaches. If you trip but don’t contemplate, and do manual spiritual practice you might as well be a retard.

He used to be like that. Now he has vastly shifted towards the psychedelic end. Pretty much none of his teachings are about meditation, yoga or shadow work and he is mostly talking about states he experiences on extremely high doses of psychedelics.

2 hours ago, Thought Art said:

You don’t understand the distinctions, nuances and paradoxes of relative and absolute truth.

Lol. As I said before, unless you are tripping balls on 5-meo or decades of meditation, neither do you. You can speak all you want but they are empty words. Pointers made by someone who doesn't actually know the direction.

[spiritual memes]

9 minutes ago, OldManCorcoran said:

Because it kills the mind processes which typically obscure what is actual...

yes. 

[Thought Art]

@spiritual memes Well, then meditation doesn’t increase baseline state either. If you stop practicing for a year then… you’ll lose your gains. 
 

You must not be watching Leo’s videos on a regular basis or in completion. Leo talks about all kinds of things. He mentions exactly what I said above a lot. Just because some episodes are focused on tripping doesn’t mean he doesn’t stress the importance of other practices. When he talks about deepest awakenings, yeah that’s psychedelics. Doesn’t mean meditation isn’t useful. 
 

and your last comment. You don’t know. These things require contemplation as well. Not just sitting or tripping. 
 

Baseline state is increased by a combination of practices, tools, and habits used on a regular basis. No single technique will increase baseline state. 

Edited March 28, 2023 by Thought Art

[Kuba Powiertowski]

Well, this hit me recently with enormous power:

"Let me fall if I must fall.

The One I become will catch me."

Ba'al Shem Tov

Still contemplating...

[spiritual memes]

13 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@spiritual memes Well, then meditation doesn’t increase baseline state either. If you stop practicing for a year then… you’ll lose your gains. 

You can meditate every day and integrate it into your lifestyle. This can't be done with psychedelics due to tolerance and the fact that they cause your life to become dysfunctional. Also certain meditative practices like shadow work will increase your baseline state permanently. And its interesting because Leo does not teach shadow work at all. Psychedelics also result in a huge spiritual ego Leo and most of the forum being all the evidence you need.

18 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

You must not be watching Leo’s videos on a regular basis or in completion. Leo talks about all kinds of things. He mentions exactly what I said above a lot. Just because some episodes are focused on tripping doesn’t mean he doesn’t stress the importance of other practices. When he talks about deepest awakenings, yeah that’s psychedelics. Doesn’t mean meditation isn’t useful. 

He hasn't made a meditation video in years. And in case you haven't noticed, his spiritual ego has only gotten bigger. Which tends to happen when you only take psychedelics and neglect the other aspects of spirituality.

21 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

and your last comment. You don’t know. These things require contemplation as well. Not just sitting or tripping. 

And as I said multiple times, neither do you.

23 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

Baseline state is increased by a combination of practices, tools, and habits used on a regular basis. No single technique will increase baseline state. 

Yes. I never disagreed with that.

[Water by the River]

41 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

Well, then meditation doesn’t increase baseline state either. If you stop practicing for a year then… you’ll lose your gains. 

That is not my experience. At some point you take the practice off the pillow into daily life. There are techniques for doing that (for example the Mahamudra-practices described in Pointing out the Great Way, Daniel Brown). Then, it would simply be rather unpleasant to not continue doing it. And the energetic shifts towards emptiness and nonduality continue and increase.

I can imagine that falling back happens happens with something like only sitting-meditation concentration style or Koan-style (Zen, or Theravada-style). But I don't know, that is not the system I used mainly. At least according to my experience, it doesn't happen with something like the Yoga of One Taste of Mahamdura or the Yoga of Unelaboration/Skill of Recognition (Pointing out the Great Way, Brown). I don't see how that could not stick.

And I don't think Genetics is the main part. I didn't have any great genetics,  it took me around 15 years+, but only because I didn't get the efficient techniques at the beginning. If I would have been coached in the right way, it would have been a lot faster. Looking back, using the right techniques is so much key. If you don't, you can bang your head against the wall (or rather stare at it) for a looong time until something happens.

You will not get somebody who failed at most stuff at life and without discipline there. But using the right meditation-techniques and diligence, and as soon as possible roll that out in daily life, then you will be doing fine. General understanding of the technique, diligence, and finding soon a way to make it pleasant. I believe that is key, at least it was for me.

If you look for example at Pointing out the Great Way, Daniel Brown, you have around 300-400 pages on these techniques. It is a very clear defined step-path, with many sub-techniques for each stage. The Tibetans have been doing that 1000 years, and it is in my opinion its the most sophisticated system on the planet. The Zen techniques (Koan and just sitting) look rather.... well, rudimentary compared to that. At least in my perspective. And the Theravada-techniques are not at that level of sophistication. Also just my perspective.

If the meditation doesn't get pleasant after a certain time, in my opinion one is either not using the best techniques available, or is doing something wrong.

Concerning the marvelous spiritual genetics topic: Here we are, in a forum in large parts based on Self-Help and quite a part of Self-Help on male-female dynamics, and there it is forbidden to blame looks, but with meditation we blame genetics. Without really knowing and having no statistics, Just because our meditation technique feels bad or boring (maybe the wrong technique, maybe there is some better stuff available?).

I didn't have any special genetics for meditation, meditation was hard and not pleasant at the beginning, that is why I didn't do too much at the start. Then I stumbled (or rather read about all the different systems) over the right technique, and to this day I marvel on how infinitely much better that made my life.

Today, Selling water by the River, Self Help Mindset Flavor!    ( : sorry, just kidding.

But I really mean all of the above. Never limit the belief in what you can achieve. Of course, don't be unkind to yourself and overload you, but never stop believing!

Here the 2-Year-Old with nearly most of his skin burned who went flying Air Force Jets, including the fastest of them: 

How do you think that 2-year-old would have gone for meditation? Get blocked my limiting beliefs? 

Edited March 28, 2023 by Water by the River

[Ramu]

I guess I missed the punchline for this post Leo.  Pretty strange considering I always get your content.  But now I'm really stumped.  So you're saying we're not really awake and we haven't made any progress and we're no further along than we were at the beginning.   Isn't that just the inspiration I just needed.  Hey Eric, you don't know jack shit about anything...so I guess a thank you is in order?

[OldManCorcoran]

5 minutes ago, Ramu said:

I guess I missed the punchline for this post Leo.  Pretty strange considering I always get your content.  But now I'm really stumped.  So you're saying we're not really awake and we haven't made any progress and we're no further along than we were at the beginning.   Isn't that just the inspiration I just needed.  Hey Eric, you don't know jack shit about anything...so I guess a thank you is in order?

Only Leo can ever achieve anything. We are all just pathetic peasants who should beg at his feet for him to bestow us with even a miniscule of his Messianic power. How dare you think you could ever be as amazing as Leo.

[Jowblob]

Just now, OldManCorcoran said:

Only Leo can ever achieve anything. We are all just pathetic peasants who should beg at his feet for him to bestow us with even a miniscule of his Messianic power. How dare you think you could ever be as amazing as Leo.

you made Leo , lol

[Ramu]

@OldManCorcoran I know it's fucking ridiculous.   Thanks for your post!

[Ramu]

I consider myself awake and God realized.  I have a ways to go, and I'm excited about exploring consciousness more.  As far as the Alien Consciousness thing, I'll tune in again when there's more clarity.  I'm getting a little put out with this I Am The Master horseshit.

I AM YOU, Leo, so of course I'm awake.