Thoughts on « why men cheat » video

[Roy]

7 hours ago, Humble said:

By the world social status, 2% percent of men cheat vs 13 % of women.

Source? Almost every statistic I've EVER seen shows that men cheat more than women.

There is a false narrative that's painted that makes it seem like men are bigger victims in this domain, but it's mostly just excessive whining because it appears there is more of a wounding factor to male pride/ego when it's betrayed. Also there is an unspoken expectation that women are "supposed" to be more loyal in their nature because of the raising children factor, while men cheating gets somewhat of a cultural pass within the gender for being a "player", and in this very thread people talking about how it's slightly ok because of the male primal urge for variety lmao. The betrayal of these archetypes may cut deep but it doesn't reflect reality.

Women are more faithful and trustworthy, this is just factually the case.

 

[Gregory1]

2 hours ago, Gesundheit2 said:

It's not as simple as it sounds...

There are various things to consider here that might explain why that desire can turn into action:

• This desire for variety is rarely talked about during the initial phases of a relationship. The woman usually assumes that the man will be loyal only to her without actually addressing his true authentic desires.
• The woman does not even want to admit that possibility to herself, let alone encouraging her partner to confess about it. What if polyamory was his true authentic desire? Does that mean the end of a potentially good relationship? Even worse, what if it he wasn't aware of his desire but she awakened him to it? Doesn't that sub-communicate a submission of some kind on her part?
• The man assumes that he will not need another woman next to the one he's committing to. He doesn't know himself fully yet.
• The average male is not conscious enough to know himself fully. Therefore, the desire for variety will manifest later after fulfilling the more basic desire for sex.
• Thanks to feminism, the norm nowadays is to have only one partner. This makes the discussion suggested above more awkward and less likely to happen.
• Even if that discussion takes place, the man won't likely be able to tell the truth (assuming he knows himself fully), because that'll hurt his chances with the current woman, and therefore take him from monogamy down to "no gamy" 

There are probably more points to consider, but that should be a good start for a discussion.

Great points, very differentiated and well explained! 

I again want to mention, it is not a matter of the man's choice to be polyamore. It's genetic. Same thing with women being mono.

[Harlen Kelly]

@Etherial Cat 

1 - I asked for tangible info in regards to this topic, not what your profession was , why do you feel the need to qualify yourself to me? This is not an interview.

2 - *no sense, not no-sense.

3 - Search the definition of anti-intellectual and contrast it with the response you gave when I asked for tangible information, the adjective fits your response perfectly.

Edited July 5, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[Etherial Cat]

15 hours ago, Etherial Cat said:

I don't navigate through life or on this forum to back up all my claims with academics. Actualized.org is a post-rationalist environnement which use models that flies well over current studies and the discussions in here are not slowed down by playing the game of stage Orange research and quotations. 

That said, If you've got studies on the matter, you are free to share them with us.  The burden of proof to reverse what several other members including males have said about their experience is on you, not on me.

You didn't get what I meant there it seems. If you want academic papers and datas, you pull them off. I'm not going to do the job for you.

15 hours ago, Harlen Kelly said:

@Etherial Cat In other words, you adopted this ideological position based on merely unsound beliefs and not any tangible information or observation. Very predictable and unsurprising. 

By the way, being post-rational does not equal being anti-intellectual, being uninformed or even worse, forming maps of reality based on no tangible observations. 

You're jumping to theses conclusions out of nowhere.

These assumptions are based on nothing but your interpretations of my thought process, and they are incorrect.

10 hours ago, Harlen Kelly said:

@Etherial Cat 

1 - I asked for tangible info in regards to this topic, not what your profession was , why do you feel the need to qualify yourself to me? This is not an interview.

And my answer has been that the burden of providing the informations you requested is yours. 

--

And I'm not qualifying myself to you. I'm pointing out that your assumptions are even more ridiculous due to what I have credential for.

You've depicted me numerous time as someone basing its claims on arguments based on "feelings", "unsounds beliefs", "no tangible information or observation" and of "being anti-intellectual". And basically, logical argumentation within an academic context is my main occupation.

Assuming that I don't know how to base my thinking via observation is just therefore outlandish. 

10 hours ago, Harlen Kelly said:

3 - Search the definition of anti-intellectual and contrast it with the response you gave when I asked for tangible information, the adjective fits your response perfectly.

What I have stated is nothing but the common stance of most forum members on academics, including Leo. 

https://www.actualized.org/insights/understanding-better-than-academics

Edited July 5, 2021 by Etherial Cat

[Emerald]

9 minutes ago, flume said:

Here are all the problems I have with the video

• As a woman, if you’re going down the path of trying to “keep your man loyal”, you’ve already lost imo.
  
  A woman who knows her worth and has adequate self esteem wouldn’t spend her time worrying about being cheated on. Even less would she compensate by tweaking her appearance and behaviour in any way to prevent that from happening. And a good man wouldn’t want that from her either. You’re actually lowering your “value” (if you will; even though this term is horrible) by being so insecure. She would expect being worthy of love without having to constantly “prove herself” and jerking herself around. And if her man does something they have not agreed on, she’d move on.
  
  And with this attitude, only good men will make it to your door.
   
• “He cheats on you because you give him bad sex. Or no sex at all.” Damn. So backwards. Good sex is an outcome of openness and trust. Hearing this will close down woman so much more. It actually took me a lot of compassion and deep breathing to get through the video and I can see how it makes woman feel so terrible about themselves.
   
• Lumping together attraction and relationships like that is really mudding the waters. It’s true that he’s not choosing to get attracted, but he’s choosing what to do with it. A relationship is a commitment to support and grow with each other, which means you have to be in constant communication. If you can't talk to your partner about your desires, what's the point of the relationship? And if you can't control your dick enough to not hurt your girlfriend and do smth you haven't agreed upon, why be with her in the first place?
  
  It’s also not like cheating is only bad for the woman. It’s bad for men too. If a man doesn’t stand by his words it makes his weak and split. It stifles his integrity, grounding and flow.
   
• Why can’t we just look at the problem directly? Is something happens in a relationship that isn’t agreed upon, people get hurt. Why hurt people? This can only happen if there's one of those things going on imo:
  
  Incompatibility
  Trauma
  Low self esteem
  Lack of communication
  
  It’s not rocket science.
  
  Work these things out. There are plenty of tools available. But don't put the other sex in charge of fixing your problem.
   
• Leo has done a great job at making a video that is just feeding into the insecurities women already have without providing them a healthy way out of it. And it kinda makes me angry. Let’s hope my future daughter never sees this video. Stage orange elbow society to the max. Partial af. I’m disappointed this is still on youtube to be honest, I’d expect Leo to take such shit down already.

Maybe you should have titled the video "Why weak men who can’t communicate what they need and don’t know what they want cheat."

TLTR: Work on your self esteem, attraction =/= relationships, men are more than animals, partial video that is counterproductive for women watching it.

Why not make a video that shows women how to develop adequate self esteem and men how to handle their urges responsibly instead?

Great post! 

[intotheblack]

5 minutes ago, flume said:

Here are all the problems I have with the video

• As a woman, if you’re going down the path of trying to “keep your man loyal”, you’ve already lost imo.
  
  A woman who knows her worth and has adequate self esteem wouldn’t spend her time worrying about being cheated on. Even less would she compensate by tweaking her appearance and behaviour in any way to prevent that from happening. And a good man wouldn’t want that from her either. You’re actually lowering your “value” (if you will; even though this term is horrible) by being so insecure. She would expect being worthy of love without having to constantly “prove herself” and jerking herself around. And if her man does something they have not agreed on, she’d move on.
  
  And with this attitude, only good men will make it to your door.
   
• “He cheats on you because you give him bad sex. Or no sex at all.” Damn. So backwards. Good sex is an outcome of openness and trust. Hearing this will close down woman so much more. It actually took me a lot of compassion and deep breathing to get through the video and I can see how it makes woman feel so terrible about themselves.
   
• Lumping together attraction and relationships like that is really mudding the waters. It’s true that he’s not choosing to get attracted, but he’s choosing what to do with it. A relationship is a commitment to support and grow with each other, which means you have to be in constant communication. If you can't talk to your partner about your desires, what's the point of the relationship? And if you can't control your dick enough to not hurt your girlfriend and do smth you haven't agreed upon, why be with her in the first place?
  
  It’s also not like cheating is only bad for the woman. It’s bad for men too. If a man doesn’t stand by his words it makes his weak and split. It stifles his integrity, grounding and flow.
   
• Why can’t we just look at the problem directly? Is something happens in a relationship that isn’t agreed upon, people get hurt. Why hurt people? This can only happen if there's one of those things going on imo:
  
  Incompatibility
  Trauma
  Low self esteem
  Lack of communication
  
  It’s not rocket science.
  
  Work these things out. There are plenty of tools available. But don't put the other sex in charge of fixing your problem.
   
• Leo has done a great job at making a video that is just feeding into the insecurities women already have without providing them a healthy way out of it. And it kinda makes me angry. Let’s hope my future daughter never sees this video. Stage orange elbow society to the max. Partial af. I’m disappointed this is still on youtube to be honest, I’d expect Leo to take such shit down already.

Maybe you should have titled the video "Why weak men who can’t communicate what they need and don’t know what they want cheat."

TLTR: Work on your self esteem, attraction =/= relationships, men are more than animals, partial video that is counterproductive for women watching it.

Why not make a video that shows women how to develop adequate self esteem and men how to handle their urges responsibly instead?

? 

I’m also surprised that video is still on there. It’s 7 years old, I wonder if Leo’s views have changed since then. 

[Nahm]

On 6/30/2021 at 0:04 PM, Clems said:

Hey! I just watched leo’s video ( why men cheat ) but i can’t understand why everything is about sex.. can’t i just live my life in peace why should i care how i’ll look in men’s eyes why should i care of anything, i just wanna be happy, sex is good and important in relationships,  but is really another beautiful girl with a really nice body gonna make a man fall in love with her even tho his girlfriend is sweet and funny and all the good stuff? Is men really that dumb ? How much it’ll take them to find that perfect girlfriend that she won’t push them look for other women or to have sex with others .. all of this is just non sense, sure dumb men will do that. And to me i don’t really trust men, men can do anything.. but what makes me question if is this real is that a straight male friend that i have once told me that he doesn’t care about sex, masturbation, girls.. he told me if a really beautiful girl that is literally so gorgeous and with a really nice body stood up naked in front of him he won’t be interested in her, i mean yeah same for me that’s the thoughts i have too, but he’s a man so that explains that there’s men who won’t fall easy for a girl if they'll chose not to. There’s for sure a lot of guys who are like him but not everyone’s is like that. But i believe men will get tired for looking for women with high values, when they’ll start being mature.

It's nice to find a girlfriend in your type but there's things more interesting than chasing girls and looking for the best.

No men are really like that. Awareness is funny. Convincing. But indeed, unfettered. 

[Nahm]

23 minutes ago, flume said:

Here are all the problems I have with the video

• As a woman, if you’re going down the path of trying to “keep your man loyal”, you’ve already lost imo.
  
  A woman who knows her worth and has adequate self esteem wouldn’t spend her time worrying about being cheated on. Even less would she compensate by tweaking her appearance and behaviour in any way to prevent that from happening. And a good man wouldn’t want that from her either. You’re actually lowering your “value” (if you will; even though this term is horrible) by being so insecure. She would expect being worthy of love without having to constantly “prove herself” and jerking herself around. And if her man does something they have not agreed on, she’d move on.
  
  And with this attitude, only good men will make it to your door.
   
• “He cheats on you because you give him bad sex. Or no sex at all.” Damn. So backwards. Good sex is an outcome of openness and trust. Hearing this will close down woman so much more. It actually took me a lot of compassion and deep breathing to get through the video and I can see how it makes woman feel so terrible about themselves.
   
• Lumping together attraction and relationships like that is really mudding the waters. It’s true that he’s not choosing to get attracted, but he’s choosing what to do with it. A relationship is a commitment to support and grow with each other, which means you have to be in constant communication. If you can't talk to your partner about your desires, what's the point of the relationship? And if you can't control your dick enough to not hurt your girlfriend and do smth you haven't agreed upon, why be with her in the first place?
  
  It’s also not like cheating is only bad for the woman. It’s bad for men too. If a man doesn’t stand by his words it makes his weak and split. It stifles his integrity, grounding and flow.
   
• Why can’t we just look at the problem directly? Is something happens in a relationship that isn’t agreed upon, people get hurt. Why hurt people? This can only happen if there's one of those things going on imo:
  
  Incompatibility
  Trauma
  Low self esteem
  Lack of communication
  
  It’s not rocket science.
  
  Work these things out. There are plenty of tools available. But don't put the other sex in charge of fixing your problem.
   
• Leo has done a great job at making a video that is just feeding into the insecurities women already have without providing them a healthy way out of it. And it kinda makes me angry. Let’s hope my future daughter never sees this video. Stage orange elbow society to the max. Partial af. I’m disappointed this is still on youtube to be honest, I’d expect Leo to take such shit down already.

Maybe you should have titled the video "Why weak men who can’t communicate what they need and don’t know what they want cheat."

TLTR: Work on your self esteem, attraction =/= relationships, men are more than animals, partial video that is counterproductive for women watching it.

Why not make a video that shows women how to develop adequate self esteem and men how to handle their urges responsibly instead?

Mic. Drop. 

[Zeroguy]

@flume Hey!

Not funny. 

[Zeroguy]

Papa Zero indeed stopped or atlest bringed it down to minimum. 

God bless women with average dudes and what they can expect. 

[Zeroguy]

If you love her find her a frog . OK roger that. 

Hahahahaha 

[Nahm]

Put a ring on ‘it’ ?.

[Gesundheit2]

@flume I actually did not know that Leo made such a video until this thread, and even then I haven't watched it. Apparently, my reasoning for cheating is quite different from the video.

1 hour ago, flume said:

• As a woman, if you’re going down the path of trying to “keep your man loyal”, you’ve already lost imo.
  
  A woman who knows her worth and has adequate self esteem wouldn’t spend her time worrying about being cheated on. Even less would she compensate by tweaking her appearance and behaviour in any way to prevent that from happening. And a good man wouldn’t want that from her either. You’re actually lowering your “value” (if you will; even though this term is horrible) by being so insecure. She would expect being worthy of love without having to constantly “prove herself” and jerking herself around. And if her man does something they have not agreed on, she’d move on.
  
  And with this attitude, only good men will make it to your door.

I agree with you here. In my view, it doesn't matter how good the sex is or how beautiful, great, smart, and funny the woman is. When a man cheats on his woman, it's almost always about him, not about her. Male sexuality is very impersonal. Even if she's the world's most beautiful woman and the world's greatest mother and all the great things in the world, at some point his attraction towards her will decrease and then he will start seeking other women even if they're "less" than her. And "less" here is his own rational judgement. So, he actually knows and understands and even appreciates all the good things that she is, but he will still seek another sexual partner, regardless.

So, yes, you shouldn't seek to keep your man loyal.

1 hour ago, flume said:

• “He cheats on you because you give him bad sex. Or no sex at all.” Damn. So backwards. Good sex is an outcome of openness and trust. Hearing this will close down woman so much more. It actually took me a lot of compassion and deep breathing to get through the video and I can see how it makes woman feel so terrible about themselves.

Good sex for men is not the same thing as good sex for women. Good sex for men is mostly physical and perceptive (has to do with the senses, sights, sounds, etc...). Emotional connection is not a prerequisite for good sex for men, even though it's definitely appreciated. You needn't get triggered here, it's just practical advice.

However, bad sex is very different from no sex at all. No sex at all is his responsibility, while bad sex is her responsibility.

1 hour ago, flume said:

• Lumping together attraction and relationships like that is really mudding the waters. It’s true that he’s not choosing to get attracted, but he’s choosing what to do with it. A relationship is a commitment to support and grow with each other, which means you have to be in constant communication. If you can't talk to your partner about your desires, what's the point of the relationship? And if you can't control your dick enough to not hurt your girlfriend and do smth you haven't agreed upon, why be with her in the first place?

It’s also not like cheating is only bad for the woman. It’s bad for men too. If a man doesn’t stand by his words it makes his weak and split. It stifles his integrity, grounding and flow.

• Why can’t we just look at the problem directly? Is something happens in a relationship that isn’t agreed upon, people get hurt. Why hurt people? This can only happen if there's one of those things going on imo:
  
  Incompatibility
  Trauma
  Low self esteem
  Lack of communication
  
  It’s not rocket science.
  
  Work these things out. There are plenty of tools available. But don't put the other sex in charge of fixing your problem.

Easy for you to say these things when you don't have the same urges. And they are indeed powerful urges. No kidding.

It's not necessarily "bad" or a "problem", but I see your point.

1 hour ago, flume said:

A relationship is a commitment to support and grow with each other.

And "cheating" doesn't necessarily break that commitment. Of course, that assumes there aren't already huge problems existing within the relationship, like lack of trust and communication. If there are already huge problems, then cheating is not really the actual problem, but really a scapegoat for and a doubling-down on the lack of communication. Either way, I would inquire into why people take it so seriously and consider it very threatening to the relationship.

1 hour ago, flume said:

Maybe you should have titled the video "Why weak men who can’t communicate what they need and don’t know what they want cheat."

Agreed.

Edited July 5, 2021 by Gesundheit2

[Zeroguy]

12 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Put a ring on ‘it’ ?.

One day. I know I won't make a mistake. 

[Nahm]

@Gesundheit2

There’s a full circle that’ll blow your mind. The masculine / feminine paradigm can help loosen & untangle. Having a lot of meaningless sex is helpful too. 

@Zeroguy 

Was just some sword / halo humor brother. 

[Zeroguy]

49 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Gesundheit2

There’s a full circle that’ll blow your mind. The masculine / feminine paradigm can help loosen & untangle. Having a lot of meaningless sex is helpful too. 

?

Glorious youth.

49 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Zeroguy 

Was just some sword / halo humor brother. 

When I come to US it will all be fixed within a month.

[Zeroguy]

I make my own tacos. 

Khm khm regarding this man/female war. I mean I shouldn't take any side. 

Love and wisdom and you are good to go.

[Nos7algiK]

2 hours ago, flume said:

Here are all the problems I have with the video

• As a woman, if you’re going down the path of trying to “keep your man loyal”, you’ve already lost imo.
  
  A woman who knows her worth and has adequate self esteem wouldn’t spend her time worrying about being cheated on. Even less would she compensate by tweaking her appearance and behaviour in any way to prevent that from happening. And a good man wouldn’t want that from her either. You’re actually lowering your “value” (if you will; even though this term is horrible) by being so insecure. She would expect being worthy of love without having to constantly “prove herself” and jerking herself around. And if her man does something they have not agreed on, she’d move on.
  
  And with this attitude, only good men will make it to your door.
   
• “He cheats on you because you give him bad sex. Or no sex at all.” Damn. So backwards. Good sex is an outcome of openness and trust. Hearing this will close down woman so much more. It actually took me a lot of compassion and deep breathing to get through the video and I can see how it makes woman feel so terrible about themselves.
   
• Lumping together attraction and relationships like that is really mudding the waters. It’s true that he’s not choosing to get attracted, but he’s choosing what to do with it. A relationship is a commitment to support and grow with each other, which means you have to be in constant communication. If you can't talk to your partner about your desires, what's the point of the relationship? And if you can't control your dick enough to not hurt your girlfriend and do smth you haven't agreed upon, why be with her in the first place?
  
  It’s also not like cheating is only bad for the woman. It’s bad for men too. If a man doesn’t stand by his words it makes his weak and split. It stifles his integrity, grounding and flow.
   
• Why can’t we just look at the problem directly? Is something happens in a relationship that isn’t agreed upon, people get hurt. Why hurt people? This can only happen if there's one of those things going on imo:
  
  Incompatibility
  Trauma
  Low self esteem
  Lack of communication
  
  It’s not rocket science.
  
  Work these things out. There are plenty of tools available. But don't put the other sex in charge of fixing your problem.
   
• Leo has done a great job at making a video that is just feeding into the insecurities women already have without providing them a healthy way out of it. And it kinda makes me angry. Let’s hope my future daughter never sees this video. Stage orange elbow society to the max. Partial af. I’m disappointed this is still on youtube to be honest, I’d expect Leo to take such shit down already.

Maybe you should have titled the video "Why weak men who can’t communicate what they need and don’t know what they want cheat."

TLTR: Work on your self esteem, attraction =/= relationships, men are more than animals, partial video that is counterproductive for women watching it.

Why not make a video that shows women how to develop adequate self esteem and men how to handle their urges responsibly instead?

Well said! ?

[Arcangelo]

I didn't like the mescaline story

@flowboy

On 7/4/2021 at 7:15 AM, flowboy said:

But you are only stuck until the day you decide to not be stuck anymore.

But I like this.

[Arcangelo]

Everybody knows that a man's loyalty is directly correlated with his options.

No options = faithful man

Options = unfaithful man

 

Easy game ladies. It's very simple. Don't look for complexity where there is not.

Have fun

 

Arc