Soonhei (Member of this community) killed himself to experience Conscious Death. :-(

[jimwell]

@Muhammad Jawad

Thanks for letting us know about his death. I hope death is heaven for him. How do you feel by the way? If you really are very close to him, you must be feeling very dark and heavy (serious depression). Especially if you are already experiencing other existential and spiritual crisis.

I recommend to "consciously" grieve. Feel that dark, heavy "hole" located inside your chest or stomach. Don't repress it by working too much, drinking coffee, getting high on drugs, etc. to forget it all. If you do so, there's a big chance it will murder your body. I know this via intuition and observation. I have heard of these stories a few times. But I can cite an example of a former colleague who lost his sister to dengue. He said he experienced too much pain, he repressed it by always working and drinking coffee. After about a week, he suddenly collapsed and experienced NDE. According to him, he lost control or sense of his entire body and he knew he was going to die. He started to cry then suddenly saw flashes of memories (from childhood to the point of collapsing). He cried even more and got completely horrified of his impending death.

But a miracle happened, he survived.

If the pain located inside your chest or stomach becomes too intense and unbearable, touch your chest or stomach then massage it in a circular motion. Deeply feel the pain then have the intention of easing it via the circular massage. You can adjust the circumference of the circular motion depending on the size of the pain located inside your chest or stomach. It magically works and eases the pain. That is at least true to me. It might also be true to you. So, try it.

But the pain comes and goes and intensifies from to time. Endure the grieving process until you feel better. It is important to endure the pain and not give up on life even if you feel like it.

It's also important to refresh your soul and do something you love. For me, taking long walks in nature while contemplating about life and admiring the beauty I see always refreshes my soul. I also feel my connection to the Source during these long walks. Doing that might also help you.

In the end, you are alone in your spiritual journey. You can ask others for answers but they will never be satisfying. You will only be satisfied when you derive the answers yourself. Be self-responsible and self-reliant.

 

[Display_Name]

22 minutes ago, The0Self said:

In Patreon meetings with Jim Newman, for instance, if someone brings up suicide, Jim tells them "I'll buy you the rope." Basically the exact opposite happens here.

Lmaooo Jim is such a joker

[The0Self]

3 minutes ago, Display_Name said:

Lmaooo Jim is such a joker

Ironically "I'll buy you the rope" seems to have "worked" thus far to my knowledge. No one in that community has done it yet lol

[Surfingthewave]

@jimwell

That was a beautiful post thank you.

[RMQualtrough]

13 minutes ago, sda said:

I think Leo is correct. We should stop distorting and lying on Leo's teachings. I dont want him to stop sharing teachings although I dont know about it yet.

 

 

I think we should take this action because if Leo stop sharing his teachings I will not be alive anymore because my life has radically revolutionized and continue to, due to Leo Gura teachings. 

 

I propose to support such people and not distort Leos teachings. If they are not getting support through the forum then ban them so that people can stop distorting Leos teachings and these suicidal people can go to some better professional.

Just send them to the suicide subreddit. Sometimes people in that condition will not go to see a professional, and the Samaritans etc you know are BSing you with a script.

Do you know who was one of the most successful suicide hotline workers of all time. No joke... Ted Bundy. Lmao.

People aren't stupid. They don't want to know someone is just saying empty words that aren't actually true because the script tells them to.

Sometimes online communities like on Reddit are more accessible to people in trouble.

[Dreamcatcher]

43 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

This idea that anything whatsoever in these teachings is even remotely close to suicide needs to end right now. There is no such confusion in the mind of any reasonable or sane person. Please stop spreading such rumors. Keep in mind that if you guys insist on promoting such ideas about my work, I will stop sharing my teachings with you entirely. And then you will be all on your own.

I think this can't be stressed enough. But if you're mentally unstable or clinically ill, taking spiritual ideas in some distorted way can do harm. But that's because being mentally unstable or clinically ill will cause harm - either to yourself or others. It's unreasonable to make teachings responsible for that. It's always the psyche that tries to make sense of something and if that sense is distorted, it will have its effect. What exactly was the case, can only be guessed. My fair guess is that to some extend sprirituality served (for any reason) as a gateway out.

[Leo Gura]

I want to clarity for people who might be reading this anew that measures will be taken to further minimize misunderstanding of the teachings and make things extra clear regarding suicide and other potential dangers and how to avoid them. So don't get the idea that nothing is being done or no feedback is being listened to.

Making the teachings safer and clearer is something I hold as important.

But you also need to understand that they will never be fool-proof and people will ignore warnings even when they are given. The kind of people who are most susceptible to misusing the teachings are precisely those who will tend to skip over warnings.

[kinesin]

@Leo Gura  This is fair.  I believe that ultimately, all a reasonable person can ask for is to make whatever efforts are within our power to minimize needless suffering, but not to completely erase it at all costs.  Tragic outcomes cannot be completely immunized against, there's no set of rules or regulations which would completely and utterly protect every individual from even the slightest harm.  That said, the fact that it's impossible to negate 100% of the issue doesn't mean we shouldn't seek to address even 1% of it.  Your brand, this community, is ultimately a fluid living organism which must be shaped by truth and informed by the heart.  When situations like this or Connor occur, this is essentially God knocking on the window and saying "psst... you may want to change something a bit here".  This is the sentiment behind people's concern for the future of the community - this is why people are prompting you to consider what can possibly be done.

You know I've been an outspoken critic of you, but I consider myself to be a fair one.  You've listened to the concerns of the community, you've listened to the hints God has given and I respect you for being fluid enough to respond and evolve appropriately here.

[StarStruck]

Some people use this tragedy to project their daddy issues on Leo. 

The point is that you shouldn't do hard-core spirituality if you have mental or emotional problems and can't afford therapy. 

Is this fair? No it is not fair but this is how it is. I wouldn't do spirituality if I couldn't afford therapy. 

Edited May 20, 2021 by StarStruck

[jimwell]

34 minutes ago, Surfingthewave said:

@jimwell

That was a beautiful post thank you.

My pleasure. I just did what I needed to do.

[How to be wise]

People who commit suicide to attain enlightenment or escape suffering will never realise that it doesn’t work, because there is no experience after death, so you can’t experience the goal that you wanted. The person who kills himself to escape suffering will not experience peace after he dies, because there is no ‘him’ anymore. He doesn’t experience ‘the end of suffering’, so his suffering doesn’t really end. 

[tuckerwphotography]

2 hours ago, Mu_ said:

The best way I can answer this for you is if I were to cut off your penis would it hurt, would you be left with the pain and difficulty of what that means your life from that point on?

@Mu_ Yes, but that example involves me, which is right here right now. I was asking about somebody else like my cousin in Georgia. If he gets his penis cut off, and I don't know about it, did it actually happen?

[How to be wise]

@Petals Imagine falling asleep whilst working. Notice that you will only realise that you fell asleep after you wake up! Before you wake up, you don’t know that you fell asleep. Similarly, the person who kills himself won’t really know that their suffering ended, because to realise that, you need to wake up first, which can’t happen anymore.

[billiesimon]

16 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Unfortunately that does not stop the trolls and cynics.

But we shall see. I expect backlash over all this regardless. We will try to make the best of it. 

Probably your answer is yes, but I'll ask.

Going meta on this possible backlash... is it a challenge created by the Self/God to put you to test and evolve even more? 

I mean... From the highest perspective you're just being tested even more inside "the dream", right? 

[RMQualtrough]

1 minute ago, How to be wise said:

@Petals Imagine falling asleep whilst working. Notice that you will only realise that you fell asleep after you wake up! Before you wake up, you don’t know that you fell asleep. Similarly, the person who kills himself won’t really know that their suffering ended, because to realise that, you need to wake up first, which can’t happen anymore.

I think there's motivation not necessarily to experience an end to suffering, but to prevent experiencing MORE suffering.

[Scholar]

12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Christianity, Judaism, and Islam tell you that if you die you are going to heaven. But who interprets that as an invitation to jump off a bridge?

These religions actually tell you that if you commit suicide you go to hell. But those that do say committing Jihad grants you heaven actually do lead to people interpreting that as an invitation to blowing themselves up together with others.

[The0Self]

50 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

People who commit suicide to attain enlightenment or escape suffering will never realise that it doesn’t work, because there is no experience after death, so you can’t experience the goal that you wanted. The person who kills himself to escape suffering will not experience peace after he dies, because there is no ‘him’ anymore. He doesn’t experience ‘the end of suffering’, so his suffering doesn’t really end. 

Close, but doesn't seem to absolutely be the case. Sure, an end to experience would not provide peace, obviously... for the reason you suggest. But you additionally assume not only that experience ends at body death, but also that experience is real in the first place.

[Scholar]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

But you also need to understand that they will never be fool-proof and people will ignore warnings even when they are given. The kind of people who are most susceptible to misusing the teachings are precisely those who will tend to skip over warnings.

There is no way for you to actually justify this line of reasoning and you know it. A direct consequence of your philosophy is that you cannot say any of this was bad, foolish or ignorant. Who constitutes what a misusage of teachings are? I guess if it's bad PR for you, it must be misusage.

 

Warnings from what exactly? A breaching of your personal moral code that you have established for your own selfish reasons? You can't reason yourself out of this.

[The0Self]

3 minutes ago, Scholar said:

There is no way for you to actually justify this line of reasoning and you know it. A direct consequence of your philosophy is that you cannot say any of this was bad, foolish or ignorant. Who constitutes what a misusage of teachings are? I guess if it's bad PR for you, it must be misusage.

 

Warnings from what exactly? A breaching of your personal moral code that you have established for your own selfish reasons? You can't reason yourself out of this.

Pretty sure he literally said it was foolish. Definitely at least implied that, among other things. Or equivalent. It's certainly in the air... Don't know what more you want.

Edited May 20, 2021 by The0Self

[Dodo]

24 minutes ago, tuckerwphotography said:

@Mu_ Yes, but that example involves me, which is right here right now. I was asking about somebody else like my cousin in Georgia. If he gets his penis cut off, and I don't know about it, did it actually happen?

Great question, even though probably shouldn't be in this thread..

That depends, is your cousin aware? See for you it might not have happened, but for him it has, since he is awareness also, not just you. 

You are both holding space and have different equally real or unreal experiences.