Soonhei (Member of this community) killed himself to experience Conscious Death. :-(

[charlie cho]

We fear death so much because we love it so much also. 

[SpiritualAwakening]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

(In case you're dumb: don't do that.)

This made me laugh, nice disclaimer Leo haha. I'm not finished with this experience and I enjoy it, no need to remove the break peddles.

[SpiritualAwakening]

2 minutes ago, charlie cho said:

We fear death so much because we love it so much also. 

Fear doesn't breed Love.

[SpiritualAwakening]

2 minutes ago, charlie cho said:

@SpiritualAwakening You never felt scared of a beautiful woman you liked so much? 

Even in that example fear doesn't breed love, you might be insecure and unsecure about your position in the situation. What's the relationship between fear and love? You might call it love but is it really?

[BipolarGrowth]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

He didn't need to have depression or even suffering to do what he did. He may simply have wanted to transcend material reality. Of course that's very rare, but this seems like one of those extra rare situations. Which is what makes it difficult to preempt such things. Out of a million people, one guy might think jumping off a bridge is a good idea to get closer to God.

I don’t think this was much of a case of depression or suffering based on what I’ve seen. If it was a case of mental health issues or you’re going to read it that way, disregard this post. 

The real danger here was intense optimism. He saw everything in the way it could go right rather than how it could go wrong. I literally heard the same words said to me by my much older atheistic friend when he was referring to how I kept experiencing mental health issues due to my intense spiritual practices. 

I see this sad event like he was a passionate astronaut thinking that using 100% of his fuel to continue exploring twice as far rather than returning home is worth it because the prize of discovery and adventure is that important to him. 
 

Is it foolish? It depends on what you value. We don’t consider deaths on Mt. Everest suicide. Climbing up a mountain seems like a much more foolish thing to die for than what he was envisioning if he’s even 1% correct in his projections. Jesus could’ve toned it down and lived. Yet we cherish him for facing death for his cause. Many other mystics experienced similar fates at their own choice through the hands of others. Your mention of Braveheart comes to mind as a more secular example. 
 

Our problem with this whole issue is we disagree with how Sunny placed his values into a hierarchy and was willing to take a gigantic gamble for something we personally wouldn’t — at least not in the same way or degree. This whole thread is filled with a stench. And that is the stench of mostly politely concealed judgment and arrogance. So many are looking down at him while giving earnest condolences. Foolish, stupid, overzealous, reckless, inconsiderate, selfish, immoral, the list goes on. Whether held mostly subconsciously or with true intention, many of you had one of these words or a synonym in mind when thinking of his decision and maybe even him. 
 

Remember him how you see fit. I’ll remember him as a true devotee with more courage than I. 
 

RIP to my brother who I hardly knew ❤️. The Holy Spirit already showed me you’re still here. I only wish his family could receive this confirmation rather than me. 

[Ryan R]

15 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Showing compassion and understanding to the deceased is not glorification of suicide. 

Glorification would be if people did not feel sorry or if they cheered such an act and encouraged others to do the same.

However I didn't see that on the thread. Most people expressed regret that it happened. I don't see this as glorification but condemnation and disappointment expressed in a compassionate way.

 

I'm not about to take the time to find it all and quote it, but there has been just a bit of shall I say an overly positive response in some posts in regards to this good man's suicide IMHO. Even if I'm completely wrong about that others looking for justification and encouragement to take their own lives may well read what you or I see as compassion as glorification. 

I read new posts in this forum daily by people toying with the idea to seriously contemplating to truly considering suicide. As I've said, it is an organic part of spiritual development work. In addition self-help and spiritual work draws distraught suicidal people in the first place. This forum if full to the brim of those with death, ego death, and bodily death on their mind.

I'm willing to be a bit of an asshole and say slightly offensive things if it means keeping even one person reading this thread from thinking suicide is the answer to their worldly and/or spiritual challenges. 

It's not personal to you, the deceased, his loved ones, or anyone.

[Blackhawk]

From a utilitarian view it was a bad move, because he wasn't even suffering. So he added a massive amount of extra suffering into the world, unfortunately.

I'm all for suicide if it doesn't cause suffering to others. If it means that the total amount of suffering decreases.

Edited May 20, 2021 by Blackhawk

[Blackhawk]

6 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

From a utilitarian view it was a bad move, because he wasn't even suffering. So he added a massive amount of extra suffering into the world, unfortunately.

I'm all for suicide if it doesn't cause suffering to others. If it means that the total amount of suffering decreases.

The mourning ones could consciously change this balance, by choosing to not be sad. But of course that's difficult or impossible.

Sunny would definitely not want you to be sad @SoonHei

[RMQualtrough]

46 minutes ago, SpiritualAwakening said:

For himself 100%, selfishness as in the suffering you are inflicting on your kids, wife, family. All just because the mind has convinced you to see what happens if you choose for a 'Conscious death' by jumping of a cliff? This is still attachment and selfishness for something the idea of you has cultivated over time.

I cannot really accept that is the sole motive. Especially in modern times it is rare to think this way since the world is more secular, so generally people only end up with such philosophical outlooks because of freak chance first hand experience, or because they are mentally unwell and looking for answers wherever they can get them.

A lot of people who seek "enlightenment" are probably trying to escape some mental turmoil, so you will find more mentally ill people than usual on these places.

I do not understand this practice as a way to escape suffering. It makes no sense to me. You are killing ego to end suffering? Blowing your brains out will "end suffering" too. These options suck... Total ego death is essentially death as experienced. You cannot live like that every day. You cannot lead an entire life preparing for death.

Really human ego ought to merely be turned down a bit at most, like a volume knob to a level of something like the strength of ego found in a cat or dog.

Subjectively humans like stories and illusions. We get sucked into fantasy land within minutes of a movie starting. Nobody watches a film thinking "IT'S NOT REAL" throughout, because it ruins the movie. Why do that for life?

[StarStruck]

When doing spiritual work it is important to ground yourself in Shakti.

If he had studied Buddhism and then come to New age spirituality I believe he wouldn't committed suicide. 

Leo's teachings are dangerous to airy fairy type of people. I read the dudes post and he comes across as such. It is very easy to misinterpret Leo's teachings if the person is airy fairy. 

Spirituality should go hand in hand with grounding and integrating. Otherwise nasty stuff can happen. 

Edited May 20, 2021 by StarStruck

[lesmondesengloutis]

Condolences to the family and friends. ♥

 

 

[Jonty]

1 hour ago, Blackhawk said:

From a utilitarian view it was a bad move, because he wasn't even suffering. So he added a massive amount of extra suffering into the world, unfortunately.

I'm all for suicide if it doesn't cause suffering to others. If it means that the total amount of suffering decreases.

I used to work for the Police. Even if a victim had no family, someone has to deal with the trauma of the aftermath of a suicide, irrespective of how they did it. I saw suicides too much, perhaps one a week over 16 years in the job. I never knew a single time that it didn't affect someone. 

[Carl-Richard]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I have had plenty of people message me and tell me that if not for this community or finding my videos, they would have committed suicide or been stuck in some horrible depression or psychosis or some cult.

I check all of those boxes.

[Dodo]

1 hour ago, StarStruck said:

When doing spiritual work it is important to ground yourself in Shakti.

If he had studied Buddhism and then come to New age spirituality I believe he wouldn't committed suicide. 

Leo's teachings are dangerous to airy fairy type of people. I read the dudes post and he comes across as such. It is very easy to misinterpret Leo's teachings if the person is airy fairy. 

Spirituality should go hand in hand with grounding and integrating. Otherwise nasty stuff can happen. 

I do not think he was airy fairy, I think he was very deep in the direction of the absolute, but unfortunately he needed to get more relative teaching in there to ground himself in. It's about a dance between absolute and relative for me. The way I see it, even if this is a dream, it is a pretty lucid one and usually if you reach such lucidity in a dream you don't really want to wake up from it, unless you are suffering. It is weird to me that he wanted to change the dream because he was not suffering. There is no guarantee what the next dream will be and whether it will be as lucid, or that there even will be one..

Really unfortunate, I wish I had gotten to him somehow and talked to him about how important the relative aspect of life is as well.

He will be the True Self forever, but true beauty comes in impermanence.... There is no rush to get rid of bodymind since we cannot be separated from the True Self anyway. And the bodymind is one of those impermanent diamonds that should be appreciated while lasting. 

Edited May 20, 2021 by Dodo

[StarStruck]

1 minute ago, Dodo said:

I do not think he was airy fairy, I think he was very deep in the direction of the absolute, but unfortunately he needed to get more relative teaching in there to ground himself in.

 

Those two statements are contradicting each other.

Quote

It's about a dance between absolute and relative for me.

That is what I'm saying. To integrate one needs to relate.

[Dodo]

1 minute ago, StarStruck said:

Those two statements are contradicting each other.

That is what I'm saying. To integrate one needs to relate.

I believe it is possible that he is still alive in another dimension from what I've seen how reality works in some experiences... Perhaps he is still alive from his POV, on another dimensional Earth (for him would be the same Earth) and he has changed his timeline completely through that act and is out of this particular one... I am not certain of this, but I believe its possible.. I actually believe it has happened to me before, but I am only speculating, no proof of this.  

[Salvijus]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

B) I certainly have much spiritual work left to do. I shoot the video as I am, at whatever development level I am at. I cannot do otherwise. And I have never made any promises or guarantees to you about my embodiment or energy or stage or whatever other standards you evaluate me on. In the end, I'm just a guy sharing his ideas with you. I am not your guru, we have no formal relationship. I'm a YT philosopher. I am on a spiritual journey and I share my insights. That's what Actualized.org is. So set your expectations appropriately. Remember, when I started Actualized.org I was a self-help life coach. Today I am where I am. And who knows where I will be in 5 or 10 years. I make no pretenses about my embodiment or the like. I share my realizations and insights as they come to me. I am also not infallible and not immune to self-deception, as I have stressed many times in the past. So you should think for yourself and verify everything in your direct experience.

Lol, finnaly I can agree with you on something

Now if you just realized that being angry, obnoxious and arrogant has nothing to do with authenticity, it's just a result of ego and low awareness, that would be fantastic

Regards ?

[StarStruck]

8 minutes ago, Dodo said:

I believe it is possible that he is still alive in another dimension from what I've seen how reality works in some experiences... Perhaps he is still alive from his POV, on another dimensional Earth (for him would be the same Earth) and he has changed his timeline completely through that act and is out of this particular one... I am not certain of this, but I believe its possible.. I actually believe it has happened to me before, but I am only speculating, no proof of this.  

That won't change anything for his family.

To come back at grounding. Especially for airy fairy types it is important to ground and integrate because if you don't do that, you will go "up" very high and then come back very "hard".

I made an extensive topic about this a while back but it didn't get a lot of attention on this forum because it is not popular to speak about it. Unfortunately now it is too late.

[charlie cho]

1 hour ago, Dodo said:

I do not think he was airy fairy, I think he was very deep in the direction of the absolute, 

You say you know he's not airy fairy. You say he was quite realistic, which means that you know what it means to not be airy fairy and realistic. 

1 hour ago, Dodo said:

I believe it is possible that he is still alive in another dimension from what I've seen how reality works in some experiences... Perhaps he is still alive from his POV, on another dimensional Earth (for him would be the same Earth) and he has changed his timeline completely through that act and is out of this particular one... I am not certain of this, but I believe its possible.. I actually believe it has happened to me before, but I am only speculating, no proof of this.  

I don't quite get how these two quotes show that you are airy fairy or realistic and how they convey that the deceased man was not airy fairy either. Stop with these dimensions, different POVs, and dimensional Earth nonsense. I can't believe people get into these things and start harming themselves for these falsities. 

Truth is simple. These complex thoughts are just being a fog to what is actual. Nothing that comes out of a cunning mind can help you realize what is true. I feel so angry thinking about this. Why hurt yourself for these false stupidities!

If you want to realize truth then consider your neighbors. Think about the mother who is suffering because of she does not feel loved. Cook food for your girlfriend boyfriend! Give your friends a compliment! Hug your father. Become silent in the mind. Play an instrument. Work hard at what you love. How can these talks of dimensions, spirituality, religion, and psychedelics and such ever help anybody become enlightened? It hurts.

Edited May 20, 2021 by charlie cho

[BipolarGrowth]

1 hour ago, Salvijus said:

Lol, finnaly I can agree with you on something

Now if you just realized that being angry, obnoxious and arrogant has nothing to do with authenticity, it's just a result of ego and low awareness, that would be fantastic

Regards ?

Maybe it’s not authentic for you to be that way, but it might be for him. At the end of the day, Leo is incredibly kind to us on the forum. He takes tons of time where he could be with friends or romantic partners or making sure he’s keeping up on his rectally-administered personal development vitamins to bring deeper understanding to himself which seems to be his favored prize of life. He could just have Mods do everything, but he’s posted nearly 30,000 times here. Even the shitty comments were him trying to direct someone to a conclusion he thought was best for themselves and society. The more outright stupid and devilish the shit you’re saying, the more you tend to see firmer responses from him. 
 

He seems to be bringing a masculine backbone to teaching spirituality which is usually incredibly dormant in others. Honestly I’d consider Teal Swan to have stronger masculine energy than most enlightened gurus. The eastern traditions have a lot of worship of passivity and see it probably overemphasized to a detrimental degree. Spirituality is not about fitting some mold. This is precisely the kind of thinking dogmatic religions showcase. Also, ego can certainly be authentic and healthy. 
 

For me it’s completely inauthentic to act as Leo does, but a lot of this is a difference in personality and likely early childhood.