Soonhei (Member of this community) killed himself to experience Conscious Death. :-(

[Scholar]

1 minute ago, Joel3102 said:

You’re right. You can’t say that everything is imaginary and other beings don’t exist they’re all imagined, then tell us not to go out and torture people for a living. You can’t have it both ways. By this logic, there’s no less reason to massacre people for the sake of it than there is to massacre people in a GTA5 video game. They’re both unreal

Yes, but don't tell this anyone. But also, tell this everyone because I like to be edgy and confront everyone with the Truth.

[SgtPepper]

RIP. 

[blackchair]

1 minute ago, Roy said:

 

If you think you've somehow got the answers to life (and death) by listening to a 30 something year old talking head on YouTube, you've completely lost the plot................

 

this......

[RMQualtrough]

6 minutes ago, Scholar said:

You don't have to lie about anything. The point is that you can't market this to the masses and be edgily truthful because you think bruteforcing ideology into the brains of clueless people will help them.

It's not at all insane to leap to your death if you are truly convinced of what Leo is saying. It makes 100% sense to be certain when Leo claims you can only trust your experience. I mean what do you think this leads to if you tell this to a person?

Yes, people don't necessarily belief in objective morals. But they do believe in their own mortality, and that other beings exist, and that reality contains suffering, and most importantly they lack conviction that all of reality is Perfection. But sure, just ignore this.

If you cannot be wise, reality will make you wise through suffering.

It is insane to be 100% certain in the idea, since it is a theory.

I happen to think it's correct and I absolutely do not believe in objective morals or meaning. I am content with subjective ones. But I wouldn't kill myself for the main reason that this is literally a theory. It is not proven and it actually never COULD be for various reasons. I also wouldn't jump to my death because of many other things... But first and foremost it is clearly just a theory. A belief.

If you have to sort of pull your punches then you are not really communicating what you think and might as well say nothing at all. Talk would have to be confined to secret covens or something where a few gather.

I think in nonduality people make too big of a deal about there being no such things as X or Y or Z. There is objective reality and subjective reality.

Leo replied to me recently describing the subjective feeling on a deep trip. That subjective feeling is different from what he would say is the objective truth. So you can see there is two sides of the coin. There is the subjective reality of being "myself" and the objective one of "being God".

This is why I like Kashmir Shaivism. Identical idea but presents subjective things as real. Or Dzogchen.

[SoonHei]

@ivankiss Yes. Thanks for saying this. It is hard for me to understand why and how a smart guy like SoonHei got so lost in these mental ideas and really understood this life to be a "Dream" that he could wake up out of. Imagine someone who is perhaps not "as smart" for the lack of a better word. If they start taking this stuff literally, they can easily take steps like this.

PLEASE PLEASE clarify this for everyone you talk to. Disclaimers are good but get ignored. Please make it a point to clarify within your conversations that this life is not a dream that you can just end it consciously by hurting your body in any way. You guys know how to say it best...

We have a long life ahead of us living without SoonHei... I just don't want this to happen to anyone else. Please!

 

 

Edited May 20, 2021 by SoonHei

[Scholar]

3 minutes ago, Roy said:

If you think you've somehow got the answers to life (and death) by listening to a 30 something year old talking head on YouTube, you've completely lost the plot................

This is unbelievably irresponsible and gaslighting. You guys should have compassions for your brothers and sisters, not blame them because they lost their plot. But of course you don't believe in morality, so who cares if you are being considerate to others.

 

1 minute ago, RMQualtrough said:

It is insane to be 100% certain in the idea, since it is a theory.

Oh yes, the backtracking. One day you say this is the Absolute Truth, and then when someone discovers the Absolute Truth for themself and kills themselves, it's all just a theory and you should have never been certain.

How can people who claim to do consciousness work be so clueless to what they are doing? You are showing zero compassion, zero responsiblity.

[Dodo]

58 minutes ago, Scholar said:

It should not be surprising, the philosophy Leo is using to describe spirituality is even more radical than this. Connor is a good example of this too. If you say everything is Good and Love, it is simply illogical to claim that it is better to do X.

This philosophy claims to recognize that torture and rape is Perfection. Not just suicide.

 

This is another reason why you ought to be careful about how you construct this philosophy. See, if people truly believe what you say, the might blow themselves up together with others for Jihad.

And then what do you do as a teacher? You say "No no, this is bad PR, this is wrong! When I said everything is Good and Perfect, I actually meant you should behave morally because it's stupid to behave immorally!". Are you sure?

See, because you are contradicting yourself, if someone truly believes what you say with actual conviction, he will laugh at you, as Connor does at Leo when he tries to tell him what he is doing is "bad". Clearly in one moment you say it's bad and in the other you say it's Perfection. You tell him whatever fits your agenda. And he will clearly see this if he truly and fully is convinced that reality is perfection, or that it is a dream, or anything else.

 

See, if reality is a dream, every excuse for why you should not torture someone goes out the window. You can pretend like this is not the case, but it is.

Spot on. I was tackling this exact issue on another thread earlier about Leo being imagined by us. Solipsism, believing only your experience is real and others are NPC characters/ dream characters would literally allow for you to do anything and call it good.

We need to spot things like these on the forum and challenge such views no matter if Leo has said something similar. 

It seems SoonHei wanted to change his dream, but in doing so he would bring so much pain on his family.. He has babies omg... Did he really consider them dream characters without their own Consciousness and didn't postpone his journey... Seems like he put his faith in the wrong thing.

Here's what SoonHei wrote to me once when I inquired about his avatar as it seemed like it had deep meaning to me - and it did.

On 20/10/2020 at 5:51 AM, SoonHei said:

Sure thing. It's pointing back home. It's the answer for the one looking to find his true self OUT THERE in the world. The finger is a gentle reminder that it is you, the looker, that you seek. It is a mirror back to you. The entire world is a mirror image of you. You are ONE with the world. You are the world. It is as they say, your party. You are the king of your own life/dream. 

So, Live from that. Live from your true position, which is not of this world, it is its source. You smile, the world smiles. The mirror never smiles first.

 

It's a finger pointing back at you.

You are the looker, looking thru. The eyes are the instrument just as radio is the instrument which catches and gives sound. The finger points beyond all that action to the one who sees and hears them. 

You cannot find yourself in the world. You are like a reader, reading a book. A reader can go on reading but never find himself in the book. As a reader, he is outside of the book. The reader is the sought. Likewise, as the looker, you're outside, looking in. 

 

Only you can confirm it for you. You can share it, sure, but ultimately only you can confirm it. When you share with those who also know, that's divine. But prior to the sharing, only you can know.

It is this exact solipsistic view, and it ended badly, from this dimension's point of view, I guess. I do believe there is an "other side" however and he might be totally OK right now. Can't confirm though.. 

@SoonHei I am tagging you on this one so you could read your brother's explanation to me, maybe you will understand what he believed in/investigated. 

Edited May 19, 2021 by Dodo

[4201]

5 minutes ago, Scholar said:

Yes, but don't tell this anyone. But also, tell this everyone because I like to be edgy and confront everyone with the Truth.

So Leo's edginess is the big evil here? Talk about projection

Even if Leo stopped teaching spirituality under your suggestion, someone else would. In a system composed of 7 biliion humans some will organically become spiritual teachers and some will unfortunately get it wrong.

[Roy]

2 minutes ago, Scholar said:

This is unbelievably irresponsible and gaslighting. You guys should have compassions for your brothers and sisters, not blame them because they lost their plot. But of course you don't believe in morality, so who cares if you are being considerate to others.

Take a second to cool off and read what I wrote again, if there is any blame you'll see where it lies.

[Scholar]

3 minutes ago, 4201 said:

So Leo's edginess is the big evil here? Talk about projection

Even if Leo stopped teaching spirituality under your suggestion, someone else would. In a system composed of 7 biliion humans some will organically become spiritual teachers and some will unfortunately get it wrong.

It's Leo's lack of wisdom and social isolation. If he wants to teach he should get in person experience and get the feedback he clearly needs to see.

Leo has been completely dogmatic about the way he teaches since years now, all under the umbrella of it being his style and him wanting to not compromise the "Truth".

 

I never said Leo should stop teaching spirituality, your response here is childlike. I am saying he should adjust his teachings and be a responsible human being.

Edited May 19, 2021 by Scholar

[RMQualtrough]

1 minute ago, Scholar said:

This is unbelievably irresponsible and gaslighting. You guys should have compassions for your brothers and sisters, not blame them because they lost their plot. But of course you don't believe in morality, so who cares if you are being considerate to others.

 

Oh yes, the backtracking. One day you say this is the Absolute Truth, and then when someone discovers the Absolute Truth for themself and kills themselves, it's all just a theory and you should have never been certain.

How can people who claim to do consciousness work be so clueless to what they are doing? You are showing zero compassion, zero responsiblity.

You will find I personally backtrack nowhere. I think Idealism is the most logical guess. I would never say it is proven, it is really crazy to take a theory as absolute fact.

It is impossible to prove Idealism for the same reason Materialism is unproveable.

If it was proveable that the idea was right, there would be no debates at all. All scientists would agree with it and it would just be accepted by everyone.

In either case I also do not think objective truth matters much... Just ask someone who hammers that subjective experience is irrelevant to go stick their hand in a hornet's nest. After all pain isn't real right?! They won't. Why? Because it fkn hurts! But then for some reason, when it comes to things other than physical pain, everyone suddenly dismisses subjective experience.

[LfcCharlie4]

I'm so sorry to hear this. RIP <3 

 

[WaveInTheOcean]

1 hour ago, SoonHei said:

@Leo Gura Hi Leo! This is SoonHei's sister using his account trying to find out why he took the step that he did. I can confirm that he did in fact die on May 3rd by jumping off of a bridge.

His message to his wife was: "Oh I was never ending it. I was just continuing it. I just wanted to jump. Love you all. See you soon."

Similar message to what he sent to the person who started this thread (first post).

Now most important, Sunny asked NAHM very directly before committing this act. I really wish NAHM had guided him better. Sunny could not have been clearer. I will attach screenshots of their conversation in my next post.

If someone can tell us what he was trying to do, please do.

We cannot explain to you the shock of his death. We cannot wrap our heads around why he would do this. Sunny was someone who has literally saved others from depression and suicide. We keep hearing stories from people that he helped in their darkest hour. I can tell you for a fact that he did not suffer from any mental illness or depression. Sunny was SO SO full of life.

He has left behind a 3 month old and a 20 month old. It is hard to even look at his 27-yr-old wife who was barely out of the post-partum phase with her baby. I see our whole family going into depression... Sunny was a very central part of our family. The most kind-hearted soul. An amazing son, a wonderful husband, the most supportive brother, and above all, a one-in-a-million father.

I feel like our whole family will go into depression...

I'm moved to tears to read this. 

I cannot offer any help, other than giving you this metaphor about hell (depression) and heaven (enlightenment):

When you knock a bouncy ball very hard down into the hard ground, what happens to it?....

All my Love and prayers and thoughts to you and your family. I'm deeply moved :'(

[SoonHei]

I shared's SoonHei's "Direct" questions to NAHM before from Sunday May 2nd. Here is his discussion from Saturday, May 1st which was rather "indirect". I personally don't understand what is being said here but may be some of you can make sense out of it. Sharing just so you know that when someone is asking questions like this, they have taken things too literally and need to be altered or stopped.

Edited May 20, 2021 by SoonHei

[Scholar]

1 minute ago, RMQualtrough said:

In either case I also do not think objective truth matters much... Just ask someone who hammers that subjective experience is irrelevant to go stick their hand in a hornet's nest. After all pain isn't real right?! They won't. Why? Because it fkn hurts! But then for some reason, when it comes to things other than physical pain, everyone suddenly dismisses subjective experience.

Because to you all of this is nothing but intellectual masturbation. If you actually were to take this path seriously, you would notice that it would start being the case that putting your hands in the hornest nest wouldn't be problematic to you at all. Connor Murphy got hair replacement without anesthesia to prove the point that to him every experience was "Good".

 

You are doing intellectual gymnastics here.

[Eren Eeager]

@SoonHei He had a misunderstanding that he is going to complete the journey of life by physically taking his life. And this is something Leo never supported. I also contemplated this thing many times, but always reached the conclusion that it is wrong to do that. Don't worry Sunny was never lost. He will just reappear in a different form and as a different Human. At least he did it peacefully. I wish you all find peace and acceptance,

sorry for your loss. 

Edited May 19, 2021 by Eren Eeager

[SoonHei]

@SoonHei For some reason I can't upload any more as there is a 153Kb limit..?

Pasting here:

NAHM Replied: May 1

You know I have the utmost respect for authentic questions...

Yes, absolutely. Very generally speaking the forum imo has a rare mix of psychedelic bias and deep misunderstanding. Not saying anything’s wrong with that. I like it, it’s more interesting. But there is a pretty complete lack of distinction which will takes years if ever to right itself so to speak. That’ll be contingent on a top down ownership and course-righting of deflection, projection, name calling, and boastful undermining via the conflation of absolute & relative, as it suits. 

I find faith to be only grey, but I don’t mean that to minimize it whatsoever. Generally, I find faith impossible to define, but I feel ‘the opposite of complaining’ points well.

Generally, when someone:

a) makes a dreamboard

b) discovers how much “how” thinking and doership is present in experience

and

c) let’s go of b

they’ll going to be waking up and simultaneously creating the life they most desire, and self discovering quickly via loa. 

Also, be compassionate to the cause and that which funds it (forum wise). There is no perfect way, and LP course, YouTube, Patreon way is as respectable as is possible. 

Imagine if everyone on the forum compared how amazing & abundant their life is from articulating what they want, expressing earnestly, and having complete surrender & faith in the universe being what they are dreaming up... instead of memories of a past trip which doesn’t exist and is precisely how they are veiling themselves from this / consciousness / now. 

---

SoonHei Member

Replied: May 2

Thank you! As always ?

?❤️?

Yes the psychedelic way is very much favored and understandably so, as Leo's videos talk about it and it's his party/forum after all, so naturally that will be the center.

 

Very key thing, to let go of "b)"

Indeed 

 

Thanks ??

[4201]

6 minutes ago, Scholar said:

It's Leo's lack of wisdom and social isolation. If he wants to teach he should get in person experience and get the feedback he clearly needs to see.

Leo has been completely dogmatic about the way he teaches since years now, all under the umbrella of it being his style and him wanting to not compromise the "Truth".

So you think whether or not people choose suicide is a matter of how the information is presented instead of it being presented? In your previous message you said "Don't tell this anyone".

[WaveInTheOcean]

The reason why death (most of the time, especially if you have a decent life with decent opportunities) is so silly, is because it - ultimately speaking - changes nothing.

That/he/she which thinks he/she can be killed/die/reborn/go somewhere/trip IS already death.

Life = dead = life = dead = ....

The dualistic view of life & death as opposites is an egoic, selfish, false, illusory view. In Truth life&death is identical. Completely identical.

[Breakingthewall]

This has nothing to do with spirituality, it has to do with avoiding responsibility, avoiding the truth, looking for an escape route. Neither nahm nor anyone is responsible for anything, only the person who jumped off the bridge. just hinting at it is trying to blame people for something terrible. If that person did not mind leaving his wife and children alone and did not want to face life, that is not the responsibility of anyone except his