intotheblack

Teal swan - what a woman needs from a man in a relationship

682 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

I’m gonna go first and admit that I used to objectify women until just very recently & that’s what most men do, of course they’re just not aware of it. It stemmed from a sense of lack, wanting to find ❤️ through women instead of sharing love with a woman. What everyone wants is ❤️, thinking you want anything less is delusion. Happy women’s day btw! I also think that we should start emphasizing the difference between men/women & boys/girls, and it ain’t about age ? 

Edited by Mannyb

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

We all know about what men want and need in a relationship and you can go to 95% of the posts on the forum to see that.

Wrong. There is your deafness right there.

Men more then anything want to feel NOT-dismissed.

In saying this, you dismiss the man's perspective (even if that's not your intention), and hence you are not really understanding/listening to their needs.

Every time you find a man on this forum screeching about "nice guys vs bad boys," or just sex in general, the translation is: "Am I enough? Please tell me enough. Please."

And every time, a barrage of women descend on these men calling them "not integrated enough" or whatever else.

Rather than accepting men at their level, you appear to chastise them from your throne.

Deaf.

And these are just the less developed men, by the way. Do you really know what a fully self-actualized man wants from his partner? It's not so obvious.

Now, me pointing this out to you will tragically come off as ME being blind to YOUR point against Leo (even though that's not my intention). Reading through my comment here may even in turn give you an urge to deconstruct all of my blind spots (no doubt there are many). And the cycle continues.

Leo is spot on.

49 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

@Emerald I appreciate your patience. Most of your insights are unfortunately lost / missed by men in this subforum. 

I agree :)

Edited by RendHeaven

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1 hour ago, Emerald said:

We all know about what men want and need in a relationship and you can go to 95% of the posts on the forum to see that.

What y'all might not know, though, is that most men don't even want a relationship. Most men mainly just want the sex so that they can go on with their lives. Males are fundamentally polyamorous by nature, and there's nothing we can do about that. That's how mother nature designed us for maximum survival.


If you have no confidence in yourself, you are twice defeated in the race of life. But with confidence you have won, even before you start.” -- Marcus Garvey

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Posted (edited)

@RendHeaven Women ARE supposed to help boys wake up and grow up, it’s not chastising, it’s evolution, they get to select and god knows how essential that is. These aren’t less developed men, these are traumatized boys. The lack of a right of passage has been leaving our society bereft of real men. A fully self actualized man doesn’t want anything from a woman, all he wants is to love her and ideally make her his queen through a sacred union. Rejection made me a man.

Edited by Mannyb

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Posted (edited)

7 minutes ago, Mannyb said:

@RendHeaven Women ARE supposed to help boys wake up and grow up, it’s not chastising, it’s evolution, they get to select and god knows how essential that is. These aren’t less developed men, these are traumatized boys. The lack of a right of passage has been leaving our society bereft of real men. A fully self actualized man doesn’t want anything from a woman, all he wants is to love her and ideally make her his queen through a sacred union. Rejection made me a man.

I agree.

I know that it's not chastising.

That's why I specifically said it APPEARS to be as such.

Emerald is doing her job splendidly. My only point is that she is still deaf nonetheless.

Edited by RendHeaven

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Posted (edited)

28 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

Every time you find a man on this forum screeching about "nice guys vs bad boys," or just sex in general, the translation is: "Am I enough? Please tell me enough. Please."

I brought this up in my earlier post. 

It's a lot of insecurity and fears of worthlessness. And then wanting to construct an easy-to-understand narrative around women's sexuality to feel more secure and in control of women's feelings... which they see as the ultimate measuring stick of whether they're enough or not.

And then, of course, men can feel even more in control if they can continue to believe that women don't really know what they want. 

And this is why I keep repeating myself. Men with this insecurity end up shooting themselves in the foot. 

They want so badly to be enough in women's eyes, that they construct a narrative in their mind where they can get some success with women and feel enough. But then, that narrative will only take them that far. And then once it gets past a certain point, they will only orient to their idea of a woman and not the woman herself... basically guaranteeing that he won't give the woman what she really wants, which is intimacy. 

So don't think that I don't feel this on so many men. 

It's very frustrating to try to get it across because, as a woman, I have a lot of personal experiences with being dismissed and ignored even in times where I've had the most accurate and sound perspective. So, there are definitely wounds there for me that this triggers. And I may get a little sharp if I'm ignored for a long time.

But I do fundamentally see what underlies men's insecurities around intimacy with a woman. It's fear of being seen and judged as lesser. 

Edit: Here is my post from earlier...

I'm reading through the comments since yesterday, and it's not looking good.

Lots of guys on here with really apparent chips on their shoulders in relation to women. And lots of willful ignorance around the female perspective on sexuality and relationships. And a lot more of just doubting women's sincerity and/or ability to communicate what they want.

So many of the guys on here have such a skewed view of female emotions and sexuality that they are basically lining themselves up to attract very harsh and insecure women to themselves that mirror their own insecurities. And it will be a self-fulfilling prophecy that will seem to confirm their suspicions over and over again, the more unconscious/traumatized women they attract... further entrenching them in the cycle of distortion and unconscious dating behavior. 

And then, the women who actually are relatively conscious, compassionate, and who have done a lot of work on themselves will automatically sort them out because their instincts will lead them to a man who matches them with regard to their mental/emotional state. And they won't even realize that they're being unconsciously filtered out as unhealthy men by healthy women. 

And much of this is based in fear of femininity and the fear of being deemed lesser, so there is a desire to construct a narrative where they feel more in control of how women feel.

And this comes from their own low self-esteem and fear of their own feminine side, so they prefer to stay in a narrative that is deeply distorted but feels empowering to them where they can remain armored and in control as opposed to recognizing other perspectives and really allowing themselves to be fully human and have the intimacy that all people need. 

And it's especially a shame that Leo (as an influential person) has a lot of these same chips on his shoulder relative to emotions, intimacy, and femininity because he just green-lights all the unconsciousness relative to his understanding the female perspective and frames it as conscious and parades a distorted perspective as truth. And you can see all these guys feel emboldened in their distortions once he validates them. 

Ultimately guys, this is mostly your problem to sort out as you will be the ones reaping the consequences of this problem. 

And I can tell you all about the female perspective until I'm blue in the face. But understand, I'm not doing this for my own health. I'm mostly sharing this perspective to help the men on here understand so they can at least have some chance of experiencing a fulfilling relationship and satisfying their woman. It doesn't do any good to be so myopic towards your own survival agenda if you're looking for a real relationship.

So, for those that are working on themselves, if you want a fulfilling relationship to a relatively conscious woman, then you're going to have to be conscious relative to how you approach relationships. And you'll need to be multi-perspectival in how you approach relationships without getting stuck in the reductive perspective of seeing man/woman relationships as purely a cruel survival game.

And all this farcical alpha nonsense may get you laid here and there by women who line up with that... but it isn't going to cut it if you're looking to satisfy a woman and have a good relationship with her.

Women who are relatively attuned to their intuition will recognize your willful ignorance and defensive behavior for what it is... weakness and fragility and fear of the feminine. 

Edited by Emerald

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28 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

What y'all might not know, though, is that most men don't even want a relationship. Most men mainly just want the sex so that they can go on with their lives. Males are fundamentally polyamorous by nature, and there's nothing we can do about that. That's how mother nature designed us for maximum survival.

A lot of men are afraid of intimacy. So casual/short interactions based mostly in mutual masturbation will feel like the safest way for a man to meet his needs if he's dealing with avoidant patterns. 

Not as to say that most men wouldn't enjoy casual sex. The enjoyment is certainly there to be had.

But often, when it comes to avoidance of deeper relationships, it doesn't come from a genuine lack of desire to have them. It usually comes from fears of vulnerability or fears of losing themselves in a relationship. 

But this tendency actually runs counter to human survival. Human beings are meant to pair bond (or in earlier societies) settle down with a small group of male and female sexual partners so that all adults raise all the children. 

Men having indiscriminate sex with lots of female partners, even in nomadic times, leaves most of those children and the women in serious jeopardy. So, it isn't actually good for survival, as we are a social species with responsibilities for one another. 

Also, such a relationship will never really satisfy a woman unless she's GENUINELY looking for indiscriminate sex too. So, if you want a bunch of sex, you'll certainly be able to find women who (for one reason or another) are willing to sleep with you. But just don't fool yourself into thinking that you've given them something really satisfying. 


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Posted (edited)

@Emerald It's a stunning paradox indeed, that to truly help these men (or any struggling person) you have to slap them across the face and put them in their place; but also, to truly help them, you have to be 110% accepting of them with no will to change them.

The best teachers, I believe, will manage to honor both sides of this coin fully.

15 minutes ago, Emerald said:

It's very frustrating to try to get it across because, as a woman, I have a lot of personal experiences with being dismissed and ignored even in times where I've had the most accurate and sound perspective.

I understand.

My heart goes out to you and all women here, truly.

Sometimes I'm moved to tears thinking about how I could've/would've/should've listened to women more. 

And then I resolve to be better next time, and yet I still manage to not hear you guys with a totally open heart.

And I'm well aware that my resolve is rare among men. If even I sometimes stick my head in the sand, then men as a whole are buried miles underneath land wedged somewhere within a continental crust :D

Edited by RendHeaven

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Im reading this thread, everyones sharing their feelings and then.. and then

 

On 8.3.2021 at 0:03 AM, Leo Gura said:

A woman needs a weak man as much as you need a dick in your mouth.


The master doesn't call you names >>LSJMYdpX4Cw<<

 

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Does anyone posting about Male and female relationships in this thread actually have a relationship with a high quality partner of the opposite sex?

 

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@Leo Gura Awesome analogy

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

These gender wars are like a conversation between a blind man and a deaf woman :P

@Preety_India

 

1 hour ago, Preety_India said:

@Forestluv tell that to Leo. 

 

 

I think Leo will be enough open minded to hear this.

 

 

I forgot to wish everyone. Happy women day!

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Forestluv said:

@Emerald I appreciate your patience. Most of your insights are unfortunately lost / missed by men in this subforum. 

<3 


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@Emerald 

9 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Men having indiscriminate sex with lots of female partners, even in nomadic times, leaves most of those children and the women in serious jeopardy. So, it isn't actually good for survival, as we are a social species with responsibilities for one another.

Ever heard of condoms, safe sex, etc...?

Yeah, of course, there are men with avoidant attachment style. But that's beside the point.

Men are polyamorous regardless of attachment styles. It's just the way it is. It might not make logical sense from the evolutionary perspective, but it makes absolutely perfect intuitive sense from reality's perspective.

You're the expert on masculine and feminine polarities, so you probably know better. This should be obvious to you on an intuitive level. Although, granted that your logical mind won't like it. But what can we do? It is what it is.


If you have no confidence in yourself, you are twice defeated in the race of life. But with confidence you have won, even before you start.” -- Marcus Garvey

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12 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

@Emerald It's a stunning paradox indeed, that to truly help these men (or any struggling person) you have to slap them across the face and put them in their place; but also, to truly help them, you have to be 110% accepting of them with no will to change them.

The best teachers, I believe, will manage to honor both sides of this coin fully.

I understand.

My heart goes out to you and all women here, truly.

Sometimes I'm moved to tears thinking about how I could've/would've/should've listened to women more. 

And then I resolve to be better next time, and yet I still manage to not hear them with a totally open heart.

And I'm well aware that my resolve is rare among men. If even I sometimes stick my head in the sand, then men as a whole are buried miles underneath land wedged somewhere within a continental crust :D

Sometimes it is necessary to be really straight with someone to get through to them. Other times not so much. 

I'm usually in two minds about things. On one hand, I can get a more transcendent perspective and have all the patience and understanding in the world once I can see the situation as an impersonal chain of cause and effect. On the other hand, I'm human and have deep wounds relative to this dynamic just as everyone else does. And the wound of the feminine is about being suppressed and ignored. 

So, on one hand, I can stay in the transcendent perspective where I can see people's embattlements. But on the other hand, these conversations are like lemon juice in wounds. And even though I've acclimatized to the lemon juice by exploring these wounds in myself a lot and I've also healed certain wounds, there are still concentrations of the "lemon juice" that can make me feel really frustrated especially when it comes to insisting something is untrue that I know to be true and vice versa.

It's like trying to tell people the sky is blue and they try to tell me it's red.

And I say, "Yes, sometimes it's red. But only in certain situations. But most of the time it's blue." And then a bunch of sunset enthusiasts reply, "Nah! It's red. All the books I've read have told me the sky is red. And I experienced that the sky was red a bunch of times." And I go, "I get it that you like it when the sky is red, you're a sunset enthusiast. But generally speaking, the sky is blue." And they go, "What do you know about the sky, you're just a sky enthusiast. We're sunset enthusiasts, so we know better. We've experienced the sky being red many times."

And I go ¬¬


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3 minutes ago, Emerald said:

It's like trying to tell people the sky is blue and they try to tell me it's red.

And I say, "Yes, sometimes it's red. But only in certain situations. But most of the time it's blue." And then a bunch of sunset enthusiasts reply, "Nah! It's red. All the books I've read have told me the sky is red. And I experienced that the sky was red a bunch of times." And I go, "I get it that you like it when the sky is red, you're a sunset enthusiast. But generally speaking, the sky is blue." And they go, "What do you know about the sky, you're just a sky enthusiast. We're sunset enthusiasts, so we know better. We've experienced the sky being red many times."

And I go ¬¬

I like this metaphor. I honestly feel similarly when I'm in this section of the forum. 


Speaking into the void that sometimes answers back 

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3 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

@Emerald 

Ever heard of condoms, safe sex, etc...?

Yeah, of course, there are men with avoidant attachment style. But that's beside the point.

Men are polyamorous regardless of attachment styles. It's just the way it is. It might not make logical sense from the evolutionary perspective, but it makes absolutely perfect intuitive sense from reality's perspective.

You're the expert on masculine and feminine polarities, so you probably know better. This should be obvious to you on an intuitive level. Although, granted that your logical mind won't like it. But what can we do? It is what it is.

Men do have more biological impetus to seek indiscriminate sex. But this doesn't mean that it's good for survival. If that drive goes untempered by the human drive for connection and pair bonding/community building, this impulse can create a lot of survival issues for our species. 

Sure, it modern day we have condoms and other forms of contraceptive. But we are wired for nomadic times. And in that situation if men sought indiscriminate sex outside of his small hunter/gatherer group, he's leaving the woman and his children very susceptible to death. So, it isn't good for procreation and the survival of the species... nor is it great for the chances of him passing on healthy offspring. 

So, it isn't good for survival when the drive is used out of tandem with other pro-social drives including the drive towards fatherhood, even though it is something that would be enjoyed by many men.

Now, it is quite natural for men to be sexually attracted to many women, if that's what you mean. Generally, men do have a polyamorous sex drive, in greater degree to which women have a polyamorous sex drive. 

But men also have a strong drive for connection, community creation, fatherhood, and pair bonding. These are also male instincts. 

So, if a man never wants to have deeper relationships that go beyond base-line sexual attraction, there are strong chances that he is having issues with avoidance and/or issues with setting boundaries and that this is an indication that he's suppressing some of his instincts.

Though, of course, there are many people who simply don't resonate with the whole pair bond and have children thing. And that's fine. But often a lack of interest in deeper relationships can denote fears of intimacy.


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36 minutes ago, DnoReally said:

Im reading this thread, everyones sharing their feelings and then.. and then

 

Haha ! I think part of it is that Leo just love being provocative :)

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Reading this thread I think David Deida might me right ! haha

 

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3 hours ago, Emerald said:

And women never say, "Don't listen to men about what they want. They don't really know."

Women not only don't care what men want, they get offended and call men gross and shallow and sexist for wanting it.

So please spare us.

Imagine if men on this forum started a thread about the ideal pair of tits they want and how women should be more understanding and accommodating on this matter. It would be called outrageous and sexist. Even though there is no fundamental difference between wanting a big pair of tits vs wanting a man who offers you "feminine containment".

Women routinely misrepresent what they are attracted to in men. This confuses many men. Hence I say some of the things I say to men, to clear up that confusion in their minds. The situation is asymmetrical because men do not misrepresemt what they are truly attracted to in women. It would be like telling everyone how vegan you are, but when you get to the restaurant you always choose the pork ribs rather than the salad. It's important for the chef to know that what you really eat is the ribs vs the salad so he can plan accordingly, regardless of what you tell yourself in your head.

Women's attraction is less honest and more convoluted. A man's attraction is more direct and straight forward.

So false equivalence indeed! ;)


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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