Rilles

Trump Supporters Storming The Capitol! - MAGA Coup Mega-Thread

1,124 posts in this topic

@Etherial Cat

3 hours ago, Etherial Cat said:

Leninism and Stalinism were two attempt at Marxism. The Nazi hated communism and socialism.

I think a lot of people throw them in a bucket together because of how terrible it was at respecting what we call today human rights and because they had a strong leaders. But they are all significantly different.

   I think they felt threatened that the traditional structure the Nazi's envisioned would be destroyed when Stalin would invade Germany, sooner or later.

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@Yog

4 minutes ago, Yog said:

Socialist Bulgaria had women work as brick layers and construction workers.

NS Germany had the KKK - "Kinder, Küche, Kirche", or "children, kitchen, church" concept for what women are obligated to do.

Idk which one is more disturbing.

   I think that Nazi's had a more traditional view in their metaphysical background, so when Hitler saw what women were doing under communism, his image of women who are wives, working at the kitchens, baking bread, whatever the image of traditional women roles, was being threatened by communism.

   It seems Nazism is not just a cult, ethnic nationalist ideology, but also had elements of Patriarchy in it.

   Both NS Germany and communism are disturbing, like married sociopaths.

Edited by Danioover9000

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Don’t you realize that all of you together are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God lives in you?
1 Corinthians 3:16

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@Reciprocality

45 minutes ago, Reciprocality said:

I believe their economic policy were within a socialist framwork, just like that of the US today, socialism for the rich ofcourse. But the immidiate power-structure is quite alike, only the ends are hardly justified, aswell as impossibly sustainable. (that one serving the wealthy that is)

If however one is to argue that indeed it is right wing, then i for one will have a hard time arguing that free-market capitalism is aswell, seeing their structural divergencies.

   For sure, in terms of economy, they were proto-socialistic. MAGA and, maybe other radical ideologies under the radar, are the only ones very similar to Nazism.

   Could you explain why free market isn't right-wing?

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@Rilles

4 hours ago, Rilles said:

There is no confusion. Its a deliberate tactic from Right-Wingers that cant own up to the fact that their ideology is related to Hitlers so they muddy the waters. Ego is clever that way. Atleast I'll admit Stalin was a POS even though Im pretty Leftish. ;) 

   The People's Republic in China is one example of an ideology taking on socialism as a cover.

   While  know that dictators generally are right, what about dictators that're on the left?

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2 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Rilles

 While  know that dictators generally are right, what about dictators that're on the left?

I dont understand the question.


How strange it is to be anything at all

 

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@DocWatts

25 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

I wouldn't try to oversell to the Liberation of Women under the Soviet regime. In practice what it meant was that women could do manual labor alongside men under a repressive political regime. As far as women rising to positions of authority , the Soviet Union never had a female General Secretary, and most of the regional Party Bosses and Politburo members were men.

I'll grant that women had more opportunities than they would have under a fascist regime, but that's not a very high bar.

   Do you think it's mainly because the Nazis had a more traditional view of women? 

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28 minutes ago, Yog said:

Socialist Bulgaria had women work as brick layers and construction workers.

NS Germany had the KKK - "Kinder, Küche, Kirche", or "children, kitchen, church" concept for what women are obligated to do.

Idk which one is more disturbing.

As a black woman, no type of KKK policies are good for me it seems. :D

 


“If you are irritated by every rub, how will you be polished?” - Rumi.

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@Rilles

7 minutes ago, Rilles said:

I dont understand the question.

   Like Stalin, for example. He was a dictator, yet under the cover with Communism.

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Dictators use any framework to be dictators. There’s some on the left, some on the right and some in the middle. 
 

😋


Don’t you realize that all of you together are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God lives in you?
1 Corinthians 3:16

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23 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@DocWatts

   Do you think it's mainly because the Nazis had a more traditional view of women? 

Yes, and that's going to be generally true for all Reactionary ideologies which long for an idealized past, defend a rigid social hierarchy built around ethnicity and gender, and who view society as groups fighting against groups.


The problem is one of opposition between subjective and objective points of view. 

So either the objective conception of the world is incomplete, or the subjective involves illusions that should be rejected.  - Thomas Nagel

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1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Reciprocality

Could you explain why free market isn't right-wing?

@Danioover9000 It is, i believe. But if i were to concede that corporate socialism is right wing it would follow, due to their extreme divergencies that free-market capitalism is not.

It is not obvious that there is a bigger difference between Corporate Socialism as enacted in the U. S. and lets say Scandic Social Democracy, than there is between a free-market model and the U. S today. 

If we ought be, i claim: rational in our argumentation we neccesarily needs give such a free market model some moderation on its own, as is given to the premise regarding the left as a Nordic Model.

Where to strike the boundraries of such 'moderation' is surely not a simple task, but i hope it serves the conversation more then a mere begging of questions.

Edited by Reciprocality
forgot to tag

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If someone would have stolen an election, I don't care which side, protests would have been in fact legit.

The thing is, Biden won, there is no evidence of fraud and there is evidence that it has been a clean election. There is room for improvements, but votes were counted normally and the result was neat. No judge could accept any of his allegations or objections about the process as valid or significant to the results.

If someone is trying to steal the election, that's Trump. He had nothing to back his position up, and there he is, claiming that he has won and that the election has been stolen from him. What he has done has been a threat to democracy, unprecedented in US history. His party members have not been up to the situation either, as many of the loud media propagandists, but this last was expected. The MAGA mob that attacked the Capitol should respond for their actions, protesting is one thing, entering by force an official democratic institution is another, and the clash caused victims. But the chain of responsibility clearly ends up at the very top, this wouldn't have happened if Trump had not insisted on a victory that never belonged to him.

I never thought Trump had a chance to repeat as president, he didn't have the votes, no judge could accept his baseless claims, too much stretching for most media, and the military has not backed him either, which would have been a crazy last resort. He should be impeached or processed for this, the sooner, the better.

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@Hatfort 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻


Don’t you realize that all of you together are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God lives in you?
1 Corinthians 3:16

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2 hours ago, abrakamowse said:

 

These government officials keep feeding the delusion of the mob. It’s outrageously irresponsible. They should all resign or be removed. This has gone too far. 

Edited by Jennjenn

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1 hour ago, Hatfort said:

He should be impeached or processed for this, the sooner, the better

Yes. Trump should be removed from office,  and all the others who contributed to the lie should be removed and prosecuted as well. 

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54 minutes ago, Jennjenn said:

These government officials keep feeding the delusion of the mob. It’s outrageously irresponsible. They should all resign or be removed. This has gone too far. 

It’s crazy. Like Leo said, it’s a cancer of the mind.


Don’t you realize that all of you together are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God lives in you?
1 Corinthians 3:16

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Trump has been fabricating facts for 4 years ultimately producing his biggest fabrication of a stolen election.  Truth is important, and ignoring the truth leads to violence.  In the 1960s, the Supreme Court was dominated by free speech absolutists and they went too far in opening the range of permitted speech to include freedom for irresponsible and false speech.  There was no social media in the 1960s, and the laws have to be adjusted to take into account the new technology.  Truth is more important than freedom of speech.   False speech is not protected.  You can still be sued for defamation of character if the facts are false.   Social media actors who fabricate false information to destabilize the government and incite violence should be criminalized.  Banning them from social media won’t work because the Internet is a distributed architecture that can't be controlled and they can just create new platforms.  


Suffering is the origin of consciousness.  - Dostoevsky

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All speech ought be protected on public ground, except within cetain institutions and situations however narrow those exeptions may be. : )

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38 minutes ago, Jodistrict said:

Trump has been fabricating facts for 4 years ultimately producing his biggest fabrication of a stolen election.  Truth is important, and ignoring the truth leads to violence.  In the 1960s, the Supreme Court was dominated by free speech absolutists and they went too far in opening the range of permitted speech to include freedom for irresponsible and false speech.  There was no social media in the 1960s, and the laws have to be adjusted to take into account the new technology.  Truth is more important than freedom of speech.   False speech is not protected.  You can still be sued for defamation of character if the facts are false.   Social media actors who fabricate false information to destabilize the government and incite violence should be criminalized.  Banning them from social media won’t work because the Internet is a distributed architecture that can't be controlled and they can just create new platforms.  

Thing is free speech in principle could work if you didn't have bad actors deliberately muddying the waters and pushing the limits of it to destabilise and create chaos. The other issue is true believers of some potentially harmful ideology and its really hard to draw lines here because what could be classed as harmful? Maybe every dogmatic belief to some extent 

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