Leo Gura

Spiral Dynamics Stage Yellow Examples Mega-Thread

996 posts in this topic

30 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Add Sean Carrol, Sam Harris, and Daniel Dennet to the idiot column for completeness ;)

And add Newton, Leibniz, Godel, and Cantor to the really scientist column.

Science vs Scientism. ;)

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13 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Credits to The_Alchemist for finding this picture:

iMU0OWY.png

Perfect illustration of the differences between Yellow vs. Orange, Kuhnian philosophy vs. logical positivism, revolutionary science vs. normal science, scientific genius vs. popularizer, paradigmatic vs. formal operational cognition, epistemological awareness vs. blindness.

Great stuff

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Bunch of dirty *not so* old social Fives:D

Edited by Megan Alecia

"We are like the spider. We weave our life and then move along in it. We are like the dreamer who dreams and then lives in the dream. This is true for the entire universe."

-- The Upanishads

Encyclopedia

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First time poster and new to this so forgive me for stupid questions!

I've read that men like Jesus, Aristotle, Plato and the Buddha are Yellows.  They all existed 2000+ years ago though.  If people have to go through each level below, then how can they be Yellow when Orange didn't come into existence until 300 years ago and Green later than that and Yellow later than that?  One of the assumptions is incorrect if they are Yellows or they are not Yellows.  When they were alive the highest level of consciousness was only Blue therefore they can't be more than Blue.  A possible argument could be made that Jesus / Buddha aren't really only men (which can't be proven or denied) but that argument can't be made about Plato and Aristotle. I'm confused here.

 

Thoughts?

Justin

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31 minutes ago, JustinNashville said:

First time poster and new to this so forgive me for stupid questions!

I've read that men like Jesus, Aristotle, Plato and the Buddha are Yellows.  They all existed 2000+ years ago though.  If people have to go through each level below, then how can they be Yellow when Orange didn't come into existence until 300 years ago and Green later than that and Yellow later than that?  One of the assumptions is incorrect if they are Yellows or they are not Yellows.  When they were alive the highest level of consciousness was only Blue therefore they can't be more than Blue.  A possible argument could be made that Jesus / Buddha aren't really only men (which can't be proven or denied) but that argument can't be made about Plato and Aristotle. I'm confused here.

 

Thoughts?

Justin

I think they realized their rainbow nature ?? which transcends chronological progression of spiral colours


My Imagination is a Monastery and I am its Monk- John Keats

 Join me and SirVladimir for a collection of short stories, guided visualizations, and other forms of lucid/immersive daydreaming. MindVenture Facebook group  (this is not a meetup, merely a mutual interest in lucid daydreaming) 

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1 hour ago, JustinNashville said:

First time poster and new to this so forgive me for stupid questions!

I've read that men like Jesus, Aristotle, Plato and the Buddha are Yellows.  They all existed 2000+ years ago though.  If people have to go through each level below, then how can they be Yellow when Orange didn't come into existence until 300 years ago and Green later than that and Yellow later than that?  One of the assumptions is incorrect if they are Yellows or they are not Yellows.  When they were alive the highest level of consciousness was only Blue therefore they can't be more than Blue.  A possible argument could be made that Jesus / Buddha aren't really only men (which can't be proven or denied) but that argument can't be made about Plato and Aristotle. I'm confused here.

 

Thoughts?

Justin

While people like Aristotle and Plato were very advanced for thier time, it helps to place them in a historical context. The dominant SD-stage during thier era was Red, with Athenian Democracy representing very early Blue. Aristotle and Plato would probably be better classified as incredibly high functioning Blue. Remember that the emergence of Blue was a sign of moral progress at that time.

The Systems Thinking approach of Yellow would have been highly unlikely to develop in such an early era, before there was a cultural, philosophical, and scientific framework available to help facilitate it.

As to Jesus and Buddha, that's a bit trickier, since it's hard to separate the historical person and thier teaching from the thousands of years of mythology that developed around them; someone else might have more insights here.

Edited by DocWatts

The problem is one of opposition between subjective and objective points of view. 

So either the objective conception of the world is incomplete, or the subjective involves illusions that should be rejected.  - Thomas Nagel

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2 hours ago, JustinNashville said:

First time poster and new to this so forgive me for stupid questions!

I've read that men like Jesus, Aristotle, Plato and the Buddha are Yellows.  They all existed 2000+ years ago though.  If people have to go through each level below, then how can they be Yellow when Orange didn't come into existence until 300 years ago and Green later than that and Yellow later than that?  One of the assumptions is incorrect if they are Yellows or they are not Yellows.

I would hesitate to apply a SD stage to a place in history where that stage generally didn't exist, especially if it's two or more stages removed from the cultural backdrop. The individual is always in a transactional relationship with the environment, so even if they are starting to push the edge, there is always something that keeps them back. A stage also doesn't really have any solid ground to grow on if it's more than 1 above the mainstream of the society, because revolutionary thinking is more or less always grounded in a reaction to the status quo. That is why the stages took such a long time to evolve, because they ultimately require a gradual change on the societal level from one stage to the next.

Edited by Carl-Richard

To balance beauty and complexity so perfectly is a divine mystery.

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David Foster Wallace comes to mind when I try and come up with an example of a Yellow literary author, whos novels and essays delve into topics such as the limits of post-modernism, the corrupting influence of consumerism, and substance abuse and addiction. He was also highly influential in the development of post-postmodernism, or the literary and artistic movement known as 'the new sincerity'.
 



  

david-foster-wallace-386378.jpg

unnamed (1).jpg

Edited by DocWatts

The problem is one of opposition between subjective and objective points of view. 

So either the objective conception of the world is incomplete, or the subjective involves illusions that should be rejected.  - Thomas Nagel

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6 hours ago, JustinNashville said:

I've read that men like Jesus, Aristotle, Plato and the Buddha are Yellows.

No they weren't.

Modern people would be shocked at how backwards such people were compared today's standards.

The Buddha famously didn't think women should pursue enlightenment.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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Sustainable Development Goals

Quote

The Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs) or Global Goals are a collection of 17 interlinked global goals designed to be a "blueprint to achieve a better and more sustainable future for all". The SDGs were set in 2015 by the United Nations General Assembly and are intended to be achieved by the year 2030. They are included in a UN Resolution called the 2030 Agenda or what is colloquially known as Agenda 2030.

...

Though the goals are broad and interdependent, two years later (6 July 2017) the SDGs were made more "actionable" by a UN Resolution adopted by the General Assembly. The resolution identifies specific targets for each goal, along with indicators that are being used to measure progress toward each target. The year by which the target is meant to be achieved is usually between 2020 and 2030. For some of the targets, no end date is given.

To facilitate monitoring, a variety of tools exist to track and visualize progress towards the goals. All intend to make data more available and more easily understood. For example, the online publication SDG-Tracker, launched in June 2018, presents available data across all indicators. The SDGs pay attention to multiple cross-cutting issues, like gender equity, education, and culture cut across all of the SDGs. There were serious impacts and implications of the COVID-19 pandemic on all 17 SDGs in the year 2020.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sustainable_Development_Goals
More information: https://sdgs.un.org

List of the goals:

  1. No Poverty
  2. Zero Hunger
  3. Good Health and Well-being
  4. Quality Education
  5. Gender Equality
  6. Clean Water and Sanitation
  7. Affordable and Clean Energy
  8. Decent Work and Economic Growth
  9. Industry, Innovation and Infrastructure
  10. Reducing Inequality
  11. Sustainable Cities and Communities
  12. Responsible Consumption and Production
  13. Climate Action
  14. Life Below Water
  15. Life On Land
  16. Peace, Justice, and Strong Institutions
  17. Partnerships for the Goals

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20 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

No they weren't.

Modern people would be shocked at how backwards such people were compared today's standards.

The Buddha famously didn't think women should pursue enlightenment.

Thanks everyone for the responses. That makes a lot of sense!

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"Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.”

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On 30/12/2020 at 8:34 PM, Leo Gura said:

The Buddha famously didn't think women should pursue enlightenment.

This is very common outside the west. Men prevent women from attending religious sites because they don’t want to be distracted by a woman’s beauty and the sexual desire caused by looking at a woman. Classic stage Blue repression.


"Wanting keeps me from the awareness I already have it. I already am it.” — Byron Katie

 

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28 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

This is very common outside the west. Men prevent women from attending religious sites because they don’t want to be distracted by a woman’s beauty and the sexual desire caused by looking at a woman. Classic stage Blue repression.

..which is why the Buddha wasn't Enlightened.  Stage Orange at best.  


You may not like it, but this is what peak performance looks like.

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11 minutes ago, nitramadas said:

..which is why the Buddha wasn't Enlightened.  Stage Orange at best.  

Enlightenment and spiral dynamics are more or less separate. You can even be stage Purple and enlightened, for example some African medicine men.


"Wanting keeps me from the awareness I already have it. I already am it.” — Byron Katie

 

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@nitramadas I remember Sadhguru talking about his yoga centre, when he started a program for serious yoga pursuit. He said that a group of young men who were determined to work hard in yoga came, but the women (also doing the program) were too pretty and the men ended up leaving to get married.

Of course Sadhguru will not segregate men and women, but for stage Blue people (majority of the planet), the above scenario would be reason enough to ban all women.


"Wanting keeps me from the awareness I already have it. I already am it.” — Byron Katie

 

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Posted (edited)

43 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

Enlightenment and spiral dynamics are more or less separate. You can even be stage Purple and enlightened, for example some African medicine men.

You need to be challenged to actually know where you are.  Under no pressure everyone appears enlightened.

You need to raise the ego before it's worth the effort of killing it.  No one wants to be around an enlightened idiot who doesn't value anything/anyone, and can't give you a good debate.  If you hang out with people who consider themselves incompetent fools who've made that their reality, over time, forces will balance out, and you'll become like them.  Nothing wrong with that, but you're the director, and no choice is still a choice, so you might as well make the choices you want, and you better be as selfish as you can. 

"No good deed goes unpunished."

 

Turquoise is the bare minimum for being enlightened.

The stages don't e.g. start at "normal" and ascend into "something".  They end at normal, and begin at dysfunctional.

Don't let its rarity make you think it's something special.  It's what should be the standard.  Ever thought about how people people hundreds/thousands of years ago were unbelievably primitive with their IQs of ~70 or even ~30?  Humans used to be as dumb as dogs, and it was normal.  And now stage Blue is normal.  It's common for people to speak of Turquoise as something great, something abnormal & Blue/Orange/Green as something standard and ubiquitous, but that's just bias people have when looking through their own specific perspective.

So, yes, anything below Turquoise is inadequate.  Even Yellows are too immature, though I'm not sure I've seen a single one of those on this forum..

 

That said, any stage can have an enlightenment experience.  But that's completely unrelated and I've probably written an essay or two on that here before..

Edited by nitramadas

You may not like it, but this is what peak performance looks like.

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36 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

@nitramadas I remember Sadhguru talking about his yoga centre, when he started a program for serious yoga pursuit. He said that a group of young men who were determined to work hard in yoga came, but the women (also doing the program) were too pretty and the men ended up leaving to get married.

Of course Sadhguru will not segregate men and women, but for stage Blue people (majority of the planet), the above scenario would be reason enough to ban all women.

Surprising words from someone with that many posts..

Sadhguru is a well known bullshitter.  That's just how the most advanced Turquoists are.  They don't give a shit about being factually accurate, consistent, logical or well studied.  You'd need a Guru for that.  Sadhguru, etc. say whatever just to make some dumb old analogy.  Analogies/metaphors are like a whole other language for them, and they speak it instead of English.  You'll never know if Sadhguru's BSing or not, so take nothing he says literally, EVER!  Surely, you must've noticed how he laughs at everything he says, yes? *chuckles* Hello?!  Is this making sense? Hello?.. yes? *chuckles*

The man is fucking possessed..

 

Even if that crazy story is true, it would not warrant a statement such as:

Quote

The Buddha famously didn't think women should pursue enlightenment.

The Guru could always just separate them into different classes ..problem solved.  That story you mentioned is no different to me saying:

"lmao, they used to call me the town rapist as I had this habit of getting drunk and raping like 20 girls a night, lol amirite? but, like, I said to the judge: Well it's their fault for dressing like that! They expect to walk around WITHOUT having their face covered and NOT get raped? dafuq? right? The judge was understanding, and now I can legally rape them if they're without a face covering (or if I just rip it off, lol).  And that's why women should not be allowed to go outside unescorted."

Quote

the above scenario would be reason enough to ban all women

..Mmmhmm.  Well.. that's a perfectly good & rational opinion I guess; just as valid as mine..

 

lol.  You see the problem here, yes? *chuckles* ..Hello? 


You may not like it, but this is what peak performance looks like.

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