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As weird as it sounds I've come across descriptions of the same kind of thing. Basically even spiritual energies are regarded/recognized/worshiped as dualities... because people and the mind create dualities, that's just what we do. It's easiest to think of it in this example, the Christian church recognizes one, wicca and witchcraft recognizes another. They even imply gender, the Heavenly Father and the Goddess. Each deny the Oneness or divinity of the other. Because of the imbalance, severe imbalance can manifest as intense charisma, such as in the case of Hitler with severe consequences. And having grown up in Christianity, I've seen the same smaller scale effect in many pastors and leaders. Outside of religion, with people who recognize oneness and nonduality, the same imbalances can manifest.

Like I'm watching Leo's video on perception and it's not making sense. If there is no internal world, it is all external, and there is no bubble, it is all one big sponge, I am all of everything..... what do I do with this me stuff that remains? This body and these thoughts and this concious experience.... it doesn't go away just because I cease to believe in it. When ego dies there still remains an individual living a life with certain consious expereinces and not all of everything. I cannot suddenly become all of everything and leave this "body mind" thing. I'm limited and that won't go away until I literally die, and who knows what happens to that "soul" so if I'm nonduality itself, what happens to this me-ness? What am I supposed to do with it? It needs to eat and sleep and exercise and etc. I can't just stop being that - it hast to keep going - if it is an illusion what of it?

@Bluff You seem to have theoretical understanding of nonduality and are immersed in theoretical ruminations. There is nothing wrong with that and it can have practical value. Yet the theoretical ruminations can lead to contractions within, and attachment to, those theoretical constructs. You’ve got the theory of nonduality down pat. You understand in nondual theory how there is no degrees or stages of awareness. You seem fluent in this and you don’t need anymore work to realize there are no degrees or stages of awareness. This has truth, yet attachment to this truth is a limitation. If I say “I have already arrived”, that has truth from one perspective. Yet if I become attached to that belief and extrapolate it, it will block me from realizing that I also haven’t arrived. This is the dilemma of theoretical constructs, they have inherently contradictions. If I think “I have arrived” and I don’t take a step to a destination, I will fail because I will not move toward the destination. Yet if I think “I have not arrived” and I take steps toward the destination, I will fail because there is no destination separate from where I am here and now. To me, it looks like you have the nondual “arrival” theory down, which is a profound understanding of truth. Yet attachment to this aspect of truth will hinder realization and understanding of other truths you have not yet arrived to. What you are writing is not completely wrong. It is partial and incomplete.

99% of nonduality students and Buddhists and so forth. They don't understand DMT worlds.

As unbelievable as this sounds, I have reached levels of Awakening which clearly show me that no nonduality teacher is fully awake. But I don't expect you guys to believe me. Okay, so you've given them some degree of awakeness. But it's gonna be a very mild degree. I'm not saying you shouldn't do that. It could be very helpful. I'm just saying there are higher levels.

I agree that self-emptying is the path. However, there is always a blind spot. This can make us very passive in life for example. But incorporating this Divine pointlesness into everyday actions is what its about. Thats when you'll view this world as your playground and honour your vulnerability as a person in duality. This is the blind spot people. Why practice gratitude as everything is perfect in nonduality? Because of the impermanence is exactly why its perfect. We have no control on the circumstances in "duality". But the free will in duality gives us our eyes to birth creations through perception. So why the hell not?

@charles1 phenomenology is knocking on the door of nonduality but isn't quite the same thing (still too much categorization and fantasy). Idealism is way way way off. Idealism does not understand the difference between actuality and concept. When Leo uses the word "imagination," he means something totally different from your average ideas and thoughts. Idealism, not so much. They still have some sense that "reality" can be grasped through human mind-activity (ideas and thoughts). There is still hidden subconscious duality that is taken for granted, such as "there is an intelligence within me (separate from the rest of the perceived world) that is doing activity." Even the idealist believes that, even if they deny physicality and matter. There is no single process. Maybe you are describing your own process, but that is by no means universal

I’ve been listening to Em since I was 5 years old, I can guarantee you he has no idea what Enlightenment is, none of his lyrics even remotely touch on the subject. Eyedea on the other hand (r.i.p) was knee deep in NonDuality stuff.

@Leo Gura I acheived this enlightenment and greater from cannabis and tobbaco combined. The combination is perfect. Jump up and down notice form going up as you go down and as you go down form goes up. We are not bodies we are invisibility and nothingness pretending to be a me and a you. There is no man and no woman. Remember NONDUALITY.

I discovered something almost funny, maybe I have already mentioned something similar. Is the map the territory? From a nondual perspective the answer is yes! Is the menu the dinner? The answer to that too is yes. Haha. Seemingly crazy. The trick here is that nonduality means one single wholeness. Yes, there are dualities within the wholeness but dualities are actually also joined into a wholeness. So everything is the same "stuff" from a nondual perspective. The same with concepts. Is the word "tree" the same as an actual living tree? Yes, they are nondually (if that's a word) the same. And the past is the same as the future. Cause is the same as effect. Up and down are one. And so on. This kind of logic is of course not the classical logic used in philosophy and science. It's more like the kind of logic Shunyamurti mentioned in a video. I didn't find that Leo has a video particurlarly about logic, but this video about rationality may have some of that:

I'm 22, and I haven't had what I would characterize as a kundalini awakening, but I've had many "awakenings" where I again felt like I was dying, losing control, merging with God etc., and I do feel like I have what you can call energetic stuff happening throughout the day. The main thing is a subtle form of stiffness accompanied by small crackling noises every 5-ish seconds in the upper part of my spine, and if I sit in a comfortable upright position for prolonged periods of time, I interpret the crackling noises to be a type of unwinding of tension that goes on in my entire body. After a while, my body becomes very still, and the tension is concentrated in my forehead. The tension will keep building untill it sort of dissolves, and by then my mind is very quiet, and I'm heading straight down the path of feeling like I'm gonna die. I normally used to love when this kind of stuff would happen, but now it's happening on a totally different level than before, and it's scary. I know all that nonduality stuff: that fear is an illusion created by the ego, I'm the one creating the fear etc., but I just can't for the hell of me let go

I just rolled over Leo's blog to find some hidden old gems that can be quite refreshing to read and watch while he's away. And don't forget to take action! Some of his views may have changed on some of the older ones, but they're still very valid. Text Posts: https://actualized.org/insights/a-description-of-enlightenment https://actualized.org/insights/the-best-mix-for-enlightenment https://actualized.org/insights/educate-yourself-about-enlightenment https://actualized.org/insights/whats-the-best-time-to-meditate https://actualized.org/insights/yoga-ftw https://actualized.org/insights/nothing-i-say-can-be-trusted Video Posts: 2017: https://actualized.org/insights/understanding-better-than-academics https://actualized.org/insights/changing-perspectives-destroys-reality 2018: https://actualized.org/insights/metaphysics-vs-epistemology https://actualized.org/insights/all-understanding-is-metaphoric https://actualized.org/insights/all-understanding-is-metaphoric-part-2 https://actualized.org/insights/skepticism-and-nonduality https://actualized.org/insights/dont-half-ass-yoga https://actualized.org/insights/sitting-posture-for-yoga-meditation https://actualized.org/insights/may-2018-solo-retreat-part-1 https://actualized.org/insights/may-2018-solo-retreat-part-2 https://actualized.org/insights/may-2018-solo-retreat-part-3 https://actualized.org/insights/hawaii-april-2018-late-night-insights https://actualized.org/insights/mindfucked-in-hawaii 2019: https://www.actualized.org/insights/miracle-awakening https://www.actualized.org/insights/ego-collapse-awakening https://actualized.org/insights/total-omniscience-awakening https://actualized.org/insights/dpt-the-other-god-molecule https://actualized.org/insights/sense-organs-are-imaginary https://actualized.org/insights/do-i-doubt-myself https://actualized.org/insights/infinite-love-awakening https://actualized.org/insights/how-to-test-for-self-bias https://actualized.org/insights/rethinking-human-history https://actualized.org/insights/tapping-into-collective-consciousness

Sounds like you're proposing an ethical "bait-and-switch" of some sort! Many times I wonder if that might be my calling as well. Nonduality can be seen as a rather different "subject matter" from what most would consider "normal" - science, mathematics, history, english, etc. All of these more "conventional" subjects arise from the thinking mind using symbols. Nonduality is the opposite of that, you might say. "Nonduality" is not even a "subject matter" - it's not even a thing! So how the hell do you share that with someone wedged in a web of symbolic beliefs? I mean I mostly hide my "spiritual" side in public, I know I will sound dysfunctional and crazy if I start talking about this. It really does come down to individual bodhisattvas "watering things down" doesn't it? I don't see any other way of facilitating a massive cultural shift. Someone has to sort of "take the blow" - and sacrifice going all the way (not only in their personal growth - but also in their teachings) - for the sake of empathy by delivering a "kiddie version" of nonduality as though it were low-hanging fruit. Even if they had reserved "higher teachings" for committed students, their split focus would be a hindrance. And this archetype is nothing new, it's been around for millennia. But I feel that it might be more applicable to our current generation than ever before, given the sheer amount of comfort and distraction our society offers. Alan Watts is a good example of someone like this. Amazing introduction to this stuff, but his speeches get repetitive and stop helping you once you outgrow them and commit to a personal journey. And it's not uncommon knowledge that he was never truly "enlightened" himself - he was just more or less aware of his True nature, but apparently settled for a glimpse and had more of a focus on social impact. Even Alan freakin' Watts doesn't seem to be enough these days though, I've tried encouraging people to check out his speeches and they would only make people more confused. I used to wonder why cheesy group "mindfulness and meditation" centers existed, since those centers are never really serious about existential work and they usually just market as "stress relief," but now I understand.

But what if free will and individual doership are real? In ego consciousness we cannot prove nor disprove that. And even as I intellectually think my model is logically consistent, the model can be false. And what about the depersonalization disorder in psychology where the individual experiences himself or herself as a passive observer? As I understand spiritual enlightenment conceptually, it's about actualizing oneness. Depersonalization disorder is totally different because then the person experiences even more separation from reality. Spiritual enlightenment is about the absence of separation at the fundamental level. Nonduality teacher Roger Castillo (who sometimes uses ACIM quotes) said that his teaching which he learned from Ramesh Balsekar is about replacing the ego concept in the mind with new concepts about nonduality. I like that approach since it can be tested in one's own experience. If there is truth to nonduality then there is a possibility that the nondual concepts become true in the sense of actualizing oneness.

BREAKTHROUGH: After not meditating for about 3 days and simply following my hedonism. I decided to just meditate for an hour. I was becoming aware of how my mind and brain function more or to simply how my consciousness functions to not give it limitations. I was literally meditating and I began to think of love and I was overwhelmed by the unlimited amount of warmth. Of course, that was something I found extremely interesting in what I was basking in was wonderful. Before all of this occurred I began to undergo this trial which made me feel extremely fearful for no reason, once my awareness was able to see that this was all being made up by the mind I was able to complete this mini-trial but it was heart racing. I would admit this was the first time I have ever been able to become aware of these small trials before receiving love. I was able to become aware of the little tension my brain creates and just simply being gave me everything sort to speak. Then I again asked myself in my self Inquiry “Who Am I” and I could feel each word and were in my brain they were occurring and I noticed how the “I” was occurring in my heart. Through my knowledge of Nonduality and its theory, I was able to knock many challenges know to keep my cool. One of the more interesting aspects of this was how it seemed to be me communing with some type of feminine energy and also manly annoying person energy... I’m sure this just simply is myself but it was a cool interaction.

I actually kind of like this. The language is a little too religious for me, but it's right in that we have to literally "surrender ourselves" (give up the lower-case self) to open our hearts. Love can only enter in the absence of fear and self-identification, so your identity must be expanded greatly. Chris is also right that any written phrase can only be rightly interpreted by gaining the proper body of experience, or in this case a raise in consciousness. The core of every major religion *at conception* is mysticism and nonduality, and I think it's fascinating that there are still high-consciousness remnants in all major texts despite millennia of distortions.

Thanks for this great example. @SOUL Notice that while this is a potent explanation of the Absolute, and it can't be said much clearer than this, even still it is utterly meaningless and confusing to you or to anyone who hasn't experienced it. Any explanation can only reflect on your own direct experience, so, we can deduce that this explanation cannot bring any seeker closer to It. If you're awake: "cool story bro." If you're a genuine seeker: "huh that sounds interesting what the fuck?" You're trying to use duality to... Cut duality? Can a knife cut itself? You're seeped in the very thing you're trying to rid yourself of. Leo understands this deeply, and yet leaves open lines of debate and inquiry into the Absolute, and he seriously answers them. My question is... Why? Let me give an example. "What is nonduality?" My answer: "I can tell you what it is not. It is not anything that you can imagine, write, speak, watch, smell, feel, or think about." "Ok... So what is it?" "....silence*" "I'm serious, what is it?" "...Now you see our little predicament." Even to say, "nonduality means that everything is one and all distinctions are imaginary." Is already painting a dualistic picture and not getting you any closer to it. The number "one" will be interpreted as an integer, distinct from zero or two. It will most likely be visualized as a sphere. Are you getting the picture? Everything that is said about nonduality on this forum daily is a fruitless fucking game. Now, go back and re-read this thread. Thank you for your time and understanding. ?

Let me ask you this: can I answer this question an infinite number of ways? We are not interpreting the meaning of Shakespeare's plays. Your arguments hold up when concerning relative, ambiguous works like poetry, but the beauty (and downfall) of this sub-Forum is that we try to grapple with the Absolute. What THAT is cannot be communicated in any way. What language CAN do is serve as a pointer, and pointers have relative levels of accuracy in pointing to an object. "Hate is the metaphysical root of reality, so we should further Nazi ideas" would be removed from the forum because it's a pointer in the opposite direction of Truth. Truth is metaphorically the object towards which we want to point. Of course Truth isn't an object. A pointer is relative, limited, and has no substance. Notice that an expression of language does not contain meaning within itself, rather, it produces images and ideas within you that you then relate to create webs of meaning. These images are based on your own body of experience. So, You cannot communicate a novel experience or idea. You cannot communicate a higher level of consciousness. So if you're not already awake, all pointers towards Truth, no matter how "accurate," will not get you closer to It. This is because IT is something outside your body of experience... It is a novel experience way beyond words. In this way, all interpretations of enlightenment, nonduality, and the Absolute are by definition misleading. *An interpretation through language brings up images in your mind, all of which are finite, 2-D or 3-D. ANYTHING you can say or think about it is NOT THAT.* Truth cannot be taught. Leo's videos on these subjects can be helpful, but only because I awakened already. Ultimately it's just more story that separates you from truth. In essence, a pointer only becomes visible when you have the necessary body of experience. And because each word reflects on your own unique experience, any one interpretation will have a slightly different meaning to each person that reads it, but the general direction is there. Language is such a crude tool. Infinity of experience, not of expression through language.

maybe @lmfao has something to say to this? @Lento seems to have jumped on a critique train stemming of this thread - while the critique was not even thoroughly researched. in a thread that wanted to talk about abuse in the forum. i guess lento is fast to jump in for everyone, which is pretty cool on one hand, but really bad if it’s about some made up problematic regarding ideologies - which make real nonduality wars. it‘s not good or bad in the sense of good and evil - it’s just carrying on the devilry which was supposed to stop there. this is just an observation - maybe if talked through could change something about the situation. but its in a sense right, its ok to critique some things, but stirring up the whole forum and questioning leo while he’s on a retreat... seems somehow like something rather low spiritual. without any grudge - because lento and me had a talk out, i did not take it as something against me that he stood up for martin123. (just to avoid any ideas or interpretation about my intention of this post - in the end he is responsible for what he’s posting himself - its just sad that it seems like it happened because of a maybe even unintended stirr up) although i sometimes question the reasoning, too, if critique gets stronger punishment than abuse - it actually doesn’t matter how people are reasoning... the outcome somehow does not compute with the equation.

1. You will not find infinite variety of expression here. It's already quite limited. 2. ANY interpretation is delusion, that's my point. I'm not saying that one true selection of words is the way, I'm saying it's all bullshit. The no-interpretation, or the riddle/koan gets you closer to the realization. Everything you find here about consciousness, enlightenment, and nonduality is in fact misleading. It may or may not be coming from a deluded place, but the act of poor translation through language to another, less experienced reader is the delusion. That being said, I have no problem with people bullshitting, but I feel like we need to let newbies know that they must experience it first before they mentally masturbate about it. We kinda do that already, but as it stands now I wouldn't recommend this forum to a seeker. If I'm not mistaken, that's the purpose of the forum.

I see where you're coming from. However, I think we should do more to steer people away from mentally masturbating about enlightenment and nonduality on the forum. It's a real trap. What you're saying is like, "well people know to not get addicted to opiates right? If they get addicted it's THEIR fault." We know that's not entirely true. Show more compassion! We need to take responsibility... this is a resource for newbies. If people wanna bullshit here on the forum, that's totally fine. But more could be done to make it abundantly clear that conceptualizing post-rational states of consciousness won't get you ANYWHERE. Not even a little bit. Talking to newbies about nonduality will never get them closer to that realization of their true nature, precisely because language is relative to an individual's experience they've already had. It's impossible to communicate a higher state of consciousness. That wasn't made clear to me until I had this epiphany a couple years after the fact. I've reflected on it more, and I don't think we should shut down this subforum. It serves a purpose in ways that may seem counter-intuitive at first. But I think it's a little too free-range as it stands right now. We encourage newbies to participate in discussions way outside their current consciousness... and that's honestly unconscionable if we really value their growth. Perhaps the resources need to be updated... made more concise and on-the-nose about the dangers and traps of such work. That's all I'm advocating for.

As stated in the thread, the thread was locked for spreading misinformation about awakening and God. Leo said in his latest video, the forum will have higher standards about the spread of misinformed opinions. If the opinions expressed are spreading misinformation, there is a good chance a thread will get locked. For example, if someone started threads about their "opinions" that the coronavirus is a hoax created by China, the thread will likely get locked. Similarly, the spread of misinformation about conspiracy theories, meditation, psychedelics, Reiki, genetics, awakening, nonduality, God etc. may get locked. . . One cannot use "It's just my opinion" as a shield while spreading misinformation. Be here to learn and grow.

Actually, in my model consciousness can flow into the entire body. Nonduality teacher Roger Castillo has talked about consciousness moving from the head to the heart. And I have actually briefly experienced expansion of my consciousness into the heart area. It was a bit different than how I imagined Castillo's description because my consciousness was during that short experience both in my head and in my heart at the same time as a unified field. I will experiment with allowing consciousness to flow into my whole body as a part of my overall healing practice.

@TheAvatarState I agree with most of what you are saying. Which is why I try to not not to spend much time here, althou the drama of reality can be fun to engage in However doesnt the forum guidelines and even more "non duality wars not allowed here" warn about this stuff? But maybe it should be added to that how this forum can be a kind of trap since nonduality cannot be expressed in language.

Hi. Yesterday I came back from the cinema and during the movie I was thinking about all the stuff involved with nonduality, God and so forth. That may not be a direct realization but I felt some kind of state "over" physical reality. After that I was going to home and during the journey I was more centered and felt really good and full of enthusiasm. Whole that state has gone after something like a few, maybe 3 hours. What do you think? Could it be some kind of mystical experience leading to the path to awekening or am I only cheating myself?