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There is no life after death folks. There is no reincarnation. Is here and now, having a long lifespan is not egoic, is the opposite. Do not confuse EGO with the body. EGO is within the body but the body is not the EGO. The body is the awareness we all talk about. No body, no awareness of the self. When you say: "I will identify with X or Y", the identification feeling or being is the whole body at work. Mainstream spirituality is just that, a more open-minded Christian version of thought. The non-duality paradigm on today's explanation on the matter is usually limited. Immortality is a perfect balance within the energetical system centers of the body, is a transcendence from childhood into Buddhahood. Adulthood is a curse at the same time a natural course on the level of planetary vibration. We, humans, are like this planet, we need to transcend the earth influence of the cycle of death and rebirth in order to transcend. Transcend into what you might ask; into infinite physical/non-physical growth. Stop being a follower is the start. Begin to reconnect the attention and focus on the being that you are. There is no enlightenment outside the body, period!

@ThrowAway Ian Stevenson studied this topic extensively and released his findings. The study indicated that reincarnation is most likely true. If you google it, you can find more information.

You mentioned it before in another thread but I was hoping for more elaboration. It's funny how before I began doing self inquiry exercises (as per Ramana Maharshi) I really did believe that ego death was possible. I guess it was hope but of course after having some samadhi experiences, I took it more seriously. I don't think the idea of reincarnation is wacky or unbelievable. It really makes sense but I would like to know if it's possible to know if it's true or not. I suppose an important question to ask is why is the answer important to know? I know Buddha is reported to have told devotees inquiring about if God was real or not to not waste their time on things they will never be able to prove true. Those who achieve enlightenment may have different interpretations of it (God-Realization or End of Suffering) but they will know/experience the ultimate truth, that we are not the body nor the mind, but instead the witness (pure consciousness). If I was to never know if reincarnation was real or not, I would still pursue my spiritual path. But if I was to find out it was true, I feel like I would make more progress surrendering. Thank you.

Skip to 7:30 mark, a woman asks about reincarnation.

@CreamCat You will care about equality more when you realize that you will reincarnate as every living being who ever lived or will live. That will sober the smugness out of ya. @Leo Gura Leo, both vedantic and buddhist concepts of reincarnation make sense to me but did you experience something that proves reincarnation is real? If so what yogic method did you use? Or is this statement made on faith? I could care less for siddhis but if I was able to experience that reincarnation is in fact real (just like how an individual has to experience "God" for themselves), that would help me surrender to life much more than I already do now. Edit: Sorry for the typos and double copy/paste. I'm a new user to the forum

That makes me want to puke. The thought of becoming my parents' dog that was killed in a car accident is sickening. Perhaps, this reincarnation thing is not serial but infinitely parallel. Think of an infinitely parallel processor. Why do you think I will be reincarnated as a dog or something else after I physically die? I might be being reincarnated millions of times even now. I want to be reincarnated as the overseer of reality or some sort of creature with god-like power. I want to taste godhood of some sort. This human life doesn't really feel like godhood. I want to know the reach of godhood. I want to make a house appear out of nothing.

"this is the only way out of this endless hell in which consciousness keeps changing forms forever" What exactly is this endless hell you're talking about? There is no way out of consciousness and its manifestation. Reincarnation doesn't exactly conflict with the one life idea. Being born in another life is just another manifestation of consciousness. Motivation for the current corporeal form you have ultimately comes from an innate desire to make use of it. Its about living in the present and using the potential "future" to morph your present into what you want.

Hi Leo, Just a thought. Are you not short selling the concept of becoming a sage or getting enlightened etc. by sticking to "one life" concept? I understand that if this world is an illusion then so is life and death from that angle. But is "getting best out of rest of the life" enough reason to motivate individuals to start this tough journey when next breath one takes could be the last one? Do not you think putting this in some other way like “this is the only way out of this endless hell in which consciousness keeps changing forms forever” may be more motivational? In this case it doesn’t matter how old one is or how long one will live in this body, this journey of self-realization has to be started at some point as there is no other way out of it. And if self-realization is not attained in this life then it will continue in next life form without losing the hard work from previous life. I know no one can claim the truth of this concept but hey this can motivate even if someone is at the deathbed. Yes, actualize.org has lot of similarities to Sikhism. But reincarnation is the central theme in Sikhism like most other eastern religions. Hell is coming back into forms and merging back with the source is the Heaven. I'll really appreciate your response to this post. Thank You.

What say ye, o' wise ones? Speculation and total BS 100% allowed.

I know good and bad are just meaning that are attached, but are you life events still happening for a reason? This goes more into stuff like reincarnation. Does anybody here know more about it?

So this is a report about 10-day retreat in a vipassana center near Moscow, Russia. I am 20 years old guy from Moscow interested in self-actualization work. Got Into self-develeopment around 2.5 years ago. Got into meditation and installed my daily meditation habit 1 year ago. First discovered spiritual domain of self-development half year ago. Trying to figure out my life purpose now and advance in spiritual work. I have many insights in this report. It's not that I got all of them for the first time in my life. I was getting some of them before but now I was deepening my understanding and realizing the ideas on a much more profound level. One day before 1 day before the retreat I told my family where I am going and they got very suspicious about my endeavor. They didn't know that I'm into consciousness work and that I already have 1 year of daily meditation habit under my belt, so for them it was a surprise. They tried very hard to talk me out of this using all kinds of crazy justifications. They'd tell that this is just a sect, that they would take my money and everything, that it is "the devil's worshipping", they would tell scary stories about their own experience with sects in their youth and say that I wouldn't tolerate such strict schedule. The force of Homeostasis felt very real. I knew I was shaking a boat but at that point I didn’t care, deep down I knew I'm doing the right thing. But still, this situation with family made me suffer emotionally Day 0 I arrived at train station and according to guide I needed to walk for like 20 minutes by foot to enter that center. During this walk I had to face all my doubts. I was telling myself things like "Wtf I'm even doing, searching for something unknown in a wild russian forest and I don't even know if they will take me or not (I was in a waiting list, so i had no guarantees)". But it also felt somewhat romantic to me, it felt like an adventure and it really was one. I had the strong feeling that most precious and meaningful things in life are exactly like this - in order to get\find them you have to travel to the end of the world and seek for them in some deep russian forest without any certainty, having only the faith in what you do, in yourself. I finally found the center, it looked like a summer camp. I entered and saw some girls walking around in a very tranquil and chill manner. I approached one and asked her where can I find the registration place. She looked at me and holyshit, I was amazed by her very soft, gentle and open gaze, it felt like she was completely "in a present moment", she felt so "free", it was amazing, . I knew for sure that she was meditating on a daily basis. Also from that moment on I knew I found "the right place", I found this "gem" I was looking for. She gladly showed me the way to the kitchen. When I was approaching the kitchen I saw the group of people and the very tall (over 2m) guy, who was talking about the point of meditation in a little bit preachy manner, that thing amazed me too, I was starting to have a paradigm shift, I've never ever saw someone discussing meditation in real life. Also all these people seemed to be stage green in "Spiral Dynamics" and I was happy as fuck about that as I was struggling to meet green people in my ordinary life. I finally got into registration place. I got lucky and there was an open slot for me as some guy didn't come to the course. They assigned a bed and a safe to me. I had to lock all electronics\writing devices\all intellectual stuff in a safe. At first I was a little bit hesitant to put everything I had (ID, money, etc) into it but the safe keeper lady assured me that it is better to leave everything here so you don't have to worry about someone stealing your shit. I agreed with her. I sneaked a journal and a pen which was against the rules but I felt like I really needed it. They showed me to my room, I had 3 more people living in a room with me. I acclimated to a room a little bit and went to a general meeting. On that meeting they told us about the structure of our retreat and introduced us to schedule. They explained that vipassana was originally kept as monk only tradition but in last century it started to get unfolded to common people via these centers thanks to Goenka. Since it is a monk tradition we were supposed to live the monk lifestyle for 10 days.The schedule was such that we would wake up at 4 am, meditate for 10-11 hours each day with some breaks for rest and eating. Some of these hours allowed meditation inside your own room, other hours were strictly At night we would have a 1.5h lecture and we were supposed to go to sleep at 9-9.30 pm. The first lecture was today. On that lecture they told us a little bit about what is vipasana, told the rules and introduced to the meditation technique called "anapana". Basically it is focusing on breath. We were supposed to practice it all day tomorrow. Also there was kinda an "initiation" process. We had to vow that we would follow 5 rules: 1. Noble silence (no speaking to other students until 10th day) 2. No stealing 3. No sexual stuff 4. No lying 5. No intoxicans So called "old students" had to vow for 3 more: 6. Fasting after midday 7. Not to wear fancy things (jewelry, etc) 8. To not sleep on high and luxurious beds (I think all beds were the same tho) After that we went to sleep, noble silence began. Even though it was prohibited to journal I felt the need be a little bit flexible with this particular rule, so I journaled a little bit from time to time. It backfired a bit on my meditation practice as journaling triggers the thinking mind, but not that much. The value of keeping a journal and writing insights far outweighed "the losses". As expected, had trouble getting asleep first night, I wasn't in a mood to sleep at all. I've read on some forum that on a retreat like this you will "remember everything", so I reasoned why not start doing it now. I remembered my last intimate relationship in a lot of details, analyzed everything, found more egoic patterns from my side. Day 1 I ended up sleeping for only 1h. Despite sleeping for only 1h I didn't want to sleep at all whole day. So we woke up from a gong sound, did grooming stuff and went to a meditation hall. The hall was separated by 2 parts - for women and men. There were exactly 100 meditation mats. There was also a huge basket with a ton of different pillows, meditation benches and plaids and we could take them. Everyone and I started quite modestly with this stuff but later we started to experiment with all that building huge castles and temples from cushions. It was actually pretty funny to observe. But everyone kinda chilled near days 3-4 and a lot of people went minimalistic mode with that (me too, I was only using 4 cushions, haha). We proceeded to meditation. On a first day we were given a breath concentration technique, nothing fancy, the main struggle was that in ordinary life I would do meditation for 30 minutes~ and sometimes maybe more and there I had to sit for 2 hours straight. Each day we had new modifications to techniques. It was very hard for me at first but I got accustomed after a while. My main strategy and goal with this retreat was to contemplate about my life, life in general and life purpose. So that is what I was doing during break times. My contemplations proceeded in meditation sessions to some extent and the thinking mind was crazy during them. Regarding eating: we had a very nice vegetarian cousin with bits of dairy but usually you could avoid it easily if you wanted to. There was a shit ton of different species and teas to choose from. Some of them were ordinary teas (with caffeine), but there were also a lot of herbal teas aswell, I really indulged on those. Also there were different jam's and honey for satisfying a sweet tooth. I tried to avoid gluten and dairy but after a while my skin got really sloppy and unhealthy look from lack of protein, I was basically eating 10-20 grams of protein per day (and usually I eat around 100-200) so I had to include these to get at least SOME protein. It helped. I learned what granola is, loved it! I totally avoided caffeine, all bread and all sugar containing products. To satisfy a sweet tooth I used honey. I tried to limit my food intake and to not eat too much. I often times fasted after midday.We had a guru who was meditating in meditation hall with us teaching us the technique. We could speak to him privately after a lunch time. I hoped to see some stage turquoise person, a real enlightenment master but as it turned out, this guru wasn't enlightenment. He looked like an ordinary human without any crazy "guru attributes". But nonetheless he was pretty wise, compassionate and it felt like his ego was greatly numbed. He was from India and had a pretty good English. There were special people who would translate Russian-English for you if you needed it. But these translators were not the best, sometimes they would mess up a translation so guru wouldn't understand all subtleties and would be forced to give a generic answer. I spoke to him in English only because I could. I abstained from speaking to him on the first day since I slept only for 1h but after day #1 I spoke to him nearly everyday. The first day was pretty intense for me, I got to my bed and had troubles getting asleep again. They say it is normal. Day 2 Slept for 5 hours. Had sleepiness throughout the day. This day I spoke to guru. Told him about my life situation and my goals for this retreat and asked some questions regarding technique. He told me to stop forcing thinking and strategizing during my rest hours and entrench in mindfulness instead and if the thoughts come - let them come, accept them, all strategizing should be delayed to the end of the course. Also I asked him some questions about enlightenment but he parried those and said he would answer everything in the end and now I shouldn't worry about it and focus on my practice. At first I kinda resisted his advice but then decided to follow it. Because I was no longer forcing myself to think too much I had the best meditation gains in my life. My concentration ability literally skyrocketed and I was able to stay focused for a very long time. It was still hard tho, physically and emotionally. I suffered. But it was a good kind of suffering! The kind of suffering that grows you. I came up with an insight that sometimes in life you gotta suffer just to get the opportunity to get the right kind of suffering you need. Also during this day I've got a lot of insights on leadership. I noticed how all amazing stuff in life happens through Leadership. Leadership is literally everything and Leadership is fundamental to happiness. You can't just sit on your ass and expect that status quo will be changed to your benefit in some magic way. You have to destroy status quo yourself, you have to go and carve your path through a wild Russian forest with machete to find a vipassana retreat if you need to. Of course the prime and most important leadership is self-leadership, everything starts with it. But there are shit tons of other types of leaderships. Leadership in relationships with friends, in intimate relationships, in social groups, in your workplace, in your busyness. If you want to make something happen or build something that you want (it can be a certain relationship or busyness or anything else) you HAVE to take initiative and DO STUFF. I was also continuing to have a paradigm shift from environment. Everyone in this camp meditated with me and I started to notice how this all was becoming NORMAL to me. I noticed the power of perspective. I also noticed how my parents ruined their lives by staying in comfort and being afraid to go see things and collect different perspectives. They stay in their own little bubble and demonize everything that is not inside it. Some meditation retreat - "Must be a devil worshipping. Don't go there! They will kill you and steal everything from you!". But of course in reality people on these retreat turned out to be one of the most kind and nice people I've seen in my entire life. On lectures they speak about basic Buddhist concepts in a very soft manner. There is some indoctrination of course and they make a big emphasis on ethics and morals but there was close to 0 dogma. They didn't ask to believe in karma, reincarnation and other shit, they were trying to teach the pure teaching of Buddha without bullshit. Also they stress independent thinking and first hand experience very much which is quite cool. Also I go the wibe that this course is designed for common people. Not in terms that it is not hardcore. It is pretty hardcore. But it is basically designed to make common people more happy, to set them on spiritual path, to show them the way. They don't stress epistemic and metaphysical truth seeking at all. Day 3 My sleeping patterns became better from this day and I was sleeping 5-6 hours per day consistently (usuallly I sleep 8). We were still using focusing on breath meditation technique but everyday we were kinda "narrowing" our "area of focus". They say it is supposed to sharpen the mind. Meditation schedule was intense, was hard but I was managing. I felt like my presence and mindfulness increased with each day. Was thinking about one close ex-friend of mine who was really insecure and unconscious and it triggered me emotionally big time so it fucked up few hours of meditation due to nonstop thinking mind. I thought about what people I want to befriend and what to avoid a lot. Got an insight that the more profound and amazing the thing in life is the more nicely it is hidden. Sometimes it is in reverse but it usually takes a huge awareness to notice this thing so it still remains hidden for an ordinary eye. Also, damn, everyday I was looking at these girls. The girls that were meditating 10 hours day. I just fell in love. It was so amazing to see, especially contrasting them with "ordinary" girls you see in a conventional society who chase all kinds of petty stuff. Today on lecture they talked about enlightenment. They represented it as a state of seeing things totally as they are, the direct experience of universe and connected it to quantum mechanics and string theory. The quoted Buddhas words how he was seeing the world as little vibrations and waves 2500 years ago. They also try to teach epistemology which is super nice. They make a clear distinction between Belief, Intellectual understanding and direct experience of a phenomena stressing that the latter is the best way to learn and see the world. Enlightenment - first hand direct experience of a universe. I agree that first hand experience is the most trustworthy thing that we have and it certainly possible to experience the reality first handedly through awareness. But how can we trust the direct experience? How can we be sure that even a direct experience is 100% correct? How can we be sure that the Truth of enlightenment, so called "ultimate truth" is truly ultimate? That kept me wondering and I realized there is probably a lot more stuff beyond enlightenment to comprehend and realize but enlightenment still is worth pursuing because seems like it gives you an objective picture of our given reality. Who knows what is beyond our reality and what reality truly is. Day 4 On this day we finally moved past the breathing technique and began the actual Vipassana. They were talking about Equanimity A LOT this day and next days and I myself really fell in love with this concept. What equanimity basically is is staying emotionally untouched by the occurring phenomena, uncreativeness. Finally got introduced to vipassana technique. The technique of vipassana is observing the body in a certain manner, trying to feel the sensation in each part of your body and staying unreactive to pleasant\unpleasant\blank sensations, fully detached emotionally. They have a whole theory on how our body reacts to your emotional swings and the ability to control your emotions lies in mastering the skill to ignore and detach from the body reaction. All phenomena is impermanent, raising and passing away! That day we were introduced to Strong Determination Sitting and from this now on we had to do it for 1h 3 times per day!!!. For those who don't know what SDS is, it is basically sitting for a set amount of time without changing your posture, moving as less as possible. That was challenging! Of course, if the things went too south we were able to move and adjust but we were highly encouraged to do it as little as possible and preferably never at all. It was the hardest days of all for me because of SDS. Later it got easier. On a lecture they were talking a lot about equanimity and cause and effect topic. Basically about how we are fucking up our lives by our reactiveness and shitty mindsets. They kinda introduced us to context vs content concept. All situations are dependant on context and what really important is your intent, what you mean to do on your mental level. The content, i.e. what you speak and what you do, your "action" - doesn't matter that much. Everything starts from consciousness.They teach that all suffering comes from our reactiveness to a phenomena, from lack of equanimity, from not perceiving reality objectively as it is, which is quite true. And we were meant to receive a direct experience of this truth and also the truth of impermanent nature of the universe. All phenomena (everything!) has a property of arising and passing away. And holyshit, I've received a shit ton of direct experience of this! You better believe me. After some time I had a thought "damn, I imagine what would happen if I could receive a pickup training with such intensity" Day 5 That day everyone seemed so chill calm and me too… True spirituality is about observing reality objectively as it is , not as we want it to be. (Reminds you of science manifesto) On lection they said that a lot of people leave on days 5-6 because it's too hard, well it certainly is hard. Day 6 Holyshit, I develop equanimity with such a fast rate from all this practices. Equanimity is amazing, super foundational skill. It gives you the freedom and choice to react or not to react and how to react to a phenomena. A must have skill in life. In that day I had huge realizations on how EQ (emotional intelligence) is so much more important than IQ (intellect) in almost all facets if your life. It is like 10-15x more important. It is pure emotional mastery, you HAVE to develop it if you are to do something in life. All days I was developing a cold and this day I actually got sick. I had rainy nose and with that it was 5x harder to meditate. I regretted I didn't take any medication with me. Althought this cold in some sick way helped to develop even more equanimity and sense the impermanent nature of reality even more, Anicha. My roommate saw my "suffering" , spoke to me and gave me a pill. That pill didn't help much but it was kinda nice to see that someone was flexible with rules just as I as I was keeping the journal. On days 2 or 3 my pen died and I had no writing device anymore. But there was a marker in our dorm with which we were supposed to sign our plastic glasses. I had to sneak this marker everytime I wanted to write something and then return it. For me it was a separate quest, a stealth-like mission. I tried to ask for a medication from managers. They had everything I need but I needed the guru's permission to take it. Could only see guru the next day. Got some stage blue wibe from that. Day 7 Couldn't sleep at night at all due to my cold. Anicha, Anicha, Anicha (impermamence in pali), repeated it like a mantra. Finally met a guru and got my cure. Feeling better but still sick. Still being amazed how big equanimity is. Having a feeling that the best known self-development concepts and techniques regarding emotional mastery and self-mastery are almost identical to what Buddhism teaches. Most Leo's videos on these topics are basically a pure Buddhism philosophy. And that's great. I'd call it the advanced or the best version of psychology. Key insight of the day - All suffering comes from not accepting the reality as it is Day 8 Was also a hard day for me. I got depressed by uncertainty regarding my life purpose and it led to a lot of negative thinking. Then I had thought that a true self-actualizing individual is unfazed by uncertainty, he embraces it. It helped. Also I got a deep realization that the only thing we ever have\had\will have is the current present moment. We live in that particular present moment. And what we do in that particular moment determines what we become in 3 days\5days\week\month\year\5 years\so on. That motivated me to push really hard with my practice. I also had some insights regarding how should I think about my life purpose. When I was "waving" my awareness through my spinal cord this day I happened to receive a ecstatic, orgasmic-like feeling across all spinal cord. It was continuing for like 2-3 minutes and then passed away. I thought of it as chakra activation. I went to a guru and confronted him with that, I asked "What was that, could it be the kundalini energy awakening or some other shit?" - he told me some generic answer like don't distract yourself with labels, there are all kinds of pleasant sensations, don't get attached to them, everything Is anicha - arising and passing away. I had problems with my tailbone. When I was sitting for too much I experienced pain and discomfort in it. After this experience I feel like 90% less pain and discomfort in this place, almost nothing at all. Very interesting… Day 9 Finally got better, I think days 6-8 were the hardest days besides day 4 because of my sickness Realizing on a deeper level that reality is as it is and that I have the freedom to play the game however I want. Having an insight on leadership - Leadership is about other people reacting to 1 particular person. The less equanimity you have - the more likely you are to become a worshipper, a follower, to follow someone=to react Also got a realization that nearly all authorities try to limit open-mindedness and individuality. They try their best to fit you, to make you like everyone else, to kill your desire to experiment and stand out. Generally they do it for self-preserving purposes but also a lot of times they actually have good intentions. They try to keep you out of danger. In that sense this vipassana retreat is doing it too, probably more out of good intentions. They say that you should be an individual thinker but at the same time they try to sell you an idea that their vision on how to do spirituality and live life is the most optimal. Although they don't push it. This retreat is not a sect, and they do it not in the same rigid manner as government\conventional religion\college\businesses\your typical family does it. They do it very gently and almost unnoticeable . But I still noticed it. I think they are trying to prevent Zen Devils. Got a huge insight\realization on love. The only true love is accepting other person the way he really is, not as we'd like him to be. The only true love is unconditional love. Any other love is just loving your own pictures and images of this person in your head and cannot really be defined as loving the OTHER person. Any other love is purely egoic because you love YOUR own concept of a person. Day 10 On that day the schedule was not as intense and we finally were able to speak with each other and with women too. It was a little bit weird at first to "break the silence" but after a while everyone was socializing. It was very pleasurable to get to know like-minded people In real-life. Most of them were into spirituality and self-development work to various degrees. Most of the people here I'd estimate as stage Green in spiral dynamics with few of them skewing pretty hard to orange. Perhaps there were few stage yellow people but I didn't spot them. Everyone had very different backgrounds and reasons to come to this retreat. Some of people were just ordinary folks having the most ordinary life you could possibly imagine but some of them were really hardcore taking hardcore 30-40 days retreats in monasteries in Thailand and doing psychedelics and all kinds of other things for personal development. It was actually a pretty nice experience to talk about all that crazy shit in real life with someone and these hardcore people were one of the most valuable to talk to. We had a shit load of green talk discussing emotions, relationships, well-being, consciousness, healthy food, healthy drinks, medicine, alternative medicine (this one is very big), different styles of yoga (there were even a couple of yoga teachers), different meditation techniques (I got to know about gong meditation, lol), holotrop shamanic breathing (to my surprise it is super popular in Russia). I spoke with some women here and God it was amazing. I've never seen such open, "present in a moment" and "pure" women in my life. Spiritual women are the best. I think such women are the best girlfriend and marriage material. To be honest right now after seeing all this I don't know if I'll ever want to be in a serious relationship with a woman who is on not on "a path". It was super valuable experience for me as I am trying to embody green right now. The very important thing was that I managed to see the limitations of stage green. Most people here were not so much into action. They just loved to talk about everything and share their emotions and opinions. They mostly don't care about serious spirituality. They do it to feel happy, not to find the existential truth. They also don't care that much about advancing the society and having their own impact in it. I came to see guru for last time and asked him about enlightenment. He gave me some generic answers and said that in order to achieve enlightenment you have " to get rid of all impurities" . In their tradition they value ethics and morality very heavily and they align ethics with a path to enlightenment . You could get the impression that this guru was quite useless but not really, he helped me greatly to grasp Buddhism concepts on a deeper level and see the implications of them in real life. So basically that is it, after 10 days were over we were able to go home. Results\integration: • I feel very surreal. Huge awareness of ego. It is greatly numbed but i still identify with my body and believe in a lot of stuff of what i am capable or not capable of doing • I am completely open to accepting reality, other people and different perspectives completely as they are, I feel like I moved to stage yellow greatly and tapped a bit into turquoise . • My values shifted and now Truth is the 1st priority • Got a direct experience of chakras and "energetic body" • My body awareness increased like 30x from the vipassana technique. Now I am able to send electrical signals throughout my whole body if I want to. Performance in gym greatly increased from that. • I'm 10x more equanimous. I don't care about petty stuff nearly at all, it feels like 99% of petty things can't trigger me (before it was like 70%) • I feel 5-10x more mindful throughout the day and have better ability to "maintain" this mindfulness • My ability to concentrate increased tremendously (10-15x) • My capacity for compassion greatly increased. • I have 0 urge to criticize and judge others. Deep realization that it is all meaningless • My ability to contemplate deep stuff and see connections greatly increased • I have a shit ton of creative ideas on business and life • Deep desire to go implement them • Addiction to social media, phone and useless chatting greatly reduced. Having a lot of awareness on how to work on other addictions\unwanted behaviors (for example certain unconscious eating patterns) • A desire to be mindful\aware as much as possible and as DEEP as possible (to see\notice more stuff on a more profound level) • Developed a big tolerance to physical discomfort\pain P.S. if you decide to go to such a retreat I advice you to work on your meditation posture beforehand, to learn half-lotus or something like that, having poor improper posture makes all of this experience extra painful. Also, don't forget to take some basic medication to not rely on some guru's permission. If you have any questions regarding my experience - feel free to ask them

From what I understand (which grated isn't much), the answer is yeah, kinda. There is no you. So there is no you/spirit, that goes on after you die. You are God/Infinity/The Absolute. You are everything and everyone. And everything that has ever happen and will ever happen, is happening (or more accurately Not happening), all right Now. So you(God) are everyone person, animal, plant, insect, planet, that has ever been, and will ever be. So in a way, that could be seen as reincarnation. Certainly closer than the religions or science, to the Truth.

Over the last months I have sunk deeper into mysticism and awareness. Just recently I had an abstract experience with 5MeoDMT last week where everything I was aware of dissolved into one primordial liquid, a field of endless possibilities and manifestations, it was both scary and majestic. I stumbled upon the Seth material the other day, a woman who learned to channel a trans-dimensional intelligence who she calls "Seth",, I am not yet entirely sure if thats really possible but clearly the lady knows her shit and its been a fascinating read so far. Tho they place a huge emphasis on the idea of reincarnation and a persistent individual soul. The way I see it, our bodies and experiences share within the same soul, the one god that makes up all of reality. For me, to begin to conceptualize the idea of individual souls would bring conflicts of separation from the one source of it all. What are your thoughts?

Jesus says, the day of judgement is coming near and, “There is only one life. Once lost, lost for ever.” That’s why Jesus never used the Indian device of reincarnation. All the three religions born in the west , Jews, Mohammedans, Christians they have never used the Indian device. Jesus knew perfectly well about reincarnation. There are indirect hints spread all over the Gospels. Jesus says, “I am before Abraham ever was.” And he says, “I will be coming back.” Moses and Jesus saw what happened to India through the theory of reincarnation. Because of the theory of reincarnation, India became very lethargic, there is no hurry. India has no time sense, not even now. How can you have time sense when eternity is available? When there are so many lives, why be in such a hurry? One can go on slowly, one is bound to reach some day or other. They decided that it was better to tell people, “There is only one life, this is the last chance, the first and the last, if you miss it, you miss forever.” This is a device to create intense longing, to create such intensity in people that they can be transformed easily.

Everything is possible. Almost everything. Nothing needs to be destroyed. It can be compressed or put to good use and converted. If there is a lack of resources the resources can be increased. Evrything is perfectly flexible --- - - - - %- - + Spirituality will consist of Gut instinct and intuition Emotional growth Emotional stability Mental peace Cultivation of empathy and love Charity Communal harmony Prayer Desires Connection to God Alignment with the universe Letting go Acceptance Wisdom Meditation Soulforce Reincarnation Afterlife Divine energy Healing and balance Equilibrium Forgiveness Brotherhood Support and protection Meaning Purpose Authenticity living an authentic life Energy Will power Karma.. Most people who do good or have noble intentions are naturally protected and are comfortable with and provided for in their lives. Others who are evil tend to live in in the most disgusting conditions. Stages in spirituality 1..You will start hating the world or see everything as pointless or dysfunctional and delusional 2..You will see all the illusions created around you. 3..You will be less selfish and your prayers will be for sincere reasons. 4....You might be depressed but even in hopelessness or despair you will either be peaceful or hopeful and positive. 5...You will experience a strange kind of peace. 6..You will have a more open and bigger heart and you will be be able to accept suffering more openly without conflict. 7...Love and empathy will appear to be the most important element of existence. 8..Everything will have the perspective of love. 9..You might begin to dislike people and their behavior will appear as very selfish and immature and as a result you will dissociate and detach yourself from people and become a loner. You will begin to embrace solitude more than before. 10.....All creatures will appear equal and equally important. 11....Life will seem like a transient flow of the human breath and you will no longer be afraid of death because death will appear like a beginning of a new journey into the afterlife. 12.....Life might seem pointless 13....There can be nihilistic tendencies. 14...Death will not appear as something miserable or saddening but rather peaceful and as a cessation of suffering or a way to put oneself out of one's miseries. 15....You will be less racist and more accepting of other cultures, races and differences. You will be less prejudiced or biased. You will be less judgemental. 16....It helps you to love yourself better. In a devoted kind of way.. Not in a Narcissistic way. If you're struggling with self destructive behavior, it helps to feel more connected to your body and mind and you begin to radiate love and that love reaches to your own body and mind as well, in a way your own love that emerges from you nourishes you. It really heals self pity and self destructive tendencies 17......You begin to respect yourself and your body much more. 18....It helps heal neurotic tendencies and mental illnesses. 19...You will be less miserable and sadistic You will be empathetic to other's suffering. 20...You will want happiness abundance and prosperity. 21.. You will try to minimize problems and chaos. 22...You will understand the spiritual side and the physical nature of things. 23....You will have a better sense of intuition and inner connection. 24...You will more connected to your inner spirit. 25...You will feel liberated. 26..You will have more compassion. 27....Your will be strong and you will bravely face difficulties and problems 28...You will be more forgiving and you will see mankind as stupid and foolish. 29....You will be wiser with your choices. 30....You will value principles over materialism, gains and benefits. - - - - - - - - - + + Focus Spirituality and health and less on emotions.

You’re an illusion, which is actuality infinite nothing. Ego’s don’t like this, so they create thoughts like spirits, reincarnation, gurus, religions, etc. Ego strives to hold on to that falsity of separation at ALL costs. Without ego this is obvious, and hilarious. ❤️

The enlighten individual has gone beyond reality, he has reached the potential of a human being and probably does not need reincarnation. But who knows the secret of death, where we will get catapulted after death. Maybe we just have to wait and see for ourselves, as we shall. I can imagine the immense shock of realizing that there was no death, and here I am.

@Mikael89 I may have been unclear. I'm not saying consciousness can be annihilated. I'm not even saying phenomena can be annihilated, just that to the enlightened it wouldn't make any difference if it was. If you're so indifferent to the world that you couldn't care less whether all phenomena disappears tomorrow or continues, what difference does it make whether it does or it doesn't? So it is annihilation. Re reincarnation, my mind has long been open to that concept (it makes sense), but I don't believe dogmas without evidence and certainly wouldn't bet the governing strategy of my entire life on it. In any case, it's beside the point, we're not considering actually committing suicide, we're using it as a thought experiment. Think of a time when you didn't know about enlightenment or believe in reincarnation. Someone says 'Life sucks. Why don't you kill yourself? Then you'll know what happens when you die'. Would you have done it? It's the same question. Re 'life is bullshit', perhaps this summarises our differences and reinforces my point about the reasons anyone would want to be enlightened. I don't think life's bullshit. .................................................................................................................................................................................................... I won't have internet access for a few days now so I'm going to wrap up my part in this discussion. I know I've been provocative, and I'm sorry if I've ruffled anyone's feathers, but I stand by my tiny effort to balance a discourse that too easily leads to unrealistic expectations and a careless 'of course enlightenment' perspective. Views some have expressed here such as 'there are no cons to enlightenment' reinforce my theory that many seekers don't know what they're asking for, and are expecting a big pay off that isn't going to happen. 'There are no pros or cons to anything' might make more sense, but could you say it and mean it? I used to think enlightenment was a no-brainer, too, but you know what - there is absolutely no obvious answer to whether it's a worthwhile pursuit. From the perspective of the human being, of course it isn't. From the perspective of God, nothing's worthwhile, who cares? For my part I will be probably be contemplating this for a while before deciding whether I return to seeking or not. Special thanks to @Solace @Emerald @Victor Mgazi for the food-for-thought.

Hey, ya'll, I need your help! I want to create a comprehensive list of video examples of prototypical stage Turquoise thinking. This is meant to be an educational tool for people learning about Spiral Dynamics. So towards that end, scour Youtube and find all the videos you can which exhibit stage Turquoise thinking. Try to find videos which are short and sweet. The more diversity we can display here, the better. Try to find examples from various cultures. We will create a mega-thread like this for every stage in the Spiral, from Red to Turquoise. But here, let's just focus on Turquoise. Each week I will start a new mega-thread topic for the next stage. Do not start a political debate in this thread! It is not our goal here to defend our personal political positions or to judge any stage, but simply to compile examples. Thanks for your help! I'm excited to see what kind of juicy stuff you dig up. Try to be selective with your choices. This can turn into a really cool list. Stage Turquoise Values: Consciousness Elevating mankind’s consciousness Truth Deep metaphysical insight Wisdom, the wisdom of nature Mysticism, spirituality, nonduality God, divinity Holism, integration, synthesis vs analysis Integrating all religions & science Left & right brain synthesis Honesty, transparency, authenticity Being vs knowing, doing, having Simplicity, flowing with nature Minimalist sustainable living Collaborative synergy Human wellness Healing at all levels: physical, emotional, spiritual Exploring altered states of consciousness Intuition Channeling: direct downloads from infinite intelligence Supernatural creativity Spiritual purification Awakening, transcendence, liberation Unconditional love, compassion for all Emotional mastery Presence, mindfulness Paradox Esoteric teachings Gratitude Unity Deeper & deeper levels of interconnectedness Selfless living Sacrifice self for greater consciousness Meditation, yoga, contemplation, self-inquiry Not-knowing Humility Spontaneity, playfulness, self-amusement The really big picture Stage Turquoise Examples: Sadhguru, Shunyamurti, Thomas Campbell, Yoda, David Hawkins, Ken Wilber, Shinzen Young, Deepak Chopra, Stan Grof, Osho, Mooji, Ramaji, Rupert Spira, Eckhart Tolle’s A New Earth, Yogananda, Martin Ball, Terence McKenna, Carl Jung, Sri Aurobindo, Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, Ervin Laszlo, David Loy, Alan Watts, Wim Hof, Matt Kahn, Dalai Lama, Sasha Shulgin, yoga, holotropic breathwork, The Holographic Universe, Akashic Records, noosphere, opening the 3rd eye, pineal gland, out of body experiences, samadhi experiences, siddhis, paranormal abilities, clairvoyants, channels, mediums, Bashar, Aleister Crowley, Rudolf Steiner, alternative healing systems, Maya, psychedelics, 5-MeO-DMT, StarTrek: The Q, Rupert Sheldrake’s morphogenetic fields, Dean Radin’s paranormal research, Gandhi’s ideas of pluralistic harmony, Gaia, biocentrism, Monroe Institute, Esalen Institute, transpersonal psychology, Jung’s collective unconscious, quantum field theory, sacred geometry, reincarnation, opening chakras, saints, sages, mystics, prophets, etc.

You'll just be catapulted into a new life anyway. Reincarnation man. And in this new life you might not be aware of actualized.org and that suicide is really not that much of a problem. Better work a bit on your (illusory) karma while you have the chance.

In this essay, I will try my best to use the language of logic to indicate the significance of the illogical for those who are too attached to logic, yet I will also argue against the illogical for those who are too attached to the dimension of the heart. Then, I'm trying to create a holistic perspective in which both are integrated, but neither one of them has become an attachment. This will have its limitations, because the first "illogicality" I was talking about was in a certain sense still logical. That illogicality can still be logically pointed out why it is functional. So there's a certain rationality towards that dimension of being irrational. However, there is a certain point where no matter how strong your logic is, a leap will have to be taken into trust. Trust, genuine trust (not faith or belief), requires you to take a jump into the absurd, the unexplainable, the unknowable: not having the capacity to be understood by the mind. This I call the truest form of absurdity, of illogicality. It's difficult to argue why this has so much significance to take this jump; you will have to experience it, that's the only way. However, there are still some pointers I can provide, some perspectives that can be utilized. But obviously, only the direct experience can free you and truly make you understand it, and not a intellectual agreement of it, though this can be the first step. Firstly, let's discuss the matter of why atheism/rationalism, and its loyal brother called "science", is an act of limiting yourself and ultimately an ego strategy for keeping you stuck. Often times, people ask for "evidence" when a certain statement is made within the realm of religiousity or spirituality, or even just general self-development. The problem is, that such a thing cannot be proven as an absolute truth by its very nature, because everybody is different. Science is good for the development of new technologies and the discoveries of universal truths, such as the realm of physics and mathemathics. However, as far as the matter of humanity is concerned, things really start becoming much more complex. The realm of spirituality, religion and even psychology are cluttered with paradoxes and opposites. What is poison for one person, can be the cure for the other one. It all depends on the makeup of someone's system: one's heart, one's beliefs, one's conditioning, one's personality and so forth... For this reason, how can science and psychology provide any evidence for a technique that would work for all? Impossible! We are all unique individuals, and there is no absolute truth that works for everyone all the time. At least, as far as the conventional perspective is concerned. From the perspective of the absolute, of the all, then perhaps there are truths that work for everyone. Let me give you an example. Take the statement: Love frees you from suffering. Is this true? I would definitely say so. However, what happens when people start taking this statement very seriously? Then people start to act loving, to pretend they are loving, to believe they are loving, when in reality they carry a lot of judgement, resentment, hatred and so forth within them. In reality, the action that is required for them could be to become very assertive, dismiss people out of their lives, start saying "NO!", become angry at someone and defend themselves from hurt that others can inflict upon them. It's not to say that THAT is the absolute truth either for happiness and peace, but it is the relative truth that at that moment works for them, because that is a part they need to develop at that point. True love is only possible when you know how to defend and assert yourself. True love also doesn't mean to always be soft, kind and gentle towards people. Sometimes it is necessary to be harsh and to deliver uncomfortable truths to people directly. Again, relative truths that they need to embody at that stage of their development. Do you see the limitations of science here in the fields of psychological development? Humans are incredibly complex, and a particular advice can be poison for one person and medicine for the other. It all depends what part of them they need to develop at that particular stage in their evolution. Sometimes masculine values have to practiced, and sometimes feminine values. What I just argued for wasn't necessarily against atheistic viewpoints so much; It didn't do much to disprove the notion of a purely materialistic and accidental reality, as atheists believe, but my feeling is that many rationalists turn towards science to explain for them how to live, and my argumentation was to support the dismissal of this notion. Then, if we understand the complexity of our psychology, and we realize that there are no absolute truths and therefore techniques or methods we can eternally hold onto, we may start to realize that our intellectual systems will eventually be limiting towards progressing further in our evolution. Then, we may start looking for a different center from which to make decisions from. This is where the heart comes into play: The world of feelings and emotions. However, what usually (if not always) happens is that instead of understanding that an integration between heart and mind needs to take place, which allows the intuition of the soul to truly open up, we start instead becoming identified with our feelings and we dismiss the cold rationality of the mind. It's not that the mind now has completely disappeared, but that it now utilizes the heart for its beliefs and decisions. It's not that at this point that the identification with the mind has been transcended, but that the mind now simply doesn't purely function from itself only. Feelings now have a great significance, and certainly they do have a great existential importance, but the irony is that the mind starts dismissing its own analytical processes; at least on the surface level. In reality, the mind is still running the entire business, but the underlying belief one is now attached to is: "I should go by what feels right". One does now realize the importance of connection, love, communion, empathy and so forth, but fails to understand that the mind has to be used in this physical reality. Mind has its purpose, and needs to be used consciously, instead of being dismissed. If we fail to integrate our heart and mind, we then start becoming too "weak". We become too floaty, too undriven, too undisciplined. We start dismissing rational, logical decisions which would've helped us further or prevented us from getting in trouble because "It doesn't feel right" Ultimately, this will backfire on us. This is the hypocrisy that —often cold-hearted— rational people such as atheists can see in people who are too identified with their emotions and feelings, as we are experts in pointing out the flaws of our polar opposites, but fail to see the dysfunctionality within ourselves. So naturally, scientists, atheists, rationalists, and all the types of people who are functioning almost purely from their mind and logical systems, feel a great resistance towards the people who get so caught up in their emotions and feelings, as they can see that they get nothing done, that they lack a "down-to-earth" approach, that they are too much floating around in the skies, that they lack self-control and discipline. And certainly, there is a certain truth to this. However, if we dismiss our subjective reality entirely, then we set ourselves up for a great amount of suffering. Then we keep in our emotions, then we start to feel disconnected from existence and other human beings, then we repress our desires if they don't correlate to our rationalist perspective, then we start becoming overwhelmed by stress and anxiety... You may become very succesful in the material world, but you'll realize it's all hollow and you're still the same unhappy person as you were before. In fact, you are unhappier now because you now got what you thought you needed to be happy, but you're still not happy. Now, hope also starts slipping out of your hands. The only way out of this is to start realizing the significance of your subjective reality; You start honouring your feelings, your emotions. You allow yourself to cry or to express joy and laughter in a very frivolous, free-flowing manner. This can be a great relief to your system, and you start to realize the significance of feelings and emotions. However, as I have already explained, the mind tends to swing to the polar opposite. At first we may have honored our rationalism to a great degree, but as we started seeing the pain of our lack of emotional awareness, we now tend to become very antagonistic towards what we first considered to be so valuable. Somehow, we often start to forget all the hypocrisy we saw in people who became very identified with their emotions and feelings. I have already explained what this can result in. Let's get into the next phase. There comes a point when we start once again see the limitations of this identification with all these feelings and the dismissal of the mind, as we were able to when we were still rationalists. However, if we've lived through this phase of feeling-identification, we now start to realize that both heart and mind has a certain significance. This is the door to wisdom. We start to understand that both the language of the heart and the mind has a certain significance. What we don't immediately understand however, is how to proprely integrate both of them. We now start to try to philosophize and figure out logical systems in which we can somehow apply a technique, a strategy, a method as on how to integrate them. We think and think, and the more we go into the many perspectives on what ground or logic we can make our decisions on, the more we start to realize that there is always an opposite perspective to whatever standpoint we take. We use logic —the mind— to try and integrate mind and heart, but again and again we fail to truly understand how to find this balance, because if we really go deeply into it, we always realize that an opposing argument is just around the corner for whatever standpoint we try to take. This can lead to greats amount of confusion, because we don't know what is left and right anymore, what's up and above, what will help us and what will hinder us, what is forward and what is backward... Life can start becoming really difficult and, as was my personal experience, you can come to a point where you become so confused that it paralyzes you to the point where all you do is lay in bed all day, just thinking —even though you're physically perfectly health— and the confusion and thoughts become so crippling that you lose the motivation to do anything at all, except for perhaps supplying the needs for your physical survival. This is the dark night of doubt and confusion, which I personally probably went into more extremely than 99% of people ever will, granted people will reach this stage in their life in the first place. It got me to the point where I started considering and attempting suicide. And it was not merely because I wanted the pain to stop (as I was very open to the idea of reincarnation, this seemed rather futile anyways), but because all other ideas had failed for me, I now had the idea that perhaps if I push the pain to so far that it reaches a certain limit, then perhaps it will somehow instantly transform me, or at least reverse the direction that my life seemed to be heading in. I'm talking about the pain you experience when you're on the edge of death, but haven't made the last step into it yet. So it wasn't really about actually ending it, but pushing the pain to such an extreme so that perhaps something would crack in me and I would have some sort of transformation. It was a last-resort solution, no other idea seemed to work for me anymore. Eventually, I started to realize that this wasn't going to work out for me either. Either it was going to be actual suicide, or a complete change in attitude. Even though I had very strong doubts and fears that it would actually work, there was just one thing I could think of. And that was this: I simply had to make decisions, not knowing whether they were right or wrong, not knowing whether they were helpful or hindering, not knowing whether it was going to make things better or worse, but making decisions for the sake of learning to make decisions, and committing to them (for that moment), as much as I can. It was completely stepping into the complete unknown, having all my intuitive capacities of feeling what I should be doing overshadowed by doubts and fears, and despite all of that still making decisions, and somehow, for no logical explanation at all, still trusting myself and existence in spite of all the worries, that I was heading in the right direction. This is the trust I want to talk about. This is the trust I can not —despite all my clever philosophical capacities— make an argument for as to why to go with it. Except for that it works. Where one who is identified with feelings only may call his/her decisions based on trust, it is still based on faith and identifying with a mental position, namely: "I should go with what feels right". It seems like you're trying to go with your intuition, but in fact, you're not. You're going with a mental position, where your heart simply facilitates your head. Or perhaps I should say: you're going with feeling-intuition, but not with being-intuition. Being-intuition seems in some ways similair to feeling-intiution, but in fact it is radically different. This is the type of intuition that I can not explain or argue in favour for to any rationalist. With feeling-intuition, I can still show the rationalist the significance of feelings and emotional expression as to unburden himself. With being-intuition, my hands are tied. It is a mystery as to what it is. Sometimes it tells you to go with "what feels right", thus implying heart. Sometimes it tells you to go with "what needs to be done", thus implying mind. And sometimes it is somewhere in between. But of course, it doesn't take up a mental position. It simply decides. And you trust it. How can you trust it? How do you know it won't deceive you? Well, there's no way to argue it away, but you simply trust it. It is letting the unknown function through you, and the only indication that this is the right thing to do is the sense of tranquility and peace you get from going along with it, which doesn't mean it stays away from discipline and things you really don't feel like doing. Often times, I don't really even know if I'm listening to my being-intuition or if i'm getting identified with either a mental or emotional (feeling-intuition) position. I'm not so acquianted with it just yet. I've only started to become somewhat acquainted with turquoise for less than a year now [reference to spiral dynamics model]. To differentiate being-intuition from and identification with an idea or feeling is very difficult to notice, very subtle. Most characteristic about it, I would say, is that the element of confusion or hesitation has started disappearing from it. Not that you know for sure this is the right decision, at least intellectually, but there's is no need to be sure anymore. You start to understand that the problem all along was not the decisions you were making, but the division within yourself you were creating when you were making your decisions. One part of you said you should do A, another part said you should do B. Perhaps you were identified with the position of A, but still your unconscious desired for B (or vica versa), so you were in conflict. Perhaps you were genuine enough to see both the validity of A and B, but were unsure as to what to choose, thus still in conflict. Now, with this being-intuition, the decision you make is not important anymore. You can choose A, and that's fine. You can choose B, and that's fine. Perhaps you can even choose AB, and that's also fine. Or perhaps today you choose A, and tomorrow you choose B, and eitherway it is still fine. Now, you start to become truly flexible: being able to switch between a feminine, passive modality to a masculine, active modality very quickly, for whatever the situation requires. You realize that none of this really matters, as long as there is not conflict within you making decisions. Finally, you really start to realize there's no need to worry at all, because you've come to the absolute realization of your own ignorance, so why be worried? You don't know anyways. You can't know! All this worry and striving and contemplating and pondering and disciplining and attempting to accept, trying to not try... All of that was just a complete joke! And you don't even renounce striving, or contemplating or anything like that. If it's a joke, then why avoid it? Jokes are to be played around with. If you start fighting with a joke, it won't be a joke anymore. In realizing all of this, true spirituality and peace starts to become available to you. Finally, you're approaching the promised land, which in reality was never anywhere else but here to begin with. But... Don't take what I say as a philosophy. You have to apply the specific lessons that are relevant for you right now. Your situation is different than mine. Be genuine with yourself, and see what the specific lesson is that you need to learn right now. Don't try to avoid it, even if it is very painful. The only way to peace is to go through the pain of facing yourself, facing your demons. There is no other way. Avoidance is simply delay. What's the point in delay?

@George Fil literal reincarnation. But really I'm just blabbering.

It is apparent that reincarnation exists from the perspective of the mind. At a higher level, one can see and identify with every living thing from the present, past and future.

Hey All, Again, this is not my personal experience but rather intellectual understanding based on my reading of trip reports and Leo's/Other Guru's videos. Here it is. Leo has been reincarnated. Leo and all those who have had "breakthroughs" on DMT/SHROOM/LSD etc trips. How so? Leo, as well as other people's trip reports I have read say this: "I died." That is how they see the truth. upon their death. Call it ego-death or whatever, but as Leo has said this many times - ego-death vs our normal definition of physical death, are really the same thing. Ego-Death isn't anything less than the "REAL-Physical" death of a person. Now where is the "reincarnation"? Many trip reports I have read, people say that they spent an eternity in that state of one-ness, of eternal bliss or whatnot etc before "returning" back to their bodies. Now people say this also, that when we are born, we "choose" to incarnate in a certain body, knowing all well what we intend to do in that lifetime of the person we are being born as. So what we can say is this, when people who just take these substances have a breakthrough experience where they have an ego-death - they then "choose" to come back to this reality. They come back fresh from having downloaded all those insights in their heads. All the questions answered. and with that knowledge etched in their subconsious, they are usually in that bliss-full state for the 1st few days / weeks after that breakthrough trip. Slowly they integrate back to the earthly life (those who are not on the spirtual path more quickly than the one who has taken the subtance knowing about this) so basically, their previous self before the trip is literally dead. They come back as the "new" version/life of themselves. and this is no different than reincarnation. unsure what mechanism is upon physical-death where the body dies and there isn't anything to return back to... then you maybe "choose" or incarnate near the timeline of ur death... except when we incarte after physical-death, this is done in baby-infant form. where all those insights that we know of, and even the memory of that place, is all lost. even in a fully grown adult state, the experince is barely recalled and whatever is recalled is also said to be a mere pointer and not even 1% of what was witnessed. i feel like this maybe all over the place but yeah, my insight about this is in here somewhere i hope

After awakening, it is a complete shift in everything in one's being. One can see all the past and all the ancestors, one can identify with every living and not living things. From a point of view of the ego, one sees reincarnation. From higher perspectives, there is no reincarnation. Because you never lived before so to speak, in this configuration of body/mind. Others different, unique, bodies/minds existed before you. We all identify with the source, only a few are conscious of the source. People can conceptualize enlightenment as much as they want and claim they are everything, I speak from a perspective of practice and experience, that is a totally different point of view, and I don't hope to be understood, is more, I really don't care what others have to say about me, eventually some with get what I say after they awaken