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From what I understand (which grated isn't much), the answer is yeah, kinda. There is no you. So there is no you/spirit, that goes on after you die. You are God/Infinity/The Absolute. You are everything and everyone. And everything that has ever happen and will ever happen, is happening (or more accurately Not happening), all right Now. So you(God) are everyone person, animal, plant, insect, planet, that has ever been, and will ever be. So in a way, that could be seen as reincarnation. Certainly closer than the religions or science, to the Truth.

Over the last months I have sunk deeper into mysticism and awareness. Just recently I had an abstract experience with 5MeoDMT last week where everything I was aware of dissolved into one primordial liquid, a field of endless possibilities and manifestations, it was both scary and majestic. I stumbled upon the Seth material the other day, a woman who learned to channel a trans-dimensional intelligence who she calls "Seth",, I am not yet entirely sure if thats really possible but clearly the lady knows her shit and its been a fascinating read so far. Tho they place a huge emphasis on the idea of reincarnation and a persistent individual soul. The way I see it, our bodies and experiences share within the same soul, the one god that makes up all of reality. For me, to begin to conceptualize the idea of individual souls would bring conflicts of separation from the one source of it all. What are your thoughts?

Jesus says, the day of judgement is coming near and, “There is only one life. Once lost, lost for ever.” That’s why Jesus never used the Indian device of reincarnation. All the three religions born in the west , Jews, Mohammedans, Christians they have never used the Indian device. Jesus knew perfectly well about reincarnation. There are indirect hints spread all over the Gospels. Jesus says, “I am before Abraham ever was.” And he says, “I will be coming back.” Moses and Jesus saw what happened to India through the theory of reincarnation. Because of the theory of reincarnation, India became very lethargic, there is no hurry. India has no time sense, not even now. How can you have time sense when eternity is available? When there are so many lives, why be in such a hurry? One can go on slowly, one is bound to reach some day or other. They decided that it was better to tell people, “There is only one life, this is the last chance, the first and the last, if you miss it, you miss forever.” This is a device to create intense longing, to create such intensity in people that they can be transformed easily.

Everything is possible. Almost everything. Nothing needs to be destroyed. It can be compressed or put to good use and converted. If there is a lack of resources the resources can be increased. Evrything is perfectly flexible --- - - - - %- - + Spirituality will consist of Gut instinct and intuition Emotional growth Emotional stability Mental peace Cultivation of empathy and love Charity Communal harmony Prayer Desires Connection to God Alignment with the universe Letting go Acceptance Wisdom Meditation Soulforce Reincarnation Afterlife Divine energy Healing and balance Equilibrium Forgiveness Brotherhood Support and protection Meaning Purpose Authenticity living an authentic life Energy Will power Karma.. Most people who do good or have noble intentions are naturally protected and are comfortable with and provided for in their lives. Others who are evil tend to live in in the most disgusting conditions. Stages in spirituality 1..You will start hating the world or see everything as pointless or dysfunctional and delusional 2..You will see all the illusions created around you. 3..You will be less selfish and your prayers will be for sincere reasons. 4....You might be depressed but even in hopelessness or despair you will either be peaceful or hopeful and positive. 5...You will experience a strange kind of peace. 6..You will have a more open and bigger heart and you will be be able to accept suffering more openly without conflict. 7...Love and empathy will appear to be the most important element of existence. 8..Everything will have the perspective of love. 9..You might begin to dislike people and their behavior will appear as very selfish and immature and as a result you will dissociate and detach yourself from people and become a loner. You will begin to embrace solitude more than before. 10.....All creatures will appear equal and equally important. 11....Life will seem like a transient flow of the human breath and you will no longer be afraid of death because death will appear like a beginning of a new journey into the afterlife. 12.....Life might seem pointless 13....There can be nihilistic tendencies. 14...Death will not appear as something miserable or saddening but rather peaceful and as a cessation of suffering or a way to put oneself out of one's miseries. 15....You will be less racist and more accepting of other cultures, races and differences. You will be less prejudiced or biased. You will be less judgemental. 16....It helps you to love yourself better. In a devoted kind of way.. Not in a Narcissistic way. If you're struggling with self destructive behavior, it helps to feel more connected to your body and mind and you begin to radiate love and that love reaches to your own body and mind as well, in a way your own love that emerges from you nourishes you. It really heals self pity and self destructive tendencies 17......You begin to respect yourself and your body much more. 18....It helps heal neurotic tendencies and mental illnesses. 19...You will be less miserable and sadistic You will be empathetic to other's suffering. 20...You will want happiness abundance and prosperity. 21.. You will try to minimize problems and chaos. 22...You will understand the spiritual side and the physical nature of things. 23....You will have a better sense of intuition and inner connection. 24...You will more connected to your inner spirit. 25...You will feel liberated. 26..You will have more compassion. 27....Your will be strong and you will bravely face difficulties and problems 28...You will be more forgiving and you will see mankind as stupid and foolish. 29....You will be wiser with your choices. 30....You will value principles over materialism, gains and benefits. - - - - - - - - - + + Focus Spirituality and health and less on emotions.

You’re an illusion, which is actuality infinite nothing. Ego’s don’t like this, so they create thoughts like spirits, reincarnation, gurus, religions, etc. Ego strives to hold on to that falsity of separation at ALL costs. Without ego this is obvious, and hilarious. ❤️

The enlighten individual has gone beyond reality, he has reached the potential of a human being and probably does not need reincarnation. But who knows the secret of death, where we will get catapulted after death. Maybe we just have to wait and see for ourselves, as we shall. I can imagine the immense shock of realizing that there was no death, and here I am.

@Mikael89 I may have been unclear. I'm not saying consciousness can be annihilated. I'm not even saying phenomena can be annihilated, just that to the enlightened it wouldn't make any difference if it was. If you're so indifferent to the world that you couldn't care less whether all phenomena disappears tomorrow or continues, what difference does it make whether it does or it doesn't? So it is annihilation. Re reincarnation, my mind has long been open to that concept (it makes sense), but I don't believe dogmas without evidence and certainly wouldn't bet the governing strategy of my entire life on it. In any case, it's beside the point, we're not considering actually committing suicide, we're using it as a thought experiment. Think of a time when you didn't know about enlightenment or believe in reincarnation. Someone says 'Life sucks. Why don't you kill yourself? Then you'll know what happens when you die'. Would you have done it? It's the same question. Re 'life is bullshit', perhaps this summarises our differences and reinforces my point about the reasons anyone would want to be enlightened. I don't think life's bullshit. .................................................................................................................................................................................................... I won't have internet access for a few days now so I'm going to wrap up my part in this discussion. I know I've been provocative, and I'm sorry if I've ruffled anyone's feathers, but I stand by my tiny effort to balance a discourse that too easily leads to unrealistic expectations and a careless 'of course enlightenment' perspective. Views some have expressed here such as 'there are no cons to enlightenment' reinforce my theory that many seekers don't know what they're asking for, and are expecting a big pay off that isn't going to happen. 'There are no pros or cons to anything' might make more sense, but could you say it and mean it? I used to think enlightenment was a no-brainer, too, but you know what - there is absolutely no obvious answer to whether it's a worthwhile pursuit. From the perspective of the human being, of course it isn't. From the perspective of God, nothing's worthwhile, who cares? For my part I will be probably be contemplating this for a while before deciding whether I return to seeking or not. Special thanks to @Solace @Emerald @Victor Mgazi for the food-for-thought.

Hey, ya'll, I need your help! I want to create a comprehensive list of video examples of prototypical stage Turquoise thinking. This is meant to be an educational tool for people learning about Spiral Dynamics. So towards that end, scour Youtube and find all the videos you can which exhibit stage Turquoise thinking. Try to find videos which are short and sweet. The more diversity we can display here, the better. Try to find examples from various cultures. We will create a mega-thread like this for every stage in the Spiral, from Red to Turquoise. But here, let's just focus on Turquoise. Each week I will start a new mega-thread topic for the next stage. Do not start a political debate in this thread! It is not our goal here to defend our personal political positions or to judge any stage, but simply to compile examples. Thanks for your help! I'm excited to see what kind of juicy stuff you dig up. Try to be selective with your choices. This can turn into a really cool list. Stage Turquoise Values: Consciousness Elevating mankind’s consciousness Truth Deep metaphysical insight Wisdom, the wisdom of nature Mysticism, spirituality, nonduality God, divinity Holism, integration, synthesis vs analysis Integrating all religions & science Left & right brain synthesis Honesty, transparency, authenticity Being vs knowing, doing, having Simplicity, flowing with nature Minimalist sustainable living Collaborative synergy Human wellness Healing at all levels: physical, emotional, spiritual Exploring altered states of consciousness Intuition Channeling: direct downloads from infinite intelligence Supernatural creativity Spiritual purification Awakening, transcendence, liberation Unconditional love, compassion for all Emotional mastery Presence, mindfulness Paradox Esoteric teachings Gratitude Unity Deeper & deeper levels of interconnectedness Selfless living Sacrifice self for greater consciousness Meditation, yoga, contemplation, self-inquiry Not-knowing Humility Spontaneity, playfulness, self-amusement The really big picture Stage Turquoise Examples: Sadhguru, Shunyamurti, Thomas Campbell, Yoda, David Hawkins, Ken Wilber, Shinzen Young, Deepak Chopra, Stan Grof, Osho, Mooji, Ramaji, Rupert Spira, Eckhart Tolle’s A New Earth, Yogananda, Martin Ball, Terence McKenna, Carl Jung, Sri Aurobindo, Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, Ervin Laszlo, David Loy, Alan Watts, Wim Hof, Matt Kahn, Dalai Lama, Sasha Shulgin, yoga, holotropic breathwork, The Holographic Universe, Akashic Records, noosphere, opening the 3rd eye, pineal gland, out of body experiences, samadhi experiences, siddhis, paranormal abilities, clairvoyants, channels, mediums, Bashar, Aleister Crowley, Rudolf Steiner, alternative healing systems, Maya, psychedelics, 5-MeO-DMT, StarTrek: The Q, Rupert Sheldrake’s morphogenetic fields, Dean Radin’s paranormal research, Gandhi’s ideas of pluralistic harmony, Gaia, biocentrism, Monroe Institute, Esalen Institute, transpersonal psychology, Jung’s collective unconscious, quantum field theory, sacred geometry, reincarnation, opening chakras, saints, sages, mystics, prophets, etc.

You'll just be catapulted into a new life anyway. Reincarnation man. And in this new life you might not be aware of actualized.org and that suicide is really not that much of a problem. Better work a bit on your (illusory) karma while you have the chance.

In this essay, I will try my best to use the language of logic to indicate the significance of the illogical for those who are too attached to logic, yet I will also argue against the illogical for those who are too attached to the dimension of the heart. Then, I'm trying to create a holistic perspective in which both are integrated, but neither one of them has become an attachment. This will have its limitations, because the first "illogicality" I was talking about was in a certain sense still logical. That illogicality can still be logically pointed out why it is functional. So there's a certain rationality towards that dimension of being irrational. However, there is a certain point where no matter how strong your logic is, a leap will have to be taken into trust. Trust, genuine trust (not faith or belief), requires you to take a jump into the absurd, the unexplainable, the unknowable: not having the capacity to be understood by the mind. This I call the truest form of absurdity, of illogicality. It's difficult to argue why this has so much significance to take this jump; you will have to experience it, that's the only way. However, there are still some pointers I can provide, some perspectives that can be utilized. But obviously, only the direct experience can free you and truly make you understand it, and not a intellectual agreement of it, though this can be the first step. Firstly, let's discuss the matter of why atheism/rationalism, and its loyal brother called "science", is an act of limiting yourself and ultimately an ego strategy for keeping you stuck. Often times, people ask for "evidence" when a certain statement is made within the realm of religiousity or spirituality, or even just general self-development. The problem is, that such a thing cannot be proven as an absolute truth by its very nature, because everybody is different. Science is good for the development of new technologies and the discoveries of universal truths, such as the realm of physics and mathemathics. However, as far as the matter of humanity is concerned, things really start becoming much more complex. The realm of spirituality, religion and even psychology are cluttered with paradoxes and opposites. What is poison for one person, can be the cure for the other one. It all depends on the makeup of someone's system: one's heart, one's beliefs, one's conditioning, one's personality and so forth... For this reason, how can science and psychology provide any evidence for a technique that would work for all? Impossible! We are all unique individuals, and there is no absolute truth that works for everyone all the time. At least, as far as the conventional perspective is concerned. From the perspective of the absolute, of the all, then perhaps there are truths that work for everyone. Let me give you an example. Take the statement: Love frees you from suffering. Is this true? I would definitely say so. However, what happens when people start taking this statement very seriously? Then people start to act loving, to pretend they are loving, to believe they are loving, when in reality they carry a lot of judgement, resentment, hatred and so forth within them. In reality, the action that is required for them could be to become very assertive, dismiss people out of their lives, start saying "NO!", become angry at someone and defend themselves from hurt that others can inflict upon them. It's not to say that THAT is the absolute truth either for happiness and peace, but it is the relative truth that at that moment works for them, because that is a part they need to develop at that point. True love is only possible when you know how to defend and assert yourself. True love also doesn't mean to always be soft, kind and gentle towards people. Sometimes it is necessary to be harsh and to deliver uncomfortable truths to people directly. Again, relative truths that they need to embody at that stage of their development. Do you see the limitations of science here in the fields of psychological development? Humans are incredibly complex, and a particular advice can be poison for one person and medicine for the other. It all depends what part of them they need to develop at that particular stage in their evolution. Sometimes masculine values have to practiced, and sometimes feminine values. What I just argued for wasn't necessarily against atheistic viewpoints so much; It didn't do much to disprove the notion of a purely materialistic and accidental reality, as atheists believe, but my feeling is that many rationalists turn towards science to explain for them how to live, and my argumentation was to support the dismissal of this notion. Then, if we understand the complexity of our psychology, and we realize that there are no absolute truths and therefore techniques or methods we can eternally hold onto, we may start to realize that our intellectual systems will eventually be limiting towards progressing further in our evolution. Then, we may start looking for a different center from which to make decisions from. This is where the heart comes into play: The world of feelings and emotions. However, what usually (if not always) happens is that instead of understanding that an integration between heart and mind needs to take place, which allows the intuition of the soul to truly open up, we start instead becoming identified with our feelings and we dismiss the cold rationality of the mind. It's not that the mind now has completely disappeared, but that it now utilizes the heart for its beliefs and decisions. It's not that at this point that the identification with the mind has been transcended, but that the mind now simply doesn't purely function from itself only. Feelings now have a great significance, and certainly they do have a great existential importance, but the irony is that the mind starts dismissing its own analytical processes; at least on the surface level. In reality, the mind is still running the entire business, but the underlying belief one is now attached to is: "I should go by what feels right". One does now realize the importance of connection, love, communion, empathy and so forth, but fails to understand that the mind has to be used in this physical reality. Mind has its purpose, and needs to be used consciously, instead of being dismissed. If we fail to integrate our heart and mind, we then start becoming too "weak". We become too floaty, too undriven, too undisciplined. We start dismissing rational, logical decisions which would've helped us further or prevented us from getting in trouble because "It doesn't feel right" Ultimately, this will backfire on us. This is the hypocrisy that —often cold-hearted— rational people such as atheists can see in people who are too identified with their emotions and feelings, as we are experts in pointing out the flaws of our polar opposites, but fail to see the dysfunctionality within ourselves. So naturally, scientists, atheists, rationalists, and all the types of people who are functioning almost purely from their mind and logical systems, feel a great resistance towards the people who get so caught up in their emotions and feelings, as they can see that they get nothing done, that they lack a "down-to-earth" approach, that they are too much floating around in the skies, that they lack self-control and discipline. And certainly, there is a certain truth to this. However, if we dismiss our subjective reality entirely, then we set ourselves up for a great amount of suffering. Then we keep in our emotions, then we start to feel disconnected from existence and other human beings, then we repress our desires if they don't correlate to our rationalist perspective, then we start becoming overwhelmed by stress and anxiety... You may become very succesful in the material world, but you'll realize it's all hollow and you're still the same unhappy person as you were before. In fact, you are unhappier now because you now got what you thought you needed to be happy, but you're still not happy. Now, hope also starts slipping out of your hands. The only way out of this is to start realizing the significance of your subjective reality; You start honouring your feelings, your emotions. You allow yourself to cry or to express joy and laughter in a very frivolous, free-flowing manner. This can be a great relief to your system, and you start to realize the significance of feelings and emotions. However, as I have already explained, the mind tends to swing to the polar opposite. At first we may have honored our rationalism to a great degree, but as we started seeing the pain of our lack of emotional awareness, we now tend to become very antagonistic towards what we first considered to be so valuable. Somehow, we often start to forget all the hypocrisy we saw in people who became very identified with their emotions and feelings. I have already explained what this can result in. Let's get into the next phase. There comes a point when we start once again see the limitations of this identification with all these feelings and the dismissal of the mind, as we were able to when we were still rationalists. However, if we've lived through this phase of feeling-identification, we now start to realize that both heart and mind has a certain significance. This is the door to wisdom. We start to understand that both the language of the heart and the mind has a certain significance. What we don't immediately understand however, is how to proprely integrate both of them. We now start to try to philosophize and figure out logical systems in which we can somehow apply a technique, a strategy, a method as on how to integrate them. We think and think, and the more we go into the many perspectives on what ground or logic we can make our decisions on, the more we start to realize that there is always an opposite perspective to whatever standpoint we take. We use logic —the mind— to try and integrate mind and heart, but again and again we fail to truly understand how to find this balance, because if we really go deeply into it, we always realize that an opposing argument is just around the corner for whatever standpoint we try to take. This can lead to greats amount of confusion, because we don't know what is left and right anymore, what's up and above, what will help us and what will hinder us, what is forward and what is backward... Life can start becoming really difficult and, as was my personal experience, you can come to a point where you become so confused that it paralyzes you to the point where all you do is lay in bed all day, just thinking —even though you're physically perfectly health— and the confusion and thoughts become so crippling that you lose the motivation to do anything at all, except for perhaps supplying the needs for your physical survival. This is the dark night of doubt and confusion, which I personally probably went into more extremely than 99% of people ever will, granted people will reach this stage in their life in the first place. It got me to the point where I started considering and attempting suicide. And it was not merely because I wanted the pain to stop (as I was very open to the idea of reincarnation, this seemed rather futile anyways), but because all other ideas had failed for me, I now had the idea that perhaps if I push the pain to so far that it reaches a certain limit, then perhaps it will somehow instantly transform me, or at least reverse the direction that my life seemed to be heading in. I'm talking about the pain you experience when you're on the edge of death, but haven't made the last step into it yet. So it wasn't really about actually ending it, but pushing the pain to such an extreme so that perhaps something would crack in me and I would have some sort of transformation. It was a last-resort solution, no other idea seemed to work for me anymore. Eventually, I started to realize that this wasn't going to work out for me either. Either it was going to be actual suicide, or a complete change in attitude. Even though I had very strong doubts and fears that it would actually work, there was just one thing I could think of. And that was this: I simply had to make decisions, not knowing whether they were right or wrong, not knowing whether they were helpful or hindering, not knowing whether it was going to make things better or worse, but making decisions for the sake of learning to make decisions, and committing to them (for that moment), as much as I can. It was completely stepping into the complete unknown, having all my intuitive capacities of feeling what I should be doing overshadowed by doubts and fears, and despite all of that still making decisions, and somehow, for no logical explanation at all, still trusting myself and existence in spite of all the worries, that I was heading in the right direction. This is the trust I want to talk about. This is the trust I can not —despite all my clever philosophical capacities— make an argument for as to why to go with it. Except for that it works. Where one who is identified with feelings only may call his/her decisions based on trust, it is still based on faith and identifying with a mental position, namely: "I should go with what feels right". It seems like you're trying to go with your intuition, but in fact, you're not. You're going with a mental position, where your heart simply facilitates your head. Or perhaps I should say: you're going with feeling-intuition, but not with being-intuition. Being-intuition seems in some ways similair to feeling-intiution, but in fact it is radically different. This is the type of intuition that I can not explain or argue in favour for to any rationalist. With feeling-intuition, I can still show the rationalist the significance of feelings and emotional expression as to unburden himself. With being-intuition, my hands are tied. It is a mystery as to what it is. Sometimes it tells you to go with "what feels right", thus implying heart. Sometimes it tells you to go with "what needs to be done", thus implying mind. And sometimes it is somewhere in between. But of course, it doesn't take up a mental position. It simply decides. And you trust it. How can you trust it? How do you know it won't deceive you? Well, there's no way to argue it away, but you simply trust it. It is letting the unknown function through you, and the only indication that this is the right thing to do is the sense of tranquility and peace you get from going along with it, which doesn't mean it stays away from discipline and things you really don't feel like doing. Often times, I don't really even know if I'm listening to my being-intuition or if i'm getting identified with either a mental or emotional (feeling-intuition) position. I'm not so acquianted with it just yet. I've only started to become somewhat acquainted with turquoise for less than a year now [reference to spiral dynamics model]. To differentiate being-intuition from and identification with an idea or feeling is very difficult to notice, very subtle. Most characteristic about it, I would say, is that the element of confusion or hesitation has started disappearing from it. Not that you know for sure this is the right decision, at least intellectually, but there's is no need to be sure anymore. You start to understand that the problem all along was not the decisions you were making, but the division within yourself you were creating when you were making your decisions. One part of you said you should do A, another part said you should do B. Perhaps you were identified with the position of A, but still your unconscious desired for B (or vica versa), so you were in conflict. Perhaps you were genuine enough to see both the validity of A and B, but were unsure as to what to choose, thus still in conflict. Now, with this being-intuition, the decision you make is not important anymore. You can choose A, and that's fine. You can choose B, and that's fine. Perhaps you can even choose AB, and that's also fine. Or perhaps today you choose A, and tomorrow you choose B, and eitherway it is still fine. Now, you start to become truly flexible: being able to switch between a feminine, passive modality to a masculine, active modality very quickly, for whatever the situation requires. You realize that none of this really matters, as long as there is not conflict within you making decisions. Finally, you really start to realize there's no need to worry at all, because you've come to the absolute realization of your own ignorance, so why be worried? You don't know anyways. You can't know! All this worry and striving and contemplating and pondering and disciplining and attempting to accept, trying to not try... All of that was just a complete joke! And you don't even renounce striving, or contemplating or anything like that. If it's a joke, then why avoid it? Jokes are to be played around with. If you start fighting with a joke, it won't be a joke anymore. In realizing all of this, true spirituality and peace starts to become available to you. Finally, you're approaching the promised land, which in reality was never anywhere else but here to begin with. But... Don't take what I say as a philosophy. You have to apply the specific lessons that are relevant for you right now. Your situation is different than mine. Be genuine with yourself, and see what the specific lesson is that you need to learn right now. Don't try to avoid it, even if it is very painful. The only way to peace is to go through the pain of facing yourself, facing your demons. There is no other way. Avoidance is simply delay. What's the point in delay?

@George Fil literal reincarnation. But really I'm just blabbering.

It is apparent that reincarnation exists from the perspective of the mind. At a higher level, one can see and identify with every living thing from the present, past and future.

Hey All, Again, this is not my personal experience but rather intellectual understanding based on my reading of trip reports and Leo's/Other Guru's videos. Here it is. Leo has been reincarnated. Leo and all those who have had "breakthroughs" on DMT/SHROOM/LSD etc trips. How so? Leo, as well as other people's trip reports I have read say this: "I died." That is how they see the truth. upon their death. Call it ego-death or whatever, but as Leo has said this many times - ego-death vs our normal definition of physical death, are really the same thing. Ego-Death isn't anything less than the "REAL-Physical" death of a person. Now where is the "reincarnation"? Many trip reports I have read, people say that they spent an eternity in that state of one-ness, of eternal bliss or whatnot etc before "returning" back to their bodies. Now people say this also, that when we are born, we "choose" to incarnate in a certain body, knowing all well what we intend to do in that lifetime of the person we are being born as. So what we can say is this, when people who just take these substances have a breakthrough experience where they have an ego-death - they then "choose" to come back to this reality. They come back fresh from having downloaded all those insights in their heads. All the questions answered. and with that knowledge etched in their subconsious, they are usually in that bliss-full state for the 1st few days / weeks after that breakthrough trip. Slowly they integrate back to the earthly life (those who are not on the spirtual path more quickly than the one who has taken the subtance knowing about this) so basically, their previous self before the trip is literally dead. They come back as the "new" version/life of themselves. and this is no different than reincarnation. unsure what mechanism is upon physical-death where the body dies and there isn't anything to return back to... then you maybe "choose" or incarnate near the timeline of ur death... except when we incarte after physical-death, this is done in baby-infant form. where all those insights that we know of, and even the memory of that place, is all lost. even in a fully grown adult state, the experince is barely recalled and whatever is recalled is also said to be a mere pointer and not even 1% of what was witnessed. i feel like this maybe all over the place but yeah, my insight about this is in here somewhere i hope

After awakening, it is a complete shift in everything in one's being. One can see all the past and all the ancestors, one can identify with every living and not living things. From a point of view of the ego, one sees reincarnation. From higher perspectives, there is no reincarnation. Because you never lived before so to speak, in this configuration of body/mind. Others different, unique, bodies/minds existed before you. We all identify with the source, only a few are conscious of the source. People can conceptualize enlightenment as much as they want and claim they are everything, I speak from a perspective of practice and experience, that is a totally different point of view, and I don't hope to be understood, is more, I really don't care what others have to say about me, eventually some with get what I say after they awaken

Interesting vid about reincarnation based on stories by kids experiencing memories from past lives:

Sathya Sai Baba (born Sathyanarayana Raju; 23 November 1926 – 24 April 2011) was an Indian guru, a cult leader, and philanthropist. He claimed to be the reincarnation of Sai Baba of Shirdi. Sai Baba's purported materialisations of vibhuti (holy ash) and other small objects such as rings, necklaces, and watches, along with reports of miraculous healings, resurrections, clairvoyance, bilocation, and alleged omnipotence and omniscience, were a source of both fame and controversy. Some say his acts were based on sleight of hand though his devotees considered them signs of his divinity. It happens that when for the first time a meditator attains to some psychic energy, some psychic power, the tendency, a natural tendency, is to exhibit it. And if he exhibits, sooner or later he will lose the power. Then a great problem arises: he cannot do it now, but now he has respectability. He is worshipped and people expect him to do miracles. Now what is he going to do? He will have to turn to magic, he will have to start learning tricks, to maintain his prestige. That's what happened to Satya Sai Baba and people like that. The first things that they had done were real, the first few experiments that they had done were not phony. But then the energy disappears. And by that time you have become famous, and people start gathering, foolish people, stupid people, and they expect you, and your whole ego depends on your exhibition. Now the only possible alternative is to learn magic tricks so that you can go on maintaining your prestige. If you brag, sooner or later you will become a victim of magical tricks. You will have to learn, and deceive people.

Pythagoras was an ancient Greek philosopher. He was famous throughout Greece as the leader of a religious community (the Pythagoreans), for his belief that the soul is immortal and in the possibility of reincarnation. Pythagoras’s belief in the immortality of the soul and the possibility of reincarnation was a huge break from tradition. Because of his belief in reincarnation, Pythagoras also maintained that what you do in this life will determine what happens to you after you die. As such, he created a way of life for himself and his followers that would allow the soul to be purified so that it could have the best reincarnation, and ideally would be able to break from the cycle of reincarnation altogether by uniting with the divine. This way of life brought about another important break from tradition. Instead of honoring the Gods with prayers and gifts, now the focus was on purifying oneself in order to influence what will happen to you when you die. Once when Pythagoras was present at the beating of a puppy, he pitied it and said ‘stop, don't keep hitting him, since it is the soul of a man who is dear to me, which I recognized, when I heard it yelping. He was the first philosopher in the West to create a lasting vegetarian legacy.

Does not work that way. That is the illusion of reincarnation. In the highest degree of reality, you go on the path of enlightenment/immortality and reconsolidate the ego, or you decide to die and never reconquer the ego you had.

@VladimirGiven the choice between reliving trauma in my mind everyday for the rest of my life (a thought) because I identify with it, and experiencing the trauma again, I’d choose the trauma. “If I’m God, why would I have had that happen to me?” is a very sneaky statement. The ego uses the trauma (a memory) to reinforce itself as “me”. That way it can shit all over everyone, whenever it wants, with a feeling of justification. But it’s just a thought. A memory is just a thought. It’s powerless. Other thoughts the ego uses; reincarnation, death, karma, becoming, levels, physical lives, better place. The brain is the most miraculous maya and deeply underestimated. It won’t even pause before weaving a story much bigger than this life, with heavens and hells - just to protect a false identity. On a trip, the mind is free, it is hard to think. Can’t even use a cell phone. Identity must be free, surrendered. If identity is held on to during a trip, we’ll have “hell” to pay for it. You’ve paid enough imo Vlad. That false identity is hell. You can say to the psychadelic “I am this, which this happened to”, and it will Truth you right in the nuts. The Truth has always won, and will always win, there is no opponent, only ideas of opponents. Humility is the way. If the brain can think it’s way to resolving the trauma / identity then I am completely ignorant as to how - otherwise, it must be let go of, surrendered. It’s too big. Give it to God.

@Faceless Speaking of love, is it possible to be wise and in love at the same time? Or is wisdom mind and love absence of mind? And therefore not compatible? I feel like wisdom and truth goes together, just as love and truth goes together. But wisdom belong to the faculty of the mind it seems? And love belong to the faculty of NO mind, hence the faculty of nothingness. Please help me out here. Also@Faceless Thanks for your long and beautiful PM to me. Your approach to the subjects of "soul" and "reincarnation" was very interesting and rings very true to me. Thanks @Faceless ! Namaste.

So what? Taking your words back does not negate that you said it in the first place. The point is, when one is following a spiritual teacher, and they clearly have narcissistic personality disorder, pathological lying and psychotic tendencies, by saying she is the reincarnation of Cleopatra, is half alien, had sex with corpses, lured many children to be murdered and so on, maybe one shouldn't give that a pass and maybe rethink following her. Just an opinion.

Not sure about reincarnation, past life’s, and astrology, but I know you can keep someone’s thinking preoccupied with things like that while you feel where they’re coming from in life, what they want, and what their resitences in thinking are, and you can help them. Sometimes people receive help in different ways, depending on where they’re at, what they’re ready for.

@InfinitePotential @Faceless I hear ya. It’s any interesting topic. I don’t see why there couldn’t be reincarnation - again - in the duality (maya). There are stranger things.

Sure my man. I haven’t read anything on this but I would assume this idea of reincarnation comes about by the false assumption influenced by the illusion of time. Also a conclusion that has been made in accordance to the sense of continuity by identity to the illusory stream of thought/self/ego. “Time” Only through this limited dualistic perception is there this sense of separateness. Only the sense of thought/ego presents such a divisive conceptualization. Without this dualistic perspective separateness is not “timeless” Without this conditioned perspective there is no other. No old no new, no you and no me...It’s all a happening. One whole movement and as you said being. Thats the way I see it. Gotta cut this short. Gotta bring the kid to baseball practice

Reincarnation is true in duality; there are not two beings, only one, so no reincarnation of beings is taking place....and.....every being is actually the same being, so you could refer to past “lives” of the one being, and there could be ‘carry over’ in “lives”. In nonduality, there’s just you and nothing to resolve. Psychologically, when you’re aware of someone’s resistence from a painful experience, and you’re aware they’re not aware of the connection, reference to past lives can be one hell of a tool which circumvents the denial. Like, Jane has esteem issues, body image issues and confidence issues....”Jane, I see in a past life you witnessed many abuses to woman in World War Two when you were a first medical responder at outposts. You saw some really hurtful things and those memories may have carried over into this life subconsciously.” Jane may have such denial of being hurt in her past, such repression, that she is congnitively honestly unaware of the influence on her present emotions. Jane might feel relief that there is an explanation for the way she presently feels (albeit shady use of metaphysical perspective) and Jane might begin to be free enough o work through it. Not my favorite approach, but if it help, it helps.