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Chogyal Namkhai Norbu, The Supreme Source: "I am the teacher, pure and total consciousness, whence everything manifests. Pure and total consciousness is the supreme source, it has created the Buddhas of the three times, from it have arisen the beings of the three worlds and the whole animate and inanimate universe. [... ] Pure and total consciousness has created everything and has not created anything. It has created everything because it has created its own nature, pure and total. It has not created anything because within it there exists no need to create. When my nature is not understood and the phenomena that manifest from me become the object of judgement, desire and attachment give rise to the creation of concrete vision that is impermanent and destined to vanish like a magical apparition, and one becomes like a blind man who does not know what is happening. [...I" "As I transcend all affirmations and negations, I am beyond all phenomena. As no object exists that is not myself, I am beyond meditating on a view. As there is nothing to keep apart from myself, I am beyond a commitment to observe. As there is nothing to seek other than myself, I am beyond obtaining the capacity for spiritual action. As no place exists outside myself, I am beyond a level of realization to surpass. As I have never encountered obstacles, I am beyond [everything] as self-arising wisdom. As I am the ultimate unborn nature, I am beyond [everything] as the [true] subtle ultimate nature" "I am called "the perfect condition" becauseeverything is contained in me. I am called "the source" because the teacher, teaching, and disciples arise from my three natures" "I am the essence of all phenomena; nothing exists that is not my essence. The teachers of the three dimensions are my essence. The Buddhas of the three times are my essence. The Bodhisattvas are my essence. The four types of yogins are my essence. The three worlds, of desire, of form, and without form, too, are my manifestation. The five great elements are my essence. The six classes of beings are my essence. Everything inanimate is my essence. Everything that lives is my essence. All the habitats and the beings living therein are my essence. Nothing exists that is not my essence because I am the universal root: there is nothing that is not contained in me. The unborn, the wonder of birth, and the manifestation of energy are the three aspects of the three teachers: this is their condition." "As the three times, past, present, and future, abide exclusively in me, all the Buddhas are in the same condition: this too is my essence. As I transcend the dualism of subject and object, like space I am allpervading, and I constitute the fundamental substance of all phenomena: my essence is pure and total consciousness. I, that am the source, abide in the single state, and in this same authentic condition the practitioners of the "four yogas" "Realize my nature, the supreme source that is pure and total consciousness. Teach that all the phenomena of existence are only myself! If you transmit my teaching, all your disciples will realize my nature and will become this very nature. "If my nature were to be compassionately displayed to the beings of the three worlds who have originated from me,.... Thus I, the supreme source, disclose my nature, displaying it to myself." "Nothing other than this exists; none of the Buddhas have ever received a higher teaching than this from me, the source. Aside from this condition of equality beyond concepts, I myself, the supreme source whence everything arises, have absolutely nothing whatever to display to myself." "Listen! As all of you are created by me, you beings of the three worlds are my children, equal to me, the supreme source. You are me, inseparable from me, so I manifest to you and through the five teachers of my natures I teach the single state of the five essences [of the elements]. I am the single state, I, the supreme source: you too are, you must become certain of this!" "Listen, Sattvavajra! I will show you your own nature. You are me, the source. I am and have always been pure and total consciousness. What is pure and total consciousness?" "Among all things existing in the animate and inanimate universe, there is not one single thing that has not been created by me, nor is there a cause that does not derive from me. Thus I am the essence of all, and nothing surpasses me. I am superior to the three dimensions, to the Buddhas of the three times, to the Vidyadharas, to the Bodhisattvas, to the beings of the three worlds, to the whole animate and inanimate universe, because I am the maker of all. Before there was any other teaching I, that am the source, pure and total consciousness, disclosed the teaching of pure and total consciousness." But I don't know if that comment still holds: You are asking "God-realization the way Leo teaches it". Since I have a hard time following what the latest definition of the God-Realization-Awakening of Leo is, I am not the authority on what fits his current definition of God Realization. There seems to be sometimes an update on the Awakening to the the Timeless Unborn (Capital Letters). -stolen from @GLORY- : "No they can be awake Or maybe even Awake But they are not AWAKE™" I personally can't agree to claims to why there is no Final Awakening or Enlightenment in which everything (including all appearances and thought/understanding-arisings) appears/is imagined in You, the small separate you is fully seen through, including seeing ANY feeling of any kind of Subjectivity/Individuality watching any kind of Infinity arising in you as more illusion. Just One Infinite (potentially sentient) Reality/You in which everything (n+1) appears/is being imagined/Mirage/Show, and Tat Tvam Asi. And of course that includes imagining/manfesting all (just appearing/imagined) stories of Buddhism, (any spiritual system), your history, your past, your parents, n+1 (which means WHATEVER/Anything possible, or n+1). EVERYTHING is imagined as a big Illusion Show in the Real You (Capital Letters in case when talking about Absolute Reality). Or in other words: The ultimate Mindf*** (pardon my French). Or the ultimate joke. How could it be any different? Of course you can always have more Understandings/Insight on the appearing/relative arisings "stuff/realities/dimensions/Lilas". And since "It" is infinite, you can go on understanding these forever and ever and ever ... infinitely. As long as you have fun doing that, and don't suffer: Perfect. But I wonder how one does the "not suffering" part when one is sobre and then not stably resting in the above described Realization. [Warning: Karma still holds. "Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour." Padmasambhava. So as long as a separate self thinks it can do what it wants since all is just imagined, the only outcome with mathematical precision can only be: suffering. With best regards from Maya, trying to guide you back home]. I have not seen one description from Leo of God Realization that is not covered by Full(!) Enlightenment into Reality/Your True Nature, fully understanding of what Reality is or what You are (please don't beat me ). That includes understanding that all and any manifestation arising in You/Reality is an empty, groundless, imagined(!) arising in you. Of course including the whole you, its history, n+1, EVERYTHING. And like I wrote above, if that is not the most tricky, twisted Illusion/Mindf***, I don't know what is. But the Magnificence and splendor of it ..... Maybe Leo can comment on that? What is the special thing about your definition of God Realization? I am honestly just respectfully asking, and it would be nice if the answer would a) be polite (not that my imagined self-worth suffers) and b) something with content, and not Glorys statement above in different wording + broomstick. Thanks a lot, and Namaste . And for getting "there", among other books: "Pointing out the Great Way, Daniel Brown". And Psychedelics as a preview and along the path of course... respectfully yours Selling Water by the River

Yes. To realize what sand is, what You are, ever have been, ever will be, what Reality is, was and ever will be, and what is and will be the Reality of everything that could ever be, is Enlightenment (the final version of it, not the small ones lining up before that). At least in my lingo. Feel free to call it anything you like. And the sandcastles of the past or future don't exist, but are imagined right here and now. Take the sandcastles/appearance away and there is no time. And what kind of Sand Castles Reality/God can imagine, well that exploration and adventure is what you are seeing right now, to be continued. And since there is an Infinity of differently large Infinities (see Cantor Set Theory and Leos lovely Videos on them, especially "Understanding Absolute Infinity Part 2") , even God/Ultimate Reality will never run out of new sand castles to imagine and explore. That means "It" doesn't even have to imagine all of them (hey, lets skip that Horrorshow Sand Castle over "there", shall we?) to still have an Infinity of realties/Sand Castles yet to be explored. Would be a bit boring if you would already know all infinite Sand Castle-Adventures already. Having what you call Specific Omnicience of every Sand Castle possible/imaginable, that is not possible. God/Ultimate Reality is exploring its potential of an Infinity of Sand Castles. General Omnicience or realizing what Sand is (and what You really are), what the specific Sand Casle of ours is, and what the "substance/Reality" of every possible Sand Castle, is possible, see above. There is not only an Abyss when looking into the Abyss of the Absolute Subject, which by definition can't be an Appearance, or any form, it has to be in-FINITE, not FINITE, initially unaware if nothing is appearing (forms of Deep Sleep as anology), but with the potential for sentience of an appearance if manifesting it in IT to IT, made of IT (the Nondual-Awakening aspect). Your True Face before your parents were born. The Absolute. To really realize that, you have to be fully empty of any separate self arising that you don't see immedeately as object moving in you. Nonduality alone, or hearing the angels sing while still looking out from an empty transparent anything to "that" Infinity won't do it. But on top of that in-FINITE-ness of the Abyss of the Absolute Subject/Reality/Nothingness, there is an Infinity of Infinities of Manifestations/appearances/sand castles arising in IT possible. Ready for the adventure? Selling Water by the River PS: Nice books on these topics: Szyper, Infinite Consciousness: An In-depth Exploration of the Shift in Consciousness Constitutive of Enlightenment in relation to True Nature, the Soul, the Body-Mind, the Heart and the Me Good explanation of the stages of Enlightenment: 1. The Shift [Enlightenment] into the Manifested Essemce of Consciousness (various Awakenings) 2. The Shift [Enlightenment] into the Unmanifested Source of Consciousness/ Shift [Enlightenment] into Infinite Consciousness Gorman, What_s It Like To Be Enlightened, Book 1 & 2 (partial and full Enlightenment) Dziubin, Consciousness Is All

Selling Water by the River, todays water batch: Difference between Awakening and Enlightenment: Enlightenment: You had to cut/transcend every subtle separate sense feelings/thought (very subtle ones, very hard to spot). Then you are fully empty, which is your True Condition. Then, all separate self arisings arise in you, and move in you, but you are not only them. They move in you like the wind. The wind is also you, but you are not only the wind. They are fully transcended. Why is that necessary to fully understand Absolute Reality, or what You are? What you are can be fully empty. Like, nothing at all. Total Nothingness. When no arising is there, Absolute Reality/You is unaware of itself. But with the potential for sentience if something appears (for example, check Hawal and Massaro books). You are still there when all arisings disappear (Nirvikalpha, Deep Sleep, your face before your parents were born). And if you want to understand what You are while forms still arising (like, in normal life), there can not be a subtle separate self/anything cutting the one infinite Unity of the Real You/Reality into a felt subject (Awareness) watching Infinity, even if it feels nondual or infinite. It has to become perceptions perceiving themself, no separate self anywhere to be found. You can not have separate Awareness separated from the field. The infinite field watches itself, literally does. And your body-mind moves in the Totality that you are. The thoughts and feelings of the former separate you are moving in in the True You like the wind. The bliss/love you generate in that state without needing anything external gives you autonomy from chasing externally generated bliss via experiences. It gives you total absolute freedom and love (Bassui below: You will be entirely free) If you understand that for your perspective, you understand that this holds for the structure of all perspectives/beings, for the whole Absolute Reality. Why? Because all perspectives are only form arising in the Absolute, any boundary from one perspective/being to another is either forgetting or form arising in Awareness, seeing itself. The advantage if do that sobre: You need a high developed state of nonduality/nonlocality/centerlessness/mere appearance of the visual bubble. You get that via meditation done correctly. Which doesn't need to be unpleasant or hard (although it normally takes quite a while), at least if done correctly, see for example Pointing out the Great Way, Daniel Brown. If you feel centered in your head, and the outside world appears as solid, you can not understand the Nature of Reality, impossible. So this state is necessary for Enlightenment. But not sufficient. From that stage (Yoga of One Taste) for example, you can continue to dissolve the last remnants of the separate self (for example, Nonmeditation Yoga). And then you can have Insight into what you are. You will not miss that, its definitive. Also, and most important, you got a built in safety check/quality control: You will not cross over to full Enlightenment without fully transcending any and all separate self arising coming up (and the visual field being Nonduality, centerless and infinite). You can't fool yourself here. And you will understand when you are there. Why it is absolute. Awakening: The energetic state of Nonduality/Unity/Infinity with some remnants of separate self still not fully transcended, you can also get by Psychedelics. Which of course is useful in order to have an idea of the goal, a feedback loop to build this nonduality-state via meditation, on and off the pillow. But here, you get the nonduality/mere appearance with subtle remnants of the separate self still intact. You don't have the build in quality/safety mechanism of classic Full Enlightenment. So it is very easy to confuse these experiences for the final Realization of what you are. Everyone having experienced it claims this on the difference between Awakening and Enlightenment, see for example Frank Yang/Ralston/Wilber/Jac O'Keffee/Steven Wolinsky/... (anticipating certain feedback: "they are not awake, but enlightened". Well, with the definitions above I could agree). Enlightenment is in a different ballpark. And you can't imagine it without it fully happening. So it is not some mild form of "God-Realization", or Nothing. It is something of a different category. It is, to quote Ralston, fully understanding what You are and what Reality is. Without any separate self filters, however subtle, still active. So what happens if you value Psychedelic Awakenings or Understandings higher than fully being and realizing what you are? You guessed it: Reality doesn't let you off the hook, you still have psychological suffering. The separate self arisings cut you off from the full flow of love of your True Being for itself. So you need experiences to get this love flowing. For example the love you feel when understanding-experiences of the exquisite beauty of the design of Reality/Dimensions happen. Is anything with exploring Alien-Godminds wrong? For sure not, this understanding is probably among the most beautiful experiences you can have. I just feel it becomes problematic if you value getting the love the unenlightened separate self needs from these experiences, and valueing these understandings of Alien-Godminds higher than classic Enlighenment and fully understanding your True Nature, and resting in it. Why not pursue and value BOTH endevours on an at least equal basis? Not downplaying Enlightenment as somehow not on the same level or lower than any other insight into the appearance or form side of Reality (which is infinite). If what is stated above is correct, with one path one is lead to salvation (Enlightenment), and with the other path (Understanding/Awakenings), well.... best regards from Maya, but you get a medal from her with distinction for playing her game on the highest level possible. For the readers: You will probably not achieve higher level of bliss and love than your teacher using his teachings. And how these levels will develop: Well, we are in the prime seats here to see how it will continue. I don' think I have a high chance of convincing Leo. So that means that the job of convincing to develop via suffering (or hopefully only not being as happy and loving than one could be) stays where it always has been, and ever will be: Maya, CEO of Samsara. All the best, enjoy the ride and the show, and Namaste! Selling Bullshit Water by the River. PS: There is already water by the River, so I am too lazy to carry Bulls**t there. ( : Bassui: “What is it that hears?” Only when you have completely exhausted the questioning will the question burst; now you will feel like someone who has come back from the dead. This is true realization. You will see the Buddhas of all the universes face-to-face and the Dharma Ancestors past and present. ... If you push forward with your last ounce of strength at the very point where the path of your thinking has been blocked, and then, completely stymied, leap with hands high in the air into the tremendous abyss of fire confronting you—into the ever-burning flame of your own primordial nature—all ego-consciousness, all delusive feelings and thoughts and perceptions will perish with your ego-root and the true source of your Self-nature will appear. You will feel resurrected, all sickness having completely vanished, and will experience genuine peace and joy. You will be entirely free. For the first time you will realize that walking on water is like walking on ground and walking on ground like walking on water; that all day long there is speaking, yet no word is ever spoken; that throughout the day there is walking, yet no step is ever taken; that while the clouds are rising over the southern mountains their rain is falling over the northern range; that when the lecture gong is struck in China the lecture begins in Korea; that sitting alone in a ten-foot-square room you meet all the Buddhas of the ten quarters; that without seeing a word you read the more than seven thousand volumes of the sutras; that though you acquire all the merits and virtues of good actions, yet in fact there are none.

Yes its is, but accessing self is generally most peoples problem when doing IFS in the first place. Some basic ability to transcend ego is required to even start IFS so it basically assumes you can already do that. The unbending process in IFS is called introspective awareness in meditation. However, to reliably sustain this, requires months of meditation practice. There is also a higher state called 'metacognitive introspective awareness' where you are aware of your entire internal system at once. This makes IFS much more powerful. Some ego loss may occur from unburdening childhood traumas, but full enlightenment can't really be achieved with IFS alone since that would mean transcending the notion of self and parts. I've spoken to people who have done IFS for years and they always tell me that they are never fully healed and that its a lifelong journey. The video I linked in my previous post explains this very well. Just ignore the new age shit at the very end... That being said, doing IFS has made my meditation practice wayyy deeper since there are fewer obstacles on the path. In that sense, they are synergistic and everyone should do both. I think most people on this forum, especially Leo would benefit from IFS. Consequently, most people doing IFS should practice meditation and nonduality.

Occasionally you have SOME people who will do a psychedelic and will permanently break through to some first stage of enlightenment, but this is relatively rare, and full enlightenment is virtually impossible. Here are the problems with psychedelics and enlightenment: - If you suffer from narcissistic personality disorder, you are almost certain to experience full blown (Jungian) inflation, i.e. your ego is absorbed by the archetype of the divine (i.e. Cosmic Ego.) This is most of your cult leaders, certain rock stars (like Jim Morrison e.g.), even some philosophers. - If you suffer from antisocial personality disorder, you may read the Bhagavad Gita literally and conclude since there is "no doer" you may kill people -- like Charles Manson. - Confusing having an experience of nonduality or some mystical insight with actually living in a nondual state 24/7/365. Since the surrender required for any genuine enlightenment cannot be forced by psychedelics (there is always an element of voluntary surrender, or braving the fear of ego death even with psychedelic trips) most people return to an egoic state most of the time. - Again, the very psychology of psychedelic enlightenment is highly misguided. It removes agency, like psychedelics are ACTING UPON YOU to cause enlightenment. This isn't how it works, and e.g. why some people who do psychedelics discount the experience in materialistic terms and return to be e.g. atheist materialists. In other words, you have to VOLUNTARiLY surrender the ego and all its precious attachments, including cherished beliefs and enter an entirely uncharted territory where you are unmoored from everything that defined the old "you". This isn't something that can be FORCED upon you via a chemical rearrangement of the brain. Once you come-down you may decide to interpret the experience in whatever way you choose, and some choose the blue pill a la The Matrix.

What would happen to you in the spirit world if you reached full enlightenment, but then soon after you committed physical suicide? Not out of hatred or depression for this world, your love for this physical world is very deep, but you just felt like playing a different game, to just go to the other side sooner because you simply wanted to. It could thought of as, you love your country, but you feel like living in another country because you just want to. How would this affect your reincarnation cycle? I understand if you reach enlightenment, your reincarnation cycle ends, but if you commit suicide after enlightenment would you be somehow forced to go back into the reincarnation cycle? Also, would you be left in some lower dimension or even hell if you did this even after enlightenment? Or maybe somehow cause yourself some other negative consequence. Or would it all be the same as just dying of natural causes, where you would end up going into some very high dimension and be free of the reincarnation cycle?

What is full enlightenment..?

So for a few years now i use lsd to open the gates so to say. I am already way past my mind and my ego when i am in that state and i experience myself as God (i become everything in my experience) I always sit down, Focus on my sense of being and than "the god head" opens up within me and huge amounts of energy flood my System. Sometimes the Energy gets so strong that i have the feeling if i go on i will physically die or my nervous System will be deytroyed. I then stop the process because i dont want to leave my body yet. Everytime i let the Energy flood my System, my consciousness expands even more though... Its maybe important to mention that my ego already dissolved when i am in that state of flooding myself with energy. It just feels like im going deeper and deeper into what i TRULY am and at a certain point Its just too much for my body. It Literally starts hurting in my nerves... Now my question is should i just go deeper and is there no danger to my body or should i go slow? Is this maybe just some ego Mechanism, which is still there and keeps me from having full enlightenment? Thx

Yes, permanent awakening is not my goal, my goal in life is to have as many rich and varied experiences as possible. I love the form, I love the different qualities, that's the whole point of being human to me. Don't get me wrong, from a human standpoint I rarely have almost any negative emotions, my daily life is filled with fun, enjoyment, and love (of the human level), most of the time I am aware to varying degrees that I am god, and I can usually even enter some kind of state of nondual awareness, and I don't feel like I am hearing or seeing things, et cetera, they just happen. Now maybe that sounds like a really good state, but when I said I consider this suffering I meant pretty much any human state that includes a body, because to me it just seems that anything you can do as a human doesn't come even close to what I've experienced. It's part of being human. Maybe suffering was a too strong word to use, I don't know how to convey it, but what I mean isn't just a sort of peace, I can enter those kinds of peaceful states easily. I don't mean it in the sense of craving or desire. I don't believe that desire is what causes suffering, after all, this is God's desire. The kind of state that I would consider 'full enlightenment' for me is on the scale of infinite consciousness, and I'm just not going to be able to sustain that. My consciousness would be too focused on consciousness itself to actually do anything, I need a lower level of consciousness to even be able to function as a human. I also know all of those were my imaginations, but I love my imagination, imagination is one of the things I enjoy the most. I love form, but also the formless. I also love the truth, but I love a lot of other things too. I'm too madly in love with my girlfriend that I could take time away from her (and a lot of other things) for the sole pursuit of enlightenment. Psychedelics give me a nice way to get both. I've experienced both, and I don't want solely one or the other. Even when I enter any kind of peak state and do once again reach different levels of awakening ranging from basic awakenings to becoming conscious of infinite degrees of love and so on, I never regret having lived like this, and would not trade it for some sort of higher level of total permanent awakening. It's just what I like, I like both sides.

In this context when i say highest goal i mean full dissolution of ego. Total wipe out of samskaras and defilements. That's very buddhist version of full enlightenment/liberation. Mystism is like exploration of different dimensions of consciouness.

In the Buddhist scriptures there are many examples of men who became instantly enlightened by hearing the words of the Buddha. But in modern society, people meditate for decades without any improvement. Could it have been the different in culture? The men in Buddha’s time came from tribes and had the tribal world view and a non materialistic mindset. It didn’t take much for them to transition into full enlightenment. The purple stages were overcome through violence, not because they lacked anything. Thus, the conquering stages had better military strength. Having thousands of people as slaves building irrigation systems for the Nile is not an improvement of cognitive ability.

@A_v_E I'm sorry, this might be helpful if you are working at some absolute level, but this doesn't help people day to day. For average people that are not in a place where full enlightenment is their life, working under the philosophy of trying to maximize happiness through normal means is a lot more helpful. Don't lose touch with 99% of the population

Before I started taking enlightenment work seriously around 2017 I had a huge delay in almost everything material related compared to my "peers" This is one of the reasons I pursued this work so ardently, I basically believed that anyone who had something going on was enlightened in some way for that thing to work, since I always saw beyond people's justifications on how things worked out for them: basically people take credit for good things and disown the bad results while I saw that everything is context, everything is God's will... So with that in mind I decided to go for full enlightenment first and foremost in order to manifest this dream the way I always intuited it can be. Fast forward to now, after all the ego deaths and consciousness exapnsion to include everything and all that good stuff, I (ego me) turned out to be the ultimate loser, if anything I feel that pure consciousness aside, I am worst off than the place I started, and I feel way too bitter and broken about it, to the point where I feel like no matter what happens, "this" cannot even be recontextualized... I'm afraid I wont ever turn out to be happy, content, or winning. I am full of bitterness, apathy, desires for revenge... and all the consciousness I used to tap into is now fully gone, it's just ego, I understand now what "devil" means, what falling from grace is all about. BUT, knowing things in the way I do now, I know that this too IS God, but I just can't grow from it, I'm also too conscious to just go back into "ordinary existance" and climb my way up the ordinary way, so what I basically concluded after all the pain is that existance (for me) is me realizing that the universe exists for me to fulfill my ego's desires, but for that to happen I literally need a miracle, the question is now how would one go about that? How would one manifest a miracle for the greater good of one's ego? This inquiry may seem like a joke to many people here who believe that this is all unspiritual and that I'm full of shit, but it is what it is. To me, Ego, Self, God and Consciousness are (still) synonimous and I can't differentiate between the them. So I believe it is a geniune desire of god to win through little limited me; OR; It is my geniune desire to win THE WAY I WANNA WIN in order to fall back in love with existance. Can this be done? Deep down I know it can totally be done, and sometimes I even intuit that it's EASY, but from the limited place I am in, it feels like it's too much to carry and I just go into lethargy blaming myself (as God) How does one go about reversing this basically? has anyone dealt with this? I have the intuition that Leo has gone (is going) through similar things but I feel that he just focuses too much on one side of the equation without going too much into detail about things like shadow work, ego validation, the necessity of selfishness in love... To summerize things, my ultimate question through this post is this: How does one take FULL control/lucidity of reality? How does one take reality's power in order to serve one's ego?

Ego death could be regarded as enlightenment. Depending on how one frames it, no-self can be regarded as the central aspect of enlightenement - but then again, it's the exact same as Infinity and Love. Seen from a different point of view, ego death doesn't happen because the ego was an illusion to begin with. There really is nothing that could die, you're smack in the middle of enlightenment right now. But it's the recognition of this, that is what is generally considered as "enlightenment". Although even to speak of a "recognition" or "realization" or "becoming conscious of" is still not "full enlightenment" (which is the same as no-enlightenment) in my view and the big punchline still awaits those who think they're enlightened - or that they could ever have been un-enlightened. You are enlightenment, period. No work and no realization will ever change anything about that. Spirituality is one big game, at the end of which you will find yourself in the exact same place where you started. It's a total, perfect mindfuck.

There is no monk, no enlightened beings, no full enlightenment, no photograph. You can not burn yourself, you can so to speak, recognize yourself.

@Raptorsin7 yes. That's the whole point. That's why people worship them as enlightened beings. That's what full enlightenment looks like. Not eating potato chips releasing tension. Talking nondual phylosophy.

@Mason Riggle That's crazy!! Like an Eckhart Tolle sudden awakening? I've been pushing myself hard to silence all thoughts (false answers — every answer — to my question "Who am I?"). Fortunately, I'm finally just starting to get the hang of taking breaks whilst some of the inquiry fire is kept alight, so I don't have to go back and re-experience the more difficult starting part of the process every time I return to formally practicing with everything I have. Would you say that you need to be, to at least some degree, 'dead inside'/'emotionally numb' to see this thing through to full enlightenment?

I know because of my personal experience with rigorous meditation. I wish I could communicate how radically my baseline state of being has shifted from before starting on the path to now. It’s utterly beautiful how much life has transformed and Im continually blown away by how deep meditation is. Every time I sit down it feels like Im microdosing on psychedelics, often times it feels stronger than a microdose. But this has only come after very intense practice. How do I know? By reflecting on my own experience. I mean seeking without the attachment of finding any answers. The joy of curiosity and the path is not in the breakthroughs, but with the pursuit of the path itself. For example, the hours upon hours one spends in meditation wont lead to breakthroughs or insights. Insights do arise but are the overwhelming minority. Yet those hours we spend will be some of the most fulfilling in our lives. Once it’s recognized there is no one actually seeking, the energy of seeking can fully flower in a relaxed, spontaneous, and powerful way. This seeking comes from the detachment of being anyone or anything at all. The belief in a separate self is what creates the contraction around seeking that some spiritual communities criticize. Something valuable is lost if one prematurely stops before full enlightenment. I can’t communicate what is lost. The only way you’d truly know is by gaining that which cannot be gained, attaining that which was always so, and contrasting its significance in your own experience. If your decision feels authentic, then don’t let me dissuade you. No judgements persay and certainly no fear. Ive just seen this type of rationale before. The possibility for self-deception and avoiding the work is rampant in many. But also, practice, the work, the path all have contractive periods. Sometimes we must contract before we expand. Sometimes an entire life is one of contraction. Im not saying that’s the case here, just sharing thoughts.

@Consilience It feels like it chose me, if I'm being honest. I grew up in the Pentecostal church, so I was familiar with the phenomenon of spontaneous movements. When I discovered this form of Yoga, it just felt like home. Back in 2010, I had done several Enlightenment Intensives where I directly experienced the truth of Who and What I am. It's not hyperbole when I say it completely changed the course of my life. The problem though was that I could not retain the peace and joy that came with those realizations. For a few weeks after a retreat, I would feel the absolute perfection of existence. Nothing would bother me, and I could easily rest in my own true nature. Then inevitably, things would begin to nag me again. I would get angry or upset. I couldn't figure out what had changed. I decided that I needed a spiritual practice to stabilize my realizations. I tried Zen, but it didn't resonate. I read books and attempted to figure things out on my own, but I quickly recognized the need for a teacher. The Enlightenment Intensive had worked so well for me, I decided to see what practices the founder of the retreat used. That's how I discovered Sahaja Yoga. The purpose of kriyas is purification. What is described as being purified varies between teachers. Some say sanchit karma, some say prana, some say the mind, and all are correct. Whatever is true is true right now. Nothing new is gained with realization, but something is lost. To realize what is true in this moment, limiting beliefs and false concepts have to be discarded. In the Enlightenment Intensive, which some of Peter's programs are based on, contemplation is the tool used to purify the mind enough so that a breakthrough can occur. @kieranperez said the same basic thing. Even more importantly is the purification that is needed to abide as the truth. The classic yogic texts all echo the same idea, both jnana and yoga are required for moksha. Even Sri Shankaracharya said that if you cannot grasp Vedanta then more Hatha is required. Charles Berner, later known as Yogeshwar Muni, had many enlightenment experiences, but he was astute enough to see that chasing more and more peak experiences could not result in full enlightenment. That is why he sought out a teacher, and after meeting Swami Kripalu, he found what he was looking for. He spent the remainder of his life performing Yoga sadhana for 10 hours a day. The gradual vs sudden enlightenment argument is a very old one, and both sides are true from a perspective. I say get it if you can get it. If you can't get it right away, then keep trying. Yes, my sadhana is complete surrender. Kripalu and Muktananda are different branches of the Siddha tree, but yes, we always have to be careful of corruption.

I really wish people would be careful while trying to find the 'Truth', especially when psychedelics are involved. Because your insights can be completely misinterpreted which can slowly send you in a downward spiral toward depression and suicide. You can go on train of thought which goes only one direction, which is down. It's important to stay grounded in reality. Make sure your insights actually have some kind of basis and fundament to it. Take baby steps, don't try to aim for full enlightenment immediately. It's like when people just learn to drive they immediately want to drive a sportscar with 2000horsepower and test its limits, while on drugs. The chances if you getting hurt are extremely high. Cross-check your insights with other experienced and grounded people. And if you feel you are on a downward trajectory, seek real help.

wrong question. did you ever stop praying after enlightenment? would be the question to answer this notion of what full enlightenment probably is. if not every moment of your life became like a prayer, you, like me probably always ever only had glimpses.

This thread is created with the intent to help those who explore it to better know themselves. Learning intimately about others is the only thing that has ever taught me about myself, because the eye cannot see itself. Recorded December 6, 2021 — My Intense Journey from Stream Entry to 3rd Path (Theravada Buddhism) — Part 1 Recorded April 10, 2014 — Pleasure is Everything Those are the first and last recordings I still have access to from my YouTube account. I really wish I had my first popular video to share, but it was deleted. It was a 12-14 year old me giving a guide on how to train melee combat stats in the most effective way in RuneScape 2 with a whiny high-pitched voice I was incredibly self-conscious of. Here are two amazing videos made by a couple of the people I’ve imitated the most. They are the highest creations accessible that the two individuals have ever made, in my flawed and humble opinion. Remember though, even my humility is a complete lie a front regardless of how genuine and authentic it might feel to me at the time of writing this. I’ve spent hundreds of hours watching both of these people, their journeys, and their teachings over many years. All you can ever do is imitate. The entire journey from egoic consciousness to Absolute Divinity, Full Enlightenment, and God-Realization occurs in every micro-moment of time. Find more Time. No power or force can ever escape this process. God has trapped itself in an eternal prison. The only worthwhile thing to do is to find a way to enjoy the prison which will not work for anything longer than a micro-moment of time. There is no such thing as a present moment. The most effective thing I can do personally to reduce this arrogance is to repent my sin which is the exact same sin Lucifer committed before we came to earth. I repent to God/Heavenly Father/Heavenly Mother/Tao through the impeccable vehicle of Jesus Christ as I was raised in a Mormon church, grew up in America, and other cultural factors. Regardless of this, I really do urge you to consider why the Bible is the most popular book ever written and Christianity is the world's largest religion with only Islam coming close and even that encapsulates Jesus Christ directly into the religion when studied properly. The Buddha is a real mutha-fuckin’ G in my eyes as someone post-stream entry, but I don’t consider him to be anywhere as pure of an example as Jesus. Jesus transmitted the Dharma by bringing the Highest Teaching to the most downtrodden of society in a public setting to his ultimate demise and supposedly took the FULL WRATH OF GOD IN THREE HOURS. Like I kind of said already, it’s a preference of mine, but hey, what is not a preference at the end of the day? This describes the Natural State rather impeccably which I have verified through direct experience: "Quite surprisingly, upon reentry, life becomes very simple and ordinary. We no longer feel driven to have extraordinary moments, to have transcendent experiences. Sitting at the table in the morning and drinking a cup of tea is perfectly adequate. Drinking a cup of tea is experienced as a full expression of ultimate reality. The cup itself is a full expression of everything we have realized. Walking down the hallway, each step is a complete expression of the deepest realization. Raising a family, dealing with children, going to work, going on vacation — all of it is a true expression of that which is inexpressible." — The End of Your World: Uncensored Straight Talk on the Nature of Enlightenment by Adyashanti One more boat to use until you reach the shore: Memory is just a commonplace deja-vu. With “love,” Brandon Rohe ?

Teaching about Love and teaching about suffering are the same thing when it goes full circle, just different flavors. Until it goes full circle, they seem like oppositional forces. Try considering dukkha as a continuum rather than one side of a duality that somehow prevails over sukha. The Four Noble Truths dismantle the idea that everything is suffering for if there is a path out of suffering, the way suffering is experienced and conceived of prior to that path being Realized cannot be some permanent universal constant. The three characteristics are just pointers that self destruct upon 4th path Realization, at least how they were perceived prior to that Realization. They mean something entirely different. Once one gets to the other shore, the boat is left behind. Nondoership/penetrating the illusion of agency upgrades cravings to Nature/Tao/Universal Control. Fighting a seeking urge before reaching the loss of suffering as a solution is not necessarily effective in many cases. Daniel Ingram suggests that practice should be maintained especially in the rough spots. He also says that himself and a small group of highly awake people had a discussion in which they all without question arrived at the conclusion that practice should be maintained even after full enlightenment on the insight/wisdom axis of development. You could even gather statistics on whoever you think to be fully awake beings, and I guarantee you’ll see more of them continuing to practice compared to those who stop. Stopping seeking in any intentional way is in many cases just another form of seeking. “I’m here already. Enlightenment is already the case.” True in many respects, but also restrictive in many other ways also.

Yes embodiment is important, but embodiment is not an erasure of personality. Being a placid monk is not necessarily embodiment. He spends a good amount of time teaching when he could do so many other things. Maybe he’s not “fully embodied” from certain perspectives, but I think it’s hard to even know where he is in regards to this without being fully awake and meeting him in person. It’s just a guessing game with the info we have IMO. Sila (roughly translated to morality) is said to never have a cap, so in that regard, there is no full enlightenment if you’re considering that part of enlightenment. When he says enlightenment, he’s referring to the insight/wisdom (this is not referring to commonplace human wisdom btw) part of the equation. Certainly there are people more advanced than him in regards to sila.

Frank is an awakened person but I don't consider him fully enlightened in the context of historical masters out there. I believe his brain physiology make him makes him naturally gifted in understanding things but at the same time his composition makes him limited to fully grasp the entire spectrum of what it means to be everything Sort of like that gifted guy that can fly in a helicopter around the city and draw the complete landscape with a photographic memory, Frank is like that spiritually. The end game is embodiment plus action = full enlightenment IMHO