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Sadhguru addresses this directly here, i've bookmarked to where he answers "Is God Love", i luv the brilliance of his answer, which is NO. Existence, or God, Brahman, whatever allowed this all to happen, was there before Creation and here Now always, is more Intelligence than anything.. Just think of an Atom, the smallest object, we have been studying it for a very long time, spent billions on machines to find out its secrets, and we still do not know all there is to know about the Atom, but there are more Atoms within You than there are stars in the entire Universe, but we know little about it, why it is here, how it was created, when it was created, etc,. and this is just about the smallest object, what about everything else? What is allowing everything to happen, to be created and destroyed every milli second, how did it really start and how will it end, and cycle to another Universe, this sort of Grand Intelligence is so vast and complex we will never understand it, but it is within Us and can Experience a piece of it... People will always attribute God to what they are lacking in, God is Love, God is Power, God is all Knowing, etc...God is all these things, not just one thing. Love is essentially a very intense Emotion Humans are capable of, but Bliss trumps Love and Ecstasy Trumps Blilss, if You stay in Bliss for long periods of Time You will not want to go down to Love State, it won't sustain You lol.. The Hindus put it the best, Existence is Sat Chi Annada, Truth Consciousness Bliss...

The "devil" is in your mind and will catch you, one way or another. Even the bliss of the dualistic heaven itself is fuelled by the screams of pain in hell. So unless you enter an ignorant state in heaven, you will still be aware of the duality that sustains your bliss and the devil will still be there haunting the back of your mind. By resisting it you are only denying the other half of reality. To succeed in your "goodness" you ultimately end up sacrificing most of mankind to Satan himself, through the belief that they burn in hell and somehow deserve it. So once again, in the name of the ultimate "good", (which in the fundamentalist Christian sense means denial of evil), you end up committing the greatest evil, which is sacrifice of almost all mankind to the devil. Reality needs both sides to function my friend, the devil feeds off of resistance and denialn. We don't need to love the devil, but just understand it is a representation that is just another side of the same coin that all the "purity" and "goodness" is. The devil isn't ultimately real, only God is, but the Devil is an aspect of God. The Absolute must include and transcend both. And what we call the devil can be integrated and "tamed" in healthy way through art and spiritual and philosophical insight. Until then, as long as the insistence on one-sidedness of reality and God continues, the ancient war machine maintains its momentum.

Yes completely agree, its a Sweet path of the Emotions and such attributes, I call it the path of Bliss, once You feel the Bliss that is inherent within all of Us, always there, then life Transforms, all suffering is gone and never to return, then there is no service just being natural, like when I cut my skin, it natural to take care of it, no service required, just naturalness flowering out in expression coming from the Bliss/Love within that is not dependent on anything or anyone, then Life potentials open up and real living begins, nice Sharing James... James

Yoo my peeps! (Sorry for click bait title) Haha. I’m still deep in a shroom trip but had a beautiful awakening to awareness, God, formlessness, nothingness, wow. Such a healing trip. I took about 3 grams shrooms and there was a point when I stopped meditating to do some yoga, mostly just moving the energy in my body as needed and at some point I just awoke to the divine masculine and feminine within and they “merged:made love”. I don’t really know how else to explain it. I stared in the mirror and saw a king/warrior looking back at me just holding divine presence and strength. It was this wise MAN who just like knew and held me in completely acceptance and love. It’s like I was looking at my fully actualized self but I swear the thing in the mirror was like it’s own entity. This king/God that looked like me and was just holding unwavering presence for me. I walked around my village just amazed that this is a dream and we’re all these characters and there’s all these energies and facets to the dream and it’s wild and dangerous and light and love and so rich! Such a complex and detailed drama with infinite depth, also Women. Women are proof of God. Women are… :—@0 (yup) I went into the ocean for sunset and absolutely melted into the ocean. Laughing my ass off like a nut “It’s GOD, it’s GOD no fucking way, you can’t top this, no Oscar nominated movie comes even close to how this is unfolding!” Yelling into the ocean not giving half a fuck about anything. No problems no worries pure joy. I then went to a singing circle with the yoga school here. So much beauty. My heart opened and all insecurities just faded. There was a point where we were singing to the Goddess Shakti and I look around and there’s like 5 women just sitting around me. It’s like I was holding down the divine presence and center for these angels. Still tripping balls. I sang until I felt my heart literally open and I was no longer controlling anything it’s like consciousness was just flowing through me unimpended I had a moment of gratitude for you guys even though we don’t really know each other we’re kinda all in this journey together. And I appreciate most of you for your wisdom shared here, fuck it, even the trolls and whiners, love you guys too. shoutout to @ZenSwift for sharing your trip reports, in a weird way it helped me a lot. It gave me the courage to push through and dive in Lastly, mad love to @Leo Gura man, wow, everything you have done for me. I’m without words. All I can say is I’m so grateful to have stumbled upon your channel and THANK YOU for following your heart and vision life purpose and not giving a fuck about the barriers conditioning and human bullshit in the way. You are a serious badass mother fucker and I love you. You’ve helped me awaken to myself as God. No amount of money, sex, etc can be a bigger gift to another human being. I humbly send you the highest vibrations and love in life. Lastly, I hope we can make this forum a place to share more God awakenings in a communal and supportive manner. Maybe that’s already what was happening, probably, but let’s please stop bitching and judging each other so much. We’re all in this together and few others especially in the real world know what we know and understand what we do. Not trying to sounds cult like or superior, but it’s special. I hope we can show some serious love here to each other. Anyhoo, time to listen to music, smoke organic tobacco, and bliss out. Aho! PS. I think I’ve found the actual best music to trip to. It’s called Cura Journey Mix by Porangui and it opens channels and healing like I’ve never experienced. The man is a master. PSS I wrote this last night and never posted. Today I went to ecstatic dance in the jungle with my community and took a .7g dose. Full awakening to love, the dream, so divine. So much love so much peace so much authenticity. I danced with every woman I was interested in and didn’t let fear hold me back. The way this is all unfolding is literally too good to be true. It’s perfect

Why do you think it's a problem? If you do? Try listening to different types of music that don't have lyrics and appreciate the subtlety and vastness of sounds in it. The more you will listen, the more you will hear. I don't have any fantasies when I am listening to music anymore, for a long time. People listen to music for different reasons. Most primary is association with the past emotions and memories. Other could be that it really stimulates immagination. I have been told that my music made somebody very imaginative, maybe that is just your subsoncsiousness (which may or may not have a meaning) communicating and reacting to it. Just see it as it is and accept it. It will reduce it's impact. I experience bliss and piece of mind and I often try to focus on that space where music enters your cognition. I get bored sometimes and not want to listen to anything also.

This turned out to be so accurate. I took a low dose (10mg) of 4-HO-MET, a psych well known for being easy and gentle, and experienced a pretty significant trip. Just like with DMT or mushrooms, my subconscious was laid bare and my usual sense of self became profoundly expanded. Strong euphoria bordering on bliss was passing through my body. It's so cool because you can feel the sensation originating from some kind of higher plane. Was an awesome trip overall, just stronger and way more profound than expected. I have no idea how kids take this stuff and hang out socially lol. Though I wonder if the energetic transformations that people like us in this forum have experienced via 5meo and spiritual practice would have a strong influence on psychedelic trips. It seems pretty likely imo.

Won't that potentially make the other people lazy and therefore create suffering because they'll become less compassionate because apparently you can only have compassion for suffering, listen, empathy and compassion is also for others pleasure and bliss.

I'm going to be annoying for fun here, let me say meaning, equanimous/selfless/egoless, service to others and the like are just more sensations too, what happens ultimately with the final evolution of all systems is that they tend do devolve into a yes/no ultimate/seed state where you can spring yourself up or down to connect/disconnect to all other systems or beings, the yes no is bliss/suffering or love/suffering or ego/egoless which means that everything that you just said is simply relative to whoever is beholding it so that's why we fight and how we engage we need something to remove or we need to enhance something, this something is just whatever our sensations/meaning/ego are which if fine by me. Are you confused or am I the only human being who is? How is that so many human beings deny each others realities this what I'm doing to right now?Probably but I'm just seeking to fulfill my desires for interaction really, I don't feel too confused anymore but that had little to do with realizations themselves but more with just a release from chronic physical hell.

Agreed and it seems there's a fundamental sensation underlying all sensations which is bliss/suffering, it gets tagged/bound to the other sensations of sight/sound/taste/etc creating our behaviors and maybe reality itself, no matter where I look or how hard or how little I try I am bound to follow bliss/suffering 100% of the time, I wonder what this means all the time which is of course another set of sensational bounds attached to mental sensations. I do feel like my particular bliss/suffering core of sensation is unique to me, it is likely slightly different for other humans even when we exclude most of the bounded sensations just like it should be.

My question is, do I really need to follow those retreats schedule to the t or is it okay to allow myself some flexibility and continue what I have been doing? - I think you're doing the right thing, you probably intuit that having a better night's sleep will improve the meditation effectiveness, and just flowing with life more instaed of upkeeping a schedule will turn out to be more meditative in the end. The whole goal is to become meditative whilst operating in life, so I would try that more - more walking in nature whilst meditating,. That helped me alot. Less painful to walk for 6hrs per day in a forest meditating than to sit for 6 hrs. Do you have recommendations for a different type of meditation techniques suitable for a home retreat? Would a different technique give me different results in comparison to Vipassana? Please consider dropping vipassana. Why do you need a technique to bring yourself closer to yourself? Look at Rupert Spira's videos for instructions, it's a non-doing, much more pleasant than VIpassna. No need for a strict posture, as well. If you practice this non-doing meditation for the same period as a vippasna with the same intensity - I would guess it will be more effective. Try it out. It was for me. It is also more practical. Easier to integrate into everyday life. Now at the office I walk around meditative, at least sometimes. Also, how much impact does the duration of a retreat really have? Is a 10 day one really that different from a 7 day one for example? Not sure about the exact number of days, but I found that if I go for a month, then it will be transformative. Many enlightenment experiences, etc.. People who met me after month-long retreats said I got a completely different vibe. They can feeel the meditativeness emanating. There is one drawback, though. If beautiful music plays in public, you might cry a little. jk, not a drawback, those states are just so amazing that they bring out tears more and more often. Sometimes you might look at tree's and cry alot, just from the beauty and the bliss inside. Anyway, good luck with your retreat, glad to see that you are doing what really matters, and not the being fully immersed into the concepts.

Check out Allan Watt’s talk about god dreaming lives of 75 years of endless bliss. The dreams become boring and he starts to dream of pain or random unexpected stuff and eventually dreams the life you are living now. imagine your utopia. If the sun was always up you would not appreciate it without night. If you were always high you would take it for granted. Imagine a great eternal pleasure and then just boredom or more mild pleasure. You would recalibrate boredom or mild pleasure to be your new “pain.” Just be. Accept the now. Surrender.

If the object of inquiry is beyond the scope of perception, it will be difficult to describe because language operates only in the world of experience. Therefore, we can never get a precise definition of consciousness from words. How can the limitless cause of existence be packed into words? Perception tells us that the universe is quite small, limited to what we can see with the eyes, hear with the ears, smell with the nose, taste with the tongue and touch with the skin. The invention of instruments that extend the range of the senses expands our notion of the scale of the universe and we now infer that it is infinite. When we try to infer the cause of the universe, both perception and inference break down and imagination takes over. We imagine someone or something so vast, grand and glorious that it cannot be experienced or described. This imagination-fed belief leads to the conclusion that words are useless as far as enlightenment is concerned. It is responsible for the notion that consciousness is a mystery and will forever remain a mystery. It is a mystery if you do not know how to look for it, but once you are in on the secret, it is as accessible as the nose on your face. What if the cause of the universe is not out there somewhere in space or locked in the infinite past, but is in our own minds? What if you have unwittingly been tricked by perception into looking in the wrong place? Nobody says that love cannot be experienced and known, even though no words can describe it. In fact we do not need a word to describe the self, because it is self evident. But if it is not self evident to you, then words can be very helpful. A finger pointing at the moon is not the moon. If attention goes in the direction indicated by the finger, the mind will experience and know the moon. If it is properly assimilated, the knowledge contained in a sentence or a group of sentences can destroy ignorance. The implied meaning of a sentence can also give knowledge. Self inquiry does not claim to describe the self, prove the existence of the self, or generate an experience of the self. It is not necessary because consciousness is always present and self evident. But if you allow its words to guide your investigation, they will reveal what is always revealed: “The self, pure awareness, is limitless bliss and unending pleasure. It is beyond the dualities of the mind. It is the is-ness that sees, the is-ness that is known through Vedanta’s statement, ‘You are That.’ It is the one, eternal, pure, unchanging witness of everything. It is beyond experience and the three qualities of nature. I bow to that self, the one that removes ignorance.” Furthermore, awareness is the non-physical “light” that makes experience possible. It is the container of experience and experience is the content. We exist quite happily in deep sleep without experience of objects, but we cannot experience anything without awareness, including the experience of sleep.

In November 2022 I bought my first 5MeO-DMT pen. I vaped 40mg of it and reached a very radical state of consciousness when I woke up for the first time. Don't get me wrong, I had had profound god realizations on shrooms, but they were not so clear and profound. I realized that I'm singular and eternal being. I exist beyond time and space and there is nothing but me. I'm nothing, pure love and magic. Unfortunately, there is no one to explain this to and it's not possible to convey what God is by using words. God can be properly understood only through experience. Anyways, I realized what I really really want as God. I want to be an actor in this movie called life because once you're awake there is nothing else to do. Everything is pointless. Meditation, spiritual teachings and all survival looses its meaning. Which is why I had created myself in the first place. I did it because I wanted to. I love my shitty life and I enjoy creating problems and solving them. I love suffering and pain. That night I realized all of it and re-created myself. The next day when the ego was back I couldn't understand how it's possible that I decided to go back. Ego will never understand why God gives up eternal happiness and bliss for devilry pain and drama. I decided to verify my decision. By October 2023 I've verified that decision at least 10 times. I even filmed God talking to itself. The result is always the same - God wants to play the game. It couldn't care less about ego's suffering and pain or problems. Ego wants salvation and peace, but God simply do not care. You must be wondering why? Well, because life is the illusion. God is just imagining things, nothing really happens to God. I'm going to immerse myself in the illusion really fucking deep, but I will never forget that I'm God nor will there ever be a person who will disprove it. I will come back to psychedelics after 10 years to see if my decion has changed, but I don't think it will be different.

Thank you. I want to remind that in Buddhist system of elements - Mahābhūta - (here probably the western one is used, but there are connections) fire is the element of will, or the heat and energy; water is the element of flow through temporary situations, or of having the round corners. So "through fire and water" might mean flowing with round corners, with personal will or the energy and heat. In the western system of four elements (Aristotle later added fifth, the Aether, corresponding to Space in Buddhism, making the elements worldwide equal more or less - but in some systems we have wood or metal in place of another element) fire is also associated with energy or passion, thus a personal will, and water is associated with emotion and intuition - thus also making us to flow through changing situations. In the Jewish War, by my own intuition, Josephus in the Roma is determined mostly by the fire element, feeling his unique personal mission, which would change the history. The free will or personal will can never work properly if it's not related to Godly mission, or higher idea - the Solar Plexus would be blocked and non-functional -, so the existence of the fire element itself would somehow prove his mission; this feeling is associated with some "Godly guidance" or being in favour of the real-world facts. The word "mission" itself is associated with fire element; it can be personal and unique in the beginning, and then grow big. In modern whichcraft, which also uses the five elements (and is more ethics-based than the old whichcraft, which was prone to excess of personal will), pentagram is associated with each element through it's corners. Sometimes I like whichcraft, but I rather compare it dangerous when related to Buddhism, Christianism or other major religion, as those are models based on modern ethics, whereas whichcraft was originally based on ancient ethics - but this is very important, as ancient ethics gives us archetypes simpler and more easy to see or compare with symbolized physical events and objects; if you go to the end with the ancient symbolics, they are as high as modern religion. It's very good song about the shadows of mind - https://spireason.neocities.org/Yin and Yang in Meditation.pdf in this text I wrote about those shadows, how they appear in our mind, and how they are natural part of life's processes through Dukkha; we cannot avoid them. In the beginning, they get more unhealthy, but as we get more used with working with them, they get more healthy - if you avoid the shadow completely, keeping it out of mind, as some positive thinkers can do, they become underdeveloped and perverted concepts of the real thing and you do not learn to solve conflicts ethically; thus we cannot critizise too much when people are going through shadows; in jewish mythology, they say the it's the day and night of soul, and that you inevitably go through days and nights. This way, jewish is quite developed about shadows. Buddha says that you must watch, in meditation, things coming and going, neutrally - whatever happens; this is sometimes more developed concept than concentrating on bliss and love, which is rather the end result of every process, and the beginning in id phase (before eating from the tree of good and bad, you have the childish version of truth, after going through shadows - or spiritual battles - you develop mature and independent version of the same; religions go through atheism - in the end, they have some conception of higher truth or god again, but they are much more personally responsible; id phase is like living with parents, and superego phase is like living alone, but being friends with parents - the kind of atheism, which later becomes enlightened, is like the ego phase, where you have conflict with your parents and pain of being alone; I'm not saying that atheists, in the end, become believers, but I only say that they develop a high standard of moral and ethics, which is equal to having God or creating it in your life; I am saying that when you are kicked out of your Godly home, the lack of God in all the infinity you see, of theorems and of space, is so strong and the theorem of God is so empty, that your model is atheism even if you have some inner belief in God; so there is an aspect of God being psychological - when you enter the ego phase, start to develop your personality, the initial instincive presence of God will go away and you start to create Godly aspects, like presence of Truth, Love and Civilization in your life, and when these are very strong, you are in free flow as if God exists - but this is equal to creating God subjectively, as the flow of favourable events is equal and it's achieved through the aspects, which are told to be Godly; this way I have transcended the buddhist idea of being beyond existence and non-existence of God - what really exists, is much more complex and involves all God, atheism and things in between, and you haven't really philosophized about God before those start to seem to be one thing; if your karma about God is so bad that you receive nothing, the God would indeed disappear from your whole reality, and the reality you have created does not contain God - and philosophically, this reality without God is as real as any other). In reality without God, the Fire element of free will still only works when the situation is favourable and when it's the real thing, so then you can speak of Will of God. This way, the Jewish War, when you look at the will of Josephus, proves that "God has given Israel to Jews", and this fact is completely unrelated to the conceptions of God existing or not - God is far too complex to exist or not, is the totality of reality, and the atheist laws of nature are also a totality of reality, whereas God's attributes are there positive ends to follow, and in enlightening of culture - the kind of enlightenment which happened with scientific revolution or democratization - the Godly attributes become a part of totality of our reality, thus our subjective state becomes closer to some kind of existence of God, but we remain independent and co-creators. So the appearance of atheism is in the religion, which should see it as well, the case where one stops directly obeying the God and starts looking for a mature, independent, equal relationship with God, and this is where the relationship of child and the father leads as well. This conception of God also explains, why "Gods" of different cultures are different and why they fight about them - this is the process of independence, of subjectivity of God, as it's indeed equal or the same thing we create ourselves with out lives and our Karma. This is very hard to be an atheist and believe in the God at the same time, and this might appear in the end of enlightenment.

As long as you are a human rat you will keep running hunting the carrot..you will chase pleasure and escape from pain..this does not ever change. Even enlightened folks need to eat ,shit ,and fuck..But the difference is that they are deep down aware that its all for nothing at the end . To be in a state of 24/7 bliss and ecstasy is something that does not seem realistic to me . Even Jesus suffered on the cross . This is spiritual nonsense to say the ego will be in bliss. However..the ego is inside bliss . Bliss is the substratum of existence. Its the background of the ego. The ego appears inside this bliss in the background . But the ego will never be blissful eternally .unless you disidentify with the ego completely and identify as bliss ...but that's called death.

Every emotion is the same emotion, bliss disguised as fear sadness happiness peace. Fear is bliss you dont want. When fear comes have faith in God and accept bliss even if you lose your body to get it you will still get it. Your battery runs out and as its running out the emotions disguise themselves but when your battery runs out God comes and fills it up. I want to quit watching pornography I have masturbated millions of times and nothing cool has happened besides feeling bliss for a couple seconds. I wonder if you dont jerk off and do things correctly you will feel like you are orgasiming 24/7 maybe thats what they mean when they say you can live life in infinite bliss. Like your brain feels like its cumming 24/7

@Javfly33 Delightful. Spreading bliss and love like nobody's business, lol. Feeling better now? Well, kindly allow me quote what you wrote earlier: Yeah, that kind of sounds like you are trying to stop the so-called "cycle of reincarnation", wouldn't you say so? Which begs the question: Why do you think that it is necessary to stop something which God has set in motion? Do you think that God is a fucking idiot who doesn't know what he's doing, and now it's up to you to clean up the mess he has created? And what the fuck would be the alternative? You do realize that without form there can be no experience of reality, right? (And please, just stick to answering the questions. Your petulant hissy fits are getting tiresome.)

Do you think Eckhart Tolle is consciouss that the present moment is all that exists, or do you think he had a powerful Awakening that changed his life, but right now, or at least most of the time, he is not consciouss that the Now is the only thing that exists? Trying to make myself an idea of what is POSSIBLE in this work. Just had a non-dual awareness out of the blue and I entered such an euphoric state I can't believe this was actually possible.

I can only tell you my experience. I've been infinite bliss before. (White light environment - Divine love) I've been infinite space before (No dimensions) I've touched infinite sorrow before. (An Ocean of suffering, I didn't immerse myself in it fully) Nothing else existed in those moments. I still observed them happening, but the reality became them, and they were without end. I call them states because I can look at/feel/experience them individually. We don't have to call it states, we can call it everything that existed in that moment. *We can look at this way instead An apple is infinity if that's all which is in focus. It's not all the potential infinity could be. It's the same with anything, and emotions.

Im not talking about an emotional state. Everytime i mention the Word Bliss in this forum there some people that came up saying things like that. Bliss is not an emotional state or a psychological state. Even more, what im implying is Bliss is not a state but the form and quality itself of Consciousness. Wrong. Sorrow is an aberration and distortion of Consciousness. Is Consciousness Being kidnapped by the Mind and ego. It does not work like that. Bliss comes to me, i dont seek It. What fault do i have if i do the right things internally? Just sharing the discoveries as they come.

Any emotional state is infinite. I wouldn't advise seeking a wider spiritual experience with other emotions unless you are very well grounded. I've experienced: Infinite Nothingness. Infinite bliss. Infinite sorrow. All of them were me.

Should I be jealous of someone who seemingly hates is earthly existence so much that he seemingly spends all of his waking hours trying to escape it? That really doesn't sound all too blissful to me. Exactly. So why get lost in conceptual stories about "death" and "empty bliss" and "breaking the cycle of reincarnation" instead of just living in the moment and appreciating the Here and Now as it is? All that there is is THIS. So you either embrace it, or you suffer. I didn't say "just fuck everything", I said "just love everything". Slight difference.

I know it's stupid, but the thought crossed my mind. The ego lashes out against its destruction. The same things can be said for physical pain, no?

Yeah and I thought it's also a bit closer to leo's kind of vision since it doesn't appear to deny the mind as much as other schools of mysticism seem to, I know there are some schools that are supposed to go through intelligence but I haven't personally seen any information about what that is supposed to look like, even if there are some kind of people who might not be considered conventionally intelligent I believe that kind of path might actually suit them pretty well, when I sit in meditation I often find that the sensations that I feel at least in superficial silence are a lot like just like thoughts, for me thoughts are like regular senses they can just be way more chaotic or instead overly serious and limited in unnecessary ways just like the all other sensations, I can feel but not understand completely how every other sensation affects the sensation of thought and vice versa, thoughts just as more capacity to be continually active and voluntary rather than mostly receptive. So thinking ends up being our most detached and flexible sensations at first that slowly get tagged to more material sensations and vice versa which will either cause you suffering or bliss which determines the kind of thoughts that happen less or more frequently and of course how the sensation of thought interacts with the other sensations of your own thoughts which include other people. Of course imagination and thought is pretty much the same thing to me too, you can just say it's more wild.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interdimensional_UFO_hypothesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Vallée Jacques Vallée, Passport to Magonia: From Folklore to Flying Saucers The Multiverse of Infinite Reality with its endless gardens of good & evil. The eddies, vortexes,waves of the appearances of good&evil of the mighty infinite River of Reality are fascinating. And beyond good & evil and angels & demons, rumour has it that even some very fascinating ET-minds in alien ET-dimensions can be accessed. Just more appearances and eddies of appearance on the Infinite River that one truly is, giving the separate-self even more distraction-opportunities in its nearly endless endeavour of chasing its own tail, but who cares... And until the fascination of this wave-surfing is at least partically relaxed, telling about the bliss of dropping into the River and dissolving in it (instead of being endlessly fascinated by the games of its waves/vortexes/appearances) remains that largely futile task of Selling Water by the River ... just tea