BlueOak

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  1. @Sugarcoat Thank you that was reassuring that I wasn't the only one feeling this way. I've always felt like this. I've always ended up stepping out of the role I was in eventually and realising the attachment to it was causing the issues I was facing. Identity does creep into everything yes and then it takes effort to then maintain, which can often interfere with the thing we were trying to do in the first place :D. @Judy2 I appreciate your thoughts, encouragement and empathy I think I need a long break from identity-based conflicts. @Razard86 For me Karma means experience, and experience generates more experience/karma. So we go on infinitely while attached to identity. It's a problem when the identity itself is why you can't get something done. It divides us up and puts boundaries in the way, all the time, in everyone. Let's do a few Examples Example One: You want to run a great business, you do so for a number of years. Someone attacks your identity of being a great business owner who offers value, you feel the need to defend it. That is a complete and utter waste of energy most of the time, unless it's going to publicly ruin your reputation, but you still feel compelled to do it back and forth in email chains, even giving refunds and extra credit, because you've taken on that identity and it hurts when it's damaged. This could happen at a job, and now you feel what you've built there over time is threatened, so you feel threatened, emotions run. I left my last job because I really cared about it lol, I formed an identity around being hard-working, reliable, and pleasant. When I was blindsided by someone above me I didn't see a way of working with them. I felt I was almost put on trial because she felt her own identity threatened, and she was anxious about it, I couldn't work for someone who felt anxious in their own role/identity, because working for her made me the same. A step further, you might be running a great service, but someone else hears this about this attack on your identity, and so doesn't do business with you. You lose a client. All over nothing. Maybe because you were 'not born from that city' or some other superfluous identity-based argument or reasoning. My Own Example Two: I used to work in alternative health and therapies for about 8 years, and my entire purpose there was to put people in touch with the right specialist or product they needed. We had about 6 regular therapists and about 20 total, so a broad spectrum. Often, it was when people couldn't get the results they wanted with the doctor, because GP general practitioner doctors here don't use things like nutrition/diet or ongoing physical therapy all that often to heal a problem. So I developed an identity around being an alternative health provider and diagnosing initial symptoms. My mother's health has been getting a lot worse recently. She's lost a lot of weight, appetite, and has a bad taste in her mouth, blocked throat, with stomach problems. I don't remember half of what I knew then, but offered what I could, and then kept insisting she see a specialist as soon as possible. We have specialists on the NHS here, that are qualified medical professionals in a specialized field. So it's not an alternative, but it is a step up from a GP's level of knowledge. For me it's very useful when the regular the GP, general practitioner, we see at first hasn't the expertize to diagonse you. Another member of the family stepped in and said what do I know, how often do I use the NHS. I do/will use the NHS when I can't diagnose myself and have always found specialists beneficial. However this put an identity barrier that I had to then argue about first in the way of getting my mother the specialist care she needed, and turned her off the idea. Thankfully eventually the doctor recommended she see a specialist anyway, so by luck she got there as things got more serious. But this stuff happens all the time, in business, sports, politics, etc, people get an identity for one thing ,then it blocks them from even doing something else, or giving advice on something else. Example Twitter: I don't use twitter, ever. Have you seen the identity fights going on twitter and the enormous waste of time/energy that it takes to maintain them? Its like a black hole where identities go to die. Its all people discuss on most media channels too or social media most of the time. When reality TV first started (showing my age ) I never knew why I hated the idea of it so much, I mean its just a TV program who cares, but its because almost all of it was discussing/defending/attacking self-created or show-created identities. Example Cults of Personality or Branding Identities formed for a task or to achieve something, even just sell a brand. I won't go into this but you get the idea, they do a heck of a lot of harm to impressionable minds, and form a barrier in the way of greater understanding of a product or the results of a test, experience, or self and group reflection. Constantly getting in the way of necessary improvements or restructuring inside a company or civil service. *Oh and I've had now TWO sets of aunt/uncles that won't leave their home to go into assisted living because of the strong identities they've formed around having a house and being independent. All of them have had extremely bad experiences as a result of this, I won't go into too much detail but a lot of suffering was/is involved.
  2. Thank you . Aside from minor things which appeared everywhere, there was an ongoing medical condition in the family that someone brought up a specific identity dispute in the middle of, which infuriated me because it had the potential to block the care someone else in the family needed, that was about one of three large arguments in a week on similar subjects. All of them highlighting identity. Ultimately I have to learn that even if I love someone, repetition of a viewpoint isn't enough to convince a person of solutions to even critical health needs. It worked out by luck, but it was one more reminder that hitting my head against walls gets nowhere. I wouldn't ever use ready as a term, because that means I think my perspective ahead of someone else. Every perspective is happening at the same time, and if society is going one way in a large group, why would I keep talking or doing things the majority of it doesn't want to see/hear. I am no better than anyone else and my perspective isn't more correct than anyone else's. It's not an oh woe is me post, it's an acknowledgment that the majority are where the majority want to be, and nothing changes or stays changed without their doing so. Spiritual people used to say it was going against or with the stream, I used to ignore that saying but I can't anymore because I can't unsee the truth of my lifetime. Stagnation is impossible because as the collective changes we do to. Even if we are dragged along. The only choice I see is to go with it willingly or not.
  3. Appreciate the thoughts thank you. Of it being natural and unavoidable to an extent. It gives me another understanding of why more spiritual people do detach themselves or take a step back, I think it extends the length of time you can be in a role or identity. I had a couple of weeks of just near constant arguments from different directions, around identity to the point I needed a break and a pep talk Why would I do something that nobody wanted? That would only be for me. As far as I have ever been able to tell I never had a live path defined in that way. To learn to deal with things like uncertainty, humility, powerlessness, abuse etc. I've always been the person that argued anyway, that saw something was more effective, or more helpful, might heal someone, and just done it, despite the arguments or the resistance. I think that is selfish, no matter if it helps someone. I can't just be an individual making choices about what's best or how best to solve a problem. If people want to experience something different who am I to say otherwise, I've been too singleminded and brash in this lifetime. I agree this a better way of looking at it. I do obsess with the results still, of all things. Anything you could name, from the smallest inconsequential thing you'd laugh at, to the biggest life-defining thing. For values, if I question your values, doesn't that question you in the same way? Aren't identities just sets of values and beliefs? Values shift, morality shifts, even focus shifts subtly so things become less important, or not valued in the same way, even hated or despised over time. Appreciate the words thank you all.
  4. When I woke up I realised I needed to add something to this, because its not totally out of our control: "Most People’s Lives are a Direct Reflection of the Expectations of Their Peer Group." Tony Robbins Something I agree with. If you make your peer group all people (or a large group you interact with), because we are all people, you generally are moved back to a center point over time. I understand some spiritual people say we shift realities, but for me if we do they are within a certain band of experience. This is another way of describing the quote above. The other day I removed myself from all political discussions online, all social discussions, all talks on the war, all spiritual groups, even most reaction channels i'd been watching to leave barebones few technical groups. I had resolved to leave this forum too, but I wanted to make my last posts something more positive or at least constructive. To bring this full circle this is what I mean about identities interfering with life, and yet I haven't been able to invest time in something, without developing a care for that thing, and an identity soon to follow.
  5. I used to believe so and that was part of my identity. I now believe this only happens when other people are already open to changing and changing too. It's a collective effort to do anything meaningful and it only lasts if the collective is already becoming that which you change into.
  6. Absolutely. I think it depends on the therapist, but most people benefit at the least from having an attentive but completely neutral voice in the room to speak to. Sadly they are all miles out of my price range :D, I am broke and living on the poverty line. Its the old saying many of those who need therapy can't afford it, but they need it to hold down a decent job to be able to afford it. As an aside, not being able to afford help is part of why society is slow to change and stagnated, 'people never change' to me translates to, its much easier to change if most people around you are already at a point, and collectively changing, rather than doing so solo. So I do self-analysis like this, and try to find common patterns I see and adjust them, either consciously by choice, or unconsciously by repetition to something better. Apart from feeling energy, I lack all wider spiritual perspectives, I know all life is spiritual and speaking to me every waking moment, but I don't even recall 99.9% of my dreams now, my spiritual connections are shot, so this forum can afford a wider perspective I lack. I really want to be able to be invested in the next job I try to do for example, without feeling attached to the identity of that job, or some larger identity that's associated with it. Maybe that is impossible and I want to both have my cake and eat it.
  7. I have a problem where I begin to care or get invested in something, or a relationship (of any kind), and form an identity based on that job, hobby, relationship, career or even country. If I pull back from the identity I find myself being ambivalent about the subject, and trying to rid myself of its association. One solution is a macro identity around several subjects, which gives me some distance, but that eventually will be questioned or exposed as flawed, as all identities eventually are. I struggle to redefine the identity when its threatened, or move away from it and abandon the subject entirely. This is either still from a pattern of abuse I haven't resolved, and coping mechanisms which have arisen, or natural done by caring about something. I've never asked any of you if you attach identities to things in this way, and then feel they need defending or boundaries reinforcing when they are threatened. I feel this is a huge green spot that's at the root of many arguments I have, seek out, or am attracted to.
  8. This is also a common narcs response to dismiss another's reaction as unimportant, lesser, or incorrect. You can't moderate how others respond. Its been a helpful demonstration as the original post was highlighting that anyone is capable of narcissistic patterns.
  9. Not surprised. Its what narcs do. They can dehumanize people insult them, have little empathy or feeling. All the time feeling disconnected or above what's going on. In this case your attempt to moderate someone's else's conversation and assume control of it. All the time thinking themselves smug and superior. Having dealt with narcs most of my life I should have spotted your pattern.
  10. Let's reflect this back line for line. I sure as hell didn't ask for your comment either yet you made it. Its called conversation. Your comment is beyond stupid. You sum people up in a couple of lines like you know anything about them. You are being holier than thou in every post you make. You are assigning meaning to my words that wasn't there, making continued assumptions and additions to support your own point of view. I don't know anyone's state of consciousness from a forum post. You seem to in your own arrogance feel free to sit there in judgment insulting people for your own amusement. What does that say about you?
  11. How can I put it into clearer terms. Its like I would have to be putting myself down or think one part of me was superior to the other. Everything is a link in chain for everything else. Everyone's perspective here is necessary, There isn't one wasted or meaningless view given. There is no hierarchy, no superiority. No matter how much I hate/love them or am triggered/supported by them outwardly, Every judgement, every insult, every friendly comment or bit of support. I understand every single thing I see, hear or view is part of the whole.
  12. Wow. Nowhere did the post say that at all. Nor would I ever say to anyone, because I am referencing parts of myself when I do so. People are complicated and there is no easy way to sum them up in a few sentences. Whenever I do that I am hating on parts of myself or the reactions I have. My post was an attempt in simple terms to stay out of saying trump is good or bad for once, and point people generally to look at the trump aspect in themselves, or what he represents in the collective as a whole. I understand this is incredibly difficult for people, thankfully I have some distance to it, not living with it only the after-effects. Whatever I triggered in you I apologize but take a look at yourself before lashing out.
  13. Welcome! @Micca Yes that's what a lot of music is about. A lot of the time i'd break it down to: Finding an identity. Hope, when you are younger and hear yourself in song it validates some of your life experiences. Breaking the status quo or convention, which music does in its continued evolution, but there are big jumps sometimes when new genres come into fashion. These new genres bring new fashions, behaviors, a new feel to the music, a new group identity that people seek out. It feels good when you have things in common that you enjoy with a large group of people. Fun when fun is needed. Breaking down of class divides, or other identities to have a common ground. Here are some documentaries. Before punk we had the Mods Culture which I know very little about, before them there were the rockers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mod_(subculture) Here are two Rave Documentaries. This first one is excellent. Acid House, these videos talk about giving people an identity and fun in a time without much fun. They mentions it being a product of thatcher's culture and the way she changed the culture to be more capitalist, but at the same time still being based around rebellion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_house After raves and acid house had passed. There were various evolutions of house music, I can't remember all the genre names. Back to basics was a night run in Leeds and a few other places. Never any trouble, great time. In early 2000's it was the cutting edge of music, and if you are studying music history, in the late 90's early 2000's for England when the races too were broken up by police, it's the thing to name for house music. Hope it gives you some breadcrumbs to follow or adds some context. All the best.
  14. Mine was not a value judgment post. 1) You frame it this way because you are categorizing you and trump as just two separate entities, rather than you reacting to yourself, and the meaning/emotion you assign to the words you hear and actions you see. 2) Having an emotional or intellectual reaction doesn't mean your reaction was not beneficial/appropriate for you personally, or a wider collective. If you want me to add labels, it doesn't mean to say a reaction is good/bad, helpful/unhelpful etc only that you are having it. This can come from unrealized parts of yourself but it can also come from parts you are aware of to some degree, often there is more there to see/feel/understand, which is why we are experiencing a situation. Life doesn't tend to put things in front of us that are unhelpful to our development, even if we really hate them. If I were to question your experience of it, I would be falling into the trap I spoke of. I can only show you that all reactions, come from you, no matter what anyone does, all of it is from you.
  15. 40 Degrees at most times in england is simply going to be death on a large scale due to humidity. There is no other way to put it. This was not because it was dry African air. *When I say large scale I mean a % of the population for clarity.