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The problem with referring to enlightenment as binary is reflected in so many “I’m enlightened now” posts. One can mistake the void, the nothingness, the meaninglessness, the visceral oneness, the “seeing” of relativity, the revealing of the illusion, etc, for “it”. The danger with this binary message is they go no further, because these experiences liberate from the material paradigm, and sure seem to be the pinnacle, never having actually experienced the absolute, the only self, the being, the love that all is. Then, sure, it is binary. But that verbiage is not worth the trouble it gives one on the path. And still, there are no ends nor beginnings, so all is an end and a beginning.

Nono, I mixed up my post before editing correctly When I talked about Adyashanti, he talked about different types of awakenings. You could experience infinite (heart) but no nothingness (mind) (or vice versa). The way he phrased it was that you could be enlightened from the mind for a long time (so you only see that reality has no substance and you are it), then you open your heart and experience infinity too (divine love and deep connection with everything you interact). It corroborate with what Rali from Naked Reality said in multiple videos. @Shanmugam Doesn't answer my question though

@MarkusSweden Because 5-MeO is the Grand Pappy of psychedelics. It shows you the most holistic picture, the most complete, the most nondual. The pure Godhead. It is so mindblowing it blows everything else out of the way. Yes, to your ego-mind "Nothingness" doesn't sound cool or flashy. But that's only because you have no idea yet what Nothingness really is. It's the opposite of what you think. If you think seeing aliens is cool, wait till you see Absolute Infinity.

Just my opinion, these are all concepts to me as I'm not enlightened and have no authority to present this as truth. Disclaimer over! According to buddhism, once you attain nirvana there is no more reincarnation or karma. So you are actually correct, that is a contradiction, because reincarnation is the form we take, once you realize you aren't the form, it isn't that there is no reason to incarnate, you just aren't that, you aren't the form, the form appears to you, but is not you. Once you realize who you are, if "you" (ego) goes away, and there the true you stays, you know who you are, eternal, limitless, timeless. The cycle of birth and death is over, karma is over, if you realize you are what everything arises too, it's over. I believe form is the conduit for realizing you aren't that. How could nothingness know itself without form? Formlessness needs the form to realize itself, and form needs formlessness to exist. No thing can exist, can stand on it's own, without the space for it to exist in. Tolle has called it space consciousness, or just being more aware of space (formlessness) instead of just form. This is why buddhism uses the phrase "emptiness" a lot and they say the true nature of reality is indeed emptiness. When I started on a path a while back this was morbidly depressing, but I was totally missing the point. You can t have one without the other.

So one master today told me that sometimes he experiences sudden samadhis which are something like and probably is mahasamadhis, that feels like he is just out of body somewhere, but then he comes backs after several minutes or hours. It’s not final mahasamdhi, but no different from that, only diff is that it continues for several minutes or hours and might come suddenly without signals. so probably that can explain it. I think what Sadhguru meant by difficulty of staying in the body is that enlightened person might sometimes experience sudden hits of mahasamadhi that are not up to him. This is not final leaving but feels just like that. It’s like body is becoming left, but that process stops once you able to come back. That’s actually one reason (that master’s theory) why many of enlightened gurus like Ramana, Osho, and Krishnamurti and many others died from cancer and other long-term deceases. During that samadhis your body starts slowly dying (that’s also what that master’s body seem to feel like after he comes back from samadhi). So initial awakenings and realisations can actually have very healthy effect on body and mind, they can even cure cancer and there are such cases. Coz these are quite natural states for living organism. But that permanently infinite enlightenment which great gurus had might actually kick your health in the butt because your body simply isn’t prepared for that kind of stuff, see even Sadhguru who is trained yogi struggled with that. You probably need to be very prepared physically. Although it might not be the case for everyone, I dunno. Interesting thing is that I don’t think that Osho, Sadhguru and defo that master of mine and many other great teachers had the final enlightenment which Buddha talked about. They all certainly had some big big unbounded oneness and nothingness enlightenment, but it’s probably wasn’t the final one coz Buddha said (or at least Buddhism says) that his teachers had this unbounded infinite space and consciousness and yet it wasn’t the final thing. So what can that imply is that mahasamadhi probably can be possible long prior the final final enlightenment. And maybe not. But that master of mine certainly isn’t in Buddhahood, yet his stage is already quite a burden for his body’s health because of this sudden strikes, although it’s not a problem for him, his energy or his happiness coz he clearly sees that he isn’t the body. However, after the initial awakenings, where he saw that he isn’t his self-image, his lung cancer has been cured without treatment (that’s no joke). When thought and emotion isn’t fixated on the place of decease, organism have capacity to cure itself, you just don’t need to interrupt it with your ego. But again this seems to not be enough when you are unbounded oneness, that’s something brain and body can’t understand, I guess from this misunderstanding sudden unexpected mahasamadhi can happen.

What about the infinite hell you just stated exists within the nothingness? It is an infinite experience of suffering for which there is no room to transcend experience.

@jpablos16 “Nothingness” is the same as “Allness”. Everything or nothing are just subjective names for the “Oneness”. PS: Se nota que eres hispanoparlante .

Life feels like an empty void to me and I’m just counting the days until the enternal sleep in the end. I have nothing that I desire to do, mostly just habits that carry themselves out. There is no deep desire that I long for like being a musician, an artist, or a dancer, nothing that was a dream I had that got sidelined. It seems that no matter what I do or attempt it all just feels empty in the end, the crushing weight of nothingness around me. I don’t have dreams to follow like other people, I feel like a cold machine just moving around. I feel disconnected from the people around me who have things to live for and achieve. Some days I long for a mechanical body to fit what my soul is like.

@Thanatos13 The space of nothingness has no self, no fear, no suffering, no frustration, no despair, no power, no control. From it surfaces alive-ness, which then disappears back into the emptiness. No-thing and every-thing. Fresh snow suddenly appeared here. Off to go cross country skiing with a dear friend. . .

Point is, you realize it is nothing. When turning inward and becoming aware of your unconscious reactions to the different sensations and experience it as itself rather than for you (as the surviving entity you think you are). To become pure awareness without seeing the world from a survival perspective, or through the lens of concepts. Problem is that there is really no word or concept that ultimately describes what consciousness or awareness actually is, just because they are not it. Maybe there is nothingness without awareness or consciousness... but not now. Now is now, even if there was nothing, there would still be now. But now is not you, or me... let me try this: one could say that consciousness is absolutely nothing. Who said that consciousness is something? Only we, humans did. What if it's the basement for everything, being it "nothing" or "something". We tend to assume that consciousness is something that is added on top of nothing, without thinking that maybe it is the basis for everything, including nothing; that consciousness is more fundamental than "nothing at all", itself. Like I said, awareness can't be eliminated, because it is just now. That's what it comes down to; now. Take it away, and it would still be now. Now can't be eliminated.

This tells me that you might not have the precise idea what Enlightenment is. You don’t eliminate any of those you mentioned. On the contrary you become one with everything and realise that all of these you mentioned are made out of you - the pure awareness. Why do you make this assumption? Why can’t there be nothingness without awareness or consciousness? Try not to take anything for granted when exploring for the Truth.

Here you infer that you still exist. What if no you and nothing at all exists? You are trying to explain it with circular reasoning... Again why do you take it as granted that smth should be experienced at all. Why? Why do you infer that there should be time in any form? What if there is nothing at all. No consciousness, no time, no manifestation, no you, no onnes, no god. Absolute zero - absolute nothingness.

It could be debated (and already has been by some) that deep sleep is "nothingness", but states have touched this body that are deeper. 1.) Jhana in full Commentarial Absorbtion. Source: Hard Jhana/full relative time stop/direct consciousness in personal practice. Secondary source: Visuddhimagga/Vimuttimagga, and other individuals alive now (anecdotal) such as Ajahn Brahm for example. This is deeper than "deep sleep" delta waves, since in deep sleep one's body can have contact at the ear sense door, and awaken from slumber. In Absorption one is fully disconnected from "mind" and the 5 sense doors, including hearing. Most markedly, from the standpoint of an outside observer, the body barely takes in breath and is basically comatose. Otherwise it doesn't qualify for commentarial Jhana. This isn't even to mention Nirodha Samapatti, which I won't even unpack here. 2.) Nibbana, defined this time as the cessation of all formations (not just mental, but those found at Contact with the 5 bodily Aggrigates). Personal practice source: Annica 3 doors experience, body skips like a flat rock against VOID. Things really are quite simple, but if we try and simplify them too much in concept, it's just gibberish and folks get confused and waste time in fear and traps, or more tragic forms of ridiculous do-er-ship. Ramana mentioned in his collected works that deep sleep was a time when the world was gone, but he *may* not have realized that the substrate "I-I" was an impermanence wave that comes and goes. In any case, the Buddha gave a much more exhaustive and useful treatment of these issues with his elucidation of the 4 noble truths and particularly the 3 Lakhanas of conditioned existence. I don't mention these states and terms in order to be literal or fundamentalist, but if we do practice/yoga, self-inq. whatever, then we have to come up with a consistant language in which to communicate our efforts. Without that, it's a bunch of idiots pasting ridiculous pictures at each other and spinning in content. Uh oh! Snap.

Unfortunately emptiness and “no self” isn’t truth. It never was. That’s just a trick we tell ourselves. We attempt to strip everything away to get to “truth” because we think that is what truth is. But it’s not. When all is gone and you swim in nothingness without fear you see it isn’t the truth, it’s just another view. The same thing with ego, just another view. We seek “it” but there is no guarantee of finding it or knowing what it looks like. We use our sense but even that is flawed. Mots like looking at a video game and seeing colored lights blinking, or at a movie and just seeing actors, you don’t see the reality. Stripping it all alway doesn’t get you truth or the absolute, just a different lens to look through. But we are so convinced that the lens is correct instead of seeing it for what it is. To say reality is empty is wrong. Whatever “reality” really is, we won’t ever see it, just different views of it.

Stay with that emptiness..that’s a sign that there is discontent with everything that thought has put together. U see the narrow superficial structure of thought and are not compelled to react to it because you see it’s limits and its shallow nature. Most people escape that discontent into some-thing that fills that void. That’s why one never gets that immeasurable state of nothingness. They are afraid to remain empty and therefore fill that space of fear with some form/projection of thought which they think will bring a sense of security psychologically. If you stay with that sorrow, loneliness, and fear and let it play out by not reacting ‘suppression or control’ you will see that it will start to fade. So don’t escape that emptiness. Any movement to escape is a movement of will that seeks psychological security witch only leads to disorder and prepetual conflict. Simply let conciousness empty all its contents being your fears, pleasures, desires, beliefs, and so on. By not fueling those reactions with your desire/will remain with that discontentment and don’t try to escape. Either way you can’t escape anyhow because you are not different from those desires. Once u see that fact you will remain in conflict because the reason for this conflict is the result of the division through thought that there is a difference between “you” the controller and that which you desire to control. There is no division. This seperate you is where the confusion and conflict manifests. Do you see this? I would start off by not asking others for anything, because how do you known they know? Listening to others assumptions, opinions, and ideas about what they think they know and what you don’t is never going to be any help. So don’t listen to anyone and don’t take what they suggest as any form of truth, this includes myself??‍♂️. Because truth can not be maintained by any thought/thinker/self. If you stay with that emptiness and all the conditioning and it’s content dissolves by seeing that reaction, suppression/control solves nothing, there will no longer be a self “who reacts” or that clings to that conditioning/content to sustain a state of security. Therefore no movement of will to resist what is. The resistance of what is is where the conflict arises. Only when the self is not truth is. Only in emptiness is there an essence or quality of truth. Just do your own thing friend

@Thanatos13 It's a farse! It's a lie! It's nothingness! it's pointless, meaningless, and futille! All of this is lie, the love and hate you have for others is a farse, your memories hold no water, your friends aren't real, it is pure emptiness with nothing to truly justify it. Even your despair is a lie, how can you not see that, you are playing a character who thinks he has gotten there and is seeing the horror, the twist is there is no character and there is nothing to see here! If I got a penny for each time Irony was present in this forum I could buy Leo a wig and mildly convince him to wear it Look, i'm not defending psycs, but what makes you think your experience is any more real than the drugs? Sure, it feels like despair, but by your own logic...do I even need to finish?

@Thanatos13 You undermined yourself, shot yourself in the foot, long ago, and now you are feeling the effects of it. You fell for some philosophy about this “nothingness” this “void”. All you have to do, is admit to yourself, that you have not actually ever experienced this “nothingness” this “void”. You constructed an idea of it in your head, and you are believing that idea. It’s just an idea, it holds no value, no weight, and it is FLAT OUT WRONG. What’s you have missed, because you have not experienced the “void” for yourself, is that it is not a void of nothingness. It is SO much more than that. Can you admit this error to yourself though? That’s the only question. When you do, you’ll be free of it. Then, day by day, things will get better. Be wrong. It’s deliciously liberating. Choose yourself, choose you happiness... who cares about being right? Thinking you’re right that it’s all this meaningless void of nothingness - that’s just some bullshit you got from some shithead, it’s unequivocally wrong. When a master refers to God as Nothing, it is because they have experienced God, and they know what you do not. Don’t mistake their meaning for “Nothing” to be your meaning for “Nothing”. Before you type and spout off about how right you are about your nihilism, just pause for like literally one minute first. A MINUTE, that’s all I’m asking. I know you got a minute bro. This path you’re on blows dude. It fucking blows. It’s taken you straight into the depression. I know this because I did the same exact thing. You’re doing it, and it feels terrible because you think it’s the fault of the reality you are in. It’s not. It’s your fault. Stop bullshitting yourself. Begin to free your mind instead. There is a man on youtube named Les Brown. Just sit and listen to him. You can do this. You can do anything you want. You just need a little help in seeing this is already the case. Want for yourself man. You deserve to be happy, you deserve joy in your heart, you are worthy of everything. Whole Universe got your back, all you have to do is take one step.

No, only you babe. If the body drops dead, all perceptions would cease and the world would disappear -- I would assume. What actually happens after the body dies is technically unknown until you get there. There could very well be bardo states, etc. From my current understanding, upon physical death you will merge into absolute infinity. But I could be wrong. There might a sort of reflection period where you get to integrate all the lessons you've learned in your life. I sort of expect that. But this is just my best guess. The point of enlightenment is that you disidentify with the body, the world, and all perceptions. You realize you are Nothingness, and so after that, you no longer really care if the body and world disappear. In the same way that you don't really worry about getting a haircut because you know you're not your hair. Good for him. The problem is, for you, everything he says is still hearsay. You do not know what he knows. And you do not know if all of his knowledge is accurate or if it will apply to your life. He did his journey from scratch. And so should you. The problem with following great people is that you start to blindly accept everything they say. This is especially problematic with Sadhguru because he's clearly so realized. But that doesn't help you! That opens you up to the trap of dogma and belief. The key to this entire path is independent critical thinking. You can't trust any authority figure. There are no authorities. You have to become your own authority.

@Vingger Words hold no meaning, only distinctions from other words, we assign meanings (loop), we are makers of distinctions. . It can be helpful, to see that the illusion is all of one fabric, so to speak, so that which is not relative (absolute) shines light on the inherent short comings of nihilism: According to Derrida and taking inspiration from the work of Ferdinand de Saussure,[14] language as a system of signs and words only has meaning because of the contrast between these signs.[15][13]:7, 12 As Rorty contends, "words have meaning only because of contrast-effects with other words...no word can acquire meaning in the way in which philosophers from Aristotle to Bertrand Russell have hoped it might—by being the unmediated expression of something non-linguistic (e.g., an emotion, a sense-datum, a physical object, an idea, a Platonic Form)".[15] As a consequence, meaning is never present, but rather is deferred to other signs. Derrida refers to the—in this view, mistaken—belief that there is a self-sufficient, non-deferred meaning as metaphysics of presence. A concept, then, must be understood in the context of its opposite, such as being/nothingness, normal/abnormal, speech/writing, etc.[16][17]:26 Further, Derrida contends that "in a classical philosophical opposition we are not dealing with the peaceful coexistence of a vis-a-vis, but rather with a violent hierarchy. One of the two terms governs the other (axiologically, logically, etc.), or has the upper hand": signified over signifier; intelligible over sensible; speech over writing; activity over passivity, etc. The first task of deconstruction would be to find and overturn these oppositions inside a text or a corpus of texts; but the final objective of deconstruction is not to surpass all oppositions, because it is assumed they are structurally necessary to produce sense. The oppositions simply cannot be suspended once and for all. The hierarchy of dual oppositions always reestablishes itself. Deconstruction only points to the necessity of an unending analysis that can make explicit the decisions and arbitrary violence intrinsic to all texts.[17]:41 Finally, Derrida argues that it is not enough to expose and deconstruct the way oppositions work and then stop there in a nihilistic or cynical position, "thereby preventing any means of intervening in the field effectively".[17]:42 To be effective, deconstruction needs to create new terms, not to synthesize the concepts in opposition, but to mark their difference and eternal interplay. This explains why Derrida always proposes new terms in his deconstruction, not as a free play but as a pure necessity of analysis, to better mark the intervals. Derrida called undecidables—that is, unities of simulacrum—"false" verbal properties (nominal or semantic) that can no longer be included within philosophical (binary) opposition, but which, however, inhabit philosophical oppositions—resisting and organizing it—without ever constituting a third term, without ever leaving room for a solution in the form of Hegelian dialectics (e.g., différance, archi-writing, pharmakon, supplement, hymen, gram, spacing).[17]:19 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deconstruction

@egoless Hi Friend, You do See that Your Idea Of Infinity Is Simply A Finite Concept. Absolute ZERO And Absolute Nothingness Are One And The Same. If You Get What the Word Means. Absolute Infinity Is Beyond The Concept Of Intellectual Understanding. It Is Even Beyond The Nature Of The Intellect. It's the TRUTH Which Is Truly EVERYTHING Beyond Everything. So Now Is That Clear To You?? RIN. RIN. RIN.

The funny thing is that in nothingness there is no-one left to be afraid. Source: deep sleep

Consider the fact that you experience the nothingness of consciousness without an object every time you sleep.

Yeah i have noticed this insight. That wanting to be happy is the number 1 source of suffering for me. Through acknowledging and accepting your true selfish nature and being ok with it allows you to be as selfless as you possibly could be. Whilst they contradict each other they are bound together by love, you must love yourself first to be able to properly love others. A voice in my head, not so much a voice but something told me as i was meditating before experiencing nothingness, "i must not want to be better" I then let go and This seems counter intuitive because you are trying to aim for something for someone. Inside and outside. Having an inside automatically assumes there must be an inside and vice verse. They are so dependent on one another they might as well be one thing. Which then kind of invalidates their meaning.

I have been having recurring dreams of what i believe to be experiencing of nothingness. It usually starts off taking acid or mushrooms. I always trip, and it's always attributed with fear and anxiety. Since the last and first time i experienced nothingness, i later was able to relate that experience to this recurring dream i was having. Throwing away everything you have known to love and hate can be very frightening, ultimately beautiful but the process before pushing through the threshold i experience fear and panic attacks. Regarding the process before becoming nothingness my mind offered plenty resistance in fear and in panic attacks . And this process has been integrating itself into my dreams. Before the dreams were pure terror and ineffable, they still are ineffable in the fact it is nothingness but i am able to bring back some forms of understanding that can point to what i experienced. When i experience the recurring state in my dream it is extremely disorienting, completely dizzying, non stop dizzying. It used to be attached to fear and anxiety but that is slowly changing. It's as if I'm trying to comprehend nothingness with dizzying proportions as I'm funneling through time from moment to moment. Filtering out the past or future (that i'm aware are concepts at a behavioural level-won't act on them, simply observe). Kknowing them to be a fable contrived and arbitrary as you are swallowed up in all the happening of the moment. I can't help but feel the sense of despair as it really feels like I'm throwing my life away. This is what holds the fear, so i do have some feelings that don't leave. Interpretation is the opposite of being nothingness as you are putting a fable to nothing. Everything seems baseless, and this i know excites me as i am limitless, but it also frightens me. I wake up knowing i understood something that i do not in my waking that transcended somehow the fear. I have moments of grasping then forgetting, 2 or 3 times a week. This always comes in the form of my dreams. I would appreciate any thoughts, help or guidance with this if you think you can help. Appreciate you's.

How do we evaluate and using which mechanisms of logic do we validate or discard the presented reality? The answer is that we don't, we can't there is no separation between being and it's evaluation, You are yourself precisely as a consequence of evaluation. You cannot exist if these two elements were separable, When one thing becomes the mirror of the other unity emerges. By evaluation here i mean the broader and more abstract form of it, the way we see that life is a series of decisions based on making distinctions, And evaluation is the process of arbitrarily putting labels of descriptive information and value on nothing. You think it's only being and you've made and evaluation, You think it's all evaluation and you've made a mistake. You're neither, God is in a category of it's own he slips from nothingness by being no thing and in the same time slips from everything by also being no thing. That is the only category Get a grip on the real world Throw a rock at your stagnant self, Announce the revolution. What are you but transformation ? Collect yourself and remember That without aim you are all potential yet none And that with one you become one. You think you see the rose? You are the rose You think you are the rose ? You're nothing, an after glow A Fragrence There is only the rose Blooming expression.