Leo featured in suicide cult article

[AdeptusPsychonautica]

14 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

They seem delusional to you because you fundamentally don't understand how spirituality works. So you lack a larger context for some of the radical things I have said. That which your mind cannot fathom, that which is beyond your direct experience, you call "delusional" because that's the only way your mind knows how to make sense of reality.

@Leo Gura

Ah I see. Its a good thing that you have all this background about me, and what I do and don't know. I imagine that's very handy that you can simply call upon that knowledge to make statements about people, you know - rather than dealing with the inconvenience of facts and reality. But hey, if you prefer to fantasize a backstory for me then knock yourself out - whatever helps.
 

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You also are not taking into account the raw nature of my trip reports. Things are reported as they occurred for me without polishing them up for critics and the spiritually clueless. There is a difference between a formal teaching vs a report of profound awakenings happening as I go through the process and describe the process as it feels and occurs for me while in the midst of it.

I do, I have, we have talked about this before, and there is a world of difference between talking about a trip report like experience which is "in the moment", and the sort of stuff I criticised you for. Now if that REALLY is your answer, then you could simply have said so 2 years ago and the topic would have ended there.

"Hi everyone its Leo! I recently made a video where I (paraphrasing) talked about being the most enlightened being who has existed in the history of this planet, and that I had been given special abilities by the universe which can cure all diseases and ailments, along with other paranormal abilities. Man I was really high, I got a bit lost in my own ego, and none of that stuff was intended to be taken literally. Apologies for the mixed messages - lets get back to the real work!"

Wouldn't that have worked much better at defusing critics like me rather than this sulky knee-jerk reaction of "[inset name here] is a stupid troll who understands nothing"? I mean if you are acknowledging that these statements you made are just "in the moment" utterances then I have no problem with that at all, and if that's the case then why so defensive about it?

Its almost like your ego (and its followers) cannot handle actual criticism ?

Just to be transparent I think its plainly obvious that the "I'm leaving" video which I often reference as a source was not intended as an "in the moment" psychedelic process type video. Its like watching a manifesto of someone making (what they believe) is objective facts, peppered throughout with statements validating exactly that. I honestly think you would be better off just disowning such content in a manner like I gave above, acknowledging that the criticism was indeed justified, and putting it behind you - rather than dragging it on by insisting upon there being some hate campaign against you by malicious trolls.

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, AdeptusPsychonautica said:

@Leo Gura

Ah I see. Its a good thing that you have all this background about me, and what I do and don't know. I imagine that's very handy that you can simply call upon that knowledge to make statements about people, you know - rather than dealing with the inconvenience of facts and reality. But hey, if you prefer to fantasize a backstory for me then knock yourself out - whatever helps.

I can easily tell from your talking and your own trip reports your level of consciousness and understanding of spiritual truths, or lack thereof.

So I don't need your life story.

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I do, I have, we have talked about this before, and there is a world of difference between talking about a trip report like experience which is "in the moment", and the sort of stuff I criticised you for. Now if that REALLY is your answer, then you could simply have said so 2 years ago and the topic would have ended there.

"Hi everyone its Leo! I recently made a video where I (paraphrasing) talked about being the most enlightened being who has existed in the history of this planet, and that I had been given special abilities by the universe which can cure all diseases and ailments, along with other paranormal abilities. Man I was really high, I got a bit lost in my own ego, and none of that stuff was intended to be taken literally. Apologies for the mixed messages - lets get back to the real work!"

Wouldn't that have worked much better at defusing critics like me rather than this sulky knee-jerk reaction of "[inset name here] is a stupid troll who understands nothing"? I mean if you are acknowledging that these statements you made are just "in the moment" utterances then I have no problem with that at all, and if that's the case then why so defensive about it?

It's not so simple. They were not just in the moment utterances. Profound truths were communicated to you which went over your head because you are more interested in critique and nitpicking than understanding how consciousness works.

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 rather than dragging it on by insisting upon there being some hate campaign against you by malicious trolls.

You're not a malicious troll. You just don't understand the depth to which consciousness goes.

[Jahmaine]

@Leo Gura why don’t you and @AdeptusPsychonautica just finally have a conversation with each other on video, everything can be addressed and you two can have a good conversation, can clear up things on both sides, genuinely as someone that’s observed you both, I reckon a real conversation from you two would be perhaps deeper and better for the community that it might first appear, your conversation would go beyond just criticisms. If you can spend 12 hours on TOE, you can give at least 1-3 for Adeptus, obviously you needn’t do anything and you can say it’s a waste of time and you’re too busy etc etc, but you’re clearly not too busy when you got time to be on here all day and doing back and fourths with people. Especially if you was interested in really doubling down your teachings like you say, if you really think Adeptus is misunderstanding, you’re wise enough to know he’s not alone, rather than hand waving it away and saying go watch this this and this first, it could be more beneficial to speak at the level you’re at now in a real time conversation, as you would if you was teaching people in person, even after that you could make a point and then explain if a more in depth explanation is needed then they can check out your video. It’s each to their own, but I really do think it would be of benefit, especially if you want to really make your points clear, show that’s it air tight, show that you know what you’re talking about and show that you can meet someone halfway (from your point of view) to aid them in a better understanding of yourself. If you think that you’re just giving time to a troll and you don’t want to, then this could be a tester, coz it’s not just any “troll” - he’s not talking in an illogical manner, he is be respectful, he is actually giving you a lot of leeway and is clearly open to understanding, when really and truly, your so called trolls, could really use your own approach and be very direct and blunt with you, to which you’d obviously just hand wave it away again. 
Just my view, but in the spirit of an actual debate and for the purpose of helping the community and showing where all other teachers aren’t or haven’t reached levels you have (by your own admission), why not go that extra step for your fellow humanity? Coz as much as you say you don’t care or whatever else, it’s this behaviour of avoidance and seemingly denial that will get you and this community here labelled as just an echo chamber and you being a gate keeper with all the answers that dare not be challenged, does the highest levels of awakening instruct you to do that? Just to denounce and dismiss soo called trolls or critiques? Genuine question. Look what it took for you to address Connor Murphy as an example. 
perosnally I just think that if you really had reached such levels you claims, you would be more than willing to address things, if anything you’d seek it out, coz truth comes out on top every time, so you got nothing to worry about, truth never changes. Only way I can see you sidestepping this really Is at a later point in life admitting (and I’m not saying you haven’t already) that you may have reached such levels, but clearly have no embodied it - you can see the fear and anxiety in your blogs, look at your own facial expressions and body language. Anyway, nothing personal just to clarify, but I really do feel a conversation between you two would be of great value. Give it some genuine consideration.

Edited March 6, 2022 by Jahmaine

[ZenSwift]

So much mentioning about talk therapy in this thread, what about EMDR therapy, NLP, or Hypnotherapy? 

EMDR is super powerful if you have an actually competent therapist that knows what they're doing.

 

Just wanted to drop this thought here. 

[AdeptusPsychonautica]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I can easily tell from your talking and your own trip reports your level of consciousness and understanding of spiritual truths, or lack thereof.

So I don't need your life story.

You certainly don't need my life story, you simply need to deal with criticism on its own MERIT rather than inventing disingenuous deflections, like saying anyone who disagrees with you is a troll, stupid, unspiritual, or whatever disingenuous deflection with no factual basis you find easiest when your ego gets bruised.

Needless to say I don't think you can "easily tell" at all Leo. I think you actually have IMMENSE difficulty seeing outside of your own perspective, as evidenced by your insistence on what is or isn't spirituality, and your frequent use of it to inflate yourself. Let me give you a word of advice - if you are truly trying to be a spiritual teacher then this kind of pretentious high horse nonsense is beneath you. 
 

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It's not so simple. They were not just in the moment utterances. Profound truths were communicated to you which went over your head because you are more interested in critique and nitpicking than understanding how consciousness works.

I think it is that simple and hey, you are a smart guy. It would be relatively simple to to pick out the profound truths and acknowledge the delusional missteps, and take the criticism on the chin.

Its a poor deflection for you to invent what did or did not go over my head - because you have no idea what my subjective experience of your content was. Its entirely possible that I understood every word in the exact manner you intended it, and that there is still room there for us to disagree. Perhaps (and work with me here) some of what you said was just wrong and thus worthy of criticism? If we remove the idea that you are an infallible super being then this seems fairly plausible.  

Yes I am indeed interested in critiquing psychedelic/spiritual culture (as are you) and if you throw something into the public square for discussion then surely you want people to engage with it, or is that only allowed if I wholeheartedly agree with it? I think the term for that is an echo chamber, and the general consensus is that those are bad.

As for my interest in understanding consciousness, well I see we are once again dipping into your omniscient knowledge of ME - which as previously stated is simply lazy.

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You're not a malicious troll

Well I'm glad we agree on that, it took you long enough ?. Feel free to correct all your previous incorrect statements to this effect.

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You just don't understand the depth to which consciousness goes.

And neither do you - see we have more in common than you think ?

[Juan]

@Jahmaine I don’t think there should be a need to be recorded, in my eyes that is like for entertainment purposes depending the intentions, if you want to educate people, leave a lesson, etc.

If I have a problem with my neighbor then I’ll just go and talk to him personally. In this case sure they are far away from each other so maybe I’ll try to chat first, if it seems limited for us to understand each other then we’ll talk by phone.

Using the Connor situation for example, they talked each other by phone and that’s it, the forum seems to be more calmed after that and so both of them I assume, this could happen here too. For @Leo Gura @AdeptusPsychonautica, I’ll suggest to have a call each other if you feel like, no need to be recorded. You have nothing to lose except well, spend some minutes talking each other and try to find a common ground, that’d be my compassionate move, much love for you both.❤️???

Edited March 6, 2022 by Juan

[Thought Art]

15 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Talk therapy requires training and licensing.

If anything I would criticize psychiatrists more because mostly what they do is over-prescribe shitty medication which is just a form of bypassing.

Some things medication can help with.

 

I’ve noticed this. I had a therapist and when I look at it she basically just listened the whole time, (which was really helpful honestly) and gave a few pointers and cognitive  behaviour worksheets.

But, when I was ambivalent about my emotions (feeling mixed emotions about failing an exam) she was like “you need medication” because I was feeling Mixed emotions. Now, I’m not anti medication but the challenges I was facing at that time were highly contextual. She was just being lazy. It’s like she sent me all this stuff on cognitive behaviour but she herself knew none of it and just lazyily thinks a medication will help me. Bla,

The human mind is so complex. I forgive people. 

I will still use talk therapy as I find it helpful but… as a therapist you need to be well educated and not be lazily prescribing medication. There’s nothing unhealthy about ambivalent reactions. Or, in my case It didn’t mean I was in need of medication.

Especially when I am doing cognitive behavioural work… there’s going to be mixed emotions…. Because the old cognitive distortions of negative way of thinking it meeting the conscious attempt at reprogramming the mind. 
 

Anyway, it was unfortunate. 
 

But overall it helped me a lot. 
 

Luckily, now with my Qigong, journaling, meditation routine and new job and beginning my career as a Qigong teacher I feel grounded and am doing really well. 
 

Still things to straighten out but things are good. ? Thank God for the life purpose course. 

Edited March 6, 2022 by Thought Art

[Jahmaine]

9 minutes ago, Juan said:

@Jahmaine I don’t think there should be a need to be recorded, in my eyes that is like for entertainment purposes depending the intentions, if you want to educate people, leave a lesson, etc.

If I have a problem with my neighbor then I’ll just go and talk to him personally. In this case sure they are far away from each other so maybe I’ll try to chat first, if it seems limited for us to understand each other then we’ll talk by phone.

Using the Connor situation as es example, they talked each other by phone and that’s it, the forum seems to be more calmed after that and so both of them I assume, this could happen here too. For @Leo Gura @AdeptusPsychonautica, I’ll suggest to have a call each other if you feel like, no need to be recorded. You have nothing to lose except well, spend some minutes talking each other and try to find a common ground, that’d be my compassionate move, much love for you both.❤️???

Yeah I hear what you’re saying, but personally like I said in my message I think it’ll be of great value to the community as a whole, because Adeptus isn’t the only one thinking the stuff he’s saying; when things become black and white, we have the mini Leo’s on here that can’t think for themselves and brainlessly defend him and the other side could just recklessly criticise him without any rationale or understanding; so in the interest of aiding everyone I reckon it would be better in a video, they don’t need a phone call, this isn’t going to turn into some YouTube boxing. 
It’s just funny coz every time I put Leo like this he never responds and because he doesn’t it just leaves me to come to my own conclusions and in this case, as well as others, it’s because he can’t respond, he has nothing to say really that won’t make him look silly. Or he’s just a straight up coward. Can’t handle the heat and it’s actually quite shocking considering the audacity of which he carries himself sometimes, even if he is correct sometimes. He cares soo much about truth that he can’t be honest with himself. It’s typical of people like that; you know he’d be a good politician because he follows the same mentality- “if you can’t win the debate, don’t have it” - and he talks about truth, what a joker.

I recommend he goes back watches his own video about life unfolding in phases and chapters - he ain’t getting through this one until he finally admits or deals with critiques - that’s why he’s stuck in this limbo that he’s in, so blatantly; how you going to make a course for the “real serious” seekers when you can’t even be honest with yourself. But as usual hes got nothing to say; change the subject, don’t wanna talk about it, pretend he’s too busy and whatever else he needs to tell himself to sleep at night, it’s actually an absolute joke and it would actually be funny if the platform and ramifications of it wasn’t so big, because directly and indirectly he’s teaching his followers to do the same and those not streetwise enough literally do the exact same, this forum has endless examples of it; but what’s his response to that “ its just like every other forum” ; disappointing doesn’t even describe that lack of responsibility and denial of integrity.

[Leo Gura]

@AdeptusPsychonautica Good luck with your work. My work stands on its own. I am happy to have people compare my work with your work and discover for themselves which gives them a deeper understanding of consciousness.

[AdeptusPsychonautica]

@Leo Gura

Likewise, but I don't think it needs to be so binary. There is a a wider discourse being played out here that would benefit from ideas being challenged, and people talking to each other, and so with that in mind I will continue doing what I do - and yes that does mean that one day I may be talking about you again. Take it as a compliment that someone is engaging with what your ideas, even if they are critical of them.

Sincerely though Leo, I wish you well with your work.

[Husseinisdoingfine]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You have to learn to make your own decisions in life. I am not the CEO of your life, you are. And until you start taking responsibility for being the CEO of your life you will continue to suffer not just at my hands but the hands of many other humans who you give your authority away to.

The thing is, you don't want to take this responsibility. You want someone like me to tell you what to do in life. So you can just paint by numbers. Well... that's not how a good life is created.

I would tell you to go walk off a cliff -- just so you stop following my words blindly -- but I'm afraid you might take me seriously.

THANK YOU!

[blankisomeone]

On 3/3/2022 at 6:31 PM, catcat69123 said:

Most of you guys haven't realized you were raised up in a cult, it hasn't hit you, everything you do and value is defined by others and you are enslaved into seeking validation from other people in an echo chamber you can't even escape on the internet, you are merely a product of conditoning - at least what you seperate as other cults and communes people looked a bit happier 

would you rather be where you are or here?

 

oh god i'd much rather lie depressed in bed for the rest of my life

[Javfly33]

20 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

Actually it is not the psychedelic but what the psychedelic can trigger  - awakening - that can actually alleviate the illness.  I know this because my awakening completely alleviated OCD.    Unfortunately, just like western medicine, it is not a permanent cure.  Because eventually the more you sink back into the dream and your ego, what came with your ego will return.   But it is more powerful than meds if indeed it awakens you.  (I've taken meds so I am speaking from experience) And can alleviate symptoms for years.

Absolutely agree Buddy. My first lsd trip healed my depression/anxiety thought loops, but since I was 3-4 years since doing It again It came back as always. So It seems regular use of moderate doses of psychs + meditation its the way to go to not go completely insane by the damn ego structure 

[Prakhar]

Whether it is Leo, Osho, Bentinho, or any other target, people will keep on talking/distorting/lying/assuming/pretending/projecting in the name of their "truth". The problem is that most people are not willing to listen, understand and see things from all perspectives to find the closest version of the truth that a just human mind can perceive.

Edited March 7, 2022 by Prakhar

[Danioover9000]

@Leo Gura

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@AdeptusPsychonautica Good luck with your work. My work stands on its own. I am happy to have people compare my work with your work and discover for themselves which gives them a deeper understanding of consciousness.

Well said. 

[Ry4n]

10 hours ago, AdeptusPsychonautica said:

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

They seem delusional to you because you fundamentally don't understand how spirituality works. So you lack a larger context for some of the radical things I have said. That which your mind cannot fathom, that which is beyond your direct experience, you call "delusional" because that's the only way your mind knows how to make sense of reality.

@Leo Gura

Ah I see. Its a good thing that you have all this background about me, and what I do and don't know. I imagine that's very handy that you can simply call upon that knowledge to make statements about people, you know - rather than dealing with the inconvenience of facts and reality. But hey, if you prefer to fantasize a backstory for me then knock yourself out - whatever helps.

Is this not an example of gaslighting?

[Ry4n]

10 hours ago, Loba said:

and you just gaslight people who try to determine where you are at... genuinely

Gaslighting is the forum's Modus Operandi. Take a look at Richard Lang's (and Douglas Harding's) style of teaching; everybody is seen as capable of knowing their true nature and nobody is viewed as a "teacher" above others, there is absolutely no hierarchy at all. Everyone is equal to the point that the one who sees this sees everybody else as "awake" too. This type of attitude makes embodiment of the truth natural, easy and simple. 

This hierarchical enforcement of who's the most awake is purely ego based and only isolates more people, as it will continue to do so in the future. 

More and more people are leaving for this very reason, and it's a pretty justified one.

This discussion seems pretty pointless at this stage though, nothing is going to change and young, impressionable depressed teenagers are going to continue to come to these spaces only to be confused, gaslit and left off worse than when they came, with no one taking responsibility for it. 

Opposing views about spirituality simply aren't respected on this forum, and is usually what opens the floodgates to more gaslighting, thus reinforcing group think as Adeptus has mentioned. Dogmatism in action. 

9 hours ago, Jahmaine said:

we have the mini Leo’s on here that can’t think for themselves and brainlessly defend him

Yep, most likely the depressed teenagers I'm talking about. 

I would know because I was one of them!!! 

 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Ry4n

[RMQualtrough]

31 minutes ago, Ry4n said:

Take a look at Richard Lang's (and Douglas Harding's) style of teaching; everybody is seen as capable of knowing their true nature and nobody is viewed as a "teacher" above others, there is absolutely no hierarchy at all. Everyone is equal to the point that the one who sees this sees everybody else as "awake" too. This type of attitude makes embodiment of the truth natural, easy and simple. 

This hierarchical enforcement of who's the most awake is purely ego based and only isolates more people, as it will continue to do so in the future.

That would be the only accurate view, also.

No matter how "awakened" a person is, once the person is gone (which is necessary in total ego dissolution of course) what is left is completely identical to everyone and everything else.

Anyone hoping that they will do a bunch of "spiritual" shit in this life and somehow receive a reward upon their death for doing so, is sorely mistaken indeed. Lmao.

The #1 takeaway for me was always that. And that I am no more important than a single grain of sand, and also no less important than an entire Solar System.

[Ry4n]

1 hour ago, RMQualtrough said:

The #1 takeaway for me was always that. And that I am no more important than a single grain of sand, and also no less important than an entire Solar System.

I like it

[RMQualtrough]

27 minutes ago, Ry4n said:

I like it

Yeah, there's no other way it could ever be if a person is identifying entirely with the entire unit. You can only ever identify anything as better or worse from a position of splitting the singular unit into this and that. Without a this and a that, there's no comparisons to be drawn.

Hence the life of a bacteria is as important as your entire life, is as important as the entire universe.

My experience of this changed my view on reality permanently for sure.