Narcissists vs Sociopaths vs Psychopaths

[mandyjw]

5 hours ago, Keyhole said:

Also, echo?  Oh man that story... Hmmmn.

Echo and Narcissus live in everyone's psyche. 

The real power of stories is to imagine that you're not. I can tell you some wild ones. 

Edited July 17, 2020 by mandyjw

[mandyjw]

@Keyhole God and the devil also only reside in one's own imagination. Imagination itself is actually collective and owned by no one over another though.

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

God and the devil also only reside in one's own imagination

No!

You are God

[mandyjw]

@Leo Gura I'm the Devil, God told me. It's a long story. 

I was a devout Christian. You cannot spend you entire life deathly afraid of the Devil and afraid of being bad, pursue awakening and not realize "I am the Devil" without all hell (and bliss) breaking loose. 

Not two.

You are not two. 

[Leo Gura]

@mandyjw You are full of shit and playing games.

[mandyjw]

@Leo Gura Well, when I add in your signature quote it brings us round full circle doesn't it? 

[Leo Gura]

@mandyjw Still playing games.

[mandyjw]

@Leo Gura The only real intent of a game is to just to have fun. 

[lmfao]

@Spiral Wizard 

22 hours ago, Spiral Wizard said:

Have you ever encountered a narcissist, sociopath, or psychopath? What was your experience? 

Around the online MBTI communities I has hanging around, there was this dude who would hop from server to server, finding places to troll but he always got banned extremely quickly. He had his own server though which I joined for a tiny bit to see what this guy was about. He was an odd fellow. I talked to him a bit on voice chat, he was a disgusting person. 

His version of having fun was pathological lying and provoking. I did manage to have a few "genuine" conversations with him. He's been diagnosed irl with ASPD, seemed like a sociopath for sure, probably a narcissist as well.

My first convo was when I was talking to him because he said he was seeking a philosophy that matched his "naturally hateful way of being". I asked him why he thought this was a fundamental part of his nature, why he couldn't become kinder or calmer. He claimed he was incapable of otherwise, and that hate and aggression is his default. I got the feeling that most of what he was saying was bullshit excuses.
I asked him if he's tried psychedelics. He said he's tried them before (I remember he tried LSD, cant remember what else) and they don't anything. I recommended maybe trying again but he was adamant  they won't help. I don't know to what degree he was speaking the truth or making shit up here. I'm no psychedelic user, and I don't know how it would work on people like this.


He started his own community/server so I got to see that side of him. He established cult-like dynamics. Now observations about him as a person in general.  He enjoys and revels in making truth indistinguishable from falsehood. It was all just psychological warfare and pointless manipulation for whatever imaginary gains his petty mind conceived of. 

He was a control freak. In his conversations he needs a very particular power dynamic. The person he's talking to needs to be humble, respectful and somewhat meek. And he's the brash and aggressive one. And in reward for fulfilling this dynamic, he would metaphorically suck your dick by giving you compliments of being intelligent or ascended. He claimed all his compliments were genuine. More of that in the next paragraph now. 

There is one caveat to what I'm saying. I don't know how much of what he was doing was intentionally manipulative and deceitful. He tried to give off the image of someone who was brutally honest most of the time, and that the lying was all just him trolling and having fun, and it's your fault for being a sucker. And I think that image was at least partially true if not mostly true. 

He was certainly imitating (or actually was, rather than imitating) , to a degree, what self proclaimed (some of which are genuine and not just self-proclaimed) biological psychopaths on Quora exhibit. What I mean is that he gave off the vibe of someone very un-neurotic at times and there were times when he was serious that he felt "raw" and charismatic. He felt like the real deal. Extremely blunt, logical and pragmatic. Excellent at rational, matter of fact judgement at times. Good at seeing through inconsistencies of emotion/belief and calling out fake shit.  First time I met him I felt a weird fear just from his manner of speech and energy.

He felt like an alien, and there's the conflicting feelings of intrigue and fear someone feels when encountering a dangerous and unknown entity.

In the end though, I mostly decoded it all. It wasn't that mysterious or amazing really. Psychopaths are just people with a smaller range of emotion, and it limits their perspective and what dimensions of consciousness they can explore and grasp.

----
I am currently in a place where I struggle to see low consciousness as being loving and as a part of reality to accept and "surrender" to. 

Edited July 17, 2020 by lmfao

[Forestluv]

4 hours ago, mandyjw said:

I'm the Devil, God told me. 

Not two.

You are not two. 

If you are not two, how can God (1) tell you (2a) that you are the Devil (2b)? 

If you are not two, does not Devil = God = Me? Is this not all One God that is You?

[mandyjw]

@Forestluv yes, more accurately God didn't tell me, I just realized it, so Leo is right. All a memory can ever be is a story and we never do tell them quite right, or maybe we do and that's all they ever really are. 

[remember]

6 hours ago, lmfao said:

I am currently in a place where I struggle to see low consciousness as being loving and as a part of reality to accept and "surrender" to. 

being loving does not always mean surrendering - it’s also not about seeing low consciousness as loving. low consciousness often has the effect of low consciousness aswell, but love is not low consciousness it’s the attempt to elevate consciousness, which means maximizing or elevating the level of love.   if you separate yourself from love, you separate yourself from the source of love within you. discerning between source and qualitative output, which is not speech but consciousness - you can surrender to a lot... sometimes low consciousness is what elevates consciousness - and in general its very difficult to discern source from source as consciousness always leaves aftereffects.

[Member]

On 7/16/2020 at 8:06 PM, Spiral Wizard said:

Have you ever encountered a narcissist, sociopath, or psychopath? What was your experience?

I've been in a relationship with a narcissistic psychopath/pathological liar for 3 years. It was really charming at first, then shit escalated pretty nasty. These types of people are masters at manipulating others to get what they want. Psychopaths usually appear really kind and educated in order to gain trust but they're rotten on the inside. Are really obsessed with success, envious of other people's achievements, no matter if it is their partner or friend. They have no remorse and even will blame you for their shitty treatment. Nevertheless, they are fun to be with, it's like playing with fire lol but at the same time you're nothing but a toy for them. Actually, these kind of people are desperate for love/attention and can never be fulfilled because they don't understand what love is.

[Epikur]

On 17.7.2020 at 11:07 PM, lmfao said:

@Spiral Wizard 

Around the online MBTI communities I has hanging around, there was this dude who would hop from server to server, finding places to troll but he always got banned extremely quickly. He had his own server though which I joined for a tiny bit to see what this guy was about. He was an odd fellow. I talked to him a bit on voice chat, he was a disgusting person. 

His version of having fun was pathological lying and provoking. I did manage to have a few "genuine" conversations with him. He's been diagnosed irl with ASPD, seemed like a sociopath for sure, probably a narcissist as well.

My first convo was when I was talking to him because he said he was seeking a philosophy that matched his "naturally hateful way of being". I asked him why he thought this was a fundamental part of his nature, why he couldn't become kinder or calmer. He claimed he was incapable of otherwise, and that hate and aggression is his default. I got the feeling that most of what he was saying was bullshit excuses.
I asked him if he's tried psychedelics. He said he's tried them before (I remember he tried LSD, cant remember what else) and they don't anything. I recommended maybe trying again but he was adamant  they won't help. I don't know to what degree he was speaking the truth or making shit up here. I'm no psychedelic user, and I don't know how it would work on people like this.


He started his own community/server so I got to see that side of him. He established cult-like dynamics. Now observations about him as a person in general.  He enjoys and revels in making truth indistinguishable from falsehood. It was all just psychological warfare and pointless manipulation for whatever imaginary gains his petty mind conceived of. 

He was a control freak. In his conversations he needs a very particular power dynamic. The person he's talking to needs to be humble, respectful and somewhat meek. And he's the brash and aggressive one. And in reward for fulfilling this dynamic, he would metaphorically suck your dick by giving you compliments of being intelligent or ascended. He claimed all his compliments were genuine. More of that in the next paragraph now. 

There is one caveat to what I'm saying. I don't know how much of what he was doing was intentionally manipulative and deceitful. He tried to give off the image of someone who was brutally honest most of the time, and that the lying was all just him trolling and having fun, and it's your fault for being a sucker. And I think that image was at least partially true if not mostly true. 

He was certainly imitating (or actually was, rather than imitating) , to a degree, what self proclaimed (some of which are genuine and not just self-proclaimed) biological psychopaths on Quora exhibit. What I mean is that he gave off the vibe of someone very un-neurotic at times and there were times when he was serious that he felt "raw" and charismatic. He felt like the real deal. Extremely blunt, logical and pragmatic. Excellent at rational, matter of fact judgement at times. Good at seeing through inconsistencies of emotion/belief and calling out fake shit.  First time I met him I felt a weird fear just from his manner of speech and energy.

He felt like an alien, and there's the conflicting feelings of intrigue and fear someone feels when encountering a dangerous and unknown entity.

In the end though, I mostly decoded it all. It wasn't that mysterious or amazing really. Psychopaths are just people with a smaller range of emotion, and it limits their perspective and what dimensions of consciousness they can explore and grasp.

----
I am currently in a place where I struggle to see low consciousness as being loving and as a part of reality to accept and "surrender" to. 

One perspective could be that they are like a bug in the system. If the system is really good the bug challenges the system. A ood system overcomes it and becomes even more anti fragile. If not the system breaks down.

Interestingly big warmachines like the mongols or the turks saw themselves as the punishment of god. Interestingly the Christians saw them as that as well. 


 

[Member]

Best description of a successful psychopath craving for attention/love

 

[Leo Gura]

@Cykaaaa It's hard to say. I honestly don't have much direct experience with Red people. It's dangerous to speculate about such things without lots of personal experience.

[Parththakkar12]

1 hour ago, Cykaaaa said:

On the other hand, in the video Leo posted on his blog Dr. Ramani says that you are born a psychopath. Huh. Maybe psychopaths are just not able to enter higher stages of development due to their genetics?

Psychopaths are physically unable to prioritize acting according to a moral ideology over reacting to their emotions. This is what keeps them from moving up from Red to Blue. It would take some emotional mastery for a Stage Red person to actually be able to be a good person without having to rely on a morality, i.e. they would have to awaken to the Truth of Oneness.

[Toby]

On 16.7.2020 at 7:06 PM, Spiral Wizard said:

Also, does narcissism occur on all stages of the spiral? 

Yes. Plenty examples of highly conscious narcissistic - at least in some life areas - people.

[Aaron p]

These people tend to have massive inward psychological suffering...

[ivory]

 

On 7/22/2020 at 2:58 AM, Cykaaaa said:

Do you think there's a strong correlation between narcissism/psychopathy and stage red?

 

I have a mother who is a narcissist and just ended a friendship with another. That said, I have known two. There were some commonalities but both of them exhibited different flavors of narcissism. In fact, it was really interesting to see how much they differed.

First let's look at the DSM V. A narcissist is a person that possesses at least 5 of the following 9 qualities:

• A grandiose logic of self-importance
• A fixation with fantasies of infinite success, control, brilliance, beauty, or idyllic love
• A credence that he or she is extraordinary and exceptional and can only be understood by, or should connect with, other extraordinary or important people or institutions
• A desire for unwarranted admiration
• A sense of entitlement
• Interpersonally oppressive behavior
• No form of empathy
• Resentment of others or a conviction that others are resentful of him or her
• A display of egotistical and conceited behaviors or attitudes

A narcissist isn't necessarily all red. But likely a combination of red, blue, and orange. Take a look at the above list and compare that to what you'll find at each stage in the spiral.

As for my mother here are some interesting qualities: Has a need to control everyone, bosses people around, will call people names, believes people are put on earth to serve her, fearlessly confrontational, denies science (climate change, corona virus, doctor's advice, etc), believes she is always right and no one else knows what they're talking about, is the CEO of a company which she loves more than her family, her employees despise her because she's a nutcase, believes in the law of attraction (oddly), is overweight but wishes she was skinny (eats like shit and complains how hot she gets when and if she exercises), expects everything now now now (very little patience), extremely sensitive, lacks understanding, Trump supporter (seems to admire other Narcissists), has a toxic relationship with her husband, has no friends, cares about her kids to some degree but will lash out if her ideas are challenged.

My friend exhibited the following qualities: A need to show people how strong and powerful he is, talks about how great he is constantly, isn't really all that great at anything or worthy of admiration at all, obsesses about masculinity, obsesses about morality (go figure), "devout Christian" (but also acknowledges Buddhism and Hinduism - he's a very strange character), has a savior complex (believes he was put on earth some godly purpose), highly opinionated despite having any actual knowledge about anything, extremely close-minded, very health conscious (eats a strict vegetarian diet, works out, etc), is saving himself for marriage (not a virgin but hasn't been with a girl in 8 years), highly skilled with the tongue (quite charming and charismatic), extremely judgmental of others, puts others down and talks himself up, admires Connor McGregor and Trump (which I recently discovered), a lone wolf.

I have yet to end my relationship with my mother but I will no longer be visiting her for the holidays. Sometimes I enjoy conversations with her on the phone but in person she's an absolute nightmare to be around. I may end up breaking ties altogether.

I just ended my friendship with the other guy. When I told him I didn't want to be friends with him anymore he told me that the devil was inside of me, called me a hypocrite, then tried to manipulate me into accepting Christ as Lord. LOL.

Edited July 25, 2020 by ivory