Flowerfaeiry

Radical Opinion on Abortion?

66 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Bodigger said:

Please correct me if I am getting this incorrect; what @Hatfort and @Serotoninluv are saying is, it is okay to choose for ourselves to end life inside our own bodies but not if it is outside our bodies.

This is not what I'm saying. This is still within the dynamic of positions - a pro-life position or pro-choice position. I am pointing a meta view of both positions.

The term "okay" is a relative term. What is "okay" is relative to a perspective. From the perspective of an ardent pro-life position, it is not okay to end life in our own bodies. A pro-life position would place the life of a human biological organism over allowing the woman to choose. From a pro-life position, it is not "okay" for a woman to end the life of the human organism inside her. However, this pro-life position is limited to human life. Pro-lifers are not marching to protect mouse life or fly larvae life. It is conditional to human life. . . In contrast, an ardent pro-choice position would be to prioritize allowing the mother to choose over protecting the life of the biological organism inside her. From this position it is "okay" for a woman to choose to end the life of a human organism inside her. . . Whether or not it is "okay" is relative to the perspective. There is no external, objective, universal "okay" - it is relative. 

From a pro-choice perspective, a woman has a right to choose whether to carry a human biological organism inside her or to end it. Choice is a higher priority than "life". To understand this position, one needs to understand that choice is the higher priority in this example. If we shift to the life of a biological organism outside of the body, it is a completely different context. Now the highest priority of choice is no longer relevant. It is a new context. Now that "choice is irrelevant" the person is no longer considered "pro-choice"because from this perspective there is no "choice" (whether to terminate a pregnancy in their body). Whether to protect the lives of non-human biological organisms would be a new question.

A pro-life perspective would be very different. From this perspective protecting the life of a human biological organism is higher than allowing a woman to choose whether to carry it. From this perspective, the pro-choice position seems hypocritical. A pro-choicer may say it is "okay" to end the life of a human embryo, yet not the life of a sea turtle embryo. This seems hypocritical to a pro-lifer because they do not understand a pro-choice position due to their attachment/identification to their pro-life position. However, from a pro-choice position, it is not hypocritical - it is consistent to their position. 

This would be considered a high green or yellow view because it includes relativism. If a person held this meta view and believed it was the right view, that is high green. If a person was aware that this relativistic meta view itself is relative, that is stage yellow. 

Blue, Orange and Green tend to hold different views on abortion due to their underlying value system. 

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1 hour ago, Bodigger said:

Please correct me if I am getting this incorrect; what @Hatfort and @Serotoninluv are saying is, it is okay to choose for ourselves to end life inside our own bodies but not if it is outside our bodies.

As I do more self work I find myself revering all life in all its expressions, no matter what, even if I don't understand it.

No, that is not what I said, you can read what i said in my comments. I didn't speak on that terms, but you can if you want to.

Edited by Hatfort

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5 hours ago, Bodigger said:

Would you mind pointing me in a direction where I may find these polls or percentages you are talking about?  I have been unsuccessful in finding anything like the 75% you have been saying. 

Google around for polling on abortion and Roe v Wade.


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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On 1/13/2020 at 5:01 PM, Hatfort said:

Pro-lifers believe life begins at conception, and pro-choicers at birth.

Nah, not at all. I am pro-choice and I believe life starts at conception. I just DGAF if you wanna kill your own (beautiful) baby.

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13 hours ago, Arcangelo said:

Nah, not at all. I am pro-choice and I believe life starts at conception. I just DGAF if you wanna kill your own (beautiful) baby.

@Arcangelo By "life", do you mean human cells that are living? By that definition, the placenta is "alive" also. Do you feel there are ethical obligations to the placenta?

If you believe that life is defined as anything other than a physical manifestation of consciousness, it creates cognitive dissonance. If you believe human life is synonymous with human consciousness, it cannot be argued that there are any moral implications prior to the fetus developing the physical mechanisms necessary for consciousness.

 

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What I am trying to say is that IDGAF if someone has an abortion for whatever reason, at any time. Actually IDGAF if you kill your own 3yo son for whatever reason.

So you probably can tell by now how i feel about the placenta.

 

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