Is meditation useless?

[Inliytened1]

1 hour ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

@Inliytened1 well said mate.

the Absolute transcends it all and quotes are merely pointers as are words, all teachers say they can never speak tbe absolute truth but only use pointers to help you get there. 

Hence, silence has always been the highest teaching and always will be! 

Howveer, models like SD are useful for psychological development for example and awakening maps like the Zen one can also be very beneficial for people’s journeys.

life is now, this is it, and it’s fucking amazing! 

Well said as well!  ??

[Haumea2018]

Quote

I've enjoyed Ramana many, many years ago,...good insight on non-duality,...but his belief in Oneness prevented him from Spiral Dynamics 8.

SD is a map that in practice represents endless seeking.

Enlightenment is about finding, not endless seeking.

Endless seeking represents the unwillingness to surrender egoic attachment to "improvement" or "transformation."

Enlightenment is not about "improvement" or "transformation" but surrendering to the perfection of being.

 

 

[Logoi]

Have read different perspectives about it. Like the instant awakening is that, instant and "accidental" . Meditation will make you more accident prone to it (think It was ken willber that said it) 

As I read somewhere that meditation itself is connected with an effort of the physical brain and needs to be transcended in order achieve spiritual meditation, as a disciple needs to transcend his Master in the end. Whatever that means. 

For me its the way to connect deeper with Self or "I am" . Although if someone wants to experience some more. A group or even better a mass meditation (some are organized on the internet) can be highly recommended. There is this meditation that goes on every sunday same time that i do.  Some hours or even days prior to it I experience some mental churning, then a hightened state of energy or bliss, there are those days that i cannot handle this positive collective energy that i get "blissed out" and drowsy that i fall peacefully asleep an hour prior this meditation and wake up an hour after its done, sort of feels im with the meditation but in a sleep state(?), it can become a very healing experience unlike a regular solo meditation. 

 

 

[ADD]

@Logoi do you have a link to that meditation?

On 18.12.2019 at 11:34 PM, ardacigin said:

 

 

[Lento]

Sigh..

Instead of trying to convert others, how about using their paradigms to expand your understanding and to correct your blindspots?

[Nahm]

@Haumea2018 Nice. Reminiscent of the Buddha’s lotus “speech”. 

[purerogue]

It is mind action in both ways, it is silly to say opposite, difference from inquiry and mediation is that inquiry will be sudden click, mediation will be insight that you will most likely interpret your own way after you get it, which is why it is problem. 

 

Edited December 24, 2019 by purerogue

[LfcCharlie4]

@Haumea2018 Well said as always. 

It is here, it is now it always was we just have to notice it. 

Meditation is a tool that helps us “notice” our background of awareness more and more and bring it to the foreground, until you realise it is the substance of absolutely everything, and suddenly the silence never leaves.

is meditation the best tool ever for awakening? I think there’s better out there, but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t meditate, it’s just meditation alone is unlikely to fully wake someone up unless one goes incredibly deep into it. But, meditation as part of your Sadhana is definitely recommended imo. 

It’s also great for many things  

[Rasheed]

This is very inspiring video for me about meditation. I wanted to share it, because I think, it will inspire you too, and help you in understanding, why meditation is very powerful.

[Ibn Sina]

Haven't read the entire thread, but all  I will say is this- Psychedelics might give you the experience of non-duality, but it does not teach you the 'art of living'. In other words, if you are someone who regularly takes psychedelics to achieve the 'peaks', than you are probably not someone with enlightenment, you are probably still a reactionary individual who is bound to his ego and defends his ego, you still have thoughts. The reason is, you don't have a trained 'mind'  or 'consciousness'. The goal is not the 'peak' experience, but a trained mind. That is why all these psychedelic nonsense is bullshit, all I see in this forum of 'enlightened' people is people trying to defend their ego, dogmatic to the point of irrationality, they are still within their ego, they have taken the drugs (which I am also interested in) but the experience is nothing, the habit of detachment is everything, and this is the art of living. If you want the 'experience',  the 'samadhi' than do take it, but it does not eliminate suffering of day to day  life. Wisdom should be grown, it does not come by taking a pill.

Edited January 1, 2020 by Ibn Sina

[Aaron p]

@Ibn Sina

 

Edited January 2, 2020 by Aaron p

[Aaron p]

19 hours ago, Ibn Sina said:

all I see in this forum of 'enlightened' people is people trying to defend their ego, dogmatic to the point of irrationality, they are still within their ego

why you bashing psychedelics bro?

I got more insight in 15 mins with a 0.05 gram dose of DMT than I got with nearly a year and a half of one hour a day, every day practise with extremely hardcore practises.

@Ibn Sina (with reference to the quote^) be careful your not being guilty of what your telling other people...

19 hours ago, Ibn Sina said:

Wisdom should be grown, it does not come by taking a pill.

I got a fuck tonn of wisdom after I took my pill. Why does wisdom not come from taking a pill? What chemicals are in your brain that allow you to form wisdom in the first place? This personally just sounds like dogma to me. Why can't a pill grant incredible insight? Who says so?

This sounds dogmatic to the point of irrationality ?

[Consilience]

@Aaron p You received more insights from DMT than hardcore daily practice, which totally makes sense. What about long term transformation? Did DMT provide more of that than daily practice? 

[LfcCharlie4]

@Aaron p Psychedelics are great for insights, however, it's all about your level of consciousness now, in every moment, not just for an hour(s). 

If you can integrate then that's an awesome tool and I'm glad you found something so effective! 

However, looking at it from both sides, there is a lot of trip reports on here but not many truly awakened beings, however, they clearly help give people incredible insights and can 'spearhead' one's journey, but they certainly guarantee nothing at all and have to of course be used correctly, especially for those of us under 25 we really need to be careful, remember they are still Drugs. 

[Jacobsrw]

@Forrest Adkins meditation is far from useless. It’s the most accessibly simple tool that enters you into pure being without the use of hardcore interventions. @DoubleYou said it perfectly. Meditation is “being” in its uncultured simplicity. It is in that it is so simple that it’s importance becomes overlooked.

Psychedelics on the other hand, force you into being through mystical states. Their power in doing so may be unmatched but the complicated nature that comes through them is what makes them harder to integrate.

Unfortunately, meditation is so poorly considered in the modern day that it becomes perceptively depreciated. It’s usually considered as far as being a frivolous feel-good stimulus, which in turn undermines its true purpose. It’s purpose is alignment to “being” without all the decorations. The power in its practice really comes down to the investment in your action.

Edited January 2, 2020 by Jacobsrw

[Inliytened1]

@Jacobsrw agreed...just adding that pure being is a mystical state.

Mystical states can be reached via meditation or pyschedelics, yoga etc.  Or just spontaneously if one is that gifted.

[Svartsaft]

Yes its as useless as psycadelic drugs. 

[tedens]

7 hours ago, Jacobsrw said:

@Forrest Adkins meditation is far from useless. It’s the most accessibly simple tool that enters you into pure being without the use of hardcore interventions.

Even more. It is possible to create psychedelic effects through meditation, at least for a short time.

Edited January 2, 2020 by tedens

[Jacobsrw]

@Inliytened1That’s definitely one side of it. The other is that pure being takes the form of a mystical state through the process of initiation then shifts into the normality of life once embodied. The duality first converges then re-merges once one becomes permanently awakened.

@tedens indeed, I am told. I am confident that would be the case. However, I would say that meditation is an incubative tool to maintain ”beingness” opposed to a mystical entry into a temporary state.

[tedens]

@Jacobsrw ok. I mean self inquiry to be precise.