Patrick Lynam

psychotherapist

21 posts in this topic

I did a psychotherapy session with this lady who has done vipassanas and has a masters in psychology and traveled around the east and all.  She says that psychedelics are bad basically and that she refuses to work with me if I take any drugs. She also charges $160 per hour witch seems like allot. Im not sure if she has ever taken psychedelics but this just seems weird to me is psychotherapy really that powerful for personal development? more than psychedelics? Is my money better spent doing allot of meditation/ self inquiry and reading and other ways wim hof method and all this? I just dont understand what is wrong with taking psychedelics for personal growth is my money better spent on buying a $15 tab of acid every two weeks rather than $160 every two weeks on psychotherapy? is it common for psychotherapist to refuse to work with people who take them? it just seems fishy to me.  

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Self-therapy can be just as effective, like inner child work.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Patrick Lynam said:

I just dont understand what is wrong with taking psychedelics for personal growth is my money better spent on buying a $15 tab of acid every two weeks rather than $160 every two weeks on psychotherapy? is it common for psychotherapist to refuse to work with people who take them? it just seems fishy to me.  

Psychedelics can make you mentally disfuntional, make you more incapeable with dealing with life's situations. It can dirupt the whole energy system and cause various disease, It can make you very emotionally unstable and paranoic, it can create strong dependancy on the substence. There are probably even more problems with it. Like spiritual problems also.

So... I'm not saying it will happen to you. But it can happen. 

Psychedelics are not good for bringing mental stability and strong foundation and balance and peace and happyness and inner joy. It's rather destructive in many ways. 

Althought, it can be used for elevating your consciousness if it is used properly and scientifically. But that's not what you need. You need health, balance, emotional release etc. Psychiatrist will be much better for you then any chemical at this point.

Edited by Salvijus

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She is like a carpenter who thinks power tools are bad and refuses to work with them. Or a neuroscientist who refuses to teach anyone who practices reiki. She may be skilled in certain areas, yet she will not have an open mind and holistic understanding of how all modalities are inter-connected. If she was strongly anti- anything, that would be a weird vibe for me. Like if she said she was anti-science that would be odd. 

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@Salvijus Have you ever tried psychedelics, or are you simply sharing your rationalization?

1 hour ago, Patrick Lynam said:

 She says that psychedelics are bad basically and that she refuses to work with me if I take any drugs.

Nobody can make this decision for you. You can go wrong both ways - with psychotherapy and with LSD.
If you decide to stick with psychotherapy, I'd definitely advise to follow your agreement with the therapist and not take any drugs unless she allows you to. LSD is a powerful substance and it will definitely bring repressed stuff which will be disorienting, or potentially disruptive to the therapy that is being consciously led by a human.

If you want to do both at the same time - you need to find a therapist that will allow you to.

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If you don't trust her methods than don't work with her. She may not be the fit for you. On the top of that it seems like you are looking for confirmation of what you already do rather than finding a new way to help you out. maybe you need to drop everything you have learned and come out as a "blank paper" empty-handed with no expectations. Psychadelics bear a stigma that professionals are afraid of because it may harm their reputation and practice...she may still be regulated by a "blue" institute that sees no difference between 5MEO and cocacine. 

Additionally, bear in mind that you are not just paying for the 60 minute session. You also pay for: 

  • her education: past and current
  • expenses put into running her clinic: rental, utilities, taxes etc..
  • her branding / image the more reputable the more expensive
  • her past experience - this will allow her to ask you the right questions and filter through bullshit methods that don't work and find efficient ones that work for you

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Posted (edited)

@tsuki my experience with psychedelics are small. I've only tried Al-lad a few times.

But i can share what I've learned from it.

I saw how easy it is to become addicted to it. Not that it produces some physical dependacy but there's definitely an emotional dependancy to it, a desire to recreate that experience over and over which leads to regression. I also learned how fragile human brains are and how easy it is to cause permenant damage to it. I was able to see blue color with al-lad, now I can see the same thing when I'm sober without any chemicals.

Also I lived in Netherlands where everything is legal and saw many people who had some lsd or mushrooms or simply by smoking weed everyday and became like dead vegetables.. unable to function at all, mentally unstable, paranoic and hallusinationary. I heard stories how others even got into a mental asylum. 

I'm not against psychedelics. I'm just saying they're destructive and a not a good attempt to bring mental balance and stability and health. If you're looking to dismantle all your reality and fly into 4th dimension then fine, psychedelics can do that to you probably. But if you want to become alive, healthy, balanced, functional, content human being. Go to therapy or yoga or meditation or smth. 

Don't use psychedelics to escape your reality.

Edited by Salvijus

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Posted (edited)

@Salvijus  see i thought the idea was to use psychedelics along with meditation and yoga to help maintain mental balance when expanding consciousness, I've heard so many people say that when used in the right way psychedelics are incredible healing tools.  what do u guys think about this? - @Serotoninluv @Michael569 @tsuki

 

Edited by Patrick Lynam

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Posted (edited)

I had a very positive, but challenging experience with LSD. I think that you should not follow anybody's advice on this and decide for yourself. It can both go very right or horribly wrong and you need to feel like you can handle both outcomes.

Do you feel stable and secure enough to be able to disrupt your life freely?

Edited by tsuki

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@Patrick Lynam Consider scuba diving. Is it positive or negative? Well it depends. If someone buys used equipment at a garage sale, with no instructions, and goes out to sea to try it on their own. . . it's probably not going to turn out so well. Similarly, if someone has intense claustrophobia and a history of panic attacks about not being able to breath - it's probably not going to go so well.

Before I tried psychedelics, I did a lot of research. I talked with a lot of people that had experience with meditation, yoga, contemplation, personal development, psychology, science and psychedelics. People that seemed mature and had a variety of experience/knowledge and saw how it is all inter-related. To me, people that are all-in for psychedelics at the expense of other spirituality practices is a red flag. As well, people that are strongly against psychedelics (with little or no experience) is also a red flag. It is the people that have various experience in multiple areas and see things holistically that I resonate with. 

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21 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

I saw how easy it is to become addicted to it.

Incorrect. Psychedelics are one of the least addictive substances and are in fact the most successful remedy used to CURE addictions.

Look up Iboga. Or the recent studies on using mushrooms to cure depression and addiction.

23 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Also I lived in Netherlands where everything is legal

Incorrect. I live in the Netherlands, and all the traditional psychedelics are illegal here.

 

25 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

I'm not against psychedelics.

Clearly, you are. Just in denial

 

25 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

I'm just saying they're destructive

Incorrect. They have a healing power that is unheard of in mainstream psychotherapy. But, they're a double edged sword. Use them for escape and they will punish you. But we're not talking about using them for escape, are we. We're talking about the therapeutic use.

27 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

If you're looking to dismantle all your reality and fly into 4th dimension then fine, psychedelics can do that to you probably.

This is a strawman, you're expanding your flawed concept into ridiculousness. Demonstrating your poor understanding of them.

 

29 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

and a not a good attempt to bring mental balance and stability and health.

Actually, ALL my psychedelic experiences have greatly and dramatically improved my mental stability and health, to the point where my loved ones are remarking they can't BELIEVE how much I've changed for the better.

I'm sorry that you never experienced this benefit.


** flowMAN ** Habits: { Not Smoking 9/9/19; Weekly Schedule Adherence > 50% 9/30/19; Schedule Next Day 10/01/19; Up By 5am 10/01/19; In Bed By 9pm 10/01/19; }

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@Serotoninluv How did u find people like this if i may ask? I live in what seems like a pretty low consciousness part of the world  and the internet is good but I have so many questions that i cant really answer this wholistic understanding seems to be a seriously rare thing in my experience 

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Posted (edited)

27 minutes ago, Patrick Lynam said:

the idea was to use psychedelics along with meditation and yoga to help maintain mental balance when expanding consciousness, I've heard so many people say that when used in the right way psychedelics are incredible healing tools.  what do u guys think about this?

@Patrick Lynam Obviously, you are correct here. You can do this, and it works great. Leo's videos could have told you that.

But why do you need so much confirmation? Take them only if you're willing to bear the responsibility for the consequences. There is great potential, but no one here can guarantee for you that nothing bad will happen. Dare to make your own choices. If you're not okay with the risk, or you feel not in the right place for it, stay with the slow and safe path, like mainstream therapy.

 

@Patrick Lynam  And follow PsychedSubstance on youtube. Watch his videos. He presents a very careful and balanced view, and all the information you will need.

Edited by flowboy

** flowMAN ** Habits: { Not Smoking 9/9/19; Weekly Schedule Adherence > 50% 9/30/19; Schedule Next Day 10/01/19; Up By 5am 10/01/19; In Bed By 9pm 10/01/19; }

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Use both psychedelics and psychotherapy.

not all therapist are anti-psychedelics.

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2 hours ago, Patrick Lynam said:

@Serotoninluv How did u find people like this if i may ask? I live in what seems like a pretty low consciousness part of the world  and the internet is good but I have so many questions that i cant really answer this wholistic understanding seems to be a seriously rare thing in my experience 

Having direct experience and knowledge in multiple areas with mastery is extremely rare. Most high level spiritual people seem to have mastery in one area. Integrating multiple forms is an extremely high level and I've met very few people that I'd consider at this level. So, I don't expect this or look for this level. 

Rather, I'm more interested in how open and curious a person is. All of these modalities (neuroscience, psychedelics, reiki, kundalini, buddhism, contemplation etc) are all within an ocean of spirituality. For me, recognizing this and being open to the value of this is more important. A shaman who specializes in Ayahuasca, yet is open and curious about yoga and neuroscience is very different than a shaman who only is open to Ayahuasca. Yet, that is not to say he has no value - he may be highly skilled in using his tool and may have many lessons for me. The major turn-off for me is when one says their tool is the best, the only valid method, other methods are bad or delusional and that I need to use his method. I may be able to exchange a bit of experience with that person, yet it will be limited and I will not fully connect or resonate with such a person. 

As well, I resonate with people that are open and curious to various methods, yet do not see any one as all "good" or "bad". The person who says Ayahuasca is the best thing for everyone and if everyone just did an Ayahuasca retreat we would all be better and enlightened - is immature. There is a certain context in which Ayahuasca can be beneficial and there are risks for some people. We need to consider an individual situation. Perhaps it seems like an Aya retreat might be beneficial to a particular person, yet how will we combine that with other methods? For some, an Aya retreat coupled to Yoga and meditation might be a great combo. For someone else, an Aya retreat coupled to psychotherapy may be benefical. For another, an Aya retreat coupled to reiki and medication might be a great combination.

I like people that have a diversity of direct experience, yet it is the maturity, openness and curiosity that is more important to me. Ime, these people are very rare - and they differ in terms of degree of maturity, openness and curiosity. I've been actively seeking such people and I'd say I've only met about 8 in real life - they are very special people to me. There is only one two people in my real life environment like this. One lives 60 miles away and we see each other every weekend, the other lives 100 miles away and we have only met once. Yet they are much more common on the internet, they are scattered all over online.

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Psychedelics are a tool. So it can be misused. Many people use it in a way that only feed more into self-delusion.

What is the reason you're doing psychotherapy? Depression?

You could take a break from psychedelics, and try her out for like 3 months. It could give you very interesting insights. 

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Psychedelics would put her out of business, so she's right to fear them ;)

I would take psychedelics over the best gurus, and a therapist is nowhere near the level of a good guru.

With that said, therapy is still useful. But it won't work for you if you're short on cash. Effective therapy requires lots of sessions and will be very costly.

Session per session psychedelics will grow you 10x to 100x faster than therapy. Talking about psychological matters is nowhere as effective as direct spiritual consciousness. Talk therapy is notoriously slow.


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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Posted (edited)

On 8.4.2019 at 0:36 PM, Patrick Lynam said:

I did a psychotherapy session with this lady who has done vipassanas and has a masters in psychology and traveled around the east and all.  She says that psychedelics are bad basically and that she refuses to work with me if I take any drugs. She also charges $160 per hour witch seems like allot. Im not sure if she has ever taken psychedelics but this just seems weird to me is psychotherapy really that powerful for personal development? more than psychedelics? Is my money better spent doing allot of meditation/ self inquiry and reading and other ways wim hof method and all this? I just dont understand what is wrong with taking psychedelics for personal growth is my money better spent on buying a $15 tab of acid every two weeks rather than $160 every two weeks on psychotherapy? is it common for psychotherapist to refuse to work with people who take them? it just seems fishy to me.  

i’d say it depends, but if you already are in a psychotic like state or manic i’d listen to the therapist as the psychedelics will not calm you down they will just make a bigger mess out of what already is confused. psylicobin for example is against depression - it would be interesting how it works with psychosis. every substance is a medication or a poison depending on your condition. as you prescribe what’s good for you already to yourself find out what is the case with you, and what the substance does. then you can decide what will help you and what not. taking psychedelics without doing the research is like playing poker with your sanity on the table.

Edited by now is forever

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10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Talk therapy is notoriously slow.

It’s the equivalent of trying to get enlightened by meditating 2 min a day. 

Combine consistent psychotherapy work with a good solid consistent spiritual practice and you will get to the source of this shit. You face them a lot quicker. Which is threatening to a lot of people who have psychological issues (some very legitimate due to their own brain) because now they’re taken out of their comfort zone of ‘one day I’ll face my issues and they’ll be resolved’ and then now they have to put their butt on the line and face them. 

Finding a good practitioner though who can facilitate both of those things is very hard. 

Maybe look into Shunyamurti from Sat Yoga and do a retreat with him. Give him and email. He responds and he’d be happy to help you out. He’s done a great job as far as my outside perspective goes in combining psychoanalaysis (particularly Lacanian and Kleinian), hypnosis, shamanism, etc. along with nonduality and spiritual practices. He can be of a huge assistance to you if you can come out to a retreat of his. 

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I have tried both, I did psychotherapy for five years, at least one day a week, sometimes two. During that period I also used to smoke a lot of weed, which the therapist also knew of. She was not against me using it but also did not found it good, but during that period I used merely to escape the present situation I was living. I learn a lot of things, but I can now see in retrospective that I played a lot of ego games and it took me many time to talk the truth and not just mental masturbation to please the therapist or myself. And it only took me so far, after some time I just realized I could not go deeper so I stopped.

More recently I have been meditating, doing Kriya yoga *daily at least 30 minutes a day) and psychedelics (LSD and mushrooms) every three weeks or so. I can definitely feel the progress is faster than psychotherapy, specially after a psychedelics session. Psychedelics are just great, however I can also see that in the past I could have become addicted and easily deluded without all the work I did with the psychotherapy and other self-help stuff I have been doing prior I started doing the psychedelics session.

I would say that there are many therapist out there, and if you really want to try it you will find the right one.

Good luck!

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