Where do I start?

[cetus]

@Paul92 Maybe take a break for a while to get yourself centered. Do you have a park or nature area around you to take a walk in? It wil help get you grounded.

[Paul92]

@cetus56 Why did God create the ego? Why are we allowed to feel separate? Right now I just don't know what to do. I'm seriously just thinking about ending it. I am so fed up of this feeling. Life is utterly utterly pointless and everything I ever valued is not real. I honestly do not know how people can come on here and not feel the same way.

[Ananta]

40 minutes ago, Jkris said:

Intellect mind ego are in short thoughts. So a thought cannot think. Only the awareness which is knowing can possibily think. When thoughts stop the thinking thinker illusion too has to stop. So essentially it is the awareness which is getting realized that it is not the person personality intellect mind body. Isn't it? Please clarify. 

First, pure awareness, as such, doesn't have a mind to independently think and know. Any hint that it does is meant purely figuratively. It is awareness "plus" the mind that allows for thought/thinking/knowing of objects to take place.

Awareness is already aware of itself, but not of objects, without the mind. To pure awareness, nothing is happening, because there is nothing but itself.

The "mind" has several functions- memory, thinking, deciding, discrimination, emoting, etc. It is within the mind-intellect to be specific, thats "illuminated by" awareness that Self realization occurs (in a still/calm mind a "reflection" of awareness is apprehended)  and thereafter discrimination within the intellect happens between, "you" as awareness and the apparent body/mind- including the "I" thought that you appear to be. 

[cetus]

@Paul92 Don't feel that way. This will pass.

[Paul92]

@cetus56 I've been like this for months. It's not as easy as just not feeling like this. Existence just feels like a sick joke at the moment.

[cetus]

@Paul92 Paul I'm going to move this thread b-c ppl are hijacking it and taking it off topic. 

[cetus]

@Paul92 Did something happen that started this dark period if I may ask? Before that everything was fine?

[bejapuskas]

@Paul92  You are not alone Paul  We are here to help you, just take a break if this is too much for you.

[Ananta]

 Sorry about the hijacking. 

@Paul92 Hang in there. Sounds like you need to reconnect as best you can with life. Spend time with ppl, animals and nature. Try not to put nondual judgements upon your interactions. ...and definitely take a break from spirituality in all forms, until you're feeling better and grounded.  

[Paul92]

@cetus56 It's difficult to say exactly but around the turn of the new year when I read Tolle's PON. My dad told me about it and I had just gotten tinnitus, and I thought it was a book about some sort of CBT to be able to just focus yourself away from things. At first, I think I misinterpreted it. Like many people. I thought in saying "you are not your mind", I thought it meant that nobody's true nature is negative/unfair etc etc. I thought it meant that you don't have to believe the stories you tell yourself. But it is much deeper than that. It is actually saying, of course, that you don't exist! And neither does anyone else. We are just forms being made by God/Presense/Consciousness.

I wasn't completely sold on that. I've always been a materialist. And even now I don't subscribe to a lot of 'woo'. I sort of believe that consciousness is a process of the brain.

So I got a little happier...

And then around a week or so ago I realised that we are not our bodies. Every single atom that makes up our bodies has existed forever. I was in a relationship then, and it scared me to think that my girlfriend was not an absolute entity. I could kiss her on the cheek one day, then within a week, I'd be kissing an entirely different body. So which bit of her was real? Her mind? No, because the mind is not something tangible.

I went searching for answers but even materialists like Sam Harris say that the self is an illusion.

I was diagnosed with OCD many years ago and do go through periods of crazy rumination and I always want certainty on things. But who is the I?

So I thought I need to accept it and give the whole nondual thing a fair shot. And I still want to. But right now, it still hard to process. I was a person who always thrived off our individuality. I've never had a huge ego in the traditional sense of thinking I am something I'm not. I'm just a very normal person, I don't particularly strive for anything other than having a laugh with my friends and helping other people. But if those people are not individuals then I don't know how to get out of bed in a morning the same way.

@bejapuskas Thank you, appreciated.

[Paul92]

@Anna1 If someone could just tell me that my friends and family are real entities I'd be happy. 10000000% In fact, I've never been religious, but if everyone here was claiming that we are all individual souls in monkey bodies, damn I would sign up right now. I habour nobody anyone any hatred. All my life I have tried to be fair to everyone, because I saw people as individuals. It's just hard to lose the very thing that always made you tick..

[Forestluv]

@Paul92 I think you are "halfway" there. For me, this space was really uncomfortable and it seems to be super common for people. There is a realization, there is absence of meaning. Then mind often interprets that has there is no meaning. Yet, that is just adding meaning. Saying there is no meaning is a story - it is assigning meaning. A lot of suffering can arise from this. For me, this was a halfway point. The second half is to drop the story "there is no meaning. everything is an illusion" etc. It's really hard to do, yet very liberating. For me, life began to turn magnificent, magical.

One thing that helped me at this stage. . . Consider that colors are an illusion. Nothing has color. Your mind converts wavelength of light and just makes up color. A dog creates only a few colors in its mind. A mantis shrimp creates hundreds of colors human minds can't.

I love colors. I love colorful art. I love walking through the forest in autumn when the leaves are changing. It's so beautiful. Do I think "these colors are just an imagination in my mind. they don't really exist". Of course not. When I am in an art gallery and my friend is admiring the beautiful integration of colors do I turn to her and say "Sorry to break the news to you, but those colors don't exist. They are just an illusion your mind makes up". Of course not. We enjoy the beautiful colorful artwork together.

For me, letting my mind take a break was really helpful. To turn off the mind for a while and give it a break. During this stage I spent a lot of time in nature. At first I sat on a bench in sadness. Then I started noticing the beauty around me. The colors. The sounds. The trees, birds, streams. I was like a kid again climbing trees and observing dragonflies in awe. It's really beautiful. When I sat on the bench analyzing everything and going deep into awful storyland, I missed all this beauty. 

[Jkris]

@Anna1 ???

[cetus]

3 minutes ago, Paul92 said:

It's difficult to say exactly but around the turn of the new year when I read Tolle's PON.

 I read PON about the same time you did. I read about half of it and never finished it. It's not exactly a "feel good" book is it?. At least not to me. So many ppl rave about too so i had to see what I was missing. It just wasn't for me.

[Ananta]

3 minutes ago, Paul92 said:

If someone could just tell me that my friends and family are real entities I'd be happy.

They are real in the sense that they and you are whole, complete, nondual, unchanging awareness/consciousness and you all are having a human experience with different body/minds. Your experience is different from their experience, so there is "apparent" separation in that sense.

My human character exists, it's experienced, it's just not ultimately real. What's real is the fundamental aspect, which underlies all things and beings. With that said, each apparent being has thoughts/feelings/emotions that they feel and experience. To reinerate they/you are awareness having a human experience.

I hope this was helpful.

[Paul92]

@Serotoninluv  You say your friend.. this is what I mean... your friend isn't a separate identity from you. That is what hurts me. That I am not 'me', which I am quite happy being actually (not in this current state), and my friends are not they. We are in terms of an ego, but the ego is an illusion.

I love the world. Its brilliant. I love music. I love art. I love reading history. I love watching movies. I love food. I love other people. But if it all just me, then what is there to discover?

@Anna1 It's difficult. I understand the Self is an illusion in the sense that a lot of it is stories that we tell ourselves. I just don't like the idea that there is something else looking through my eyes and everyone else's. Sorry, it seems like a cruel ploy.

@cetus56 It's not a feel good book at all. It would have been brilliant if it was just about how you don't have to identify with YOUR negative thoughts. But like I've said above, it's a book about destroying your sense of self, or your ego. Which I know is difficult and probably why I am here. If I'm not real, then my loved ones aren't. And that's a lot to take in right now.

[tedens]

49 minutes ago, cetus56 said:

 I read PON about the same time you did. I read about half of it and never finished it. It's not exactly a "feel good" book is it?. At least not to me. So many ppl rave about too so i had to see what I was missing. It just wasn't for me.

Ecky does not speak to me almost at all.

[Ananta]

19 minutes ago, Paul92 said:

I just don't like the idea that there is something else looking through my eyes and everyone else's.

I get what you mean, especially in your current state of mind, but perhaps what your failing to grasp is that it's always been this way, always, but ignorance is bliss sometimes.

Also, there is a bit of a correction that needs pointed out. The "something else" you are referring to is "you" (awareness), your true identity. It's not some "thing" (ie. object), other than you, thats seeing through "your" apparent eyes.

[Paul92]

7 minutes ago, Anna1 said:

Also, there is a bit of a correction that needs pointed out. The "something else" you are referring to is "you" (awareness), your true identity. It's not some "thing" (ie. object), other than you, thats seeing through "your" apparent eyes.

But it isn't me, as I consider myself. And everyone will say that I am looking for your eyes and you are looking through mine.

If Paul was looking through Paul's eyes that would be great.

If my ex, Rebecca, was looking through Rebecca's eyes, that would be great.

We are all having our own experiences, that'd be wonderful.

[Ananta]

17 minutes ago, Paul92 said:

But it isn't me, as I consider myself. And everyone will say that I am looking for your eyes and you are looking through mine.

If Paul was looking through Paul's eyes that would be great.

If my ex, Rebecca, was looking through Rebecca's eyes, that would be great.

We are all having our own experiences, that'd be wonderful.

Maybe this will make more sense to you ...or maybe not? Let's try...

Although you, I, we are all awareness...you, I, we are all "associated" with different apparent body/mind's. So, Paul thinks/feels he is Paul, etc. when his intellect illumined by awareness "identifies" itself with the Paul ego.

When you fully awaken "from" Paul you will still experience Paul with all his antics, quirks, etc, etc ..So, I'm saying, you can't really get away from Paul. You just see Paul for what Paul is... this integration/assimilation takes as long as it takes and there are growing pains along the way.

You can't really unknow what you know, unless you don't really know it. If it's just a wimsical belief for you right now, then stop seeking, stop searching and go immerse yourself in life.

If you know it and there's no turning back, then get your mental/mind state balanced and then continue on your path to full realization and assimilation at a later time.

As always, just my 2 cents.