winterknight

I am enlightened. Sincere seekers: ask me anything

3,310 posts in this topic

20 minutes ago, winterknight said:

No, it becomes quite clear in an inexpressible way that the individual mind is non-existent and what you really are is recognized. And yes, everyone is enlightened. Or rather, there are no people, only enlightenment. If you accept that, then there is no one around to be asking questions or answering them. If you don't, then there seem to be questions, and if there are questions, then some people are more qualified to answer than others.

But how are you answering if there is no people, only enlightenment? How are you reading this if it doesn't exist, only enlightenment does?

4 minutes ago, winterknight said:

That's a good way to start, but self-inquiry has to be taken out of the sitting position and has to be a constant inquiry that you intensely involve yourself in every waking moment. But what do you take self-inquiry to be? How would you describe what you're doing?

Well I just sit and try to be without thought and whenever I have thought I just inquire into who hears, for instance, to try and be without thought again. I haven't been practicing any lately though. It feels like a habit to  be cultivated.

Edited by Outer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lol, it is like sheeps following a shepherd. Someone claims they are enlightened and *pop any rational thought is left behind, cause here is someone to answer your questions...

No real enlightened teacher will ever answer your questions, because this means you stop thinking for yourself... And this is the opposite of what you should do if you want to reach this state.

I keep being astounded by the nature of it all. Although I can see how this came to be. The desire for enlightenment is so big that one will sacrifice his own thought, as one cant seem to achieve it, by just listening to someone else.

Edited by Emanyalpsid

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, bejapuskas said:

@winterknight You were recommending some books, which included Zen teachings of Bodhidharma and Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi - we have both of these in our local library actually, I will go read them asap! 

What is your recommended technique of meditation/yoga/contemplation?

You were also talking about talking with a psychoanalytic if possible - I have friends who are really good psychologists and brain scientist, what should I ask them? How to get the most juice out of the conversation with them? (we are talking on today's evening)

The recommended technique is Ramana Maharshi's self-inquiry. It's very simple. You know that "I am" right now, right? It's obvious. Well, how do you know it? Where is that feeling coming from? Try to find out where in your experience it is coming from, that certainty that you are. Start in your body. Just like if someone asked you where you were feeling cold, and you searched your experience and said "Oh, my feet are feeling cold." In the same way, ask about the feeling of the "I" that you somehow know with certainty.

And every time you think you know where it's coming from, the rule is that you must ask yourself if you are aware of that thing which you think is the source of the I. If you are, you haven't found the real source yet. So you keep going

If, for example, you say "It's coming from my head" -- well, ask yourself "Well, I am aware of the feeling and sight of my head, right?" Notice that. So where is the "I" that is aware of the head? It's not coming from the head -- it is aware of it. So where is the I feeling? It's just like you notice that there is light in a room, and you're looking for the source of the light. Is it coming from this chair? No. The chair is lit up by something else. Is it coming from that table? Same deal. So keep searching until you find the light bulb. You'll know it when you find it.

As far as psychologists, it's wonderful that you have them as friends, but I'm talking about going into psychoanalytic therapy. It's quite different from normal conversation. Google "psychoanalytic institute" "<your city>" and call them and see if they can give you a referral. PM me if you have questions.

14 minutes ago, Jordan94 said:

Alright, I was already feeling that I will probably at some point naturally be drawn into the seeking truth path

I'll stick to my desire for that moment being and maybe/probably let go of it later i guess

 

Would you say that self-inquiry will already be a good practice for my optimising hapiness interests already ? I mean in short/mid-term results point of view (6month ish)
I will probably try it anyways I never tried it yet

I've been trying different practices so far, mostly vipassana, Kriya, and mindfull presence, trying to figure out which one is best suited for me now

Unfortunately I can't speak with authority about what will optimize happiness in the short-term. Probably close, empathetic relationships with other people, eating the right food, sleeping right, taking care of your health, getting therapy, participating in art, and so on.


Website/book/one-on-one spiritual guidance: Sifting to the Truth: A New Map to the Self

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Outer said:

But how are you answering if there is no people, only enlightenment? How are you reading this if it doesn't exist, only enlightenment does?

Well I just sit and try to be without thought and whenever I have thought I just inquire into who hears, for instance, to try and be without thought again. I haven't been practicing any lately though. It feels like a habit to  be cultivated.

Am I answering this? Am I reading this? That's the question. Perhaps not.

Simply cultivating a state without thought is not enough. Who is it that is without thought? Keep trying to find the answer. Push yourself to find the source of the I and don't stop till you directly experience the answer.


Website/book/one-on-one spiritual guidance: Sifting to the Truth: A New Map to the Self

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Outer

One should look into his thoughts and how they come to be to know oneself and not deny or ignore them. However, dont ask yourself <why>. With asking yourself <why> you are trying to look for the meaning of, or reason behind, your thoughts. You will never find them. If you ask yourself <how come>, you are looking for the cause. That is what you want to find if you want to know yourself.

Edited by Emanyalpsid

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@winterknight

Thanks for the replies. I was just about to ask if you did self inquiry exactly like Ramana Maharshi prescribed. But it seems you've just described it so beautifully!

4 minutes ago, winterknight said:

The recommended technique is Ramana Maharshi's self-inquiry. It's very simple. You know that "I am" right now, right? It's obvious. Well, how do you know it? Where is that feeling coming from? Try to find out where in your experience it is coming from, that certainty that you are. Start in your body. Just like if someone asked you where you were feeling cold, and you searched your experience and said "Oh, my feet are feeling cold." In the same way, ask about the feeling of the "I" that you somehow know with certainty.

And every time you think you know where it's coming from, the rule is that you must ask yourself if you are aware of that thing which you think is the source of the I. If you are, you haven't found the real source yet. So you keep going

If, for example, you say "It's coming from my head" -- well, ask yourself "Well, I am aware of the feeling and sight of my head, right?" Notice that. So where is the "I" that is aware of the head? It's not coming from the head -- it is aware of it. So where is the I feeling? It's just like you notice that there is light in a room, and you're looking for the source of the light. Is it coming from this chair? No. The chair is lit up by something else. Is it coming from that table? Same deal. So keep searching until you find the light bulb. You'll know it when you find it.

Is this what you strived to do all your waking hours? 


I am a deluded fool                                              I want women, gold, fame                                I fear death

I am                                                                         I want                                                                   I fear

I                                                                                I                                                                             I

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't have any more questions for now. Thanks for answering.

Edited by Outer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, winterknight said:

Simply cultivating a state without thought is not enough.

Only though cultivates a state “without” thought as well. To cultivate implies thought itself. 

18 minutes ago, Emanyalpsid said:

Lol, it is like sheeps following a shepherd. Someone claims they are enlightened and *pop any rational thought is left behind, cause here is someone to answer your questions...

No real enlightened teacher will ever answer your questions, because this means you stop thinking for yourself... And this is the opposite of what you should do if you want to reach this state.

I keep being astounded by the nature of it all. Although I can see how this came to be. The desire for enlightenment is so high that one will sacrifice his own thought, as one cant seem to achieve it, by just listening to someone else.

I totally understand what you mean, but what I have learned is if someone thinks they need there questions answered, technique options, and such then they have not yet understood the entirety of the problem itself. When one is this position they don’t have the insight to see what you are saying. To conform to what you are suggesting would be very similar to what is happening here. 

The self does depend on knowledge, it’s experiences, practices, to try and ‘become’ liberated, enlightened, or find truth. It takes a huge insight to see how that fuels self. Maybe 99% of people will have to just find it for themselves. It’s very tricky to stop moving in the pattern of self/mind. Every step mind takes is to keep that continuity moving. 

Edited by Jack River

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, winterknight said:

No worries. And yes, self-inquiry is helpful for that. But for anxiety, I would mainly recommend a) psychodynamic or psychoanalytic therapy and b) expressing your anxiety and emotions in writing/art/music... the more precise you can be with that expression, the better. But therapy is mainly what I'd recommend.

 

interesting, i started writing much more in the past few weeks and im picking up drawing again (a love of mine since childhood but i stopped drawing due to less free time from university

i looked up psychodynamic and psychoanalytic and couldnt find anything in the city i live in but they have Rapid-Eye-Therapy here so i might save up some money for that

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Preetom said:

@winterknight

Thanks for the replies. I was just about to ask if you did self inquiry exactly like Ramana Maharshi prescribed. But it seems you've just described it so beautifully!

Is this what you strived to do all your waking hours? 

Thanks! Not at the beginning but at the end, yes. I encountered Ramana Maharshi a few years into my journey, and understood him only partially. I knew he was profound, but I had to go through a lot of psychological work before I was ready to hear him again, and fully.

Self-inquiry leads to lightbulb moments, glimpses, which one then tries to get to again and again, each time getting easier. 

Self-inquiry at the end melts into surrender, but there is still a bit of effort in that surrender. Finally effortful surrender melts into effortlessness, and effortlessness leads to the permanent Truth.

Actually the glimpses ARE the truth. The problem is simply the mental conditioning that leads you out of them, seemingly.

8 minutes ago, Outer said:

I don't have any more questions for now. Thanks for answering.

My pleasure.

2 minutes ago, moon777light said:

 

interesting, i started writing much more in the past few weeks and im picking up drawing again (a love of mine since childhood but i stopped drawing due to less free time from university

i looked up psychodynamic and psychoanalytic and couldnt find anything in the city i live in but they have Rapid-Eye-Therapy here so i might save up some money for that

All therapies are not the same, unfortunately. What city do you live in?

 


Website/book/one-on-one spiritual guidance: Sifting to the Truth: A New Map to the Self

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@winterknight It is very interesting that you mention therapy as a very helpful aid along the path. I currently started studying psychology cause after looking for a long time, I had a sense that somewhere in this field is my place to help other human beings. 

My mind though always tells me that every approach not integrating the spiritual side is not really fertile. I know it's just an assumption, though this somehow hinders me in seeing where I might specialize later. 

I learned about transpersonal therapy through Leo and it is well recognized. Do you have any experience with this kind of psychology? 
I am just wondering, and maybe other people here have some thoughts about this too, if transpersonal therapy is the closest scientific method to mimic or aid a spiritual path (which then incorporates psychological development as well). 

I can see how psychodynamic therapy and psychoanalysis both have interesting observations regarding the development of the "I" and why it comes to be. I am just not sure if transpersonal psychology is all of the "good" and unconfused stuff of many directions put into one new way of approaching psychology. 

I waited with this question for a long time since I don't know if anyone has the expertise + spiritual and psychological insight to really answer the question. 

Any help is very much appreciated :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

trust in others it's close to the same as trust in yourself, in the end, that's "your I" who trust ?

if you trust the "default position of your "I-ego" thought" after death, you can "remap ego" ( you can even probably eraze the birth ego to the ground )

through the "lens" then differ the "imagination mechanism" because of the default position.

all your "enlightment" has not been yours, but universe itself showing always more to you.

leo is litteraly "us" a manifestation of our "inner energy" what is this "inner energy" besides being the universe itself so kind of you.

it's still thought, but that's a thought when I mirror the reading here.

there is absolutely no low, no high.

non non duality, no duality, it's still your mind construct default position.

the words only have the qualities we apply energicly to them and the model they represent for the "I"

 

there is no word, only music, and a musician. and you're both.

Edited by Strikr

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sbw__MsJZ0

We know nothing, and even, I m not sure. a.V.e

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, winterknight said:

Unfortunately I can't speak with authority about what will optimize happiness in the short-term. Probably close, empathetic relationships with other people, eating the right food, sleeping right, taking care of your health, getting therapy, participating in art, and so on.

Thanks for the answers

Hapiness optimising is the underlying desire beneath but in a more practical way regarding to meditaiton i would say geting more and/or deeper equanimous state / care-free state / silent mind is what i'm looking for
 

Would your answer about what advice/practice you recommend be different in order to improve on those 3 ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, winterknight said:

Thanks! Not at the beginning but at the end, yes. I encountered Ramana Maharshi a few years into my journey, and understood him only partially. I knew he was profound, but I had to go through a lot of psychological work before I was ready to hear him again, and fully.

Self-inquiry leads to lightbulb moments, glimpses, which one then tries to get to again and again, each time getting easier. 

Self-inquiry at the end melts into surrender, but there is still a bit of effort in that surrender. Finally effortful surrender melts into effortlessness, and effortlessness leads to the permanent Truth.

Actually the glimpses ARE the truth. The problem is simply the mental conditioning that leads you out of them, seemingly.

This last line resonates so much. Ramana Maharshi called it samskaras or Vasanas (Mental Tendencies). He insisted that Self Inquiry must be continued in an unbroken fashion until all the seeds of vasanas are burnt!

Thanks again for taking your time and replying 


I am a deluded fool                                              I want women, gold, fame                                I fear death

I am                                                                         I want                                                                   I fear

I                                                                                I                                                                             I

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Jack River

I get what you mean. There should almost be a beginner, intermediate and expert section on this forum so there is some structure and overview. Problem is, everybody would be in the expert section. ;)  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@winterknight Thanks for the answers! I will try doing this inquiry every single day from now on. Is there any other useful psychological field that might be worth looking into? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, peanutspathtotruth said:

@winterknight It is very interesting that you mention therapy as a very helpful aid along the path. I currently started studying psychology cause after looking for a long time, I had a sense that somewhere in this field is my place to help other human beings. 

My mind though always tells me that every approach not integrating the spiritual side is not really fertile. I know it's just an assumption, though this somehow hinders me in seeing where I might specialize later. 

I learned about transpersonal therapy through Leo and it is well recognized. Do you have any experience with this kind of psychology? 
I am just wondering, and maybe other people here have some thoughts about this too, if transpersonal therapy is the closest scientific method to mimic or aid a spiritual path (which then incorporates psychological development as well). 

I can see how psychodynamic therapy and psychoanalysis both have interesting observations regarding the development of the "I" and why it comes to be. I am just not sure if transpersonal psychology is all of the "good" and unconfused stuff of many directions put into one new way of approaching psychology. 

I waited with this question for a long time since I don't know if anyone has the expertise + spiritual and psychological insight to really answer the question. 

Any help is very much appreciated :) 

So I can't really speak to transpersonal therapy, because I don't know enough about it.

I will say that the really healing and powerful thing is the quality of listening attention that manifests in the relationship. As a general matter, I have found that trained psychoanalysis are the best bet for that kind of attention. They tend to have the best and most sophisticated training. But of course they're not the only ones. 

But the most important thing is the fit you feel with the therapist. You should feel within a session or two that to some degree you are being helped.

Actual psychoanalysis is usually 3+ sessions a week. It seems like a lot, but for what it's trying to do, it's not. You could also get the "light" version of that -- psychodynamic psychotherapy -- from a trained analyst. That's usually just once or twice a week. Most analysts do that too.

If you're worried that your analyst will not be respectful of your spiritual path, you can bring that up yourself. But I wouldn't worry about needing an officially integrated psychospiritual therapy. Therapy IS helping your spiritual development automatically by calming and clearing your mind.

11 minutes ago, Jordan94 said:

Thanks for the answers

Hapiness optimising is the underlying desire beneath but in a more practical way regarding to meditaiton i would say geting more and/or deeper equanimous state / care-free state / silent mind is what i'm looking for
 

Would your answer about what advice/practice you recommend be different in order to improve on those 3 ?

Ramana Maharshi's self-inquiry. Follow the path like I outlined it. The Truth IS the only true way to deep equanimity and happiness. There are no shortcuts.

12 minutes ago, Preetom said:

This last line resonates so much. Ramana Maharshi called it samskaras or Vasanas (Mental Tendencies). He insisted that Self Inquiry must be continued in an unbroken fashion until all the seeds of vasanas are burnt!

Thanks again for taking your time and replying 

Yes indeed, that's just so. You're very welcome.
 


Website/book/one-on-one spiritual guidance: Sifting to the Truth: A New Map to the Self

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@winterknight Nice!

I have done and still do Neti-Neti inquiry to the extent I feel like I'm partly becoming insane, sometimes I get so detached that everything just seems like a roleplay, dream, and an invention. I scan my body and see no one, no one seeing through the eyes, the sense of self is there, but also much less than when I started a few years ago. And several times I've had no self, which was pretty terrifying at first, but lessened a lot.

How would you from your experience describe where I am on the path? Like, anything you would recommend? I talked to Peter Ralston and he just told me to continue. I'll sure do, but you got some pointers for me? And also, is it worth it? I am really curious about stuff, and I just seem to gravitate towards this.

Edited by John Lula
add more

"If death causes you no pain when you're dead, it's foolish to allow the fear of it cause you pain now." - Epicurus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, winterknight said:

So I can't really speak to transpersonal therapy, because I don't know enough about it.

I will say that the really healing and powerful thing is the quality of listening attention that manifests in the relationship. As a general matter, I have found that trained psychoanalysis are the best bet for that kind of attention. They tend to have the best and most sophisticated training. But of course they're not the only ones. 

But the most important thing is the fit you feel with the therapist. You should feel within a session or two that to some degree you are being helped.

Actual psychoanalysis is usually 3+ sessions a week. It seems like a lot, but for what it's trying to do, it's not. You could also get the "light" version of that -- psychodynamic psychotherapy -- from a trained analyst. That's usually just once or twice a week. Most analysts do that too.

If you're worried that your analyst will not be respectful of your spiritual path, you can bring that up yourself. But I wouldn't worry about needing an officially integrated psychospiritual therapy. Therapy IS helping your spiritual development automatically by calming and clearing your mind.

Thank you so much!

I have to say though, my question was not really aimed at differentiating those kinds of therapy for my own attending (although I really do think about doing that soon). It was more a question regarding my own path of service and helping other people. I (my ego) is looking for words of experience so I can decide where to specialize in and how to help people. 

I also realize that in the end I will have to find out by myself. And maybe I should ask transpersonal psychologists :D 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, peanutspathtotruth said:

Thank you so much!

I have to say though, my question was not really aimed at differentiating those kinds of therapy for my own attending (although I really do think about doing that soon). It was more a question regarding my own path of service and helping other people. I (my ego) is looking for words of experience so I can decide where to specialize in and how to help people. 

I also realize that in the end I will have to find out by myself. And maybe I should ask transpersonal psychologists :D 

Yes, talk to them and talk to analysts too. And, actually, the best way of finding out is to enter therapy yourself.

Every psychoanalyst has to undergo an analysis themselves, and it is the most important part of their training.

Studying psychology at the undergrad level usually teaches you zero about therapy, and academic psychologists are even hostile to psychoanalysis for historical reasons.


Website/book/one-on-one spiritual guidance: Sifting to the Truth: A New Map to the Self

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now