Drama Alert! Another YTber is calling us a cult! 😈☦️

[Jirh]

48 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

@Rigel you could flip this (to play devils advocate) and claim no one has been kicked out / banned for accusations precisely BECAUSE it would cement the claim of this being a cult. 

That would be a truly paranoid devil 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Jirh damned if you do, damned if you don't 🃏🎭

[zurew]

53 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

What additional facts do you have that relate directly to that suicidal moment ?

I dont have any that Im sure of, because im not sure exactly what was the time when that insta post happened, but we can consider the other bullet points that were mentioned by Carl and decide under which hypothesis all of those facts are more expected.

The Leo having a random suicidal low on a spiritual path or the Leo having psychotic symptoms one. (or people can provide additional hypotheses or you can also claim that you dont want to explain those other facts yet you only want to claim that the insta fact is explained by him being on a spiritual journey)

We can extend the timeline and see that Leo has been claiming to be the most conscious on the planet for years now , claimed to be the standard of epistemology (3-4 years after the insta procedure) and he still demonize and undermines everyone who disagrees with him on the stuff he cares about , and he still havent backed off from claiming to be able to turn into an alien on camera (desptie never being able to show proof of that despite trying),  previous to the insta stuff he had to be extremely pushed to slightly walk back his claim about awakenign being able to heal you completely and solve all of your problems (im pretty sure that in that video , he mentioned that he will try to heal humanity and stuff like that, because he thought he will be able to do that).

And note again about the healing and problem solving claims that the main issue isn't even necessarily that he is agnostic on those claims (because he is not), the main issue is the absolute/extremely high certainty that he outplayed during the times he made those claims and then being reluctant to walk back the claims or to significantly lower his credence about those claims when he is pushed on them.

The same goes for him making claims about how conscious other people are and how he must be more conscious than everyone else - you can look through the links of just this post and think about how much of this is easily explainable on your hypothesis about him just having a spiritual low - and also im curious about how long you want to extend the timeline for that hypothesis.

I think this was also during or close to the insta period, where he  banned a bunch of people and threatened one of the banned person that he will kill him if he wants to corrupt his teachings which in practice just meant disagreeing with Leo on spirituality and disagreeing with Leo being the most conscious person on the planet.

Edited 8 minutes ago by zurew

[Wilhelm44]

4 minutes ago, zurew said:

I dont have any that Im sure of, because im not sure exactly what was the time when that insta post happened, but we can consider the other bullet points that were mentioned by Carl and decide under which hypothesis all of those facts are more expected.

The Leo having a random low on a spiritual path or the Leo having psychotic symptoms one. (or people can provide additional hypotheses or you can also claim that you dont want to explain those other facts yet you only want to claim that the insta fact is explained by him being on a spiritual journey)

We can extend the timeline and see that Leo has been claiming to be the most conscious on the planet for years now , claimed to be the standard of epistemology (3-4 years after the insta procedure) and he still demonize and undermines everyone who disagrees with him on the stuff he cares about , and he still havent backed off from claiming to be able to turn into an alien on camera (desptie never being able to show proof of that despite trying),  previous to the insta stuff he had to be extremely pushed to slightly walk back his claim about awakenign being able to heal you completely  and solving all of your problems (im pretty sure that in that video , he mentioned that he will try to heal humanity and stuff like that, because he thought he will be able to do that).

During the insta period he also banned a bunch of people and threatened one of the banned person that he will kill him if he wants to corrupt his teachings which in practice just meant disagreeing with Leo on spirituality and disagreeing with Leo being the msot conscious person on the planet.

Fair enough.

(I guess I just got triggered in the moment, I wouldn't want someone describing a suicidal event of mine as proof that I might not be a suitable leader. But I hear what you're saying.)

[zurew]

1 minute ago, Wilhelm44 said:

Fair enough.

(I guess I just got triggered in the moment, I wouldn't want someone describing a suicidal event of mine as proof that I might not be a suitable leader. But I hear what you're saying.)

I understand the feeling when you are being unfairly psychoanalized, especially when vulnerable moments of yours are weaponized against you, but I think that in this case it is directly relevant to the question at hand (about whether he has psychotic tendencies or not).

[Carl-Richard]

5 hours ago, Wilhelm44 said:

Where is the best place on the internet, for people who are serious about spirituality, to hangout ?

What kind of question is this? There is a difference between pointing out an example and excluding all other possible examples. That's a bit of something you call "epistemology".

 

4 hours ago, Wilhelm44 said:

I wasn't aware of this. I think most people here have had suicidal moments at one point or another. Using that as proof of psychotic tendencies is a bit of a low blow.

Let's assume Leo was not suicidal before being seemingly under the influence (which would be a reasonable assumption considering his overall state of mind on the forum and in videos). Then while seemingly under the influence, he suddenly started seriously entertaining suicide.

If he did not seriously entertain suicide in his sober state of mind, would it be fair to say he started entertaining some beliefs that were not grounded in his usual wants and desires and thus they were in a sense delusional and not grounded in the usual state of affairs and thus psychotic?

"He was not in a right state of mind, he didn't really want to take his life, it was the drugs that made him do it". What does one call that? A drug-induced psychotic episode? Or do you have a different term for that?

 

4 hours ago, Wilhelm44 said:

If you're comparing Leo to a cult leader who lost it and decided that one of the members needed to be killed because they have negative energy, then my sense is that you might be underestimating him a bit.

Suggested* Again, all it takes is one thought, just like a suicidal thought. And as we've seen, that thought could seemingly come out of nowhere given the right conditions.

 

4 hours ago, Wilhelm44 said:

As far as the members that got banned, the only name I recognized there was Nahm. From what I recall he seemed to struggle to string together two coherent sentences at times. However conscious or not he may have been, he was mostly confusing to people, so I was not that sorry to see him go.

Yet Leo constantly accuses people of "not understanding" and that is not a grounds for banning himself. A standard for thee but not for me. I personally got the most value from Nahm's post than anybody on the forum.

 

4 hours ago, Wilhelm44 said:

As far as the other issues go, I hope you and Leo sort things out, because my gut says he still has some valuable stuff to teach.

More shoulds, more false dichotomies. He can have valueable things to teach and still have things he can improve.

Edited 3 minutes ago by Carl-Richard