Drama Alert! Another YTber is calling us a cult! 😈☦️

[Wilhelm44]

4 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

And it's really curious, because like I said, me and probably others did not (as far as I can remember) feel personally threatened or exploited in personal interactions with the leader, but despite that, it evolved to a place where a suggested solution was to essentially remove somebody from the surface of the Earth. So we went quickly from what somebody like you guys in the thread (at least earlier) would be very firm is not a cult, to a Manson or Jim Jones situation. All through some odd beliefs and a charismatic leader presenting them as an option with their conviction and trance-inducing charisma.

Don't you think though that the heavy emphasis that Leo has placed on teaching epistemology etc should ensure that something like that could never happen here ?

 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Wilhelm44 said:

Don't you think though that the heavy emphasis that Leo has placed on teaching epistemology etc should ensure that something like that could never happen here ?

That reason that won't happen here is because I won't allow it. If I allowed it, it could happen.

Actualized.org is focused entirely on education. There will not be any other nonsense here.

Edited 8 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Carl-Richard]

2 hours ago, Wilhelm44 said:

Don't you think though that the heavy emphasis that Leo has placed on teaching epistemology etc should ensure that something like that could never happen here ?

The leader of the Discord was an ex-forum member. And many of the members were recruited from the forum.

[Human Mint]

3 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

I felt existentially threatened and rattled for years after the cult. Why the need to delegitimize people's experiences? Why the need to make denigrating comparisons? Could it be that there are different kinds of cults, different reasons why one would be compelled to call something a cult? Maybe actually study what a cult is on your own without soelly relying on the videos by your cult leader.

Could it be that your experience made you paranoid about this place?

[integral]

All the moderators here are in fact given a kill switch, if we all press it at the same time Leo gets Perma Banned.

This is how serious we are about cultish resurections  

[Yali]

35 minutes ago, integral said:

All the moderators here are in fact given a kill switch, if we all press it at the same time Leo gets Perma Banned.

 

Are you serious?

 

Edited 6 hours ago by Yali

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

37 minutes ago, integral said:

All the moderators here are in fact given a kill switch, if we all press it at the same time Leo gets Perma Banned.

And he's then got a button for ressurection, I assume?😀

[integral]

1 hour ago, NewKidOnTheBlock said:

And he's then got a button for ressurection, I assume?😀

Assumption correct. But Leo must first prove to us that he has regained his Epistemic honor.

Edited 4 hours ago by integral

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, integral said:

All the moderators here are in fact given a kill switch, if we all press it at the same time Leo gets Perma Banned.

Keep dreaming.

Edited 4 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Raze]

If you look up the standards for a cult just about any institution in society and society as a whole fit it.

 

[Carl-Richard]

4 hours ago, Human Mint said:

Could it be that your experience made you paranoid about this place?

What exactly do you mean?

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Raze said:

If you look up the standards for a cult just about any institution in society and society as a whole fit it.

This is for people who have not actually learned what a cult is.

As I keep telling you guys, cults involve mind control.

Instead of all this back-and-forth, you could just read the books on my book list about cults and understand.

Edited 3 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Joseph Maynor]

The power of someone who controls a finite system is what it is no matter what they say they are in relation to you.  

[UnbornTao]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

This is for people who have not actually learned what a cult is.

As I keep telling you guys, cults involve mind control.

Instead of all this back-and-forth, you could just read the books on my book list about cults and understand.

Yes, master.

It's not a cult.

Edited 23 minutes ago by UnbornTao

[zurew]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Instead of all this back-and-forth, you could just read the books on my book list about cults and understand.

Instead of doubling down and trying to shove down your one highly specific and conveniently declared defintion of cult inside everyone's throats in a way where you also imply that everyone who disagree with you on that must be wrong and there is no room for disagreement -  you can just stop playing  superiority games and you can just stop undermining literally everyone else's takes and views on things you care about and these threads are gonna die very quick and they will lose all of their appeal.

 its very very easy for you to stop , but you choose to continue. You continue to play superiority games and you continue to undermine everyone's sovereignty except the ones who agree with you perfectly on things you personally care about.

This is all on you. 

You can at any given moment : stop declaring yourself to be the exclusive and proper standard of epistemology , and stop explicitly saying and stop implying that everyone else is spiritually and or cognitively impaired for disagreeing with you on matters that you care about and you can stop at any moment declaring yourself to be the most conscious human being in the universe.

 

 

Make it very clear, that your belief  about you being the most conscious human being in the Universe and about you accessing the highest states relies on you making assumptions about data that you dont have any access to. You dont have any access to anyone's history on how conscious they are or what states they achieved or what awakening they have had  - you rely on making inferences about those things based on your trips and based on your awakenings . But you know this very well, that making inferences  is not a foolproof epistemic activity, and you know very well, that inferences are subject to be wrong, and you would never ever in your life (including your fans) accept or entertain such an inference to be made by any other spiritual teacher (let alone by any of your non-suckup members), so stop pretending that its a legitimate move  and stop pretending that that claim of yours is unshakeable and that you have grounds to make that claim in any definitive way.

None of the suckups here who rhetorically ask the question of "but how do you know that Leo is wrong about him being the most conscious being in the Universe" ask the same question to themselves in a way where the subject of that question (Leo) is changed to a different person . Leo cant answer this question in any definitive way either  , but for some reason the suckups pretend and demand from non-suckups to give a definitive answer to that question, because if they cant, then they must be closed minded and must not be doing the "real" work.

Most non-suckups dont make the claim that they definitively know that Leo isn't the most conscious being in the Universe, they rather say that no one knows who is the most conscious being in the Universe, because no one has access to all the relevant data to make that evaluation (and this is aside from the obvious issue that there is no definitive and indepedent answer about what standard should even be used to make the evaluation in the firstplace).

To be very very clear on this - Its the suckups and Leo who pretend that they know beyond any doubt what standard needs to be used for that evaluation  and its the suckups and Leo who make that leap of faith (about Leo being the most conscious being in the Universe) and they are the ones who diss non-suckups for not doing the same.

 

 

Ask yourself this question - Why must everyone hold the belief that Leo is the most conscious human being in the Universe?

If the answer to that is that none of that is necessary, then why continue to engage in that dynamic and why continue to contribute to such dynamic ? A dynamic, that creates more blind suckups and a dynamic, that creates an idol from Leo and distract people away from doing the work.

Why is it not enough to make the claim that there might be more that can be achieved (for instance, if they did x,y,z spiritual practices)? If the answer to that is "because they are the kind of bunch who are not open to the fact that they can be wrong and that there is more" - in that case, explain to us how is your solution helpful in persuading those people (those, who actually belong in the closed-minded category) by making yourself to be an idol?

Leo tell us again, why is the idolization of yourself is necessary to achieve any of your goals?

Leo also tell us a story about how you banning people and how you threatening that you will ban them (if they dare to disagree with you on the fact that you are not the most conscious being in the Universe and or that you might be wrong about spirituality ) contributes and contributed to their development, contributes and contributed to their wellbeing?

Leo tell us a story about how you treating everyone like a retarded child the moment they disagree with you on things you care about helps them in any way at all?

Leo tell us why you treat your non-suckup moderators like this and tell us how  playing these mind games on them help them in any way at all?

Why not for once in your life -  answer these questions plainly in detail with actual substance  without redirecting, without accusing people of not understanding or being purportedly disrespectful for having a different opinion?

Edited 14 minutes ago by zurew