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Our emotions are quicker than our deliberate thinking and that can be dangerous in being impulsive. I've been close to suicide in the past and the idea of possibly being worse off in the lower Astral realms was a factor in my not going through with it. I'm glad I didn't. I don't know any of your story or your trials but life is precious. Hope you can unwind some of your dilemma and experience something that gives you some hope or peace.

They always say the relapse rate is high, and it sort of becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. some people have major relapses in depression every 2/3/5 years, and it only takes one successful attempt of suicide to actually remove your existence...

@Skanzi wow, I've never thought of it this way.... suicide as a form of survival would that mean suicidal desires = ego's way to call for help/ attention?

My real spiritual quest began when I was 18, I just enlisted into the Israeli Army, and was training to become a warrior. A couple of months in I started to experience terrible panic attacks, anxiety, and depression, I was eventually released after a suicide attempt, while being diagnosed as a dependant personality. I had very little hope of ever being happy. I didn’t realize at the time that the episodes were in fact the beginning of a spiritual awakening. At 20, I was on many different meds, trying to solve this externally. I haven't had a clue then, that what I experienced was actually a yearn for God. I didn’t even consider the possibility that spirituality was a viable solution and that it was actually the true cure. It was years before I found out. 5 years of meds didn’t work, so I tried medicating myself with drugs, alcohol and a long 3 and a half years of toxic and codependent relationship. I accepted my fate and had lived for years in a stable moderate depressive state. To my incredible luck, 6 years ago I accidentally saw Leo’s video about curing depression. I remember that moment vividly when he said that when a person is in a deep meditative state he experiences bliss, therefore Bliss is the deeply buried basic emotion in each of us. This was a shocking discovery for me. In my total desperation and surrender, I was excited to try something new and different as a solution to my problem. Very soon the effects of meditation started to come and I was truly hopeful for the first time in 6 years of absolute misery. I've committed to this journey completely, watched every video Leo’s got, and practiced all the incredible principles and practices as well as I could. Following Leo’s radical open mindedness principle, I also found a 12 steps fellowship that deals specifically with Codependency, and it too was incredibly beneficial to my recovery. 12 steps is very simple and useful tool for shadow work and spiritual awakening. Nowadays, I’m coaching a new friend in recovery and it seems like there’s progress. Today I experience happiness 90% of the time, and I’ve almost forgotten how depression and anxiety actually feel. I’m deeply passionate about personal development, and have a steady spiritual growth. I’m running a few blogs for different audiences. I enjoy every moment and see the magic of existence. It’s amazing when you start seeing your own happiness expanding outwards to the people around you. Thank you for reading, I hope to see more recovery stories from you too.

I support this! Chronic (so when your body has become used to it) coffee drinking correlates with lower rates of depression and much lower rates of suicide, and a host of other health benefits. It's worth questioning the conventional narrative around places like this that coffee is a naughty habit. When you do start drinking it, pay attention to how it works for you, if you like it or not. You can avoid the problems with breath and teeth yellowing by brushing your teeth in the morning after you have your cup. It's a good habit to brush your teeth in the morning anyways.

@Tony 845 there were 2 non dual teachers that committed suicide. People on here just don’t understand the difference between non duality and liberation. david spero, adyashanti, Anthony de Mello, jan esmann, and many of these people will tell you most you guys are just falling for the “enlightenment pitch”. Liberation does exist but it comes way after non duality or what enlightenment is described as here.

@Serotoninluv Hey look alot of people on this forum are real quick to take a substance in hopes of reaching something, just asking questions over here guys..there’s not a whole lot of proof in the pudding, that’s all I’m saying. but then again anyone can say they are enlightened, so there’s goes that idea as well. Ever hear of the guy that claims he was enlightened in the woods by watching a frog for like 2 hours then committed suicide like 5 years later?‍♂️

I watched the videos that try to explain non-duality to rational-minded people. Forgive me for being candid, but as a rational-minded person myself, I didn't find those at all satisfying. I felt rather that I was listening to someone who knew what they were talking about, but whose language I didn't understand. Bridging the gap between systems of understanding is never easy. Now, I have never experienced non-duality, that much is certain, and it was for that reason I sought out those videos. Still, as far as a rational conceptualization goes, I don't think it would be too hard to lead someone to a logical acknowledgement of it, at the very least. With the caveat that I have no idea what I'm talking about. The boundaries we percieve between things are mostly semantic and mostly drawn for practical purposes. We draw distinctions between things to communicate effectively with each other. When we refer to a tree, for example talking about a Christmas tree, we do not stop to ponder the distinction between the stem and leaves, between the branches and the roots. What matters is the idea of a tree as a whole. In other contexts however, we do draw the distinction between leaves and the rest of the tree, for example talking about how the leaves fall to the ground when autumn comes. Similarily, when we talk about the dangers of the forest, we do not care about the individual trees and the distinction between them. We draw boundaries between things as boundaries between things become necessary for us to percieve and communicate. At the same time, we acknowledge physical laws. As far as we know, the universe behaves mechanistically and predictably. When a rock tumbles down a hill and collides with a second rock, that rock is set in motion. When someone with a particular personality style feels insecure, they may withdraw to test the loyalty of another person. That other person with another particular personality style may react fearfully when the first person withdraws, and follows after them. On a larger scale, when someone commits suicide, it causes pain in a whole range of individuals that were connected to that person. Those sorrowful individuals again cause unrest in their own social circles as they ventilate their feelings. In this way, we can see that actions cause ripples. In this way, we can see emotions as forces that propagate through individuals, almost as spirits that have a life of their own. Abstracting up concepts like this, we can see the universe as consisting of forces that push and pull at each other, like yin and yang, and the universe becomes one big pond with different waves that cause ripples in it, however, we can abstract even higher. Two boxers in a ring: one punches and the other dodges. Cause and effect, but their behavior is also connected. For everyday purposes, we draw a distinction between them, but we can just as easily remove the distinction if we want to. The two boxers are moving with each other as if they were one. If everything in the universe follows naturally from causes, then one can also imagine away these boundaries, and simply see everything as one. If I were to interpret this through the lens of Spiral Dynamics, then I'd say stage Yellow is seeing all the phenomena in the universe as existing in system with each other, like in the example with the suicide, and stage Turquoise as being able to erase all the artificial boundaries between these systems, between cause and effect, and simply realizing that everything has always been moving as one, indeed, that everything is one. I may not have experienced non-duality, but I can logically grasp that it is true, or at least logically grasp that it's a valid way of looking at the world. It's quite fascinating to look at reality with this in mind, but it requires considerable effort on my part, and I don't feel like I'm able to push through with the understanding into an actual experience of it. This is the same way I interpret Brahman in Hinduism. You can logically understand it, but to really get it, you have to reflect on the mystery until everything is integrated. This is how I see the lay of the land, as someone who is only using logic to deduce my way forward, simply anticipating the revelation. Now feel free to criticize it.

It seems like the only way to become ego-less/ enlightened is to use the "existing ego" to "hack" ourselves into pursuing enlightenment, just as Leo puts it in his video on "the benefit of enlightenment", Leo really has a thing in "luring" us unconscious people into personal development by appealing to our egos - with "enlightenment" we will stop caring about what people think, since we realise the nothing-ness of ourselves/ the vastness of the universe, etc. And for eckhart tolle, it seems from what he says, that the reason he became "egoless" was because his ego inflicted too much pain on himself, that he ultimately was able to break away from ego... but doesn't this go in the contrary of what Sadhguru says that "suffering will not seek"? I feel like, that unconsciously I may have the drive to become "egoless" by inflicting pain on myself, since I think I need to suffer like the normal person, and need intense suffering (to the point of suicide) before I "deserve" enlightenment... But isn't that also the life of "Buddha" as a prince? He saw "suffering" as a need to complete his hero's journey... And it seems like the catch-22 thing is, how I manage to "get out of depression" in the past/ have a fulfilling day was when there was some unconscious "triggers" that motivated to wake up/ get out of the house...then the depressed mood kind of goes away "naturally"...the counter-intuitive thign is, you can't think of "acceptance" in order to feel acceptance...goddammit

Open-mindedness, intuition, vulnerability, willigness, faith, vision etc Most people don't value or train those abilities, thinking enlightenment will be attained by "x" number of hours on the cushion. The real work is to unfuck yourself of your thoughts and emotions patterns (which is a 24/7 practice), not to be at peace 20 minutes a day sitted on your bed. Also, most people don't suffered enough, and therefore don't see any interest to feel better, since they think they are happy. Or they aren't interested in metaphysical questions, which is totally understandable since we're at stage orange worldwide. Eckhart Tolle is a bad example, the reason he got enlightened in 1 night is because he was suffering so much, that he couldn't stand living with "himself" anymore. Very few people would have an enlightenment experience instead of committing suicide with such an experience.

He is a funny guy. He was alcoholic most of his life and homeless 9 times. Contemplated a suicide +10 times. Kind of gives hope to regular people

@Leo Gura Obviously, she is questionable. As many people are. But the fact that every single allegation is answered directly by her, in this video. Means that you should at least watch and listen to the person your are gossiping and speculating about. Before offering any leaping judgements. I don't often comment on here, unless it's something I care or feel strongly about. And this woman is such an authentic person. She lays her cards on the table. All of them. Unlike some spiritual teachers that claim to be some kind of perfect, enlightenment master, who everyone should bow down to. And hide their real self, in fear of damaging their 'rep' She is also very, very brave and confronts some incredible tricky topics such as suicide, pedophilia and cancer. In a balanced, practical and honest way. Her material is rich with wisdom and multi - perspectives, which is beyond many people unfortunately. But there we go. That is why I suggest finding out for yourself instead of gossiping about an article. You are ALL missing a gem of a human being here. Be careful of those blind spots.

I understand the paradox. If the ego is based on survival, then how is wanting to commit suicide a form of survival? I'm actually not entirely sure, but if I had to speculate it is that the ego-mind has a greater need for survival than the physical body. Hence it's why people are willing to die for certain values or ideologies. It also fits with the idea of reincarnation that we take many different bodies but the ego-mind persists throughout all of them. The mind is a bit more complex than the more basic survival needs of the body. The ego-mind also wants to survive, but it is not always realistic about what true survival entails. People craving drugs for instance, certainly don't have a better chance at survival if they are using drugs. Certain drugs over tome destroy a lot of mechanisms in the body making you more prone to disease and death. The ego-mind's survival is more about pleasure and pain on a mental level. Pleasure and pain is the guideline for the organism about how to survive. What the ego-mind considers to be something that would give it pleasure (like approval, status, knowledge, wealth etc...), it sees as something that helps for its survival, and something that is interpreted as undesirable it wants to escape. And the mind is so sophisticated that it can first create pain or fear, and then once again it resists the fear and pain that often it itself created, making itself go in a loop. Strangely enough, the survival mechanism of the mind that originally came from the body, is a survival mechanism that wants to escape itself. Usually it escapes its own discomfort by distraction and delusion, which at the same time was feeding the discomfort to begin with. Suicidal desires is indeed a form of survival, as paradoxical as that may sound. It's not for the survival of the body. but for the survival of the mind, which wants to escape pain.

@Mikael89 Thank you for sharing. Was it like recurrent thoughts of suicide in your case?

what i mean is, if the ego wants you to survive, why would it drive to human suicide? my guess is that the ego values identity more than it does the "survive", in some sense we have evolved to a point where our ego learns to value symbolic things (identity, status, relationship) more than it does physically

I had a glimpse of enlightenment and now I'm trying to rebuild my life. I had a neurosis that everything I did had to have a purpose , now I see how fake all that is. I don't want to slip into depressed insanity. I need to do something constructive because I'm destroying my life. I was on the verge of suicide last night, but that's too selfish. I don't want to do something "productive" that I actually won't be doing consistently because that would just fuck me up even more - I don't want to be like everyone else, starting something then not finishing it. But I need to do something constructive . I'm in college but my mental state is just too chaotic to study. Please help I'm really desperate everything shattered! And now I have a life ahead of me. What the fuck do I do?

From what I've read, the balance tips at about 6 cups of coffee per day! I can't imagine drinking that much, but beyond six cups the risks outweigh the benefits. This is talking purely in broad terms like life expectancy and cancer rates, and doesn't account for less measurable things like jitters, anxiety, tooth yellowing, quality of sleep and so on - all of which are also valid points against coffee! So does your prostate! Coffee is rich in antioxidants and reduces risk of other cancers as well. Lower risk of suicide - half the risk of suicide amongst coffee drinkers. Lower rates of depression as well, at least in women. May help prevent type 2 diabetes https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/319348.php Reduced risk of alzheimers and parkinsons https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/11/181105160825.htm Reduced risk of cardiovascular disease https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/circulationaha.113.005925 Less chance of dying with a 10-15% lower risk of death over a decade vs. non drinkers https://www.aarp.org/health/healthy-living/info-2018/coffee-longevity-health-benefits.html Enhanced attention and vigilance Tastes good and is enjoyable Of course, if you don't like it, that's fine you don't have to drink it. But do you really want to risk dying? From what I've read, black tea with milk is probably even better than coffee, black tea without milk is better yet, and even better yet is green tea (no milk of course). I'm not sure how it compares to mate, but I suspect mate and green tea are on par. Some of the health benefits mentioned above are specific to coffee however, but on the other hand green tea has even greater and different benefits, so green tea should be regarded as the ultimate healthy stimulant beverage. Plus it doesn't stain your teeth.

Spend lots of time engaging in other productive activities that will turn you into a much more qualified person. Quit objectifying women, start seeing them as human beings. Much higher confidence, trust and pride in self. Be a free man who wanders at will. No more a desperate slave with no control over self-fate. Start feeling these intense emotions all the time, instead of being numbed to the beautiful world around you. No more the walking dead. Much less procrastinating. Get things done on time, resulting in much higher success at work or in school. No more scared to let other people use your computer, no more fears of being caught. Burst with newfound energy. Run Forrest Run. Start - possibly for the first time since puberty - to really love yourself for who you are. The self that you always loved but unfortunately kept locked away in a self-built prison in your body, now has the opportunity to break free and come out. Grow that child into a man. You will find peace of mind in him. Much less depression. You’ll keep finding yourself feeling happy and positive for no apparent reasons, at the same situations where you used to feel worried and distressed before. This is because no matter what, you know you have given your best. Regain that long lost ability of actually falling truely, madly, deeply in love with someone. Caution! Get ready to shed some tears, because you may end up desperately thinking about that one SO, instead of getting hypnotized stupid by all that fabricated and useless, zombified novelty in porn. Grow the ability to maintain a healthy long-term relationship where you can actually be trustworthy, dependable and reliable and can deserve to receive the same treatment in return. THE ED. Inevitably caused by the PMO addiction. Need I say more? NEED I SAY MORE? After a long enough streak, you will see that people around you will start caring more about you. The reason for this is that, before NoFap, one half of you was completely missing from their sight. That one half was busy wasting himself away in a life of secrecy built on shame. He was not present. That half of you did not exist in the real world. And the other half that did exist in the real world was constantly insecure and double minded in his attitude, never being able to give his best because of the PMO addiction. Now people will start to care more about you because you will be at least twice more present in their lives. And when I say present, I mean PRESENT. INFLUENTIAL. IMPRESSIVE. Increased overall physical health, because you are keeping your sperm in your body. Read about it. You can add to that health by actively working out too you know, which you probably will, because NoFap is much harder without hitting the gym anyway. Get. In. Shape! Master your knowledge on how the plastic structure of your brain impacts your behavior. This new modern insight into neuroplasticity is an eventual and positive side effect of doing NoFap through YBOP and will have its positive impact on every aspect of your life depending on what you do with it. Be much more creative than before. You are forcing your brain to leave its biggest comfort zone. That means it has to come up with new neuron pathways to survive. Those new pathways mean new ideas. New ideas mean better creativity in whatever you are keeping your brain busy with. Innovate your life. An immense increase in willpower. One badass lion of willpower. How hard could anything be, compared to quitting PMO? No match ever. No barriers could stand a chance against you. Attention Magnetism. If you’re doing it right, you will inevitably be radiating all this positive energy wherever you go and everyone - especially ladies - will be noticing you out of nowhere. They will look at you, they will want to talk to you. It’s serious and works like a charm, but when you come to think of it, it's nothing magical really: Nature runs its course when you run yours. Piece of cake to initiate dialogues, especially after a certain point. You don’t even have to think about it. Much less self-consciousness. No more of that creepy feeling of two personalities one of which you always have to hide and makes you feel like you'd almost rather commit suicide than found out. Honest with self, honest with all. You are one and whole and complete. No, you are never complete and will never be. Always room for development, since you have the time and the energy it takes to improve yourself in any aspect. Get rid of other bad habits as well. NoFap initiates the good domino effect for your life. Be 1 in a 1,000,000. Really. Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/NoFap/comments/19bl70/25_reasons_to_do_nofap/ NoFap website Porn addiction basics Rebooting basics I'M ONLY AT 2 WEEKS AND IT FEELS AMAZING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

@Shin What I mean by it is quite literally “conflict”. When you are hungry, that’s a conflict to resolve. When you need sleep, that’s conflict. When you need money - conflict. The acquisition of material objects - conflict. Needing love. Even needing to breath. Arguing over certain things. Wanting to get an opinion across. Trying to appear a certain way socially. Having to abide to social constructs and rules. Being able to pay bills. Trying to become enlightened. Practicing spirituality. And so on and so on... You see? Everything is in a sense a conflict to resolve. So, if there’d be no conflict whatsoever, life wouldn’t even be worth living. That’s what I’m saying. What there is to draw from that would be that upon realising it, you’re free like never before!? Because you now know why you’d do anything in your life at all. It’s all conflict, and your challenge as a human being is to resolve it somehow. And if it all gets too much, well, then suicide is gonna be your method of resolvement. And back you go again, starting all anew...

indiana jones and the questionable finale. Here's the final update on my squirrely friend, Indiana Jones: I chose option 3. He went to the wild animal shelter to hang out and eat nuts for a few days. Once the temperature rises to a reasonable level, the volunteers will release him into the wild. I had no idea about that last bit; I hoped that he could stay there through the winter. But alas, what's done is done. The forty-minute drive was one of my most outrageously beautiful moments this year. There I was, driving in snowy subzero weather on a road that looked half-ravaged by nuclear winter, listening to "True North" by S. Carey. No other cars in sight. The light growing dim, enveloped in the mysterious unknown of the nighttime. And in the car seat next to me, Indiana Jones under the American blanket, silent but listening. I explained to Jones what it's like to be human. How we perceive ourselves as separate from our environment due to having an ego. How the ego causes all our suffering, that being our greatest gift because it allows for deeper self-awareness. How with self-awareness comes the realization of being God in form. How we can choose to pursue embodying this realization instead of focusing solely on survival, because we've designed human systems that allow us to do so. How animals like him supposedly don't have that capacity, which is the defining difference between human and animal. I loved talking to Jones, because he had no choice to listen. Then I realized I was talking to a squirrel. The rest of the drive was spent listening to the music. He was a champ. When we arrived, I said my goodbye, and thanked him for his teachings. Upon further contemplation, I realize that my remorse does not only come from the thought that maybe a quick death for Jones would have been better. My remorse also stems from the fact that this whole ordeal is very reminiscent of what happened with my friend who committed suicide four years ago. I triggered him one night, he assaulted me, I got him arrested and into a court date, which he skipped and decided to kill himself instead. I couldn't seem to disregard the thought that I was somehow involved in my friend's actions. I felt guilty and immense self-hatred the first couple years after it happened, and it's only recently that I feel like I reached the surface and got some fresh air. But apparently that deep emotional pain of guilt was still unresolved, as Jones dug it out of me. I'm glad he did. As I sit in this drafty cabin with the subzero wind chills assaulting all four walls, I can't help but laugh at the absurdity, the beauty, and the challenges of this human experience. Sometimes, I just want to punch a hole in the wall and run away. But today, I say thank you. Dear God, whose name I do now know...thank you for my life. I forgot...how...BIG. Thank you. Thank you for my life.

Hah, so fascinating. It works so beautifully in both ways. Either there's absolutely no conflict to resolve and you would thereby have no reason to exist or you find that there's way too much conflict in your life than you could handle - and then commit suicide. Therefore, human beings are essentially just conflict-resolution-machines. God... there's really nothing else to do than to enjoy the ride.... and everything's fine all along the way. Beautiful.

Because you have the amazing awakening experience and then you can have nothing. It is like a roller coaster, you have gone up to this amazing peak and then you go down....and down... and into a trough. The thought of suicide has come up maybe 4 times since my initial awakening. There have been lengthy periods of depression for me especially when meditation unearths supressed trauma memories. Fortunatly for me when I hit rock bottom I always notice that my ego mind is running the show; depression is just the ego mind's reaction. If you get good at catching the mind at work you can somewhat avoid these problems.

You missed the irony, i was reflecting his own approach back to him. Saying everything is source and everything the way it should be and then following up with an argument or "case" for meat eating is like saying this movie is perfect, everything is the way it should be except, if the villain wasn't in this movie, it would be better. So this is hypocrisy by definition, what you guys actually mean is everything is source when i want to prove an argument, but then conveniently i'll ignore this fact when my ego wants to make an opposing argument, that reality is not perfect and needs to change. It doesn't look wise, it looks like a scapegoat, I'd suggest not using the everything is "source" card if you want to follow up with an argument or "case". Its basically like saying everything is perfect but.... then obviously it isn't perfect, if it was, there wouldn't be a but. Its actually a paradox. Source ingrains every living creature with life, all of natures sole objectively is to thrive and grow with life. Your entire human body it made up of billions of alive cells run by source. And yet the dysfunctional ego can commit suicide. If you are enlightened you will be 100% for life not indifference, sorry you guys totally misunderstood detachment. But you wont get it because you're nihilistic fundamentally, you seem to think all of life is meaningless, unless you assign it meaning, but if you observe source carefully you will see with or without your ego metal mind it does things, pay attention to those things. Those things have meaning because its what creates existence. Which is the ultimate meaning.

@Shan My pleasure I am based in NZ but have some knowledge of the Aus system too. In terms of understanding your results, your doc should give you a call to come back to the clinic and discuss everything, if they don't, you should be able to book another appointment for them to talk about your results with them in detail. That is what happens in NZ, I would be surprised if it didn't happen in Aus. This is where you will have to do a lot of trial and error testing. SSRI's are recommended because they get people from depression to a baseline zombie state, where they don't feel bad, but don't feel good either (this is for the purpose of actually being able to do some talk therapy or cognitive behavioural therapy without constant thoughts of suicide etc.) Docs should not be prescribing SSRI's indefinitely. And again, docs focus on getting you to baseline, not necessarily really great. IMO nootropics are VERY personal and work based on your brain chemistry. I tried dopamine and it made me nauseous without much improvement (you have dopamine receptors in your gut as well). I tried 5-HTP and it made me feel a bit more focussed and feeling good. On the other hand, my gf has depression and was on SSRI's as well. She took some 5-HTP (when she was NOT on SSRI's - DON'T mix SSRI's with anything unless a doctor has advised it) and felt amazing, in a way better mood, without brain fog. Obviously she responded to it better than I because her depression may stem from underexcretion of serotonin or a lack somewhere in that pathway, as you may know. Every person is different. The hard work for you will be doing this self-experimentation. Buy a bunch of the supps and try them one by one, then when you've tried it for a while, maybe try a combination (again DON'T mix with prescription drugs unless given the all clear by a doc). See what works and what doesn't. You body is unique and your biochemical pathways will vary compared to other people so it's up to you to experiment. No one will really be able to give you a customised plan because again, everyone is different. They will just put you through trial and error as you can yourself. If you want to be extra cautious I would get the guidance of a doc to make sure your combination of nootropics won't hurt you significantly (you can get into trouble with mixing serotonin based nootropics - read up on serotonin syndrome). Try one for a month (some take time to build up), try another one for a month, etc. etc. Excelling in life is a long term path, don't rush it it's to be enjoyed All the best in your journey, post up some results in the next 6 months or so if you feel like sharing

As wavy pointed out it is a 100,000 population survey (but increase in population and the problems of it can still affect the numbers which I won't go into here). I think you're stuck in your "suicide is a conspiracy idea for fake news" My point is, as population increases all death tolls in all areas will increase not just suicide. So I understand what you're saying, it's not rocket science. I already knew what you meant and know that 1/100 and 2/200 is the same odds. Forget the graph for a second and read the article from the world organisation I linked. It is still the 2nd most caused death between 15-29 year olds across the world. Second to accident. In the most comfortable era with technology. So regardless of 1/100 or 2/200 the overall ratio of suicide should have gone down as the world improved, there is definitely a lack of fulfillment like Sadhguru was mentioning.