Search the Community

The Neti-Neti Methode is pretty cool I think but I haven't done it enough to say much about it.

@meow_meow for me i just realized nothingness by doing this simple technique called neti-neti. It's very simple and powerful. So this is how it goes. Do you see any things? Example I see chair is the chair me? No I'm not the chair i can be aware of the chair. Okay am i the seeing? No I'm not seeing itself, I'm aware of the sight. Okay am i the thought? No, I'm aware of the thought so awareness and the object cannot be the same. Okay am i the awareness itself, watch out its a thought and you eliminated it who are you then what you're left with. And yeah super important thing is whatever you become aware of it is not you becuase you're the one who's aware of it. You gotta realize this and you would have that insight that you're nothing! This worked super fine for me, hope you get it! cheers!!

Don't know where to start - but this is actually everything a spiritual seeker must know: How to raise ones frequency of consciousness (or in other words) minimize the radius of the self-refernce circuit. So what do I exactly mean by that? Given the assumptiom that everything is one / you are everything/ there is only that, the only way to interact with so-called reality is by yourself/ through yourself/ with yourself. So you are seer/ seeing / seen, subject/ process/ object, receiver/ medium/ information, these triads are closed circuits. When identification happens, the triad apparently splits apart. Let's try to find a metaphora for it even though it's just a fairy tale of course: Imagine "you" are sitting in a train and watch the train tracks. Your look is statically focused into nothing (particular), you watch the train tracks passing by forever and ever. In this state you are completely one with the scene. There is no mind, no body. Just "train tracks passing by" is happening. You are not really in the train, you actually are the train, the process of watching and the train tracks itself. Nothing complicated here. Then, one day, a thought arises like: "What am I (actually made of)? What does a single rail actually look like?" And then your look clings to a single rail. You turn your eyes to see how it is falling behind, and then it's out of your sight again. But this was not a fullfilling answer to your question, since you couldn't see all the details of the rail and the moment you could examine its properties, it disappeared again. So your look clings to the next rail and so on and so on. Every rail you examine first lets you hope and makes you excited to get the answer to your question, but then you mourn after it the next second, leaving you with more questions than before. Your eyes are in constant motion, from one rail to another. Relentlessly, your restless soul longs for the answer, since you apparently lost the selfknowledge. A subtle memory of the natural relaxed state of "train tracks passing by" rests in the depth of your being, but you project this state into the future. You can only imagine to rest like this after finding the answer to your question. You cling to the rails, but they are sooo fleeting. Then you suddenly recognize that there is something which is always present during your desperate search for the answer. Even though the rails appear and disappear and your eyes constantly move, there something subtle ("within your awarenes" - not really ) which is still the whole time. You try all the methods to concentrate on that again, which is constantly here, not fleeting. In the end, they all have the same goal: raising the frequency of your eyes moving back to the "statically focused into nothing (particular)" - state. Minimizing the distance between the old rail (the past) and the present one, so that your eyes can rest instead of constantly shifting from one place to another. Means: raising the frequency of your consciuosness, minimizing the radius of the self-reference circuit. Here are some examples: Neti neti: Realizing you are neither this trail, nor that one - makes your look relax into the natural state since the rails become less and less important Self inquriy: By zooming out and turning inward, you realize that the rails don't define your being, your eyes stop focusing on something far out there which is rushing by, but focus closer and closer to yourself - the focuspoint transitioning distance becomes shorter and shorter Letting go/doing nothing: Your eyes just relax, you stop energetically clinging to the rails Breathing meditation/body awareness: Instead of being imersed in the looking, you relax into what is - not trying to solve the riddle, but let your body find its natural energetc equilibrium Being present: You stop clinging to past rails - everytime you remember clinging to a past rail you naturally shift back to the present one All these techniques shorten the distance of switching your focus from one rail to another, and try to bring it back into the natural relaxed state, the energetc equilibirum, which is the state of the least resistance. The shorter the distance between two focus points (the smaller the radius of the self-reference circuit), the higher the frequency of consciousness (frequency of being in the present moment). "Enlighenment" is the natural state of least resistance, which was there in the beginning, when you didn't identify with the rails. It's the closed circuit of the triad. Of course, there actually is only enlightenment, because you were/are present all the time, only your eyes were not as relaxed as they could be. So being completely present kind of equals an infinite frequency of consciousness - and this is perfect nothingness/silence etc. What do I mean by that? Imagine a beat every time you focus back on the present - At the beginning of your spiritual journey it occours quite seldom, slowly raising its frquency. Then it slowly turns from single beats into a clear tone - moving up the ladder through all the octaves. Since then you still have the feeling of being in a journey of raising your frequency - until it becomes such a high pitch that you can't hear it anymore - complete silence, stillness. I could write more about what I mean by minimizing the radius of the self-reference circuit, giving other metaphoras like a planet (object) flying around a star (subject) until both collapse into each other when the rotation frequency hits its maximum. But I think this text can be enough for you to realign again with what your highest goal is. Remember - there is only the present moment to focus back on the NOW. Don't attach to this moment, since it is fleeting. Don't stay in the present moment (which is impossible since now it is not the present moment anymore), stay in the NOW. Realign your focus over and over again, every time you recognize that clinging to a moment happens. Your frequency of consciousness will raise, which soon will be recognizable. Then you will realize that there is nobody and no situation that could ever disturb you in your meditation. That you don't meditate by closing eyes and sitting with straight back. You then will meditate while eating and shitting. You can meditate RIGHT NOW, just come back here and now again. What is real/true NOW? Who are YOU? Don't project the answer into the future, don't lose yourself in thoughts (rails), just come back to what already is the case - eternally NOW.

Doing Neti Neti on mushrooms is effective.

04:15 Wake up, drink a glass of water, do oil pulling, light stretching 05:00-06:00 Shambhavi Mahamudra practice (~40 minutes) + 20 minutes of Neti Neti 06:00-06:30 Workout 06:30-07:00 Reading

I had 2 powerful awakening experiences that have caused a permanent shift: 1. Listening to my inner voice after 1.5 years and finally meeting up with a hippie group on the beach doing Wim Hof breathing. They emanated love and acceptance. On my drive home, I've never been the same since - similar to how Ram Dass encountered his Baba and 'caught the bug'. 2. Listening to Leo's Neti Neti video whilst under the influence of Cannabis

@WelcometoReality Ah, I see what you mean. Thanks! @This I suppose it comes with the package of trying to do this thing at all @Carl-Richard Quite helpful, thanks! @Kalo Will do. I tried it for a period of time and got distracted by other things instead and stopped doing it. Funny how when you're trying to find yourself, the self basically does anything it can to divert your attention. I'm tired of getting distracted though and the straight-up methods resonate with me at this stage. Neti neti is certainly one of those.

Sounds like a useful technique, something like the Neti Neti method.

It depends. Skepticism and constant questioning are generally healthy traits to foster. Any experience that can't withstand scrutiny is unlikely to be authentic. Ask yourself what purpose is being served by the doubt. Does it disable, depress, and demotivate you? Or does it drive you deeper inward, toward the Truth that you are? The ancient gurus questioned everything. Neti Neti, not this, not that, until only Awareness remained at the core. Don't take their word for it. Do the work yourself, and see what you discover.

Yes the neti neti method is awesome in that way, but it is not good to reduce everything down cause it is limiting in my view, and anatta is more correctly = not my soul, today modern buddhists think that anatta means that the Buddha taught that there was no soul only material body conciousness, which is not the Truth. Anatta = not my soul, guatama didnt teach no soul.

Hey guys, lately i have doing the self-inquiry for 5 months & i combined this technique with neti-neti method, so thereby whatever appeared to me is not me as so I'm the one who perceived all of it. So after doing this technique by combining these two methods i almost two days in a row, i really see that thoughts and things are just arising and passing, and also the "I" the perceiver is no more there as it was also somewhat an object. But i didn't had any mystical or total blissful states while getting to know there was no-self. But also in the other hand i realized there's no-self. So did i get it or am i just tricked myself into it?

Ok, so i tried this Neti Neti method. Hope I did right. I realized that if somebody removes carefully my bodyparts or exchanged them with others, I’m still there, so I can’t be my body. Body can’t be an essential part of me. I realized that I was there before the construction of my Story started, memories, values, language , thoghts etc...So I’m not my story... Everything I remember, imagine, think to exist is not necessarily there, it’s more like guessing really.. What remains is the observation/curiousness/something something and the currently observable “experience” . Since that observable “stuff” is not constant eighter, it cannot be me... I’m left with the observer...

Analyzing isn't the word I would use, since it implies being stuck in your head. Diving into yourself through systematic meditation though, can lead to insight. The ancient gurus practiced neti neti, which means "not this, not that". They examined each aspect of themselves, the body, the senses, etc. and discarded each layer that was not the core of who they are. At the end, at the center, all that remained was Consciousness.

5MEO-DMT was the first substance I ever tried. It was meant to be jumping in the deep end for someone who had never drunk alcohol or even smoked a cigarette. I was interested in truth-seeking and had got in on Leos videos because of an interest in philosophy. Obviously, his Neti-Neti video put me face to face with a black void called infinite consciousness, that was quite a shock for a then atheist. The rest is the usual start down the personal development and spiritual journey of awakening inevitably coming across the idea of psychedelics and wanting to explore consciousness. I did my first 5MEO session at an ayahuasca retreat last May and while other people beside me also doing 5MEO were screaming, crying, moaning and wretching, I was lying there strangely contented. I had to take two inhales but it was enough to knock me catatonic so I lost sense of the body but still fully conscious. There was a bit of black and white patchy clouds morphing in and out and an intense buzzing energy. It left me a bit stumped because, except for the buzzing energy, I didn't experience anything different to my 'good' meditation or breathwork sessions. I couldn't make up my mind about it so decided I needed to experience another session as a reference. This was almost a year later and the dose was certainly higher. I didn't even get to finish the first inhaling or holding my breath and I was already gone. Again, everyone else screaming, crying, moaning, cathartic releases etc etc... Me... lying in a black void contently listening to space music with the intense buzz of energy present yet again. But both times I would have to honestly say that nothing really happened. It was the same with the ayahuasca and again with mushrooms. I don't really experience anything. one flash of visual but several hours of nothing really while everyone around me is going through a process or loosing their shit. What seems to happen is that everything I experience is formless, void, black and when I come out the other side I do my work during contemplation in the weeks after. it's a bit dissapointing to hear peoples fantastic DMT vision journeys being shot through the universe into the womb of creation itself and thinking my turn... for another buzzing black bath. I'd almost believe something is wrong with me or that I'm one of the rare people whos not affected by the substances. It's hard to find people to describe their 5meo experiences because they don't seem to be able to describe it or its so vastly different to what I'm experiencing, visually, consciously and emotionally.

It's been a really great year for personal growth. I have got a much more larger amount of control over my emotions and well being overall. My diet is amazingly clean at this point and tastes great. I have built my business up quite a bit to a much more stable and sustainable point. I have been a Toastmaster in two groups for a whole year! I read close to 40 books this year! I am still living at home, but I want to change that this year. I am going to be working on getting enough resources and income level to move myself to Arizona or another state I might choose. I have been doing really well with investing, but I am not going to bank on that to get me there. I want to build up my business to a high level where I can afford this transition more easily. I will see how things pan out with Covid and how my living environment changes. I really don't feel that happy living here it seems like. I feel like this is something that is limiting my growth a lot. This year I plan to really work on and refine my life purpose a lot more. I am cruising through books lately and just love it. I am going to read all of the life purpose course books, then a lot more! I am going to be taking this much more seriously than I did previously. I feel like my purpose revolves around teaching people, but I have a lot to learn myself and limiting beliefs to break past. I might try to transition into my life purpose this year, but we will see. I am going to be working on building out a lot more deliberate practice though and really honing my skills. My speaking skills have improved so much now. I am going to work on really embedding a lot of this stuff that I am reading into my life. I cannot really describe how much better I feel over all. I still need to work on a stronger and more refined work ethic, but it is getting there. I am starting to be a lot more strategic with my energy and time as opposed to how I use to be. I am working on cutting out more of the bullshit in my life. Surpassingly, I was able to break myself out of being too strict this year too. I allow a lot of time to heal and relax now where I could not before. My exploration with psychedelics has been extremely impactful. I was actually able to mostly forgive and move past a big wall of being upset with my father. I actually contacted him after not talking for 7 years. There has been a lot of trauma from being raised by him, but I seem to be moving out of a lot of that. I can see taking these has made a profound difference in my ability to forgive and heal. I am building a good balance here with a lot of manual practices. I am not tripping all that much. I plan to explore further and deeper as I go though. I have had a no-self experience this year that was during meditation. I also had an awakening to infinity while sober, but there is likely more degrees and insights to be had. I am making a bit of spiritual progress, but not a whole lot. I am going to be working on doing more of the neti neti method and a bit of other practices mixed with my mediation. I am not really putting this as a main focus, but something that I am becoming more and more intrigued in. I am getting there with it. I think right now I just want to put finances as the main focus with knowledge building. I am going to work on hitting $50,000 worth of stuff listed. This needs to come up more to the top of my things to do. My income is growing well and I can see it going up more and more if I can keep focused this year. I think that I can get to this goal easily if I can just keep my eye on the ball. If I were to build up to $70,000 or $80,000 listed a move would be very feasible I think. I am not putting in enough work right now. I have a really efficient system going though. I am really likely going to do some Youtube videos again this year, but not put it as the main focus. I feel like if creating this kind of stuff is my purpose I need to explore it more. I felt so good making content before and with just reselling I feel kind of depressed. It might be possible that I could place it as the main thing if it is where my heart is. I am going to do it for fun though and to practice honing my speaking skills more. It also would really help me to retain the information I read in my books. I also already basically make the content for it in my Toastmasters groups anyway. I am going to invest in a $200 green screen and get working on doing some of these. I actually am putting together a really bad ass PC for editing and stuff too. I put off dating or really considering dating for now. I feel like I have fully healed from my last relationship. A goal I would like to have is to join some yoga class that has hot women in it and get comfortable talking with them more. I can see myself getting into building more social skills in the future for doing cold approaches. I would mostly just be looking for long term partners though, when I am ready. Just another facet of life that I think I want to put more on hold at least for now. I can still practice here and there. This year I discovered and practiced the Sedona Method a lot. Probably one of the most profound techniques I discovered for the year. This has really changed my emotional well being completely! I also working through a massive chunk of having OCD. Not even funny how much this garbage use to run my life. I feel awesome to be able to break free from this so much. I am going to get myself completely free of it. One big thing I have developed this year was getting into Kryia Yoga. I am doing a couple techniques. I am going to go much deeper with this. This is an amazing habit to get into. It has enhanced my meditation a bunch. I also investing in a proper meditation setup. I might give some other types of a yoga try as well. I really want to put as much of myself into this year as I can. I don't want this year to pass without making significant progress. I am putting in the work and I will get closer to my goal of moving out and being independent. I've made it another year in my self actualization journey. What a ride it has been going from where I was. You can see the previous journal here:

Hey everyone, I just finished my first book on the topic of zen, enlightenment etc - Alan Watts - The way of Zen. And it's a great book, I'm fascinated how easy it was to read it. Anyway, after completing the book I don't feel like there is any point to do self-inqury anymore, I mean I've been meditating and self-inquiring for a while now (I've Meditating daily ~1.5 years and self-inqury 2 - 3 times a week for 5 - 7 months) I do understand that asking myself questions like "who am I" or "what am I" or the neti neti method is basically spinning around in circles, chasing my tail - asking myself who is myself, while being I while searching for the I, and basically fueling my own existance. Baisacally the conclusion after finishing the book is that reaching Dao cannot be the goal or a destination or something to achieve because if it becomes one of these, it's not Dao. And that makes perfect sense since a goal, destination or achievement is a thing and how can enlightenment be a thing? I basically don't see any point of asking questions anymore or even looking since what is there to look for? Who's looking? It's still my mind that's doing all that. Any tips on what to do? How to think? or Any idea of how to proceed on this spiritual journe y past this point would be helpfull.

One way of completing the neti neti method is to recognize what thoughts are, and then to see that thoughts are a part of the totality and not a cause of anything. One way of looking at it is if a thought is a cause, then what is the cause of that thought itself? And the neti neti method can be seen as what the actual causes are which are not this, not that, and only That, as in the totality. I found another of Leo's older videos, and this is about the nature of thoughts.

The neti neti method might be useful as a stepping stone towards nonduality, but notice that's it only goes half the way. Why? Because when we say "not that" about anything, that's a duality perspective. The nondual perspective includes everything. That of course means that it even includes the neti neti method but it's more than that. It's a totality perspective. So the neti neti method should only be used as a stepping stone or it becomes a duality trap.

Neti neti means not this, not that. I now have a different method that I will experiment with. Instead of saying not this not that, to say this and that. I am this, and I am that, I am everything I experience!

Something that I got reminded of is that all personal memories are from the personal stage! So it's the whole personal self that needs to be questioned, including when practicing the neti neti method. And I also want to remind myself of what Roger Castillo said in his recent satsang video. The thinking mind (the crystallized ego) is very attached to successes and failures. What needs to happen I theorize is that all personal successes and failures need to be recognized as a part of the perfect order of reality. So it's actually 100% success! And then from a transpersonal stage there can be a transcend and include of success and failures so that it's still valid but seen as a "game" layer on top of a foundation of peace.

Here is an older video by Leo where he explains the neti neti method. I find it useful for shifting my perspective from material identification and separations and to a nondual perspective.

@Gesundheit What Is sees these both as conceptual notions. Pointing attempts to arrest the mind, if not for just a glimpse of what IT IS, completely free of the mind's gravity. To be clear, you are approaching this identified with the mind's constructs. The words used to point are flying by. The more you think, the more you will fail, but that is OK... such futility is required, apparently. neti neti

Where's the line that separates something and nothing? When does something change to nothing? It never does because It's the same thing. No, not at all. You can not learn nor realize Infinite love with a finite mind. Of course Mahasamadhi is now, where else would it be? There is only here and now, and has been so for eternity, but "you", the one which happens to be in your body typing on a computer, could not interact within the illusion if you were not in a "physical" vessel in this gross realm. If you were in a mahasamadhi right now you would not be able to interact with anything or anyone, nor do anything, because you'd be in an absolute state of consciousness unable to stand or move. Agreed, yet we must somehow talk about these things, for the love of expression, the love of sharing. Yet in a lighthearted manner because you can't communicate serious awakenings. As soon as you take yourself seriously, or what you speak of seriously on a forum like this, you've already missed the point. Ken Wilber covers all these points in "The religion of tomorrow" much better than I can. The four inexpressibles cover it well, and The heart sutra: That which is emptiness is not other than form, and vise versa. And neti-neti, not this not that.

@Swarnim Yes, it is not my intention with this practice to be awake 24/7. I have seen the nothingness, and I do self inquiry and use the deconstruction of reality with neti-neti in combination. I have a lot of "associations" of objects that I consider a thing. On that I am working too, I am also doing that with every suffering that occures, using shinzen youngs mindfullness methods. Unfortunately I am not aware of all the associations I have. An awakening into the nothingness can help I believe, but I'll exercise mindfullness with what I have now. Unfortunately It is hard to deconstruct every association of "bad pain" that occures, because it doesn't happen really often, and I don't want to deliberately hurt myself. I'll just wait for the suffering to happen, and not cause myself for harm than necessary, because I am more interested in relieving suffering than in truth atm. I have seen the nothingness and had countless awakenings. I want to "stabilise" and fall deeper into enlightenment in the now.

So I wanted to share this Insight I had a while ago about the existential nature of the self / other and the sentient / inert duallity. Not long before this, I had a short Samadhi experience while doing some neti-neti and focusing on Actuallity meditation. I'm saying this because I applied the "Mu" insight while talking with a co-worker face to face. That day I had been pondering: what does it mean that something is alive? How is it possible for something to exist and be " dead, inert, not sentient " ? This notion felt so absurd. So I was chatting with, lets call him Paul, and as I was directly looking at his face, eyes, mouth moving, etc, I asked myself " how can I be sure of him being "alive", just like " I am " in my direct experience? What I saw was his mouth moving, making sounds, facial expressions, etc while I was PROJECTING on him the idea of " human being, alive, sentient, not inert and different from a rock " . This kind of freaked me out for a while. I felt as if he was a robot, as in ", just moving but no person inside ". I asked myself " what's the difference between him and a rock?? And I could't find a proof of him being more alive than a rock is, the only difference being that I was projecting that he is "alive" and that "he" displays more intelligence and movement. I imagined him being made of stone, but a kind of stone that is intelligent, could move, had a girlfriend, could comunicate, and looks and feels like flesh. WOW. IT'S THE SAME!! I thought " oh god, I'm fucked " . I knew I won't be able to shake this off. And that's how the dead / alive and inert / sentient conceptual duallity colapsed in my mind. Since then, I don't look at others the same way. Anyways, Paul is a cool guy. No idea what he was saying though LOL. TLDR : Others = Mu. Rocks = Mu. The only difference is that I project one is alive, human, sentient and rocks are not intelligent, not alive, etc. wtf. Is this what Leo means with "others" being imaginery? Edit : yes, nevertheless I'm still nice to people