Endangered-EGO

The mystery is always there. There is nothing you can know or understand.

21 posts in this topic

I am contemplating language/universe/things/objects and questions. Wanted to share my thoughts.

So I just found out, I am not able to understand anything with mind. I can just make "pictures", get information, compare things to finally be able to link unfamiliar things with familiar things. THAT is NOT understanding what a thing itself is. Once we are familiar with something we just accept that it is like it is, and don't question the thing further, but the familiar thing is still NOT understood. It always comes to the same mystery of absolute not knowing/understanding anything.

For example: What is a scale?
-it's something to measure an other thing. --> doesn't explain what it is, just what it is used for.
-it works by being pushed down if something is put on top --> doesn't explain... just "what happens"
-it works exactly like when things fall down they go "down" on the scale. --> explains the things that we are familiar with are (gravity)

Leads to the next question what is gravity? To "understand" gravity you can use a model which is NOT gravity, just something that expresses the model in a similar way. But explaining how something works is not the "thing" being understood. GRAVITY just is. Things simply fall down. A scale simply is. Every thing that exists just EXISTS. There is no explanation for (the essence of) things.

How come we believe we understand that things fall down? We simply don't understand it. Newton questioned it, and invented the concept (discovered) of gravity. Gravity is just a model. Before Newton, things just fell down, now they fall down with a story attached to it.

We just want to understand things we are not familiar with, we never understand them, we just become so familiar with them that we "forget to ask".
There is also no question-answer thing going on, there is just curiosity and confusion, that just stops when we become familiar with something.

Where does asking questions eventually lead to? Asking questions always lead to the SAME MYSTERY that cannot be put into words.

What is that Mystery? I cannot point towards it, I cannot think about it, and I cannot distinguish it from anything?

Any tips on what I am doing? I would just deconstruct everything until I realise there is just ONE mystery.
 

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Yep, you cannot actually understand anything on the deepest levels using mind. What is is what is, not a thought about it, not an interpritation. 
Everything is infinitely intangled, you only think something is a seperate thing because you have an intention to understand something that you think is going on. This intention is based off what value you think the thing has to you, It will determin in what way you are looking at the thing. 

Keep going you are doing some good contemplation, put the pieces of the Mystery together, every layer, every angle, be it all Now as One. 


 


The how is what you build, the why is in your heart. 

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@OctagonOctopus Yeah, the funny thing is, even though I now know that I can't know, I still believe I know some things that will soon come up. For example my computer is running on electricity with a battery. So there is a lot of little tiny blue dots coming from the wall through the cable into my computer where they are magically transformed into "that". Just a fun story basically.

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Maybe understanding occurs at the level of awareness or perception rather than thoughts based upon that. You can have an infinite number of theories, explanations, and descriptions of a hardwood floor, but does all of that combined really get you any further than directly perceiving the thing itself? 


Everybody wanna be a mystic, but nobody wanna dissolve themselves to the point of a psych ward visit. 
https://youtu.be/5i5jGU9wn2M?si=-rXSAiT1MMZrdBtY

 

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@BipolarGrowth Depends on what you mean by "get you any further". To use it to do things it's always great to map the socalled "understanding" in your mind. But you don't understand reality "better" because you can never know what it is, just "how-it-behaves", by comparison with other familiar things you take for granted.

Here is the perfect example of a visualisation of gravity in 3D. This thing happens in 3D, gravity is in 4D. The blue layer is supposed to be spacetime. "Oh that's how gravity works". But NO that's not how it works. It just behaves in a very similar way. So we know how it behaves by something we are familiar with (this model). But now we can ask the same questions about why the marbles act that way. We would not understand it, because it's not about knowing it, it's about being familiar with it. We could go as far as asking "what is movement?". But we wouldn't understand that either, because movement just IS. 
 

 

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@Endangered-EGO And yet, you are able to understand things.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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2 hours ago, Endangered-EGO said:

Where does asking questions eventually lead to? Asking questions always lead to the SAME MYSTERY that cannot be put into words.

What is that Mystery?

Real question is who or what is asking these questions? There is no such a thing as I, question or questioning , thats the absolute answer.


"It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows."

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@Endangered-EGO

Your contemplation reminds me a lot of my own contemplations which I had not too long ago. It's a mind-riddle. One thing implies the other. One explanation demands another one, branches out infinitely. Running around in a maze, chasing your own tail, you start to see that our sense making apparatus fundamentally leads you nowhere. It is a strange loop. Coming from A, you try to understand B. As you understand B, you are back at A. As you go full circle over and over again, something profound keeps emerging. You become aware of your sense making. You become aware that your sense making will not give you the answer you are looking for, as you keep circling around. Slowly but surely you understand, that this thing through which you try to understand yourself.. doesn't help you further in Understanding.

Counterintuitively, this is the biggest help you can get. As you keep chasing your own tail and failing to understand what anything is, a deep form of surrendering our notions of understanding emerges. You surrender that, which tries to understand. That thing which tries to understand no longer serves you with these contemplations. All these voices in your head which try to make sense of anything become silent. And in that silence, there is Understanding. In that Understanding, there is no one which understands anything. That Understanding understands, that it always understood what it was trying to understand - as it always was itself. As the questioner vanishes, all questions burn up, all answers reveal. You are gone, but still, you stay. That, which you always were.

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1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

@Endangered-EGO And yet, you are able to understand things.

@Leo Gura what things? I assume you don't mean at the level of mind?

 

 

1 hour ago, James123 said:

Real question is who or what is asking these questions? There is no such a thing as I, question or questioning , thats the absolute answer.



@James123 Yes, I know that, but the "I" is also a word, I am attacking the "I" from multiple angles. This is the "I" in the world. When I do self inquiry I look for the I located in space in the Body. I is also a word. And "What/Who am I" is a question. The thought-question "Who am I" is to lead into the curiosity of the sense of "I". But If I don't contemplate language and "understanding", I might lose myself in "thinking" as a "me" again.

@EmptyVase Yes, that's it. I did had my first true liberation experience, after chasing my own tail contemplating free will. It was a sober but really meaningful experience. I could be deluding myself, but since then I believe I am able to act, not from the mind, but from somewhere else, and am not really lettng the mind do whatever it wants, but I am able to relax the thoughts, from a different place. It's like I decided I wouldn't allow the mind to cause me suffering. It changed my perspective on the "problems". However it's not permanent unfortunately. 

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34 minutes ago, Endangered-EGO said:

@Leo Gura what things? I assume you don't mean at the level of mind?

You understand how a door works.

Don't take that for granted. That is a profound thing.

And don't dismiss it as "at the level of mind", since whatever your mind is doing, is by definition something consciousness and the Universe is doing.

How is it possible that the Universe can understand how a door works?

Contemplate that.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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48 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

How is it possible that the Universe can understand how a door works?

Contemplate that.

Going to continue the contemplation tommorow.
Not sure if it's supposed to lead me asking more questions about "how is it possible that" and increasing the feeling of "mystery" and "wow". I guess that's a good sign?

This led me to the question, how is it possible that doors open without me actively doing something, how can I just picture doors in my thoughts and it's mechanics. How do I "remember" how a door works, how is it possible that I am simply able to consciously picture images of doors opening. Out of pure nothing. The knowledge and thoughts just arise in my experience. This very complex "thing"/"process" just comes up out of nothing, and then it goes away. I am not always aware that I know how a door works, the hand opens them on its own (without me recalling the knowledge).

Not sure if I should continue going broad or if I should go deep into the first door question.

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1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

How is it possible that the Universe can understand how a door works?

Contemplate that.

That is an awesome question.


“The psychotic drowns in the same waters in which the mystic swims with delight.”

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@SamueLSD please feel free to share your homework with the class, if you intend to contemplate that question. :D 

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Yep we place an overlay of what we think we understand on top of reality and operate from that perspective.

In truth its truly unknowable ❤


“Everything is honoured, but nothing matters.” — Eckhart Tolle.

"I have lived on the lip of insanity, wanting to know reasons, knocking on a door. It opens. I've been knocking from the inside." -- Rumi

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26 minutes ago, Endangered-EGO said:

@SamueLSD please feel free to share your homework with the class, if you intend to contemplate that question. :D 

Reminds me of a quote from Rupert Spira.

"God needs our mind to know the world." 

Formlessness ( infinite potential ) collapses into perceived form ( the finite mind ) in order to know 'things' in a subject - object relationship.

Basically saying; the 'door' is nothing until the mind knows it as a something.  ( Keeping in mind what 'nothing' means in this context.)

Edited by SamueLSD

“The psychotic drowns in the same waters in which the mystic swims with delight.”

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1 hour ago, VeganAwake said:

Yep we place an overlay of what we think we understand on top of reality and operate from that perspective.

Put it perfectly in one sentence.

 

 

9 minutes ago, Mu_ said:

@Endangered-EGO   

Have you focused this investigation to the sense of 'you' that feels like its doing such investigation yet?

@Mu_ Yes, However I never had an awakening during the contemplation, I had one shortly after the "where am I located"-contemplation when merging with the object during meditation. Maybe I could contemplate about every aspect of the self in a sequence, like, what is the me-story, where is me in the body, where is me in see/hear/feel/thoughts. But it's kind of a dead end. Neti-neti kind of has an effect on me though.

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@Endangered-EGO

keep trying other ways, one will eventually click. You can try this one if you like.

Assuming you feel like there is an inner an and outer world/experience.  While you meditate  Try and focus the attention on one, and then gently on the other.  Keep doing this back and forth, back and forth, back and forth.  Slower and slower and slower.  Keeping keen attention on that infinitesimally small moment of space/experience between when the outer becomes the inner and the inner becomes the outer..  Whats there going from one to the other, keep feeling, keep questioning.  whats inner, whats outer, is there a transition between one to the other, like a line, or is this line imagination.  Does this make sense?

A meditation like this may be done for any amount of time, but I'd try at least 20 minutes, perhaps with some relaxing music in the background to keep the mind engaged, while you just pay attention to this sense of reality

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7 hours ago, Endangered-EGO said:

Yes, I know that, but the "I" is also a word, I am attacking the "I" from multiple angles. This is the "I" in the world. When I do self inquiry I look for the I located in space in the Body. I is also a word. And "What/Who am I" is a question. The thought-question "Who am I" is to lead into the curiosity of the sense of "I". But If I don't contemplate language and "understanding", I might lose myself in "thinking" as a "me" again.

Nice!!! Don’t forget after enough contemplation, some point “thinking” is become stuck with “self”. 


"It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows."

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