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It's a big jump because that's obviously not how I think about it. I don't know how exactly Leo sees himself. Does he even think of himself as a "person" at all? Who knows. He obviously thinks extremely highly of his awakening, but it's not unwarranted. Maybe there are people alive with a better understanding than him on God, but I don't know any. It has nothing to do with ethics. It's more like I'm sometimes willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he might know something I don't. For example, I don't know about Alien Awakening. But I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt there might be something there and will test it. This is just called trust. Yes, you obviously you still need to maintain your own autonomy. But you can actually build trust when someone has demonstrated they deserve it over a period of years. Every healthy relationship also requires some trust. And you are closed-minded, so I'm not going to fault him for hitting you over the head about that. I don't idolize him, and I do focus on the work. This is whole thread is the most I've thought about Leo in a long time. I would prefer to just move on, but I felt I should address it since this thread was blowing up. Sure, fine. Sure, as long as you don't expect me to think Relativity means you get to gaslight me with your nonsense and I have to consider it "equally valid". Turns out understanding things is possible.

The narcissism critique, the "he is narcissistic" critique, the "lack of integrity" critique, and the "you shouldn't bring attention to the idea or declare yourself to be more awake than every other being in the universe" critique do not rely on the premise that Leo is not the most awake being in the universe. You can go back and read my previous posts. I provided numerous links throughout this thread documenting the behavior I consider problematic. Feel free to actually go through those examples, respond to them individually and/or comprehensively, and provide an explanation that makes them no longer problematic while still preserving your view that Leo has integrity and that his commitment to teaching is more important than preserving his special image. You can criticize the morals, judgment, rhetoric, or behavior of a spiritual teacher without assuming that their spiritual realization is false. These are separate questions.(unless you want to make a weird move, where you want to collapse that seperation, and where you want to imply that every instance of bad behavior was necessary (that it was the optimal strategy for accomplishing Leo's teaching goals and that only Leo possesses the special knowledge required to understand why behaving that way was both necessary and beneficial). Lets suppose, for the sake of argument, that Leo actually is the most awake being in the universe. Lets also suppose that he genuinely possesses special abilities that allow him to know (with absolute certainty) the level of awakening of every conscious being in existence. Even if I grant all of that, the criticism still stands: You can be the most awake being in the universe and still choose not to repeatedly create threads declaring that you are the most awake being in the universe while explicitly undermining everyone else's cognition. If the stated purpose of this work is helping people awaken, making them more sovereign, encouraging independent realization, and emphasizing that people should "do the work," then repeatedly redirecting attention toward yourself and your own exceptional status is obviously counterproductive. A Tier 2 guy who is the most awake being in the universe and can telepathically (with certainty) perfectly read everyone's level of awakening somehow failed to recognize how ineffective his "I'm the most awake being in the universe for the 1000th time, and everyone else is a fucking spiritual rat and should be beaten with a crowbar" rhetoric is (even though multiple people have given him very clear negative feedback about it) - Especially, again, if his main goal is to teach us, keep us receptive, help us awaken, and make us more sovereign. If his primary objective is teaching, , helping people awaken, and increasing their sovereignty, then it is very weird why he continued using rhetoric that many of us repeatedly clarified was producing a negative effect. Again, notice that this criticism does not depend on the claim that he is not the most awake being in the universe. His rhetoric is problematic (regardless whether he is the most awake or not) : because of how it comes across; because Leo would never grant comparable claims if they would came from someone else; because many members of his own audience have repeatedly made it clear that this rhetoric makes them significantly less receptive; and because it predictably creates cult dynamics that undermine the very goals he claims to value (especially again if you combine that specialty claim with undermining the cognition of disagreers). More specifically: It undermines people's sovereignty. It encourages exceptional trust in Leo's authority. It encourages people to become increasingly dependent on him while simultaneously distrusting every other spiritual teacher, because all of them supposedly belong to the category of "they don't know what they're talking about." It also encourages people to distrust their own judgment and discernment (If the claim is that every single advanced spiritual teacher in history failed to reach Leo's level of realization, and if no one else truly understands consciousness, then why would anyone on this forum ever trust their own discernment?) And no, the reply that "every other spiritual community has the exact same problems" does not work - because not every other spiritual community has a leader who claims to be more awake than everyone else in the universe , not every spiritual leader undermines the cognition of every single student every singe time when there is a disagreement ,not every spiritual community is set up in a way where your progress can only be evaluated by the leader (again, the "you can validate everything for yourself" doesnt work in practice, because if you do the work and disagree on things, then that can only mean that you havent done enough work and there is no possible scenario under which you can do enough work and disagree with Leo on spirituality - the "did enough" standard can only be called by Leo and there isn't any independent standard from Leo's judgement. ). Now, let's temporarily stop assuming those two premises: (That Leo is the most awake being in the universe and that Leo can flawlessly determine everyone else's level of awakening.) And lets challenge the implication that the reasonable default position is simply to grant those premises until someone can disprove them with absolute certainty. Lets be clear and honest here - Neither you nor Leo would ever consistently apply that standard. Imagine someone else making exactly the same argument to you.: Imagine a scenario where a teacher behaved in ways you considered manipulative or morally questionable. And then one of the teacher's follower told you: "The reasonable thing is to simply assume this behavior is necessary because this person is the most spiritually advanced being in existence. He understands the effects of his rhetoric better than anyone else, so you should trust the process, regardless of how much negative feedback his students express." In what world would you ever accept an implication or response like that? Now, If your response is something like "Of course I would grant that someone other than Leo could be the most awake being in the universe." Okay. then let's check how serious you are about that. Grant that special priviledge to me (After all, you cannot be absolutely certain that I am not the most awake being in the universe, right? - And thats the standard you are asking everyone else to adopt) So, from this point forward, assume that I am more knowledgeable than you: Assume I am the ultimate authority on epistemology. Assume that whenever we disagree (about spirituality, definitions of cults) that I am correct by default and that everyone ought to use the definition of cult that I provided Do not rely on the possibility that I might be mistaken (because again, the reasonable move is to grant those things to me, because if you dont then you are closed-minded or not ready for this advanced work). And from now on, you need to accept all of my rhetoric and behavior because you don't yet understand how this is going to be beneficial for you and everyone else. You can validate everything that I say, but you need to keep in mind that, as long as we disagree about anything I care about, that that will automatically mean that you are wrong and that you need to do more work. This is because sufficient validation is analytically defined as you agreeing with me on all the things I care about, and there is no standard outside of me that can tell you when you have done enough and proper work. (So, let me take on that role and be an absolute authority on what "enough work" and "enough validation" means - actually let me contradict myself since this work is paradoxical and say that there is a standard that is technically outside of me - this is the standard: Keep doing the work until the point where you agree with me perfectly on everything I care about. Until then, any disagreement simply indicates that you have more work to do) if you acknowledge that all of that shit is completely unreasonable and you can entertain for a moment that Leo is not necessarily that special or infallible as he trie to pretend to be - then we can begin discussing Leo's epistemology. Explain: Why is there no video demonstrating the alien transformation that Leo repeatedly claimed he both could and would perform on camera? (Also - Why, when confronted about failing to deliver on that prediction, was his response dismissive rather than reflective ( where he acknowledge that he was wrong or at the very least acknowledge that he failed to deliver on that claim)? Why has there never been any healing miracle done by Leo ? How do you explain the repeated situations in which Leo denies making statements that he demonstrably made, even after evidence is presented? (One example that illustrates [this was one of my interaction with him] , you can search for my post related to this, its in this thread and I provided relevant links there) This was the situation: Leo said : "I never claimed that I can't be wrong." I then presented him with a post where he wrote: "I can be full of shit, but not on this." His response then shifted from: "I never claimed X." to "Just because I claimed X doesn't mean X is true." (Those are entirely different propositions - The first concerns whether the claim was ever made and the second concerns whether the content of the claim was correct) This is a sneaky and spineless shift in the discussion so that he doesnt need to take responsibility when he is cornered. He then ended with one of the most manipulative moves, when he uttered (paraphrased): "I cannot ultimately be wrong because I once uttered the claim that self-deception is endless. Therefore, if I turn out to be wrong about something, that will just confirm my broader claim that self-deception is endless." - Given this logic, you can't be held accountable for any false or incorrect claim, because you can always pivot back to, "But I already told you that self-deception is endless."

Leo is not a narcissist or a cult leader. It’s absurd to think that he is. But he does have narcissistic traits. That doesn’t mean such traits are bad. In fact, they can be good. You need self‑trust, self‑confidence, and a desire to be unique and stand out to accomplish great things. If Leo didn’t have such characteristics, there would be no Actualized.org. Leo is a genuine top‑level philosopher, epistemologist, and mystic who deserves respect. That doesn’t mean he is perfect. I have seen many errors from him over the years. I don’t remember all of them, but recently he claimed that OCD is a coping mechanism for underdeveloped minds to feel safe. That’s a weak insight. Obviously, most underdeveloped minds don’t suffer from OCD. OCD is the result of genetic predisposition, childhood trauma, and certain personality types. I even think people with OCD are more intelligent than those without it. OCD is the ultimate form of perfectionism. People who deeply desire the highest quality of work often exhibit OCD tendencies during the process. They become perfectionists. They can’t even sleep at night if they notice any imperfection. This applies to nearly all high‑level traders, directors, authors, software programmers, musicians, designers, and others. It’s either perfection, or they suffer from anxiety and restlessness. OCD is painful. Leo also tends to exaggerate things. And it seems his integrity is not high enough for a spiritual teacher. I think he should have clearly explained why he wasn’t able to heal himself after claiming he would through awakening. Also, that alien awakening claim was horrible. Where was the video of him transforming into alien intelligence? If it’s not possible, then own it and explain. That’s a true show of integrity. I don’t think he should have made a video about integrity, because his embodiment of such an important characteristic is not strong enough. The reason Leo tends to make exaggerated claims is that he lacks experiential knowledge and embodiment. He is very good at conceptual comprehension. But experiential knowledge and comprehension are superior to conceptual and theoretical ones. It’s comical that many, or even most, of his moderators turn on him. I have seen this pattern repeat for many years. He freely chose his disciples and generals, but they end up “betraying” him. It’s clear that his epistemic judgment in this aspect is weak. I wonder why moderators who think Leo is a narcissist, cult leader, or someone worthy of caution accepted their roles to begin with. If they realized this only after becoming moderators, then why not quit? I appreciate @puporing for showing integrity. When they discovered or believed that Leo was a horrible spiritual teacher, she quit. She walked her talk.

When you realize Alien Consciousness was there all along waiting for you to tap into it:

I love the cope. What do you think this part means "And it won't just be words, you will visually see me morph into an Alien Intelligence." But also here you go. Will wait for how you cope your way out of this one

"Alien Awakening" "alien intelligence" That does not mean a physical alien

Alien Mind is beyond the physical universe or anything human. Human transforming into an physical alien on planet earth is a cartoonish fantasy of what is actually being pointed to: https://www.actualized.org/insights/alien-consciousness-visualization

I become so conscious i established a connection with an alien mind. Follow the logic: If you're God, you're also an alien. Because God is infinite, aliens obviously exist. The aliens i'am talking about don't exist on another planet. Because physical and material reality is a hallucination. They exist within God's mind. Which is your own and my own mind. Because there's only one mind. I realized that all people that i don't know, 99% of humanity is alien to me. They have alien minds. There's so much alien cultures, languages, people... I also realized that for example we think of ourselves as humans being more intelligent than animals. Through my alien mind i've realized a perspective where animals are more intelligent than humans, and they think of us as dumb. Over time i'll refine my alien mind and become more and more conscious of alien things.

Don't worry, with the Psilocybe cubensis I thought I was having a psychotic break. I really did feel like an alien being. (I wish you would release a video on alien intelligence, and shut the naysayers up) All I'm saying about Jim is this: with a permanent cessation of the separate sense of self, what barriers are left

@UnbornTao Have you actually consider that you're not a human? Not intellectually, but experientially. If you didn´t and you still dismiss such claims then don't you think you're not being rigorous? Imagine if somehow you have that realization and it is %100 true, how could you prove it? Why on earth do you think you know better? And I am not talking about the Alien Awakening.

Do you think people believe that Leo can turn into an alien or alien mouse? ......they don't

They will pay once Leo accesses alien telekinesis, no quarter given Praise be to DMT

I meant my family not the people from the forum 😅. (Later I will read again your post to comment, now I'm inspired in remembers) My family's situation was an enigma to me. I saw fragments, but being inside it made it almost impossible to understand. I knew something was deeply wrong but I thought it was me, and during my teenage years I descended into an increasingly dark state until I reached a level of brutal psychological suffering. Resume, my father was a con artist, a complete son of a bitch and a world-class self-destructive alcoholic. For example, he underwent surgery for throat cancer at the age of thirty-eight, and afterward he smoked ninety cigarettes a day and drank an entire bottle of gin, starting with breakfast. That, in itself, isn't unique, there are many self-destructive alcoholics, but my father was an a genius of lie. He created the appearance of being a leader, a genius, an artist, an idol, a ubermensch. This was a man who had spent ten years at university without passing a single course and had been fired from every job he ever held, but he managed to have contacts, and women in love of him, what was translated in money. In short, I wanted to be like him. He was my idol and my god. He used to give me long lectures about Hitler as the greatest achievement of the human race. When I was eleven, he would say, "Let's shower together, like men," then compare our bodies and repeat over and over that my penis was small, that he was perfect and I was disgusting. Then he would buy me an expensive gift and tell me my mother was mentally retarded. And I would think: He's not a man. He's a god. Then I would do my best effort to be a piece of shit, seeing any integrity as weakness. In my mind there was a religion: my father, that living god, that supreme being, that avatar of perfection, and I was fortunate enough to have been insulted by him. Eventually I reached a point where I understood nothing. I didn't dare speak to anyone. If I went to the supermarket, I couldn't even bring myself to speak to the cashier because I didn't know what I was supposed to say, what attitude I should show. Everything felt insane, alien, unreal. My mind was a whirlwind of self-directed aggression. Every tiny humiliation I had ever experienced echoed over and over again, like the crack of a whip. Then, one day, I was walking alone through the countryside, trapped in rumination and suffering, when something happened. It was overwhelming. Inside my mind I felt what seemed like a massive steel gear, weighing tons, slowly turning until, with one final, decisive impact, it locked perfectly into place. I couldn't believe it. It felt like a miracle. Suddenly, all doubt disappeared. My mind became a vector. It was like a samurai tying the band around his forehead before committing seppuku, without the slightest hesitation. absolute certainty. I was eighteen or nineteen years old. From that moment on, reality became war, and there were only two possibilities: win or die. Everything became radically simple. There was nothing left to weigh, nothing left to analyze. Of course, everything remained incredibly difficult. I still couldn't talk to people. I still couldn't look at myself in the mirror. I couldn't even remember my mother, who had died three years earlier. I knew she had existed, but I couldn't retrieve a single memory of her. My psyche was like a massive slab of stone, a labyrinth of madness. But the direction, the vector, was absolute. I never doubted again. Then the work for clarify that horrible psyche that my father helped me to build was a interesting mission. If my father wouldn't die around that time maybe I would kill him (well I don't think so but just because the consequences), but if I would saw him now I would say him thanks. No father could be better , he gave me the handicap necessary to make the game interesting and the liberation possible

I will inscribe that on the granite alien mouse I'm currently carving "don't suck my ass" Such profound humility, divine

Almost everyone here agrees that Leo is the most awake ever and that Alien Awakening™️ is the pinnacle of consciousness In honor of our leader I have made a Leo out of solid marble and rub his head every morning for blessing the day Allahu Leo, Allahu Leo

Are you saying alien intelligence is not a possibility ?

But even if I deconstruct I am human, I will still be in the human form, eating and pooping just like every other human at the end of the day. I will still be faced with the limitations of the human brain and nervous system, as well as language and cognition. I haven’t experienced alien awakening yet obviously. But even if you awaken to alien intelligence, you cannot maintain that state.

Imagine you tell somebody you know that you're in a spiritual community where the leader believes they can turn into an alien. And then tell me that they will not say you're in a cult.

Christians are sitting tight for their messiah why can't we? They say the second coming of Christ is just over the horizon. Maybe he'll be accompanied by an Alien, omnipresent Mind.

@UnbornTao - look what Leo said about how to hold him accountable (related to his alien transformation claim): I guess your main error here was forgetting that we're indefinitely stuck in the "sit tight" period .

Few things: Im skeptical about such an ability, and anyone can claim to have it. Im pretty sure that if we were to ask Razard how he knows he has this ability and how he knows its accurate, he wouldnt have a satisfying answer. Im also pretty sure that he hasn't verified its accuracy using a relatively large sample size. (but I can be wrong). For instance: what do you do if you have two people who claim to have this ability , but they give contradictory answers about Leo's awakening? (For example @Razard86 - do you think Leo is more awake than you and that he is more awake than literally everyone in the Universe?) The other point is that even if I grant that you can determine who has what awakening, that alone still doesn't justify the claim that you are the most awake. That claim presupposes a specific norm by which different awakenings can be ranked and compared. (You could probably have two people with this ability who disagree about how different awakenings should be evaluated and ranked). Another issue is that, depending on how this ability works, there may be constraints on how many people you can evaluate or "tune into". For example, if evaluating someone requires consuming a certain amount of information about them beforehand, that requirement would necessarily limit the number of people you could assess. (You wouldn't be able to read or watch videos about every single person on Earth, let alone every being in the universe) --- The claim that "you shouldnt make definitive statements about other people's awakening" still stands, even if I grant that all of the above has been resolved. As long as this ability is fallible in any way, you shouldnt make definitive statements. But even if I grant, for a moment, that this ability is infallible, that you can actually assess all beings in the universe, and that you've identified the perfect and most accurate standard by which different levels of awakening can be properly ranked, that still wouldn't make asserting the claim fine. (At most, that would address only one small part of the epistemic critique. It would still leave unresolved epistemic issues such as the failure to heal people, the failure to transform into an alien on camera, and several other epistemic problems. [And that is before we even consider the non-epistemic critiques]). There isn't any trivial deduction from "I have this infallible ability, and I am the most awake being in the universe" to "therefore I should frequently assert that fact and use it to bully and or undermine other people." (unless he can provide a credible explanation for why this tactic or rhetoric is necessary, why it is more beneficial than detrimental to the forum's users, and why alternatives would be less effective)

All women value respect imo, just like guys want a woman they can respect for a serious relationship. If you can't take them seriously why would you want to be with them? I believe what stage red women value is just uninhibited talent for survival. Alexander The Great type shit. Stage red is a stage about survival on a primal level. Personal expression is more so a feature of stage orange. A personal preferance for black guys is orange because preferances is already at a level where your trying to get what you want out of life, which is deeply characteristic of stage orange, as opposed to negotiating with life through uninhibited survival. Stage red doesn't think in terms of preferences. I remember reading the Saga of the Volsungs once which is a story written during the medieval ages about the history of a particular viking clan. Medieval litterature can give a lot of insight into how stage red societies operate because they are from societies that are genuinely at that stage. They'll write stuff that sounds demented in our modern age like it's completely normal. Like child murder is treated very flippantly. It's a world that is quiet alien in constrast to ours that is hard to appreciate. The book details a princess who falls in love with the main character who became a king. What she praises him for always stood out to me. Not his dashing looks or personality but his bravery, talent for conquest and war and being rich. She was so in love with this guy that when he ended up marrying a different women she killed him and his kid and then threw herself on his funeral pyre. In the end she lamented how he had declined as a warlord and king. Now that's stage red. It's very monkey.

Not spider queen, the Alien queen.

So I made a post a while back and just wanted to share some more and expand a bit on that. So, it all started back in September 25. Since then I've literally had an ongoing connection pretty much every single night (assuming it's clear out but even with heavy clouds many times), where I go outside in my backyard and orbs and beams of light come by and interact with me. I'll go outside and stare up at the sky and within minutes (sometimes they've been there waiting for me) orbs will come along and glide past me in the sky. I wave at all them, they flash their light at me (brighten/dim). It's blatant personal interaction at this point. I've seen golden beams of light come out of nowhere near me , silvery beams, flying directly parallel with my head while staring right up, right above me (like not that high up). I've seen some of the orbs turn into fast beams of light. Even on some nights where there are no orbs i will see sparks and flashes of light in the sky right where I'm looking. I'll wave and then another spark flash. It's still them. There could be somewhere between 5-20 of them each night. some nights the interaction gets wild with orb after orb "coming out of the woodwork" everywhere i turn my head. Sometimes when i'm in the car i'll see a beam of light flying by overhead right in front of where i'm looking. I think it is literally the coolest thing ever and I'm honestly very thankful I get to have experiences like this. They are essentially my friends at this point. They have also followed me to a different state in a remote location, and back home of course. What are they exactly? well I don't know. I can't use my human language programming to try and define something I most likely will not fully understand with a human mind, but if i had to guess I think they are intelligent beings with thought forms/mind types that are probably very advanced that are most likely interdimensional and can come in and out of 3d vibration and higher vibrational states of consciousness. (well humans do that too! haha. all things do that) They are very playful with me and sometimes when i cast out a mental intention like for them to go really fast, I'll see some beams of light flying fast lol. The fact I am experiencing this is my personal form of consciousness mind creating that experience within my hallucination of reality. I honestly don't really even find it out of the ordinary because the fact we are even here, experiencing this dream here is mind blowing in and of itself. Once you've awakened and see god you know its all you anyways. But just wanted to share. So yeah essentially I literally have non human intelligent friends in the form of light balls and beams/streaks of light that come by and interact with me, I feel that they are my friends. Because once you've had experiences like this 100s of times and nearly every day, you can't deny that they are communicating with you personally. I always look forward to my nightly ritual contact with them and I love them. Sometimes I think about humans in the past like 100s or 1000s of years ago having experiences like this, because I'm sure they've been around for quite some time haha. There are probably millions/billions etc of them. (i dont actually know that i'm just making assumptions) But i try to imagine what a human being in an older past would've thought, how their minds would interpret them using their programming in those times. Are they connected to "physical" humanoid alien beings? well I dont know about that, there's always a potentiality for that i guess. But the spectrum of what 99% of humans are aware of and experiences is very narrow compared to the full spectrum of infinity. Like I said, I personally don't really even find it out of the ordinary, at least not anymore with a daily schedule of this. When this first started, this entire ongoing contact, I had taken a psychedelic called 4-ho-met (metocin). In that month of september i took it once a week for 4 weeks over the month and each time i was mostly outside at night alone. I've seen some other interesting things around that time like translucent black crafts and other styles of beams etc. But thats just when all this started. I have not taken any psychedelic since then and I've had most of my contact experiences after. The way I felt at the start was shocked and in awe but now its completely normal to me. I have some theories revolving around the possibility that when in those states of consciousness on the drug, I could've casted out a different type of mental energy that they picked up on and came to observe and interact. I dont know if thats legit or not because i'll never actually know, but it only started then, not on any past psychedelic use before that. It's just mind boggling to hallucinate being a human here and having friends that are not human and highly intelligent that come by and say whatsup to me on a daily basis. Pretty out of the ordinary to most humans. But when you think about how reality itself is an infinite hallucination and how your mind is creating all of it for "you" to experience, it really doesn't seem that crazy. But because 99% of humans are not awakened and don't see reality and god in themselves, the development of their human creation/understanding is not on the same playing field so to speak. I know i'm not the only one with these experiences though. It may be rare but there are many others who also have the same or similar experiences. The type of mind I have is extremely creative, imaginative and highly analytical, not sure if that plays a role in any of this but it could. Sometimes i picture looking at myself from outside of myself standing on the ground interacting with these beings at night as if i was watching it from another point of view. When you see it from that pov it seems magical. another thread in the tapestry of infinity. If anyone reading this has some experiences they'd like to share or have any questions feel free.

Leo is finally teaching us the squirrely alien consciousness space kangaroo spider queen crocodile 😁