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Welcome. The more conscious I get the less I try to manipulate my experience or mind. I don't try to think positively or manifest stuff. I am very natural and easy-going. There were years in my life where I did a lot of visualization exercises and tried to control my mind a lot. It had its uses but I also outgrew that. The challenge for me is that I am very creative and always having new insights, so meditation is not very effective for the way my mind works. For me meditation just boils down to sitting still and enjoying Consciousness. Sometimes I'm in the mood for that, but often not because I am using my mind for understanding reality deeper. So there are some trade-offs there. Not a fan There is some truth to the notion that ignroance is bliss. Life was a lot easier when I didn't even know spirituality was a thing. I could just work on my biz and be happy. Now that is not possible because I know too much and biz cannot make me happy like it used to. But that is compensated for by my insane understanding of Consciousness. So I have no regrets.

I went to sleep for about four hours and I woke up realizing I didn't set the alarm, I used the restroom, and then I laid back down to go back to sleep... I was asking myself if I'm really afraid that all of this experience of a physical nature and the perception of interaction with objects will just disappear... I had this feeling before when I was going through my transition in my ceremonies... I had experienced that it was time for me to just not exist. I remember how I told myself I'm just now getting the hang of this existence... i'm getting to the point where I'm appreciating this reality... and I'm still wanting to live it more fully... but I also was in the surrender phase so if it was my time to not experience this anymore then it's my time. There's also an experience that wasn't in my direct awareness it's like a vision of my future where I'm just sitting there deeply contemplating what reality is and then I suddenly see white light and that's all that left and it's as if everything I knew as physical disappears. I'm calm when I'm viewing this but then I know i feel like i'm afraid that it will happen. I'm trying to go back into my direct experience... what do I know? I know that in the ceremonies I had that feeling... it was peaceful even though I was accepting my fate to not exist in this world. It was my mind in the state of consciousness that really started to run rampant. In fact the more I allowed my mind in that state run I ended up telling myself... I'm never going to experience having sex and more. I had been celibate and now i'm going to die without allowing myself to have sex, and I'm going to miss that. ideally I wanted to have sex with someone who has been present in my ceremonies for four years. He has been a muse to me without him realizing to what extent. Because he wasn't with me physically it was easy for me to become celibate. The depth of my messages of him inspired me some much that I knew what had touched me so deeply that I couldn't be so careless to allow myself or others to express anything less than the love and curiosity I feel for him. I can't pretend that I want to experience sexual relations with someone I dont want to share those experiences with... not just with anyone because they're in my physical experience out of convenience. I feel I have a responsibility to myself and to others... I don't want to pretend that there's a bond that i want to create with them that involves a sexual nature. I know I just don't want to have sex with this man. I know that there is going to be so much depth to our relationship that it will be deeply spiritual. He's already my spiritual lover... I've been giving myself time and space to prepare for our intense reunion, and allowing time and space for him to prepare too. I know the deeper I go into my spirituality, the more i'm going to attract my lover who is just as spiritual. But I'm developing emotionally, psychologically, intellectually, creatively, physically... The more I do this, the more i'll attract my lover who is developing himself to higher degrees as well. Before my dad went to sleep he put a meatloaf in the oven. He asked me to turn off the oven and put the meatloaf away. I set an alarm because we both knew I'd get lost into my Journal. So I had to do that real quick) If you've ever experienced a psychedelic then you might understand what i'm saying when I give this example. Especially if you have experienced the depth and unknowness of the experience and the magnitude of difference we originally perceive from the waking world. Well he would be my psychedelic lover and anyone else would be the waking world... lol... now that I'm experiencing the waking world as a ceremony without psychedelics... i'm starting to transition my ideas of a psychedelic, spiritual lover into a manifestation of the waking world too. It's not like I just have visions in the jungle about a man out there somewhere. We have met. We met on our first ceremonies of Aya five and a half years ago. Before we all shared our ceremonies for the first time I remember how we instantly were attracted to each other. At my state of consciousness at that time, the first thing that I was attracted to was how handsome he was. I happened to be in the van that went to pick him up from the airport. We were pulling up and he was standing there and my heart started racing... "wow... i'm so fucking lucky that I chose this van"... lol... automatically I qualified myself not worthy though... "but he's probably too good for me." So he was getting help to put his bags on top and got into the van. I remember I watched him get in with a friendly smile, but I didn't want to stare... or be too obvious... lol... so I looked out my window and waited for the van to continue... I was giving it time before I went to check him out again. But in my periphery I actually noticed he was checking me out. I was trying to play it cool and pretended I didn't notice. But I remember I was happy that he actually was seeming to maybe think i was attractive too. But I was playing it cool... and I'm pretty good socially and there was all this new stuff going on so I just went with it and tried to be in the moment as much as i could be in my current state of consciousness which I didn't really realize existed like I am more aware of now. There were other moments that I saw our eyes connect with curiosity. When we all gathered into the long wooden boat... it seemed like we wanted to get seats close to each other but not that close... I wanted a good distance to observe him. Also we had a choice of three rooms to pick to sleep and place our belongings... I walked into a room and turned to see if he was going to choose the same room, but three other guys followed me in and so our room was full. I saw him watching me and even noticed a slight hesitation that maybe he should've acted quicker, but two rooms were already filled and so I watched him walk to the remaining room. To be honest I don't know when we had our first one on one conversation... for the most part we had conversations with the group and so we were feeling each other out in a subtle way. I just want to say there is a lot more to my experience of the first of my Aya ceremonies, but I'm choosing to remember my thoughts about this spiritual lover of mine... and at this time I didn't even think that this is my spiritual lover... he was just some stranger who happened to be at the same retreat as I was. He was handsome yes, but many men are handsome. It wasn't until I experienced my ceremonies did something else evolve into my awareness. Lol... I'm not sure if i'm repeating myself or not... it's getting hard to distinguish the conversation I'm typing from the conversation in my mind... but I'll just go with it... if I repeat myself it's only to get into the the context of what i'm expressing at this time. In the first ceremonies I was getting visions from eight of the other guests there for ceremony. They were talking to me, but I couldn't hear what they were saying. I got a vision of him and he was sleeping. I got a few visions of him during the ceremony, but always he was sleeping. I was concerned after ceremony that these people were in my ceremonies... i was told that these ceremonies deal with you personally... so why were others in my experience? and why couldn't i hear what they were saying to me? The second ceremony was when my entire reality was shattered but in a great way... after this ceremony I knew I was never going to be the same. What I considered impossible was happening and so I knew that there is so much more than what I thought I knew. Especially when I started singing Icaros in a language I only heard the night before. Not just singing any Icaros but the same Icaros the female shaman was singing... I knew the song and I was creating a harmony with her with ease. Not only did it shock me but it shocked the facilitators who've been a part of the retreat for years with these shamans. They hadn't seen that before. Most of the time I was sending out positive vibes of love and encouragement for people (mostly the eight that had shown themselves to me on the first ceremony) and sending my energy abundance for the shamans to draw on for assistance. At that state of consciousness, I thought I was being possessed by Gaia or Aya themselves... I never thought that it was a side of me awakening and showing itself to me and others. No way was I capable of having those powers. I started getting an awareness of who the shamans were working on directly. It's pitch black, maybe I have an awareness that I knew where people were when we began... and I can still sense when they moved from one person to the other and who that person was. When they were working on him my body was in a state of ecstatic euphoric bliss. I didn't need to send my energy or vibes out for assistance at those times. Instead it was as if my body and soul was letting me know something my mind couldn't fathom at that time. But I didn't want my mind to take over... I just let my body and emotions express itself and the laughter and elation and the sexual arousal was out of this world. In that moment I was realizing this strange man was the man i've been waiting for this whole time. (after the ceremony my mind would return questioning the experience whether this can be possible or not, but in the moment I knew) I reached a point of complete surrender so i wasn't hiding any of my responses in ceremony... in fact that's what the female shaman had said when we asked how I was able to sing Icaros with her the next day during the recalling of our experience. When you completely surrender anything can happen. I wasn't the first guest to do that... she said i was the second. When I was expressing my experience of the entire second ceremony I get really caught up in my emotions and I remember even briefly mentioning my sexual frustration with a guest and gestured his way but not trying to catch his eyes and I said it quickly enough that most probably didn't catch it. I thought maybe he didn't either, but he confirmed from a later conversation that he heard it but then questioned if i actually said it out loud... lol... the guests who were laying next to me in ceremony mentioned how much energy they were feeling from me... it was intense for them. One of them was laughing at himself and at me, because when I was in that ecstatic state he said i was arousing him with all the noises i was making... lol The third ceremony I connected to my Samoan side. I mentioned I wasn't really sure about the culture since I hadn't lived it for most of my life, but during this ceremony I started doing the "sa'sa" dance. It's a style of dance the Samoans do when they use their body and the floor or ground to create rhythms. Normally it's done in a group setting but again it was as if my body and soul knew exactly what it was doing as if i had been doing this my entire life. I didn't let my mind stop me. So not only do you have two shamans singing their Icaros... you have a guest creating percussion beats and rhythms using her body and floor throughout the ceremony...lol... I had an endless stream of energy... and again I just wanted to send my love, encouragement, and energy for everyone to use to help heal whatever they were going through. I remember thinking we all chose to come here and work out the shit that's stopping us... you can do it! we can do it! Let's do it! We're doing it! I was chanting as well but it wasn't the Samoan language... it wasn't Shipibo either... it was a language I hadn't heard before but damn it for some reason it was natural. Not always did i know what i was saying but at other times i was getting the impression of the what i was saying. I don't remember having any messages of him... i was focused on the collective as a whole not singling out my attention on one person at a time. lol.. i remember that the shamans finished their Icaros and they have to wait until our energies settle before they close ceremony... I was so full of energy that I didn't want to stop i just started doing it softer. It was getting so quiet around us and I knew I should stop soon but i just couldn't stop until i knew it was time to stop. the comments I got from everyone the next day were very humorous. How were you doing that? You're a one person band? I couldn't imagine anyone being able to snap as quickly as you were. I thought there were insects in the room at one time... I remember feeling the same way when i was tapping my nails on the floor during a section of ceremony... lol Those first ceremonies I just couldn't believe how scared i was when i went but in ceremony it's like i've never been as happy as i was while i was in them... Each ceremony my mind would think there's nothing that can beat this ceremony this has to be the best ceremony i'll ever have... but each one kept getting better and better. Again people next to me would mention how my energy was affecting them by being next to me... it was as if new people would find their way to lay next to me to see what it felt like... lol There was a day when we did a day hike on the land and I know he and I finally made our way next to each other to get some one on one time. I was amused because I'm so short compared to him and he's like a giant. I felt like it was easy for me to move around the jungle with my height, but I could see the extra effort he had to do to get around. He scraped his back on a fallen tree he was trying to duck under. There was a few us that ended up getting bees stuck in our hair. I can't remember if he was the one that ran into it or not... lol... maybe because he's so tall but anyway these bees are burrowing bees so it felt like they were trying to burrow into your skull... I was so high on life that I was laughing about it and just slowly trying to remove them from my hair and everyone was helping each other out so it didn't take long. but our guide said that stories say that if you encounter these bees unexpectedly it a sign of fertility soon. During this day I knew he was gaining more interest in me and he was trying to get to know me a little more personally. When I was going through these experiences again my mind was like how is this possible... what's really going on? and who in the hell is this guy? My approach at that time is to keep my distance and observe.... I'm not going to approach him let me see if he wants to approach me or not... this could all just be in my head. But I started to get confirmation that at least there's a mutual attraction going on. We all gathered into a boat to ride down the river... again we wanted to be close but not too close... everyone had their cameras out recording and taking pictures of the beauty we found ourselves in. All of a sudden the guide picked out monkeys... it's the guides land and so he's been building a relationship with these monkey... lol... i had a nickname the jungle man for him... not too inventive but still... lol... he started to call to him with the noises... I'm recording all of this they are making their way through the trees and all of a sudden they're climbing down the trees to enter our boat. and the guide was already passing out bananas for us to feed them...i wasn't even aware of it because i was looking through the view of my camera and I didn't want to miss the opportuinity to capture footage of my first monkeys in their natural habitat.. and then they are right next to us... sitting on our laps moving from one to another... climbing on our bodies and shoulders to get from one place to another... one ended up sitting next to the ledge by me and i was able to pet him and just touch him sending out vibes of safety and love. There was another monkey that started to fall and I caught him before he hit anything.. they were wrapping around our bodies with their long tails... it was just absolutely amazing! So I have my camera trying to capture it all and I also found myself trying to get some footage of him during this experience but again not trying to linger long and being too obvious of my attraction towards him. I still have the footage and I caught him recording me and he was kind of in awe of me and then caught himself... and went back to engaging with everything going on. After a while we ended up in a large open area of the river and the guide pointed out the pink dolphins... I'm hunting around with my camera trying to capture footage of them. He stopped the boat to see if anyone was interested in swimming. I knew I wanted to... I looked at him to see if he was going to dive in or not.. and we were checking out what we were going to decide... we didn't bring swimsuits we'd just have to go in with what we had on. Actually maybe we did have swimsuits on... i think he had his swim shorts on and maybe i had one on under my clothes. I don't remember removing my clothes I just looked at him and I started taking off my boots and he did too and we just dove into the water. It's so refreshing to swim in the river. Every morning during the retreat I would swim in the river while everyone was still sleeping... I'd do it before I would do some yoga and breathing techniques until it was breakfast time. Any way... I wasn't swimming with him... i was enjoying how much I love to swim and because of how everything was going I thought maybe the pink dolphins would come and swim with us... lol... they didn't but it was so nice... everything was so right We ended up on a sandy beach where we docked and allowed everyone to walk around. We were all so peaceful and happy... As I was walking, I found a few fish bones that I recognized the female shaman using in her jewelry. I found three of them and so i figured i'd give them to her so she can use them. I did when we returned. We don't speak the same language so I was telling her to make her jewelry with what I found and left it at that. The fourth ceremony is a little hazy to me now. I remember before we started he came to lay next to me but not right next to me. He had a space for someone to lay between us. I remember chuckling and said it's much safer to not be next to me. If you're next to me it could be dangerous... lol... he laughed and said I like a little danger... and I commented that might be what you say now... But the most of what I remember is feeling like I was a caterpillar in it's cocoon transforming. I had a vision of a swampy unhealthy location which was a symbol of my digestive system. I need to change my behavior of what i'm allowing myself to consume. I wasn't too outwardly active. This was definitely my own internal ceremony. I believe I even fell asleep for a while in my little cocoon. I was hardly sleeping while I was there. I didn't sleep in my bed except for the last night... I'd always try to sleep for a while in the maloka...the ceremonial room. Usually there were two other girls that would sleep there with me. I had so much energy that my sleep wouldn't last long and I'd make my way to the river for my routine while I was there. The two girls were roommates back in Utah.. They are amazing women and there's so much i'm leaving out because I'm just trying to recall the gist of my experience with this Spiritual man. One of the girls mentioned one time after her ceremony during our group discussions... that she saw two of the guests together in the ceremony...I heard her, but I didn't know she was talking to me. It could've been any of us. After the retreat and we were back into the main city to leave did she end up confronting me about it. She knew it was me and she knew it was him. She said we were snakes entangling ourselves around a staff moving upwards. It was like we were a living caduceus. She also said that she and i were building a green temple together. The female shaman gave me my bones back in necklace form... I was so surprised... I didn't know she thought I wanted her to make me necklaces from what I found. I loved them though and it felt really special to me. I had three and so I kept one and I knew I wanted to give him one, and I had another friend who I was building a good relationship with... he's actually the one i was singing the Icaros towards in the second ceremony. So I gave him the last one. When I gave it to my Spiritual lover, he accepted it with an open heart. When he tried it on though it was too small... so I had to try to explain to the female shaman that I needed her to extend it... using sign language techniques and pointing at him... she understood. And now we've come to the fifth ceremony the final ceremony of this retreat. He decided it's time to be next to me in ceremony. I was excited and nervous at the same time... This is where I'm starting to feel a little hesitation. I want to not be ashamed and embarrassed. Early I said there are things in my past that I thought was embarrassing but I have healed those already... but as my mind had time to continue processing I knew there were things still in my memory that I'm embarrassed and ashamed of I haven't healed. But I realize there's nothing to be ashamed of because it just happened to be where my state of consciousness was and I didn't know any better. This spiritual man.... because it's so fantastical is something that makes me feel embarrassed and ashamed of expressing to others. I've tried to express them with friends and family and because of their state of consciousness and their experiences... there's no way that could be happening to me... i'm just hallucinating. In fact this spiritual man was the one that told me these are "just visions in the jungle" There's nothing deeper than that. I was confident in some of my messages during ceremony... especially when they dealt with only me... like the digestive cleansing and also somehow naturally having shamanic abilities. But the rest especially dealing with him I wasn't so confident in. I would allow them to convince or at least put doubt in me that I was looking at it all wrong. but also there's another part that remembers how clearly I was understanding the situation during ceremony... so powerfully and with certainty that I couldn't ignore either. There was definitely this back and forth battle I was dealing with. He and I have been in contact since these first ceremonies and let me tell you it wasn't what i expected. And I know it makes him uncomfortable expressing my curiosity towards him. At first he was caught in the flow of it all and then when he returned back into his "real life" away from ceremony... it was apparent that our experience was just a result of hallucinations and fake feelings and emotions we shared, but in real life this cannot continue. These are not his words these are my interpretation of what he was expressing to me. But again why am I hesitant to continue... because he's a private man. He's been recording spiritual podcasts since he returned from the ceremonies and at one time he was with a group that showed their faces. He however placed a virtual figure over himself as if he was wearing a mask so others couldn't see who his true identity is. What is he hiding from others and himself? Why am I concerned that he's going to be upset if I continue to share our experience with the collective? Who's going to read this anyway? As far as I know from how he's spoken to me... we just happen to be friendly with each other from time to time. I'm just some girl he had a few good times with, but I'm out there... I'm crazy and intense... my life experience is completely different from his own... and he can't or doesn't want to understand that. (What he thinks about me is from his judgements on me... he doesn't want to confirm the truth by actually getting to know me.) We're from two different countries and he's not ready to have a serious relationship... with someone long distance... or maybe never at all. (I had experienced polyamorous relationships before and I remember asking him if that's an option because I don't want him to stop wanting to share relationsips with other people if he wants to, but I'd like to get to know him better and would like to start a relationship with him that involves sharing feelings about his and my experiences) She might be sweet and spiritual, but her understanding of spirituality is whoo-whoo... it's not a true in-depth search into spirituality. (He is so closed minded about the "proper" way to do spirituality... in fact because he doesn't have an open mind in this area... it's hard to be attracted to him) I also think he assumes I'm interested in him for his money... I literally didn't even think about his money... i didn't care what money he has... that wasn't anything I cared about when I'm looking for a romantic partner. In fact I usually stayed cleared of men with money because i felt ashamed that i was poor. When I started to get the picture, he had a good job and probably made decent money i could hear my insecurities welling up inside me. But because of the intensity of the messages, I was trying to overcome that insecurity to give it a chance. Am I still attached to the words he expressed to me now? Maybe a little because I remember it affecting me. But what do you know now about this situation? I know I wasn't conscious and neither was he. Can i blame myself or him for not being conscious... no it's just how it is... we don't know until we know. Am I conscious? yes... but i know my consciousness will continue to mature, but there does seem to be a huge shift of what being conscious means. Is he conscious? he is, but he hasn't hit the huge shift yet... but I know he will continue to mature too. I get confirmations all the time of this during ceremonies. But I can read his behavior and hear the words he speaks to determine his level of consciousness and I can confirm in my direct experience that it's not attractive, regardless of the messages I've received... of course there's a desire to attract when it's time and with patience which again is ever present in my messages... but in my direct experience it is not now. Just because he's not fully attractive to me at this time... does it mean that I should reveal what he would consider secrets? NO... I want him to trust me... I am trust-worthy... it doesn't matter i'm ready to expose myself completely... he is not ready... I feel i would need his permission. I respect him and our relationship. Alright I've decided to not continue with all the details. I'm just trying to build up an understanding of how much he means to me. I thought after the first trip to Peru it would stop when I had ceremonies without him. I joked with him when I was returning for my second round... that maybe the spell he cast on me will be broken... it was a joke but i was also curious what these rounds of ceremonies would reveal. Short and simple... it didn't stop it just deepens. I get messages in my dreams and even while I'm doing art at times. It just continues.. I got sidetracked because I was trying to really talk about the moment I thought the physical world was going to collapse or dissolve around me. The moment I made unconscious decisions because I didn't know any better. These moments that afterwards I was ashamed and embarrassed of because I can ask myself... why didn't you know better? how could you have done this or allow others to do that to you? I didn't know what I didn't know... and I was unconscious and others were unconscious too. Do I need to go through all the details to purge it out? No I don't think so... I think I can pick out the moments of memory that is still holding me back and purge it out myself. I know I have been getting a feeling that I don't have to share everything so openly. Which is really hard for me I want to be open and vulnerable... but I'm getting a deeper understanding that the conscious level of the collective isn't ready to support me with my experiences. Because of their judgements it will affect me. Instead of me processing and trying to manifest... if I tell more people the more they will influence the process. If they don't agree or if they are negative with what I express then... it's just going to be more of a challenge for me. If i can keep it to myself or run into people who understand then it's going to be easier to manifest. The collective conscious affects me and I affect the collective consciousness. Recalling this first thought of death... I had to overcome that fear to experience it... and that's when the huge shift happened in my life. If I'm still remembering or even having future visions of the physical world dissapearing still... is it really scary? It's not really scary to me because I know that there is no finality... there's no end... there's no completion... these words were created to find a way to communicate concepts... but these words don't actually describe existence. Maybe it's not the fear of it going to happen... but it's the fear that I have visions I want to create in this aspect of experiencing this physical world that I want to experience before I transition to whatever is next. But I know how safe I am... I know how ultimately loving and patient this infinitely intelligent consciousness we are is... it's always helping me to ready to be ready to be ready... and so when i'm ready to have the physical world dissolve... I'll be ready for it... for now my fear is the powerful opportunity I have, and I want to be more conscious, so the appreciation is not being lost to be less conscious. I want to be my highest potential... and I am at the degree of my development of consciousness. My potential will continue to increase but i'm going to stop shaming myself and others from their past decisions or even their current decisions. I'm not going to be embarrassed there's nothing to be embarrassed about. We are living in perfection... which again may seem chaotic, but really its infinitely intelligent and I don't need to force or shame existence. It's what's teaching me truth. I'm going to allow it to guide me.

Learn cutting off (or seeing them for what they are, as objects moving in you) your separate self arisings (thoughts and feelings) in your mindstream. They will get/arise faster and faster, and you can see them emerging out of consciousness as consciousness, and being elaborated in language afterwards. I had to read "Pointing out the Great Way," by Daniel Brown (chapters Skill of Reckognition and Yoga of Unelaboration) ten times plus to get it, and try a lot in implementing it. Pointing out the Great Way is a synthesis and summary of the Mahadmudra-System of Tibetan Buddhism. If you learn to cut off these mental arisings, at first they get faster and faster (Skill of Reckognition). That is some kind of protection mechanism of the separate self/Ignorance/Maya. Look into their nature, they arise out of empty and aware consciousness, they are not separate from consciousness, and they return to consciousness. But the tricks of the separate self mindstream arisings are limited, at some point you know all these separate self arisings (thoughts and feelings). The first shift comes when you can cut them all off and stay in the Awareness that you are (Skill of Reckognition). From that point onwards, bliss develops just from doing that. And later, it starts getting vast spaciousness and nondual. And you realize the Always-Here-Mind (Yoga of Unelaboration). That You/Mind/Reality doesn't come and go on time, but is always here, eternal and fundamental. And then you develop full Nonduality of the Visual Field as mere infinite appearance (Yoga of One Taste), and from there on fully "empty out" the separate self in Nonmeditation Yoga (Awakened Awareness being Reality itself). Up until this first shift (Skill of Reckognition, see above), meditation can be pleasant or unpleasant. After this shift, you generate your own happiness, on the pillow and off the pillow. In Mahamudra its called the three special states of bliss, clarity and nonconceptual stillness. And try some Psychedelics as preview for Nonduality/infinite Visual Field of mere appearance, and to empty out/transcend the separate self. Just don't expect that you have enough time in these states to empty or transcend that last remnants of the separate self (very subtle feelings of individuality/separtness watching some kind of infinity) fully. If it all gets transcend permanently, great and Namaste! But if you can't sustain that state sobre, maybe some separate self arisings still happen to cloud over the infinite mere appearance awareness-space that You are. All the best ( : Selling Water by the River

Nobody in this forum is enlightened, including me. Enlightenment is far beyond god-realization, there is actual nirvana and moksha and paranirvana and infinite different levels of liberation and bliss. One day everyone reading this will be enlightened

Your True Nature = Bliss/Happiness itself. The Source of it. The nearer you get, the better you feel. You will only rest when you are happy/blissfull, by definition. So how could being happy and free from anxiety not be important? Maybe my last post is also interesting for you. Water by the River

Nice. The bliss of the flow state is the little sister of the bliss when resting in Your True Being. Flow is very powerful, and a major source of bliss while still being in the claws of the separate-self-contraction. A main building block of the separate self is discontent, suffering and contraction, clearly felt behind the forehead. How much tension there is you clearly get to feel when its gone. Or before fully waking up, when passing from sleep to the waking state, that contraction kicks in. I remember a day when that didn't kick in the morning. Dzogchen-Trekchö: Release that tension, and any of the increasinly subtle separates sense-arisings/feelings. Gradually releasing these tensions (some tradition call it chakra-knots), energy flows more freely, the bliss of your True Nature begins to flow, turning the visual field gradually more nondual and bright and lucid, mere appearance, and identity more empty and empty.... the merry-go-round of Awakening -> Understanding/Realization -> Awakening -> Understanding/Realization -> ... Until... the bottom of the bucket breaks. What do you need to get a Lila/World going? Separate Self Arisings in the mindstream = frequent discontent/suffering/self-contraction. And experiences that relieve that [Maslows-Pyramid stage 1-6, plus X]. And you have the Samsara show of drama-comedy-tragedy merry-go-round. Not that too many just rest in their True Being, and are blissfull without [Maslows-Pyramid stage 1-6, plus X]. And, o-dare-you, wake-up. Show must go on.... What are the real Heros of Manifestation? Not the "ones" that wake up. But the ones that keep the show going. Stage 6 Maslow by the way was Self-Transcendence, which he added later in life. Funny, I have never seen stage 6 Self-Transcendence being used in a Business-Training-context using the Maslow-Pyramid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Highwaymen_(country_supergroup) ... I fly a starship Across the Universe divide And when I reach the other side I'll find a place to rest my spirit if I can Perhaps I may become a highwayman again Or I may simply be a single drop of rain But I will remain I'll be back again and again and again and again and again and again >Yeah, that’s what’s been my aim with psychedelics and 5 meo, to reach states that I couldn’t reach sober but then help that inform my understanding in my sober state. I can get into some deeper meditative states where things first start to move around and then begins to dissolve into light but it doesn’t compare to a more powerful trip. I have noticed how my understanding in my sober state makes my trips deeper so I can see that merry-go-round effect. To be continued!

>I feel like it’s become a living reality in some ways but there is also conditioning that is pulling me back and how I experience things now in relation to that conditioning I’ve definitely felt and still feel to some extent that I’ve completely lost my mind and gone insane because it’s so far out compared to what I thought reality was 3-4 years ago. Be good to your separate self. It is not that you are not that, but you are not ONLY that. You contain it. If you say "You are not it", on one hand it is true, on the other hand you contain it. You give rise to it, it arises in you. So in the end, you are not ONLY it (credits concerning the "you are not not only that" to Colette Davie). In Ken Wilbers language: Differentiation and Integration vs. Disassociation and .... problems. Your separate self will operate better, more efficient, more loving and way smarter when you no longer have ignorance, or believe to be ONLY that separate self. In the words of Daniel Brown: The small you/separate self gets out of the way, Awakened Awareness (Mahamudra/Dzogchen-term for Infinite Consciousness/Reality) takes over and does all tasks and daily life at hand much more smarter than the separate small self/you could. And since the intelligence from the separate self is just borrowed from the infinite Intelligence of Reality, you just remove a filter limiting the flow of intelligence and intuition. The "I am not only the separate self",or "the separate self arises in me, and its just a bundle/a Gestalt of moving I feelings/thoughts, with no real existence beyond its structure/Gestalt/structure-Gestalt=probability-arising-distribution of thoughts/feelings" is in my opinion the more sophisticated version of Neti Neti. The separate self Gestalt/structure arisings "borrows" its appearance of being real/consciousness from Infinite Consciousness, like the planets are only shining from the light of the sun. It doesnt really exist/shine on its own (see the Video of Francis Lucille below). What is conscious is not the separate self, but infinite consciousness. And the separate self believing itself to be true is just being that misunderstanding arising/moving in that which is really conscious. You look out from your body like you look out from your car, but you are not your car. And with the separate self thoughts/feelings moving in you, its a bit more tricky, but a similiar confusion/mistaking what consciousness really is.... The only thing that fully drops from the separate self is the belief-concept (feeling and thought arisings) that you are only this body-mind or flow of identity-arisings. The rest of the separate self (or small you instead of You) can and should remain fully functional in You (Reality itself), that is the healthy version of the process. But if it all happens too fast (which can lead to a more "interesting" and unhealthy version of the process, with too little integration, see what happened to Ramana in the beginning. So huge is the bliss of realizing and dwelling in what You really are....). And until you experience the stabilized and integrated form, it can be an interesting ride... Have some humor on the path, a good map, and bon voyage! Luckily, it all happens in that which You really are, and you never can loose that. >I do admit that I’m to a certain extent trying to figure it out by thinking and reason but I’ve also experiences some unreasonable things in my trips so I know it has limits. I have had some breakthroughs but it’s not all clear so I’m weary of thinking ”I got it” and I can still feel there is this sense of wanting to ”grasp”. But I hope this can open me up more and help me go beyond that. To really get it, you need a change of state, an Awakening, as you write. For example via Psychedelics, and/or a good meditation system, like "Pointing out the Great Way, Brown". Or ideally, both. Then from these Awakenings come hopefully good/correct understandings/realizations. Correct understandings = understandings that facilitate and don't block further understandings/realization and Awakening-States. It is a merry-go-round of Awakening -> Realization/Understanding -> Awakening a level higher-> Realization/Understanding a level higher -> ... . Until you conform fully to the Enlightened Mind: And when your level of Awakening, boosted and stabilized by a foundation of correct or non-ignorant Understanding/Realization reaches a certain level, then Crossing Over to fully Realizing your True Nature can happen (necessary is normally a certain time of seeing the whole Visual Field/Awareness Bubble as mere infinite appearance arising, and seeing ALL thought/feeling-arisings moving as empty appearances in you). Especially the last point takes some time... A nice description is in Pointing Out the Great Way, Chapters on Crossing Over and Basis Enlightenment (Basis= Awakening to the Absolute Nature of Reality, in Zen "Great Enlightenment"). So you have to conform in Awakening State AND Understanding/Realization to the Real Nature of Things/Reality/Enlightened Mind, and then Crossing Over can happen all by itself. Infinite Consciousness/Reality realizing Itself what it is, Reality realizing Reality itself, since Reality is Infinite Consciousness. IT understands itself. And then one normally wonders why you haven't seen the forest for the trees earlier.... But hey, what a ride! But you can't force Crossing Over, that would be yet more of so called "artificial actitivites" of the separte-self-Gestalt, creating more Illusion while trying to force it. And that is why it is so difficult, and I am a bit less than totally happy with most of the maps we have so far about this process. Some traditions like Zen even made what some would call a fetish (sorry) out of throwing the maps away, like throwing away the Laṅkāvatāra Sūtra-Map [Wikipedia: the most important doctrines of the Laṅkāvatāra are the primacy of consciousness (Skt. vijñānavada), the teaching that consciousness as the only reality and that "all the objects of the world, and the names and forms of experience, are manifestations of the mind" as well as the "identification of the Buddha-nature (in the state of tathāgatagarbha) with alayavijñāna"]. More on that, see Wilber Integral Buddhism, chapter on Zen. Throwing maps away is true on some limited level, like getting out of only conceptual thinking into non-conceptual Awareness itself. But still... Look at the success-rate of enlightened ones, or rather the non-success-rate... Yet, I must admit I still love Zen, like whats more precise than your face before your parents were born? Or the Sound of the One Hand? Best map I have found so far is Pointing Out the Great Way, Daniel Brown. That, maybe boosted by Psychedelics to get some introduction to the Nondual-States faster... And for Buddhism & Psychedelics, see: Psychedelic Buddhism: A User's Guide to Traditions, Symbols, and Ceremonies, Crowley, and Secret Drugs of Buddhism: Psychedelic Sacraments and the Origins of the Vajrayana, Crowley. Not that Buddhism would ever do something like that.... ( : Francis Lucille on: Planets (separate self) shining in the light of the sun (Infinite Consciousness/Reality). They don't shine by themselves. Selling Water by the River ( :

I agree to all that Leo has written above. Some musings from over here: Free will vs. Determinism: The Real You (Infinite Consciousness/Reality) has absolute freedom. The separate self illusion arising in you just feels like being you, but is not you, never was you, never will be you. Never could. You contain these arisings of the separte self in the real You. So it doesn't really exist, and since it doesn't exist, it has no freedom. But the Real You has absolute freedom. Nothing is or could be outside of it to limit its power. You project this freedom that you so strongly intuit on the separate self. So it is an illusion/ignorance. But the core of that feeling of freedom of choice it true, it is the Real You. But: That reasoning will not be clear before some Awakenings into what you are, and then it can help you passing and ripening that understanding, and stabilizing you in resting what You are. Then & there it is beneficial. Before that, it is just impossible to fully get it. Structure of your World-Bubble-Perspective/Visual Field: Since any form of boundary between perspectives would be an imagined arising, it is illusory, an appearance. Your current consciousness is limited, you forget all other perspectives in real time. But you add/imagine separate self arisings (feelings and thoughts), which are the illusion/ignorance. With more consciousness, you can have a Vision like Leavitt (see book cover with infinite perspectives). To get Enlightenment or Omniscience into the structure of Reality, you don't need to see all perspectives, but to fully understand the nature/structure/essence of your perspective, which you then realize has necessarily to hold for all other perspectives/beings. And for all dimensions, since there are only perspectives in Indras Net. N+1 -style. Even a Molecule is some kind of proto-perspective, the interiortity of a Holon in Ken Wilbers theory for example. Although a very rudimentary one. Here some ideas/Koans how to investigate your perspective, and which kind of [Awakenings/Enlightenments] you need: all appearances are imagined arisings in you, any boundary to any other perspective would just be imagined/arising (so not real, just appearing): What is necessary for that Awakening: A state of sufficient Nonduality , appearances appearing as just appearances (hovering in you, hologram-like/translucent). Not the normal everyday state, so either lot of meditation done correctly or Psychedelics are necessary. Psychedelics are very useful to get a preview on that, it takes a while to get there via meditation. the True You as the fully empty Nothingness which is "structurally infinite": Awakening in to the Nothingness or empty cogniziant nature of your core. "Structurally infinite", since any boundary limiting it would just be an imagined appearance, NOT really limiting it, but appearing within it. Something outside that imagined boundary can always also appear/be imagined. And since it is infinite, has no boundary (that would just be an arising in itself), it can't go anywhere, can't die: Awakening into eternity or "always necessary here-ness, can't go anywhere else-ness, can not not be there-ness". Also wasn't created (that would be another arising). It has nothing outside of itself (would be another appearance/arising) which could have created or caused it. That is a mindf*** (sorry) of the highest degree once you stumble over it. No daddy, but You get used to it. ( : It can imagine whatever it wants (omnipotent). Then we have timeless/eternal, nonlocal/"everywhere"/every possible being and reality, literally the only "One" or Reality itself, nothing can be outside of It (omnipresent), and omnipotent (since its the only Reality, no other Reality is stopping It from whatever it wants). So we have eternal, infinite, omnipotent/all powerful. And in some persepctives/beings, it even knows its structural fundamental nature: omniscient of its fundamental structure/being. And that is where sometimes the God-word (eternal, omnipresent, omnipotent, infinite, omniscient) comes in.... But please, don't use any of these insights for separate-self-identity/arisings. That only makes trouble and, you know, bad Karma. Because it is just not true. All of that holds for the True Nature of You, not some not-really-existing (EX-isting = standing out from reality) separate self. But it is not standing out from Reality, it is moving in it, as it, the temporary arising separate-self illusion moving within you and temporary capturing the show for itself. after all of that, you can Awaken to the nature/structure of Manifested/Appearing Reality/Consciousness, God Mind, Infinite, Brahman, Nonduality, ... However you want to call it. The last step is: (oh yes, after all of the above when having been stabilized in it for some time (days, months, years), the last big shift comes. And you won't overlook that one, because all of the above is gradual. This one is quantum). You won't overlook this one, you don't need to contemplate it, don't need to "make a decission" on it or on what you hold as true. It is totally fundamentally self-evident. It IS YOU. With that, you can look the devil in the eye and not blink. You will have the peace and bliss of your True Nature, that is "maintenance-free", since it IS You. It is variously called Great Enlightenment (Zen), Basis Enlightenment (Mahamdura Brown, Pointing out the Great Way), Great Liberation, ... Who or what is aware of all of that described above? Of the nondual infinite God-Mind Bubble Universe of manifested Infinite Consciousness floating in Infinity, as Infinity. What is the Reality/Awareness of Yours, that is inseparable of this Reality? What is the Awareness/"Subject" in perceptions perceiving themselves, without ever possibly having any location/center? What is the Reality/Awareness that can be originally "unaware" when no appearances arise in You (for example, in unware "normal" Deep Sleep), but has the potential of sentience as soon as an appearance is manifested? Who is hearing these words right now? What is this Absolute Subject, the Absolute Nothingness, that is so empty as Subject itself that the Absolute Abyss, that even God can't see anything in It? That you can only "experience", or that becomes available when "looking back" from "one level lower" and intuit/understand it as absolute Abyss of the Absolute Subject that you are? That then can be intuited/realized as total Abyss/Nothingness. That can never be any form or arising, because "the eye can't see" itself style? The Unmanifested Consciousness Reality that can be unaware of itself if no appearance is imagined, and yet that manifests as any possible world appearance in itself as itself, totally nondual, as the One Infinite Reality? What is beyond Manifested/Appearing Reality/Consciousness, God Mind, Infinite, Brahman, Nonduality, beyond all of that, but at the same time expressing itself through that? What remains if all of that, the Universe-Appearance, is switched off and ends, and before a new creation arises (for example in Deep unaware Sleep, or immediately after death before the show goes on)? What is the unmanifested "side" of Consciousness/Reality/Nothingness, but which is not different at all from the appearances arising within it, as it? That which can not not be there? That which has been called Para-Brahman, Godhead, the Absolute, Absolute Awareness, Infinite Awareness. The Fundamental Real You. That neither exists as appearance, nor does not exist because something still appears? The Water of the River that every Being is at its core. Or much much more precise, after all my clumsy descriptions above have failed: The Clap of the One Hand, or your face before your parents were born. And since You are already It, "I" am just.... ... Selling Water by the River ( : Somebody made a Video Channel on the last step: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9vlZGtpdFIts8GOG5vu27g Bassui on the never stopping short with small Enlighenments: "I have seen that the foundation of the universe is Voidness; still what is this something within me which can see and hear?” he desperately asked himself anew. In spite of every effort, he could not rid himself of this obsessive doubt." [Emptiness and Nondual stage, separate self still intact, on a very rudamentary level, just a void separate self watching Infinity. "The lesser masters from whom Bassui had sought guidance had all sanctioned his enlightenment [see above, Awakenings], but Koho, sensing Bassui’s keen, sensitive mind and the strength and purity of his yearning for truth, did not give him his stamp of approval but merely invited him to remain" "At work, at rest, never stop trying to realize who it is that hears. Even though your questioning penetrates the unconscious, you won’t find the one who hears, and all your efforts will come to naught. Yet sounds can be heard, so question yourself to an even profounder level. At last every vestige of self-awareness [remnants of Empty Witness] will disappear and you will feel like a cloudless sky. Within yourself you will find no “I,” nor will you discover anyone who hears. This Mind is like the void, yet it hasn’t a single spot that can be called empty [no location, unilocal, perception perceiving themselves]. Do not mistake this state for Self-realization, but continue to ask yourself even more intensely, “Now who is it that hears?” If you bore and bore into this question, oblivious to anything else, even this feeling of voidness will vanish and you won’t be aware of anything—total darkness will prevail. [Don’t stop here, but] keep asking with all your strength, “What is it that hears?” Only when you have completely exhausted the questioning [having become fully empty, even of identity with manifested Consciouss, "God-Mind"] will the question burst; now you will feel like someone who has come back from the dead. This is true realization. You will see the Buddhas of all the universes face-to-face and the Dharma Ancestors past and present." "With the passage of time one’s thoughts are stilled and one experiences a void like that of a cloudless sky [Emptiness, Nonduality]. You must not, however, confuse this with enlightenment. Putting aside logic and reason, question yourself even more intensely in this wise: “Mind is formless, and so right now am I. What, then, is hearing?” Only after your search has permeated every pore and fiber of your being [having become totally empty] will the empty-space suddenly break asunder and your Face before your parents were born appear. You will feel like one who abruptly awakens from a dream." from Kapleau, The Three Pillars of Zen PS: I didn't create that Video. But it is beautiful.

Enlightenment is in most definitions defined as seeing that all appearances arise within the infinite you, being imagined by you, through you. And you are that, the Totality, Tat Tvam Asi. That includes all arisings, including the feelings and thoughts of the separate self, including memories. And of course the boat (all spiritual teachings) that carried you to the other shore, that you cast into the stream after crossing over to the other shore. They also arise just in you. Reality/True You includes every possible arising or imagined form, n+1. I also agree that Just experiencing or becoming Emptiness or Nothingness is not sufficient. You can experience the Godhead as state (Cessation, Nirvikalpha), and even experience yourself as Nothingness in a nondual infinite state, and it is not yet IT. Why? Because there are still a very very subtle feeling of Inviduality, of being separate, that will continue appearing in you. Even if it is just a very subtle "Nothing" watching the infinite. And how to get the Realization into daily life? Like, seeing the whole infinite appearance bubble arise within you in daily life? Learn to get proficient in spotting this last feeling of indviduality/separateness, and cutting them off before they fully rise up and elaborate, put You under their spell, before they get believed. A High-Speed-Search-Task for the Emptiness of the separate self arisings, as Daniel Brown once called it. And when you are fully empty (your personality is not gone, it continues working more efficient and better than ever, its just blows like the wind through the Totality that you are then), you can sustain that. Nondual, infinite, blissfull, the not so separate self or character moving in you like the wind. You realize that you have always been that Totality, before with the illusion of something separate appearing in it. @Leo Gura : I am (at least in my understanding of your writings, especially the one above) very close with my definitions of these terms to your definition on God-Realization/Enlightenment. I understand why you put so much emphasize on understanding the points you mention above, because its sooo easy to stop short, and various teachers like Jac O'Keffee or Wolinsky, Massaro (I know...), Wilber, Davidya, even Bassui a few hundred years ago.... also emphasize that a lot: Further, never stop short. It is so easy to fool yourself, and stop at Nonduality with a separate self still left and not fully seen through. I also like your wording of imagination more than the classic buddhist wording of "empty or empty of inherent existence", the question of BiploarGrowth. ("Could you define imaginary as “something not having inherent existence and being completely reliant on Consciousness/You to appear”?). So, at least in my humble opinion, the more or less only point where I put a different emphasis than you (yet, which at least in my experience, has a drastic impact wether you can carry this realization into daily life), is: This last quantum of getting totally empty of the last Individuality/separateness-arising-items arising in you, not a lense seen through, but a lense fully transcended moving in you and not seen through, which enables you to sustain this Realization sobre without pychedelics, and to get it totally unbiased of any last separate self interpreting lense. @Leo GuraLeo, just one question: Where is your line of kicking out people? I understand that probably most people who write in a not so polite way or are making fun, or being ironic/sarcastic in a not so light way, or are being arrogant, are probably not writing that while being aware of their True Nature (at least while writing it, yet some may be), but are a bit annoyed by some manifestation in their visual field (which in that case happen to be your writings). So, for them, a little challenge: How about writing it being aware that Leo is actually fundamentally not different from you, and writing your message in a loving way, even if you feel the urgency of critique? Writing while not rejecting parts of your visual field (in that case, Leos message)? I respect you and your work (which is marvelous in so many areas). I just have a different perspective on the utmost importance of getting fully empty, seeing the separate self arisings in real time fast enough and not getting hypnotized, and to be able to carry that realization described above into everyday life, and the ensuing happiness/bliss that it brings. Utmost at least in my experience, because it made the difference on so much more happiness and bliss that has come into my life so that I can not honestly write about this topic without mentioning the experience I had with this aspect. Let's respectfully agree to disagree on that one point? Namaste and all the best! Water by the River

I'm not trying to be awake, and what i'm saying is that everything within life is an illusion full of lies. Because of low consciousness and limits people actually enjoy this state of being, that is why ignorance is bliss. There you know everything, can do everything, but you still suffer but alone. As long as you're conscious being you won't stop experiencing suffering. The others that say or point otherwise is god taking care of you, their response is mechanical/impulsive and that is because they don't know any better.

You know what I'm going to say, right? Sounds pretty New Age to me: minimal prescriptions, minimal theory, minimal tradition, sort of vague; just pure seeking of the sacred, stripped to its bare bones. "Just follow your bliss, man" I don't think we're getting anywhere. We disagree on what spirituality and religion is, we disagree on the degree to which belief is inherent to either spirituality or religion, etc. It's hard to get off the ground without settling those.

Something very important i want to add, most of you if not all here on the forum think there is some kind of awakening or enlightenment that you can do incredible things like an ascended master. It's not possible, unless your dream is setup like that. Your life is already set up, the only way to be some form of god inside a dream like this is to literally setup your next life/dream that you want as the "chooser" but it's not so fun experience. I repeat YOU choose your dream and experiences, the more god limits itself the better it is. God would rather be a Neanderthal then an ascended master in a dream. This is probably the biggest awakening i was really conscious about. THE ONLY POWER YOU TRULY HAVE IN YOUR OWN DREAM, IS THE POSSEBILITY TO LEAVE IT. BUT YOU DON'T TRULY WANT THAT, AND YOU KNOW THAT AT YOUR CORE AS GOD. I wanted to really leave my life and start a new dream, but when i was there and everything got deconstructed i realized why i can't leave and why it's better to be this way. I also knew that because god is taking care of me at all times, he would limit my consciousness again after coming back and i was really happy about that because by limiting my consciousness i would experience ignorance and ignorance is bliss.

Wouldn't it be like a solipsistic resonance when we completely detach from something and compound on nihilistic virtues and would this look like another illusion or game we're playing? What's the end game in the pursuit of such bliss?

Selling Water by the River, todays water batch: Difference between Awakening and Enlightenment: Enlightenment: You had to cut/transcend every subtle separate sense feelings/thought (very subtle ones, very hard to spot). Then you are fully empty, which is your True Condition. Then, all separate self arisings arise in you, and move in you, but you are not only them. They move in you like the wind. The wind is also you, but you are not only the wind. They are fully transcended. Why is that necessary to fully understand Absolute Reality, or what You are? What you are can be fully empty. Like, nothing at all. Total Nothingness. When no arising is there, Absolute Reality/You is unaware of itself. But with the potential for sentience if something appears (for example, check Hawal and Massaro books). You are still there when all arisings disappear (Nirvikalpha, Deep Sleep, your face before your parents were born). And if you want to understand what You are while forms still arising (like, in normal life), there can not be a subtle separate self/anything cutting the one infinite Unity of the Real You/Reality into a felt subject (Awareness) watching Infinity, even if it feels nondual or infinite. It has to become perceptions perceiving themself, no separate self anywhere to be found. You can not have separate Awareness separated from the field. The infinite field watches itself, literally does. And your body-mind moves in the Totality that you are. The thoughts and feelings of the former separate you are moving in in the True You like the wind. The bliss/love you generate in that state without needing anything external gives you autonomy from chasing externally generated bliss via experiences. It gives you total absolute freedom and love (Bassui below: You will be entirely free) If you understand that for your perspective, you understand that this holds for the structure of all perspectives/beings, for the whole Absolute Reality. Why? Because all perspectives are only form arising in the Absolute, any boundary from one perspective/being to another is either forgetting or form arising in Awareness, seeing itself. The advantage if do that sobre: You need a high developed state of nonduality/nonlocality/centerlessness/mere appearance of the visual bubble. You get that via meditation done correctly. Which doesn't need to be unpleasant or hard (although it normally takes quite a while), at least if done correctly, see for example Pointing out the Great Way, Daniel Brown. If you feel centered in your head, and the outside world appears as solid, you can not understand the Nature of Reality, impossible. So this state is necessary for Enlightenment. But not sufficient. From that stage (Yoga of One Taste) for example, you can continue to dissolve the last remnants of the separate self (for example, Nonmeditation Yoga). And then you can have Insight into what you are. You will not miss that, its definitive. Also, and most important, you got a built in safety check/quality control: You will not cross over to full Enlightenment without fully transcending any and all separate self arising coming up (and the visual field being Nonduality, centerless and infinite). You can't fool yourself here. And you will understand when you are there. Why it is absolute. Awakening: The energetic state of Nonduality/Unity/Infinity with some remnants of separate self still not fully transcended, you can also get by Psychedelics. Which of course is useful in order to have an idea of the goal, a feedback loop to build this nonduality-state via meditation, on and off the pillow. But here, you get the nonduality/mere appearance with subtle remnants of the separate self still intact. You don't have the build in quality/safety mechanism of classic Full Enlightenment. So it is very easy to confuse these experiences for the final Realization of what you are. Everyone having experienced it claims this on the difference between Awakening and Enlightenment, see for example Frank Yang/Ralston/Wilber/Jac O'Keffee/Steven Wolinsky/... (anticipating certain feedback: "they are not awake, but enlightened". Well, with the definitions above I could agree). Enlightenment is in a different ballpark. And you can't imagine it without it fully happening. So it is not some mild form of "God-Realization", or Nothing. It is something of a different category. It is, to quote Ralston, fully understanding what You are and what Reality is. Without any separate self filters, however subtle, still active. So what happens if you value Psychedelic Awakenings or Understandings higher than fully being and realizing what you are? You guessed it: Reality doesn't let you off the hook, you still have psychological suffering. The separate self arisings cut you off from the full flow of love of your True Being for itself. So you need experiences to get this love flowing. For example the love you feel when understanding-experiences of the exquisite beauty of the design of Reality/Dimensions happen. Is anything with exploring Alien-Godminds wrong? For sure not, this understanding is probably among the most beautiful experiences you can have. I just feel it becomes problematic if you value getting the love the unenlightened separate self needs from these experiences, and valueing these understandings of Alien-Godminds higher than classic Enlighenment and fully understanding your True Nature, and resting in it. Why not pursue and value BOTH endevours on an at least equal basis? Not downplaying Enlightenment as somehow not on the same level or lower than any other insight into the appearance or form side of Reality (which is infinite). If what is stated above is correct, with one path one is lead to salvation (Enlightenment), and with the other path (Understanding/Awakenings), well.... best regards from Maya, but you get a medal from her with distinction for playing her game on the highest level possible. For the readers: You will probably not achieve higher level of bliss and love than your teacher using his teachings. And how these levels will develop: Well, we are in the prime seats here to see how it will continue. I don' think I have a high chance of convincing Leo. So that means that the job of convincing to develop via suffering (or hopefully only not being as happy and loving than one could be) stays where it always has been, and ever will be: Maya, CEO of Samsara. All the best, enjoy the ride and the show, and Namaste! Selling Bullshit Water by the River. PS: There is already water by the River, so I am too lazy to carry Bulls**t there. ( : Bassui: “What is it that hears?” Only when you have completely exhausted the questioning will the question burst; now you will feel like someone who has come back from the dead. This is true realization. You will see the Buddhas of all the universes face-to-face and the Dharma Ancestors past and present. ... If you push forward with your last ounce of strength at the very point where the path of your thinking has been blocked, and then, completely stymied, leap with hands high in the air into the tremendous abyss of fire confronting you—into the ever-burning flame of your own primordial nature—all ego-consciousness, all delusive feelings and thoughts and perceptions will perish with your ego-root and the true source of your Self-nature will appear. You will feel resurrected, all sickness having completely vanished, and will experience genuine peace and joy. You will be entirely free. For the first time you will realize that walking on water is like walking on ground and walking on ground like walking on water; that all day long there is speaking, yet no word is ever spoken; that throughout the day there is walking, yet no step is ever taken; that while the clouds are rising over the southern mountains their rain is falling over the northern range; that when the lecture gong is struck in China the lecture begins in Korea; that sitting alone in a ten-foot-square room you meet all the Buddhas of the ten quarters; that without seeing a word you read the more than seven thousand volumes of the sutras; that though you acquire all the merits and virtues of good actions, yet in fact there are none.

This is the start of my new journal wow it’s been years since I’ve been here so much life experience from every single one of you. barely 19 years old, currently in the military. i just wanted a place to sort my thoughts, I don’t plan to really dig deep into this forum. i just wanted to start taking consciousness more seriously. im so unconscious fuck. i know how it feels to be more conscious then I am now. It’s kinda weird how I can feel and experience my state of consciousness I’d say in the past I was pretty conscious. Now I’m much more stable, have a solid life, easily interact with people irl. Basically a normal life. Took years to build myself back up. my story: I used to meditate every day. Sometimes 20 minutes other times hours. Sometimes just used to sit there for hours. I still had bullshit in between but I was very focused on consciousness. Used to have awakenings of surrender and love if you know you know. When I was 14-16 just something in me snapped cause at that time I was still living with my parents. How could I have developed myself in that aspect of life but not progressed in reality. So I put a hold on meditation. On everything. And was like fuck it I’ll build back up the life I surrendered. (This itself was a HUGE realization to me) Joining the army was perfect cause it gave me no time to meditate, busy all day, made friends, learned how to interact with people my age again. For the first few months it was so foreign to talk to people my age. Just completely different wavelengths. ? “that’s hella cute” all the slang they use. Reintegrating into society. pretty much hermited myself all of Highschool took months off just to sit and meditate. Bro was such an amazing experience in my life. Had such realizations not only into my awareness and consciousness but also into energy, spirits etc. had crazy experiences with everyone I was meeting online but it just wasn’t what I was looking for. Gave up the life of love for REALITY. Cause that’s why. Itself is the reason. REALITY. i can’t fully understand at the moment cause I’m not at the level to see it. i just know that leaving “this” behind completely is easy(edit: as well as the hardest thing. We could say I never completely gave up on this because I didn’t just pack my stuff and leave forever pursuing consciousness. So I don’t have really any place to say this but I was on the boarderline) compared to living a life and retaining that conscious state. It’s easy to meditate all day, not pay rent etc. you know. But that’s not life. Life isn’t meant to be easy. Challenge myself to improve. gave up my reality for love —-> then gave up the bliss and awareness of reality again. I feel like I’m still missing a piece of it all but that’s it in a nutshell. Now I want to take on both sides. sacrifice the bullshit and distractions of my life for spirit, god, christ, love while maintaining this life I have. Blossem into whatever I’m meant to be

Dear Leo, let's conclude it for today, it is late over here. I let the videos of the poems of Meister Eckhart, which I posted in my last post interestingly a minute before your reply, speak for itself. Every reader can then feel to which perspective their hearts and souls resonate. I believe that in your perspective you feel that way, and perceive that us true. May all beings find the most direct way to resting in their true nature and their own innate bliss. Namaste!

Sorry, my paragraph you refer to (below) was not intended for you. It was a general statement concerning the goal of maximum exploration/understanding of form/manifestation mechanism: "And my only humble suggestion is: Before you go running exploring that which you can never finish [understanding as much as possible of an infinite reality] in this lifetime: Why not look deeply into the abyss of your own true being (which contains all form, but never is form, getting to the point where there is so much no center that all perceptions see themselves), learn to keep that ongoing in daily life, and be happy and in bliss, and go exploring these Alien-Minds then?" Sorry that this wasn't clear. And great that you are generally very happy!

I agree. Ego-Loss and Presence is not final Enlightenment. Ego-Loss and Presence would be Roger Thisdells stage 3 and 4, a more or less transparent Witness, and that can include Nonduality and Unity-states. Not his stage 5, True No-Self, or final Enlightenment. His videos are on Youtube, see my previous posts. At the end, when only the individuality-feeling of the Transparent Witness remains, and even that is seen as moving in the True You or Reality/Infinite Consciousness itself, among with all other mere appearances of the Visual Field, then there is insight into the Ultimate Nature of Reality and your True Self. Not before. That is called Great Enlightenment in Zen, or Basis Enlightenment in Mahamudra. All small Enlightenments before are called Kenshos or smaller Satoris (Nonduality, Unity, certain Ego-losses). But the final and total drop of the separate self arisings is the Great Enlightenment, the insight into the nature of Existence/Reality and the real You. Version 1, Peter Ralston: Peter Ralston: "So you know enlightenment is you yourself becoming conscious of what's true, directly conscious of what's true, like what you are or what existence is, no more than that". Version 2, The Supreme Source, God-Realization Dzogchen-style: My intuition is with the importance you lay on God-Realization: Never stop short - on which I fully agree. Thats the worst mistake one can do - stop short in understand what You and Ultimate Reality really are. I really agree on that. Apparently, understanding that everything is just appearance arising in the True You, Reality itself, and what that True You and Ultimate Reality are, is paramount. But why aim for understanding all of the endless/infinite perspectives (Alien Minds, whatever...) that work together to give rise to all these appearances, when by definition its infinite and endless (n+1) and never can be fully understood, and call that God-Realization, and give it a higher meaning than the Full Classic Enlightenment? Isn't Ultimate Reality the final Godhead? Infinite other dimensions run and understood by other Alien Godminds? Aren't these other realms not just... more appearances arising in Ultimate Reality? Why place more importance on these insights, which by definition can never be complete, than on the understanding of the "wetness" of each wave of appearances in the ocean of Ultimate Reality? Which by the way, is the definition of final Enlightenment (or Great Enlightenment in Zen, see Kapleau three pillars. Not the preliminary ones, Kenshos and smaller Satoris, which show Nonduality and various other facets). But the real thing, like Ralston said, what Reality is and what You really are. Why not get the wetness and bliss of the ocean in your everyday-life, and then go exploring the Alien Godminds? Or do you aim for that with exploring the Alien Godminds? As always: Review the perspectives, and if one doesn't like the kind of water that is being sold here at the river, look deeply into yourself if you are not already the river... ( : He who knows the well doesn't drink out of the jar. And doesn't angry on other jars. PS: And besides, in exploring these Alien-Godminds, I think you are doing an awesome pioneering job, stuff for the history books in the future. What would really delight me is if you find within yourself a place living from which brings you a radiating bliss and love in your everyday life 24/7, and freedom from psychological suffering. All the best and bon voyage!

9 hours ago, Water by the River said: Whatever the meaning or Referent of this concept/word is , it would just be more form. Even if its a very subtle appearance or formless understanding. Just more arisings. @Aurum: Luckily, we did get a timely answer: Alien FORMS of consciousness and intelligence. I fully believe Leo that he experienced this, and its fascinating stuff. For sure, there are those perspectives/intelligences creating and keeping the game running. That is the stuff that humanity will probably focus on the explore in the next 1000 years and beyond, if not a mishappen asteroid or so comes along.... So Leo is a pioneer of the highest degree, for sure. And maybe after 1000 years we will play the UFOs on some other planets or dimensions, or create our own little dimensions or whatever, and appear as these Alien intelligences. Who knows? But lets say reality is really infinite (as pretty much everbody and most spiritual texts agree on): Its infinite turtles all the way up. N+1. You never reach the top. If you understood that Alien Universe-Creator/Manager, you can go understood his "boss". And the next. And so on, forever. So form doesn't stop. And the content of every perspective, of the alien forms of consciousness and intelligence, are by definition form. It is all arisings. So it is an infinity "upwards", see Leos Video on Infinity Part 2, Cantors Set Theory. It will never stop. No reason not to explore, if you have fun doing it. I am curious for which shows are ongoing, for sure.The one Absolute Subject watching all of that, Reality itself or You, doesnt have form. It would limit Reality. This realization is the core of classic Enlightenment. And knowing the Absolute of Reality is knowing the infinite Abyss of Consciousness: It is not form. "It" is the only "thing" (I know...) that is not form, neither subtle or not. It is the Real You (not the separate self arisings in you). It is Reality itself. If no arisings happen in your perspective it is Nirvikalpa or Deep Sleep, if arisings happen in you perspective, it's perceptions perceiving themselves. With or without a separate self-arising going on. That is by the way the structure of all perspectives/beings being imagined by Ultimate Reality. Any Identity/I-feeling-arising is form. Any understanding is an appearance. Why? Its not permanent. It comes and goes. Its not you. It arises in you. And my only humble suggestion is: Before you go running exploring that which you can never finish in this lifetime: Why not look deeply into the abyss of your own true being (which contains all form, but never is form, getting to the point where there is so much no center that all perceptions see themselves), learn to keep that ongoing in daily life, and be happy and in bliss, and go exploring these Alien-Minds then? Why go exploring on an endless journey with so much urgency while still not being happy, because a separate self still creates dis-satisfaction (which by definition it does to keep the game/illusion going). How would you call a game that keeps you dissatiesfied searching for the highest form of Alien Intelligence, when there are an infinite number of them out there, chasing your own tail? What is it that keeps the whole illusion running? The separate self at its core has to generate dis-satisfation, to keep some activity going on. Not that it winds down and one actually looks into the absolutely formless abyss of ones own Being and Reality, sees the separate self building blocks arising as those elements that cause the dis-satisfaction in the first place, and lives happily ever after. Would be bad for the show if everybody did that. Luckily, that risk will not arise soon. Especially since we see here a new and creative form of that activity of chasing your own tail, so to say the highest evolved version of that until now, in some sense really the cutting edge of that aspect of humanity. And please nobody say that I am saying it is not worth exploring the Alien Superminds. That is part of the fascinating show. My only suggestion would be to do it in a way that makes you honestly happy and loving. And for that I would recommend you buying a bottle of water at the river saying: "Look deeply into your being, and check what reality is, what you are, if that makes you happy and loving or not, and check if its maybe already water. From the river". As always: Review the perspectives and draw your own conclusion on what resonates within you. And think about if you want to be happy/loving while resting in your True Nature and then go exploring the Alien-Whatevers of the Multiverse, or go on that trip with a separate self very well intact, causing regularly returning dissatisfaction & unloving, and having from time to time some great highs in merging and understanding those Alien-Godminds.

Sat (Being) Chit ( Consciousness) Ananda (Bliss) But You can always invent a wheel once again… All this thread is good example of bipolar lunacy. More Being less thinking I advise

It's -1000 and +1000 as a target from any state, start end or now, ends in zero for the "world" or "story" but actually is +2000 for you. -1000 is how good you are at destroying and +1000 is how good at creating, so you can still have all kinds of complicated forms/math since you can reach any number from any number as long as you have the ability/power/knowledge/whatever fantasy we need. so we have 100x10 or 999+1 or 999-2001 to reach the same equilibrium with different expressions. Would be pretty cool wouldn't it? It implies you can have any heroic like story or villain but without actually suffering, it accepts the 0 and the infinite, the only delusion is accepting suffering and denying pleasure, the reason people get confused is because they don't apply them simultaneously to any given state and you don't have to but for the purposes of actually understanding you at least need the memory that ACTUALLY, simple pleasures lead to infinite bliss and the total removal of suffering and so does the direct seeking out of the destruction of suffering leads to infinite bliss too, we can do both at the same time and as a pendulum. We are just totally forgeting that TOTAL SELFISH destruction of suffering leads to infinite love anyway and then you accidentally reach total love from having some skill in destruction you believe it was all worth the suffering or that love IS suffering but actually this is what "they" are trying t[eiopqrtuwy

Thats true. Although it can take quite a while without psychedelics. That stage was variously called the One Taste (Yoga of One Taste), Nonduality, Big-Self, Infinity, Mere Appearance, Unity, God-Self, Big Mind, .... But who or what is aware of that? At that stage, there is still some nebulous murky identity arising, watching or being aware of this Nondual Big Self. Even in this Nonduality/Unity, there are the last remnants of the separate self (very subtle, hard to spot, takes some training) still arising. Roger Thisdell has some nice youtube-videos on that: Not Self - A Stage Theory of Enlightenment (4/5) In Roger Thisdells System, it is his stage 4, which is beyond his stage 3 Big Mind, which is already Nondual (One Taste/Yoga of One Taste, Nonduality, Big-Self, Infinity, Mere Appearance, Unity, God-Self, Big Mind) with a already much reduced separate self. Stage 3 can have full Nonduality/Unity, with the separate self much more intact than the pretty empty Not-Self of stage 4 (which has just Individuality or a murky Subject-Object left). It is Ken Wilber Empty Witness, Daniel Brown "Individuality", Jac O'Keeffe "Identity", Greg Goode transparent witness vs. opaque witness, Nisargadattas and Stephen Wolinskis Brahman vs. Parabrahman). One can find this stage in every system: Infinite Nonduality/Unity with the remnants of a separate self, some kind of identity or indviduality/separateness. And the last stage in his system, stage 5, Enlightenment: True No Self and No Centre - A Stage Theory of Enlightenment (5/5) And then perceiving this boundless infinite field of mere appearance of your Awareness Bubble/reality/infinity, and then dissolving the last arising remnants of any remaining subject arisings perceiving this nondual infinity. These can be very subtle, "no-self"-arisings perceiving infinity, but still some subjectivity/individuality sensation/arisings remaining. But these arisings of any form of subject/individuality can still be seen as objects hovering in the infinite field/Suchness that you are. Don't worry, your True Self will still be there afterwards if these separate-self remnants dissolve. Then one can understand why it is so often said there is nothing beyond this stage. Because it is you, it is Existence itself, see the Ralston Video. To learn these last tricks of the separate self, you need enough time in these states, and the right techniques, (for a suggestion see below, no artifical activity), and then the One Hand Claps. How to do that? I like the Nonmeditation-Yoga in Daniels Browns "Pointing out the Great Way". Learn to automize the meditation (on the pillow and in daily life) of cutting off these separate self arisings, so that no more of what he calls "artifical activity" is necessary, because any effort at that stage done by a doer/separate self arising prevents the realization. It has to become fully automized. Definition of concepts Awakening, Enlightenment and No-Self: I believe we got a lot of different meanings of what we mean by No-Self, and Awakening and Enlightenment. Enlightenment: If Enlightenment is knowing what you are and what existence is, being able to stay in that knowledge in everday life: That has an endpoint: You know what you are and what existence is. And that brings permanent happiness and bliss. Of course you can suffer when you have bodily pain, but psychological suffering is gone. Resting in your True Nature generates bliss by itself. And that is the same as True No-Self, which is the same as True Self, because it is Reality and the core or Buddha-Nature of every being. But here, words loose their meaning, because reality has no opposite. No-Self: The real No-Self is not just giving up the Personality/Ego and going to the Witness (opaque or transparent, which can even be Nondual Kosmic Consciousness/Nature Mysticism style) with something still watching. That something can be mostly empty, just a transparent witness, but it still has the last duality of some kind of individuality. Problem is: This is something one only fully understands when these remnant-arisings of individuality are gone. If there is no separate self having individuality, the universe is watching itself, appearances watching themselves, thoughts are arising in immense vastness as objects, floating through you like the sound of a bird, and the feeling of being something separate is also seen as object in immense vastness. See Roger Thisdell stage 5. Awakening: If one defines Awakening as knowing all the manifestation mechanisms in this or any other dimension, then one perspective/being can be more awake than another. But: Infinity means there are endless dimensions. And a few thoughts on Genetics and Meditation: I believe that using the right meditation techniques at the right stage are essential, more so than genetics. Good techniques change along the path, check for example Pointing Out the Great Way by Daniel Brown. Classic Self-Help-Mindset: I would never let my success and drive be limited by such a limiting belief genetics <-> meditation. Do the the best with the Karma you have. Give it a try! The biggest heros are those who go furthest with the worst genetics/Karma. How do you know if you are limited, if you dont't fully try? Maybe you are not? And of course use Psychedelics on top, why not? If anybody is annoyed by this attempt to Sell water by the River: Please review the perspectives, do your own experiments, and review the outcome. My suggestion would be in judging if any insight is valueable, worthwhile, and higher: Does it bring the understanding of what you are and what reality is, beyond any doubt? Does it bring permanent satisfaction and bliss? And don't worry: Its already what you are, covered by lots of mistaken identities, and it is the only thing you can not loose. The only stuff you can loose are arising appearances, confusions/ignorance of what you think you are. By the way, does anybody read that until the end here?

I totally agree. Leo seems to be obsessed with egg theory / radical implications of oneness, and thinks he'll live the life of Hitler etc. He doesn't realize that Hitler is 100% imaginary! A fictitious character created as a backstory for WW2 (which also NEVER happened) and was all created so our lives feel relatively 'lucky' in comparison. It's a trick of relativity! It's genius! God then creates for itself a comfy existence, with just enough suffering that it can forget it's existential infinite aloneness and be with 'others' in a seemingly temporary meat suit for a while. And leave breadcrumbs for itself to awaken because awakening is the pinnacle of life, to find out it's the neverending story, it's too good to be true. God is so intelligent that it only incarnates into balanced lives. God knows it's a solipsist and wishes to forget that for a while, and does so successfully, until it awakens and discovers it's predicament. Because God doesn't want to be omniscient, God wants to be ignorant. Only in ignorance can God really love another. Ignorance is bliss.

God creates the experiences AND creates the emotions associated. That means everything is simulated by God. God could simulate good emotions to bad situations if it wanted to. God knows this as well. God knows deep down there's nothing to be learnt or understood. I remember when all my Grandparents died, I felt nothing honestly, so what did God really learn? The truth is, God creates for itself a comfy existence, with just enough suffering that it can forget it's existential infinite aloneness and be with 'others' in a seemingly temporary meat suit for a while. And leave breadcrumbs for itself to awaken because awakening is the pinnacle of life, to find out it's the neverending story, it's too good to be true. This is what Leo fails to understand. Leo has an egg theory fetish. God, however is so intelligent that it incarnates into perfect human lives. God knows it's a solipsist and wishes to forget that for a while, and does so successfully, until it awakens and discovers it's predicament. Because God doesn't want to be omniscient, God wants to be ignorant. Only in ignorance can God really love another. Ignorance is bliss.

To me the power of affecting the level of my own happiness keeps increasing year after year, not the level of happiness per se. So the older I get, the easier it seems for me to turn my life into either bliss or shit.