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Some things have to be clear to you - you are not your thoughts, you can never be the monkey mind. This is classic identification with thinking!! I prescribe you the Eckhart Tolle pill. If you can be aware of it, it's not you. Neti neti. That simple.

I'm quoting my own post to clarify what I mean, hopefully, lol Everything is illusion/dreaming, except what you really are, awareness/presence. To recognize what you are, you need to negate (neti-neti) or see through, what you've thought was real (phenomena), then you realize you've always been it, awareness. But, the dreaming/illusion/phenomena, although seen through, "persists", meaning, thoughts/feelings/sensations/sucky situations/illness, etc ....continue to be experienced (by no-one...lol). In that sense, there is no getting out of the dream/illusion, although you know it's not real. Peace.

Godammit... I was literally mulling over making a post with this exact title, not even an hour or two ago (although you have put it better than I would have) ... Was just now googling this phrase to get my thoughts together and first thing on google is this post, made 54 minutes ago. Seriously, what the hell? Oh well, either way it got me interested in finally starting neti neti so mission accomplished, I guess. Geez, and I thought I was going to be so original and ask "what" am i, instead of "who" am i? I'm telling you this is crazy.... I'm in a freaking dream....

I have almost been there, countless people have experienced it, it's more probable that it is real. But of course how it is experienced is far different from the concept of it. It can only be truly understood after experiencing it. But the ''i'' is not needed, existence can exist without the notion of an ''i'', it's just superficial language game. From my experiences, what absolute nothingness means is that the true nature of yourself is impersonal nothingness or emptiness, so much that you actually do not exist, you drown in the emptiness until you disappear then you become everything that is, at the end you stop identifying yourself as everything. Now only what IS is, alone. You can trigger this by being the observer yes, you can also trigger it with other methods, like introspection, self-inquiry, neti-neti method, etc.

You've totally missed the point of self inquiry. The whole point of self inquiry is to keep you looking/observing until you break free from delusion. What you call 'me', 'reality' are layers of stories glued together. They can only sustain if they are unexamined/unobserved. The moment you look, shit start disappearing like empty air. Doesn't that ring some bell? maybe you and your whole life stories and constructs are just a house of cards. What is the purpose of Self-inquiry? Its to deconstruct yourself, your beliefs about being a human/alien/nothingness and your world. Observation is the only direct spiritual practice and self inquiry is just a technique to keep you oriented and focused. There are other techniques like spiritual autolysis, mindfulness with labeling, Guided Neti Neti, staying with the I AM etc which basically facilitates the same observation with slightly different spin. Until?? Until all that can be deconstructed is deconstructed. And what is left? That which is Real. The unreal never existed and the real can't be destroyed.

Okay so I've been meditating for a couple years but I didn't really know what I was doing until a couple weeks ago. And WOWWWW. Seriously how do most people not know about this? My first glimpse of enlightenment was about a month ago and I was doing neti neti whilst high on weed and man that was some crazy shit. It felt really alien. I suddenly realised that there is no experiencer and all there is and ever was is experience. And yeah this felt really really alien. I felt like I just discovered orgasms for the first time hahaha. And now when I meditate I gradually gain more minfulness and thoughts start to fade into noise and everything becomes 'noise' ( neutral and there isn't anything that is more significant than any other thing ) and once that happens I feel like a key has just been taken out of the lock. And I'm not attached to my thoughts, I'm not convinced that I am my thoughts, or my sight or my senstations anymore and not in that problem solving mode. It's fucking beautiful and so alien at the same time. I often feel a wave of energy run through me as this happens like a vibration. that just coarses through me and I'm suddenly non attached to anything. Then this fades and I'm attached to thoughts again. And then I notice I'm talking to myself in my head about how enlightened I am lmao. And then I realise this is ego. And I'm back in square one. And I cannot go more than 20 minutes without an uncontrollable urge to move and open my eyes. Also when I opened my eyes after my most recent meditation everything was as if I have never seen it before, like I had new eyes or I was just born. and it gradually fades into my regular everyday state. I also experience mild closed eye visuals whilst this is happening and a ringing in my ears. But for the most part it feels like I've fallen out of my thoughts. Anyone else experience anythign similar? Was that falling out of thoughts the void? And if so how can I make it last and not attach myself to the ego? EDIT: Also I'm noticing how because I'm not in that state anymore I cannot really grasp what that's like. Is this falling out of thoughts thing of any significance? Am I going crazy? Is this just the ego playing tricks and deluding itself into believing it's enlightened? EDIT: I also feel weird presences or like someone is watching me whilst meditating but that fades too as i focus on my breath. I also see different colours as this state comes on and it looks a lot like the northern lights. EDIT: I know this is the third edit lmao but I'm also noticing how whenever this state comes on it's like my mind doesnt want me to see it. it diverts my attention. This is some freaky shit maaaan And I get it now how when leo said its like a scratch on the top of your head turns into finding a zip then slowly unzipping yourself from yourself. EDIT: I don't know if this is psychosis coming on or if it was enlightenment. It feels pretty good. EDIT: My hands feel like just hands and not like i own them ownership is a delusion. What the fuck is happening? Am I delusional and just imagining I'm enlightened? if anyone knows then pls tell me what is happening. Should I ask a psychiatrist if I'm sane? EDIT: So my regular state where im attached to thoughts is literally insane because everything is fundamentally neutral and just noise and believing that it's something more is craziness. And that means everyone else is insane too. But I know what sane is now. what the fuck EDIT: How do I know this is not my mind playing tricks on me making me believe I've experienced enlightenment? When really I'm just imagining it EDIT: I feel pretty regular now and I cannot really understand it unless im in that state. I cannot unsee this though :DD i feel exactly the same as before I meditated today but really really aware EDIT: I have no idea what the fuck i was talking about anymore lmao wtf EDIT: Now I see that attachments are like lenses on the truth ( pure conciousness or neutrality as i said ) But I'm not in that state anymore I just get it EDIT: Okay so it's the next day and I feel basically the same as before. I think that I try to rationalise what is happening and I begin to believe that my rationalisations are enlightenment. I don't look at it as crazy anymore. more like really sane.

@Applejuice You seem overexcited. First of all, stop chasing states. Awakening is not a state or any kind of form including the feeling of bliss (however, it could be accompanied by it). Based on what you are saying I would say you are on the first stage. Neti Neti process is essential starting point and maybe you already learned what you are not from it. However, this is not even a halfway. Now you need to become conscious who you are! And noone can tell you how long may it take. You will need lots of self inquiry and presence as awareness. You need to become conscious of your unlimited nature. You will need to empty your mind. You are trying to achieve smth while meditating instead of being still. Work on that...

Ok, that God that you explained doesn't exist. But the true God exist. The problem is that the true God cannot be conceptualized. So anything we say won't be IT. Neti, neti....

Something happened at work yesterday, and I have gotten extreme feeling of envy and jealousy. So much that I couldn't sleep even after meditation. I'm trying neti neti techniques, as well as breathing into it. I'm learning a lot about how much more work the ego needs. Now, all the physical emotions are concentrated in my chest. I cannot breath into it anymore because of the amount of pressure. Do you know a way for me to release the tension? It's like a huge blockage of chakara. Thank you

@Dan Arnautu Definitely Neti Neti inquiry...

@Maycol That requires a very deep enlightenment. Yes, Neti Neti, or self-inquiry, or yoga, or meditation, or 5-MeO-DMT. 5-MeO-DMT is the most direct and surest way. You will experience pure, total nonduality the likes of which cannot be imagined or spoken of. Experiencing total nonduality is not easy. It usually takes enormous work. It took me about 4 years of hard work every day, and the only reason I succeeded was thanks to 5-MeO. Most people here pursuing enlightenment will never realize total nonduality in their lives. It's too deep. But with 5-MeO it becomes very doable. LSD is the next best thing, since 5-MeO is hard to find. But LSD will still not take you deep enough. But it will still give you a good glimpse and knock your socks off if you use it properly.

Dear @Leo Gura, How to realize the duality is oneness without any doubt, instead of just an intellectual understanding? Is it still using the Neti Neti process? I've read several books on the purchased book lists, I feel that the author might have an intellectual understanding, but I don't sense that he truly realize it. It's like reading a very well researched paper with a lot of good citations, but the writer doesn't seem to have a deep realization of what the points he keep repeating throughout his books. I've been rewatching your video on "Reality is a strange loop" many many times. Sometimes there is a crack, but other times there are frustration not not getting it viscerally. Asking for your help sincerely. Thank you.

walking in nature + neti neti meditation + shamanic breathing -> no self

Yup! Folk like you and I don’t see the pursuit of no-self as the right way to self actualize. Practice no-self purely for the sake of skepticism. In that much, it is very worth it. To get the understanding that everything you know is illusory and perhaps outright a mistake to believe! That is what really matters with neti-neti. Look to find your actualize self anyway that you feel works best. Personally I did a TON of growth and even had some .... interesting .... to say the least .... consciousness experiences — by only practicing Active Mindfulness as a dedicated practice. I learned the whole time, learning from YouTube and personal exploration. But I never got into any serious meditation at all. All of my consciousness work has been practicing awareness - just whenever I felt to. During my activities throughout the day. A few seconds here, a random successful few minutes there... now I can be aware a lot more often and in a lot more depth... it’s great so much can be gained from awareness practice of any kind! Awareness alone is all you need practice it in the way that fits your personality

@ConsolePeasant Hiding Thought is a perception filter one uses to perceive two, creating the illusion of duality (if believed to be reality); self / other, happy / sad - things which seem to exist because they are not their opposite. But what is relative is not absolute, it’s illusionary - happiness “is” is contingent on sadness “isn’t” - they are thoughts and emotions. The belief in the illusion as real conceals the truth. This is ego. A rollercoster of emotional bs. Seeking Without thinking (filtering), one is aware of the illusion, and therefore is aware one is not the illusion (neti neti), and is liberated from illusionary doubt and fear. A state of Oneness, or Wholeness of the awareness. Some stop here, because, well, it’s pretty nice. No more highs and lows, no ‘tide’ of life dictating / triggering emotions. It’s a warm & cozy state. Relief. Peace. Some go on though. Found Being, is Self awareness of what one is. Because thinking and awareness take place within Being, thinking and awareness can not encompass, and therefore can not communicate, Being. (The Cosmic Joke) As I type, and you read, to you, I am illusion, and you are thinking. A total Being communication breakdown! lol. Being is absolute, blissful, the default state, the actual reality, extraordinary. Being is not an experience of Oneness, nor an experience of the realization of illusion, nor the experience of wholeness - it is the realization of what you are, for realz. Being is transcendent, or encompassing of, awareness, and thinking. Being, there is no illusion, only Self, eternal & infinite. You have hidden in forgetting that you hid. It’s brilliant. The illusion is more than the thinking can grasp. Doubly brilliant. The Being encompasses the awareness. Trips to the brilliance. Enjoy it.

Okay, so yesterday at 2 am I was smoking a joint and watching Leo's video " Life is a dream " and at first I was like this guy is crazy how can life be a dream, but then I thought about it and let it sink in and yeah the substance of a dream and substance of this reality is the same. You dont know youre in a dream when youre dreaming, it could be the same here. Then you started saying there is noone behind the scenes. That just resonated with me for some reason. And you kept repeating it and it was like woah there was something there so I sat down and did neti neti. It was very quick and simple. Normally neti neti is very difficult and grindy, this time it was extremely easy and fluid. Like oil seperated from the water. And my ego was very noticable. Like I was looking in onto everything from the outside except there is noone looking. And suddenly it hit me. That sense of someone behind the scenes percieving everything is part of the perception. There is nothing else but perception. In other words, there is no thinker of thoughts and no see'er of sounds and feeler of emotion and smeller of smells. And there is no watcher of everything that controls my body. My body is just functioning and there are just senses and emotions and thoughts. That's all there is and ever was and ever will be. It was so apparent to me. I felt like I was going crazy. Like woah, er this is not normal. I was in this state for about 5 minutes and then I was like no no no I dont want to know this I want to be how i was. I knew that if I become enlightened I will die. Because there will be no watcher and controller of everything. Leo was right that you will literally kill yourself. Lol I can't believe that this happened. I'm not in this state now anymore so I know I'm not enlightened. But was I just really really high or am I developing schizophrenia ( I have family history of schizophrenia ). Or was this actually a peak into enlightenment.

When I first did Leo's Neti Neti I rediscovered a hyper-awareness that I had experienced when I was around 5 or 6. I remember staring out of the window for hours, pretty much meditating without realizing it. That's why they say that the kids are always in the now.

It’s the clinging, demand, volition. First we search to find out who we are, our ego or self. Then the Ego seeing that is illusory then tries to find the self ‘god’...This is the same process repeated over and is an indication of the degree of seeing and understanding that determines the extent of union with the immeasurable. It’s the same ol movement nt of attatchment and grasping for something. Psychological time ‘time bound’ movement falls way short of the timeless. The sun doesn’t need to shine on itself. Tat Tvam Asi? Don’t be a stage 5 clinger lol And remeber, neti neti

So I experienced/got it ("enlightenment") (note that I is horrible incorrect but how can I else speak?). It was free movement - yoga - walking meditation - contemplation - neti neti method - bam. Two thoughts arose which would be great to discuss. Those are 1) As life from the "I" perspective is quite difficult, working on permanent awareness of nothing is the only work which can bring peace? 1.1) Can only this focus dissolve this endless illusion? 2) Who am I asking? Who is this "I" asking ? 3) So noone has done nothing ever..!? 4) Why are there teachers and books etc. about that? "Everyone" who gets enlightend knows that there is actually no one to teach. In teaching they´d succumb to their "I" perception and its desires of whatever sort. So people who live within society and are enlightened try to make this dream as nice as possible for "them"? As there is nothing like "a person", "my" enlightenment is the only real one but another person will say:" no my enlightenment is the only real one", why would he say that? Why would the experience talk to the "I" perception to have an interaction between them? 5) What´s the reason for this thing called "perception, experience, nothingness perceiving the perceiver/ being the perceiver- status)? 6) I am Confused/Shocked/Freed and I feel like someone who was forced to watch 10 years of television straight without blinking.

@dude neti neti is for beginners I need something much more advanced.

Change your life change your thoughts goes into the Toa Te Ching. Explains it very carefully it is nice. I really like neti neti meditation. It is small but packs a big punch.

@hundreth Don't check Wikipedia to know what Buddha taught... If you want to know what Buddha taught, directly refer to the source, the Pali Canon. All the suttas from Pali canon are here: https://www.accesstoinsight.org Buddha actually explained how our feelings, thoughts, perceptions are not self. There is a difference between 'no self' and 'not self'.. The source of anatta doctrine from Buddhism is actually from Anatta Lakkhana Sutta, which is the second discourse he gave, according to Pali canon. Here is how it goes: Not that when Buddha says 'consciousness is not self', he uses it in a totally different meaning. When I look at a tree, there is a form and there is consciousness of that form. And there is no self in it. This is exactly similar to neti-neti approach in Advaita. It is the same negation of anatta lakhana sutta which is also used in neti-neti. But Buddha's message has been widely misinterpreted all over the world.. Instead of the words like 'Brahman', 'Atman', Buddha used the words 'unborn', 'dhammakaya' etc... When we are discussing all this in English, you need to keep in mind that they are loose translations of Pali and Sanskrit words. There is a reason for this difference in the usage of words in Buddhism and Vedanta. History has the answer. Buddha existed at the same time when the first Upanishad was composed. We are talking about the age where there was no internet or technology or any kind of convenience. So, Buddha naturally used a different set of words than what was used in the first Upanishad which was 'Brihadaranyaka Upanishad'... The Upanishads also said the same thing in a different way.

The title of this thread has the answer to your question: New Age vs. Neo-Advaita vs. Authentic Spirituality... So the premise here is that only one of the three is authentic and you said that yourself. Labels like 'new age', 'neo Advaita' really do not mean much because there are no well-defined points on how this categorization is made...But as much as I have seen, many teachers who belong to this new age/neo Advaita group are deluded. When we talk about universally accepted spiritual paths, we are dealing with a mixture of things. Even the statement that God created the world in 7 days is universally accepted across Christians, but that doesn't make it true. But at the same time, there are certainly well-established methods which are universally accepted among authentic teachers. I see a general theme in all such well-established paths such as Advaita Vedanta, Yoga and Buddhism. There are three things which are important in these paths: 1) Discrimination between the pure awareness and the contents of the awareness. (This may sound like dualistic teaching, but it is pretty much essential. Developing this discrimination is the key to a spiritual path. All spiritual practices which involve doing something are intended to develop this discrimination. 2) Doing This involves anything that you do, like Kriya Yoga techniques, Shamatha meditation in Buddhism, Ashtanga Yoga or anything which involves doing something. This is mainly intended to purify the mind, prepare the ground and develop discrimination and non-attachment. 3) Non - Doing This is the very important step. The problem with neo-Advaita is that they talk about this and only this! They completely ignore the practices intended to prepare the ground. You will hear them saying things like 'You cannot do anything to become enlightened', 'You are already enlightened' etc. But these things are not said in traditional paths until a seeker is progressed to a certain level. Non-doing simply put is simply abiding as the pure awareness or witness. There are various approaches to this and this is also explained in various ways and various names like neti-neti, self-inquiry, mindfulness, witnessing etc. The underlying concept is the same. You abide as the witness, allow the thoughts and sensations to arise and pass away; since you might already have a strong discrimination at this point, there will be simple recognition of 'neti neti' without you having to do anything. This non-doing leads to a complete merger of the observer and the observed; the witness and the witnessed. In fact, there is no reason to even teach that the observer and the observed is the same, because it is automatically recognized by direct experience of truth. Read this for more info: https://nellaishanmugam.wordpress.com/2018/03/01/spiritual-enlightenment-the-groundwork-needed-for-seekers/

As the extrovert person moves on, he becomes one with the whole universe. As he advances, he reaches to a point beyond which nothing is left outside, he becomes identified with the outer world. The day this happens, nothing remains within or without. But by becoming one with the world outside, he finds himself and he finds the truth. Then he declares: ‘I am Brahman’. He becomes one with the entire universe. When he says: ‘I am the Whole’, he is indeed one with the Whole. Then he feels the moon and the stars are moving inside him. The introvert person while going deep within comes to a point where nothing is left to be seen, he becomes a void. Then he is able to say: ‘I am not’. Such as the flame of a lamp blows out and disappears -- everything disappears. The extrovert is ultimately able to grasp the whole. The introvert is ultimately able to grasp the shunya, the void. And both, the void and the purna, the whole, mean the same thing. But the extrovert reaches by moving along the outer journey; the introvert reaches by moving along the inner journey. At the end, the extrovert completely eliminates the inner world, nothing is left inside, only the outer world remains. The introvert goes on becoming oblivious of the outer world to such a point that nothing remains outside. And the interesting thing is that both the inner and the outer prevail together. Of the two only one cannot remain. Hence, when one disappears the other disappears too. If only the outer were to exist and nothing remains inwardly, the outer too will be no more. Because how would you otherwise identify the outer? In order for the outer to exist, the inner is necessary. It is only because there is the inner does the outer exist. If only the inner were to be left and nothing were to remain in the outer at all, how would you be able to call it the inner? It exists only in comparison to something of the outer, it is inner relative to the outer. For example, the pocket of your jacket -- its one part makes the inner side in which you put your hand, and the other is the visible part seen outside. Can you ever imagine a situation where only the inside of the pocket would remain without its outer part? Or, take your home, for example, Can you ever think that only the inner section of the house should remain and not what is outside of it? If only the interior part were to exist but not the outer part, the inner too will cease to be. If only what is outside were to remain and nothing inside, that which is outside the house would also cease to exist. The inner and the outer are two sides of the same coin. Hence, there are two ways to go about. Either drop the outer or drop the inner. With the falling of one, the other will also fall on its own accord. And then, that which would remain, which was present in the outer as well as in the inner -- in fact, it was always present even beyond the inner and the outer too. If our journey has been outward, then, that which would remain to exist we will call it the Brahman; if we have followed the inward journey, we will call it shunya, void, nirvana. Those who have seen god as Whole, they have traveled through the outer journey. Those who have seen god as a Void, they have followed the inner journey. It is not that while following the spiritual discipline of yoga, or the outer path, some day you will have to start with the Sankhya -- there is no need for it. Yoga itself will help you to reach. Let us look at it yet another way so that it becomes easier to understand. Let us assume a man is standing at the number ten and if he were to proceed from ten to number eleven and then twelve and so on, he would eventually reach to the infinite. A point will come where all numbers would vanish. If he were to come down from number ten to nine, eight, and thus move back, after reaching number one he would arrive at zero where all numbers are bound to disappear too. No matter from which end you begin your journey, the numbers will disappear. When this happens then it does not matter from where you started your search. That which will remain beyond the numbers will be the same. This can be understood in terms of Positive and Negative as well. Some people like positive words; these are the same people who are extrovert. Some people like negative words; these are the people who are introvert -- such as, the Buddha. Buddha is very fond of negative terms. Even if God were to appear before him, He would appear in terms of “nothingness”, in terms of void. Hence the word Buddha chose for his moksha, for his liberation is -- nirvana. And nirvana means: blowing of the lamp. Such as a lamp blows out, similarly, the individual blows out. What remains after that, is nirvana. Someone asks Buddha, “ What will happen to you after nirvana?” And Buddha says: “What happens when the lamp blows out? It becomes one with the Void”. So Buddha’s emphasis is on the negative. It is an introvert’s emphasis. Whenever an introvert will speak he will use negative terms. He will say: “neti, neti”, neither this, nor that. One wants to reach a point where nothing is left. But when nothing is left, everything is found. Then there is language of the positive: this, and this, and this too. When everything comes together, then what exists that too is all that IS. These are the only two ways. You can choose whichever kind of a journey you like. These two kinds appear very contradictory. They are contradictory as far as types are concerned, but as far as achievement is concerned there is no contradiction. One arrives through shunya, the void, as much as one arrives through the Whole. Some arrives by saying: neither this, nor that. Others arrive by seeing god in all -- they think and feel by realizing god in everything. The basic idea is one wants to reach at a point where duality exists no more. Duality can dissolve into nothingness in two ways; it can become non-existent if either one accepts everything, or one denies everything. It can happen if either all bondages are dropped, or all bondages are identified with the atman, the spirit. Either there is no bondage any more; or, the bondage itself becomes everything, the atman -- it becomes the universal, then too it ceases to be bondage. Neither the yogi needs to go into Sankhya, nor does the seeker of Sankhya need to go into Yoga. And yet, the point where both reach is the same. One does not have to make any changes. Both bring you to the same place. Each individual has to look within to see what one’s interests are, what is his or her true identity, whether one’s leaning is toward the positive or the negative; toward the Whole or the Nothingness. It can also be seen this way: if a person is of emotional type, if he is filled with emotions, the language of Wholeness will be acceptable to him. And if the person is of a very intellectual type, the language and expression of denial, of the Negetive will be acceptable to him. Logic negates, it follows the process of elimination. It goes on saying: this is meaningless, that is meaningless, that too is meaningless -- it keeps discarding until nothing is left to throw away. When nothing is left to throw out, the logic too drops on its own accord. BHAGAVADGEETA III - Karmayoga Translated by Swami Satya Vedant Discourses given by Osho at Cross Maidan, Bombay 28th December, 1970 - 7th January 1971

@Fountainbleu Like reading The Power of Now and feeling better, keep going in that direction. In terms of meditation, neti neti, and self inquiry, do what you can do, as you can do it, for the immediate relaxation, freedom, and awareness of it. It would be advisable to anyone seeking enlightenment, to be present now, and not in thought about obtaining a future state. I wish you well in your continued healing and recovery. Simply listening to contemporary YouTube teachers is also helpful. If you are feeling low, Abe Hicks, Elkhart Tolle or Mooji might be ideal. If you are feeling well and looking for the insights, try Rupert Spira, etc. If you are feeling on top of the world and can handle an existential kick in the groin, check out Leo Gura. (Jk) As you know, miraculous healings are very real, sometimes they take time, sometimes they are spontaneous. Perhaps you are an example of one already ❤️ It might be useful to feel out the forum, and private message someone that you feel resonance with, and conversation with them. It may look like addressing each concern slowly, realizing one step at a time, and it might take a while. This place is loaded with people aiming to help people. My opinion, if The Power of Now moved you, you can become enlightened. You can realize that you are whole already. I believe you can.