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Serious and very pertinent question here. I mean this genuinely and sincerely. How do you meditate without going crazy? In the "altered state of consciousness" my beliefs and conceptions of reality are stripped away. In the face of the radical truth of the present moment, my gaseous existence, it's all too much. How do you guys manage not going crazy or feeling like you're going crazy? Did you just push through with conviction, faith and determination and it was all good? Is this some sort of metaphysical "suicide" process you have to go through? Does the crazy never go away? What is your advice/thoughts/experiences? 2018-2019 I had a fairly regular routine of meditate. But now I repeat the same pattern over and over. I meditate once or twice over a one or 2 days, get scared by what I experience, and then go back to living my life for a month or some weeks before I decide to meditate again. I've decided I'm going to push through this time. Well I hope I do, lets see

Does suicide drop your score?

Welcome back Leo. I really miss you. Leo you have transformed my life. You saved my life. Without you I would have committed suicide. Keep up the good job Leo. Your videos are like medicine to my life. Regarding the environment I am living in, your videos give me hope to live and thrive in the world. I love you and I love your work. I have tears shedding over my face due to your work. I will contribute to actualized.org in someway at some point of my life or return something back because of your awesome work. Your work has transformed the quality of my life. I just can't tell and label how much. Your work transformed my relationships, habits, life purpose, thinking, reality, development, vision, skills, conclusions, hope, internal world, external world, education, circumstances, feeling, love and advice. Your work has shaped the trajectory of my life. You are a reason for me to live in the world. Thanks again for your hard-work. Welcome back and resume your hard-work because without it I will not live or continue to survive in my life.

Sorry to hear you're going through all this, I totally sympathise as I can recognise some of your story in my life too. You're the innocent victim of domestic abuse and violence, your feelings of anger, suicide etc are the result of the trauma you experienced. My advice is to seek professional help, it sounds too intense to deal with by yourself. If necessary, your family owe it to you to pay for it too.

Wishful thinking. You're not thinking clearly in this matter. You're emotionally dogmatic and irrational with that position. I mean come on. "Suicide is always a dumb decision. Never be suicidal." That's like those fanatic anti-abortion people who go crazy only because their fucking emotions go bananas.

@BornToBoil Hey. Life is hard. It's true. No you won't go to hell if you commit suicide. I'm sorry if you feel pathetic right now. I hope you'll do better and find peace. There's so much more to life to experience, to love. There's plenty of reasons to stay alive. I hope you find those reasons.

It's not as much a "metaphysical suicide" as much as it is a stripping away of untruth. Pushing through to what? ? Pushing would imply that there is something to move away from.

It’s not about the thoughts, it’s about the body releasing conditioning. “Pushing through” is a conditioned mindset to let go of. Relaxation is meditative. Meditation is relaxing. Letting go is effortless, not effortful. When emotional misunderstanding releases, have a good cry and let it out. If you can’t, write about how you feel, and let it out. If you can’t, talk to someone and express how you feel, and let it out. There is no “facing radical truth”, “metaphysical suicide”, etc. It can seem like it from years of conditioning & suppressing. We adapt and don’t notice this, so it can be a lot to let go of. But that’s the point, and the more you let go of, the better you feel, and the less you fear. The radical truth is love, loving you, flushing the conditioning out. A mindset of ‘facing it’ is making an opposition of it. The ‘scared’ is emotional suppressing. The emotional scale is a great way to understand. It’s empowering to be able to move up the scale, to know how and do it anytime. Like riding a bike, it becomes second nature with some practice & understanding. The body mind eventually does it automatically as needed in subtle ways. It’s most worthwhile. It’s also not about faith, determination or conviction. It’s about beginning to feel, remaining present, or returning to being present again & again. The more you feel and understand yourself, with tools like the emotional scale, the clearer it is that there is no problem or anything to be scared of. It’s good that it’s coming up...notice the mind’s narrative, which essentially is the habit of suppressing the feeling, and let it out. Try a variety of meditations, one will ‘click’ with you. Don’t try to ‘force’ one style or practice into place. One of those meditations will ‘click’ ‘subconsciously’ with a specific suppressed emotion. This kind of does the work ‘behind the scenes’ for you in a big way.

Suicide is not wrong per se, but it's sad because it's just a misunderstanding. You are not suicidal. Those are just thoughts and feelings trying to trick you. You are not those nasty thoughts or feelings, and you don't have to follow their command at all. You are beyond them all, perfectly good as you are. The body don't want to die. Don't hurt the body. The body is completely innocent in this drama. What wants to die is the false you. It's just a psychological entity that has temporarily hijacked you. If you look closely you can spot it, or parts of it. It's sneaky as fuck. But ultimately it's not even real, though it makes you believe it's very much real. It's completely harmless just pretending to be you. You actually hold ALL the power, you just need to realize it.

Suicide is always a dumb decision. But so many people nowadays are suicidal is nuts. Never be suicidal.

@BornToBoil suicide is essentially in most cases a refusal to take the responsibility of living out your life through the karmic debts and spiritual lessons that beset you. Reincarnation can be validated in your direct experience if you have an experience of infinite consciousness and omniscience, which can be obtained through what Leo teaches. When you refuse to live out the circumstances of your karma, you end up reincarnating in very similar circumstances because the spiritual growth that was designed for you by God and Karma did not take place, so you're just kicking the can down the road. Why not live out your self actualized life purpose here and now? and then be ultimately liberated from reincarnation?

During the last half of 2020, I experienced a series of what you might call hybrid awakenings/manic episodes. The last half of that year was so chaotic, challenging, unbelievable, and amazing. I feel like I essentially experienced enough happiness and positive emotions for a lifetime if not multiple. In this way, I’m extremely satisfied with how my life has gone, but now I’m kind of at a point where I don’t see much reason to continue. It is quite clear that I will constantly be battling with my disorder for the rest of my life. I don’t see the point in going through that when life has already satisfied me. I have been suicidal in the past with my most serious depressive episode occurring at the end of last year which required hospitalization and a month off of work. I just don’t see suicide as a good option as I’ll be removing myself from the lives of my family and friends. This would be a selfish decision. I just wish I would die rather soon. I can’t bring myself to make the selfish decision on my own, so I’ve just been hoping life would do it for me. Has pursuing awakening made anyone else here ready to move on? I’m just tired of being human at this point.

@Kundalini Cataclysm Nice. One can also contemplate, what is a death which is not a suicide? What is separate and comes to end, such that it’s end was not within it’s beginning all along? The seed was of the apple, the apple of the tree, the tree of the seed. ”What” dies, ”Who” dies, “I” dies, “you” dies. Awareness simply remains. Aware of these thoughts now, too. ”Seeds” and “trees” and “apples”, two. The eternal One, aware of “you”.

Oh man, I've been there. I can relate to suicidal ideation. I can't claim to have fully overcome it, but I did dive into it quite a bit. Here are some things that might help you: https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-biggest-mistake-you-have-ever-seen-caused-by-ego/answer/Artem-Boytsov The source of this answer comes from this page: https://www.true-freedom.net/#Part_Ⅰ._Enlightenment. Much of the content of this page has been quite helpful to me already. This was actually created by fellow forum member @BipolarGrowth I believe. If not, sorry for misquoting. https://www.andrewholecek.com/suicide-from-a-buddhist-perspective/ https://www.andrewholecek.com/karmic-implications-of-suicide/ Also, assuming you haven't experienced death through spiritual practice and/or psychdelics etc., I suggest you try to admit to yourself that you actually have NO IDEA what really happens through and after death. Thus, you'd be changing a situation in which you at least theoretically have ways to get out of the deep hole you're currently in for total and utter uncertainty. That means ANYTHING could happen. Death could deliver you into a situation that is equally shitty as your current one, a better one or even a worse one. This unknowingness can be quite painful and terrifying in my experience, but admitting it has helped me quite a few times already. I hope any of the things I've posted can help you. You're not alone in this mate.

I don't think there is anything right or wrong with it, and I don't think that saying it's wrong as a way to coherce someone to not commit suicide is the best or most loving way to do so. I'd say to a person who wants to do it "Ok, I love such that you're free to do it and I can't necessarily stop you if you wanted to do it." But also that I think it's true that if the person did commit suicide, they'd feel deep regret since they might realize the love they've broken by losing life, reality, others, etc.. So it's almost like those saying to not commit suicide can only simply suggest it, perhaps from empathic knowledge that the person will regret it. And that if a person doesn't want the other to commit suicide from hurt about missing that person, that that could be selfishness on their part, but perhaps also love as well, but that perhaps the most loving way to interact and respect a person who wants to commit suicide is to try to not impose your own desires on them since they may then feel trapped and not free, but that the best way may be to simply suggest in a way indicating you're not trying to manipulate them, but simply trying to help them see if they really want to or not and that they may really regret the decision. I don't know at all about this as I've not really thought about it. But I think for me I see truth in these values of showing love to others by not imposing your will on them, even in these types of situations, and that that may be the better way of helping them in the end since you're showing them unconditional love, which may be a more powerful force in helping them change their decision then trying to manipulate and force them to not commit suicide since you're selfishly not wanting them to die so you can avoid your own suffering from that (which I'm also not condemning, since I think that is also 100% understandable). Seems to be something there with truth.

Not the final outcome of life. Planning a date is not the same as planning a suicide. You can't simply stop eating and drinking water. Your survival instinct will kick in and you will go back to eating. Some people might have suicided by starvation, though it's just another method of suicide. It's still suicide.

@Preety_India but aren't people constantly deciding outcomes of their life with their every action? Also, what if I just stopped eating and drinking water and died? Would it still be a suicide?

@BornToBoil 2 things can potentially be wrong with suicide: That you hurt people who know you. And the possibility that life can get better, but that doesn't apply to everyone. Some souls are obnoxious and aren't loved by anyone. In my opinion people got it backwards. When a birth happens there should be mourning and when death happens there should be joy.

I would fucking love to be stuck in a social scene. Daygame? No bars or clubs? That would be paradise for me. Except for the masks and the social distancing. But isn't everyone receiving classes online? Dear @coca my advice to you is to give up. Just. Give. Up. In the sense of expecting to get laid anytime soon. Please don't give up on living. Keep living@coca once you give up everything is gonna be easier. I battled with depression from age 31 to 33. I thought about suicide a lot. I am glad I survived. PM me if you wanna talk Arc

I'm ready for death too, but not because of enlightenment stuff. The problem is that the body insists on surviving, even if you rationally know that suicide is the right thing to do. So life is a prison of suffering, and you don't even know how you got there. Life is so bizarre.

99.999% people don't understand me beyond a surface level, not even my ex questionable mentor, so.... I'm pretty lost and I'm 'bad' with words in this state. I can't identify what I'm thinking even after a couple deep breaths..need help asap, already called some suicide hotline numbers like 3 times in a span of 2 days. Ye, I am apathy?

@charlie cho Yeah, just be aware that you love the goal for how it makes you feel now, not as a hope for future salvation dependent upon the success of it. Funny how when we are in a funk and can't see clearly we interpret seeing through the illusion and suffering of self as a desire to kill ourselves. ? I know you mean it as a joke here, but what you said is profound. Who wants to kill who? It's the duality, the split, the self judging the self as if there were TWO selves that you want to dissolve, or heal. Healing is complete dissolution of a problem. The desire to heal ourselves and the desire to get rid of ourselves are the same... BUT feel and are interpreted very differently depending on how off track we are from the actual Love and healing that we really are. There already aren't two, so how can we possible judge ourselves, or worry about ourselves? We can't and when we try it feels awful, because we've completely diverted from the truth of what we are. It's mysterious how a desire to heal beyond the kind of healing our mind recognizes as possible could come out as hypochondria. And a desire to heal the split between one's true self and one's thoughts of oneself can come out as the desire for suicide, sort of like in the example of Eckhart Tolle.

The word desire means something different to each person, just like the word love. While I don’t per se disagree, I don’t find it precise to say desire arises post awakening. There is ultimately nothing to desire, as the fuel of desire is actually holon activity of an a part unknowingly pursuing it’s own wholeness, which it believes is not already the actuality. In that specific regard, desire is delusional. Desire in a way is no more than a misinterpretation of self, love, creation, and role in it. How could some thing be desired in a dream when the “thing” is me, the dream? It ‘dies’ with the limiting misidentification as human and the paradigm of separate physical things. It was never ‘wrong’, it was natural, because, infinite being is absolutely innocent. I could not in good conscience ‘blame’ a thirty year old for desire anymore than I could a two month old. It’s natural, yet not justifiable, hence the discord, and shaming individuals is never the way, and is always the expression of one’s own internalizing & holding of shame. Law of attraction could be said to be the turning point. From desire of ‘things’ without, to the recognition of the wholeness, and the source of all ‘things’, within. Reactionary behaviors & choices, as well as victim mindsets, etc, which could be rationalized via desire are scrutinized when one is said to be attracting one’s own experience. This inevitably brings one to inspect one’s own intentions & desires. It could be said that the awakened one is fueled with desire in spreading the message, which I’d be fine with. But I think upon more scrutiny that experience is simply sharing this love, and one in doing so is truly empowered, with inspiration, passion and joy. When the lens of loa really is worn, when it is seen I create my suffering, and without it joy is the default, this is seen to be true for all others. Very eye opening in regard to world views, religions, wars, politics, etc. The entire landscape lens changes. How creating our dream reality works... (goes & gets pedestal). The “answer” at the end of the day, is God, which is to say the question too, is God. The ‘catch’ is of course, we’re God, and not-two. The word perhaps ain’t nobody tryin ta hear, is responsibility. The experience of reality prioritizes itself. Care for the body mind and then outward. One aligns, one get’s one head on straight, one abides by the heart, one get’s one’s immediate environment aligned, and one then does or doesn’t, continue creating one’s reality in the realization one is nondual, everyone, the whole show. This natural unfolding of experience for an individuation, is the exact same unfolding for the multiplicity, the whole, or collective, co-creating. My ‘radical idea’ to contribute here is most simple. A community such as this creates a website which has a democratically created outline of acceptable parameters for a company. Could be ceo makes X$ in comparison to the entry level $. Could be x% of environmental impact. Could entail timelines to reach these parameters. Could have a ‘on probation’ warning facet. Otherwise, it’d have simply two columns, companies which meet these parameters and we buy from them, and companies which don’t and we don’t. I believe companies would be interested to be in the ‘we do’ column. Competition is to fierce and too fast to sleep on it. People might like this, because people work for companies, and are in large part getting fucked over every which way they turn. But the majority has the power, always. We’re all creating this, always. It’s an idea that arose from your question, it’s not perfect, like any idea, it’s a contribution. For the record, I would never, ever, commit suicide, and there is no logical reason to utilize the middle name of someone in media, should I be murdered by them. Feelin the love, thanks. Soon. If you’re interested you can get notified when it’s done.

I just watched the Social Dillemna, a powerful documentary that discloses the manipulation and persuasion within the algorithms of Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, TikTok, etc. The advice was to delete all social media so that we don't contribute to the real issues arising from such manipulation, such as; conspiracy theories, fake news, political divisiveness being at an all time high, distraction, wasting time, depression, suicide, and close mindedness. This may existential. But as a musician, I understand most bands and artists almost have to post and market on Instagram to get exposed enough. How else could we make a living online? Are there alternatives? What's your advice

Stop thinking so much. People think their way to suicide.