Beware Of Unearned Wisdom

[Bazooka Jesus]

I see some people on here using aggressive methods - psychedelic, yogic or otherwise - to reach expanded states of consciousness who don't seem to have anywhere near the necessary psychological or emotional maturity to handle these states and their (after) effects.

To those folks I'll say... watch out.

You guys are like a little kid who found a loaded gun in their dad's cabinet and now is carelessly playing with it. You have no idea what kind of an unholy mess you might wind up in if you don't tread lightly with this stuff.

Balance is key in this work, so be careful to not bite off more than you can chew.

Be wise. Be well.

🙏

[Davino]

Agree 100%

Personal development and shadow work must go hand with hand in the Awakening process. Otherwise you will struggle needlessly.

 

1. In my opinion, yellow stage Spiral Dynamics is a minimum requirement for spiritual work. SD green spirituality is very cringe, from yellow up things start making more sense.
2. If you don't have tools to deal with all your inner demons that will be brought to light by consciousness expanding, you will suffer intensely without knowing why. You need tools for katharsis and spiritual purging, given that you are western, the works of Carl Jung and many others on the area of shadow work will be most suitable.

This for me are the compulsary pre requisits for real spiritual work. Maybe also, but more biased, a vegetarian diet and sitting in lotus or half lotus. As well as martial arts or extreme sports, are in my experience, very synergic with the awakening unfoldment.

If you want to awaken to a serious degree I would take into consideration what I have said. This is what I would have loved to hear in the beginning of my journey.

[Soul Flight]

Agreed. But it is a weird paradox. I was too arrogant to heed any warning about psychedelics. I needed to get "calibrated" to reality and awakening. Each person has to learn the hard way. You gotta touch the fire and get burned. It is the Dunning-Kruger effect. You have to learn the limits of your body, mind, spirit, soul, etc. It is dangerous and scary.

I really respect Leo for mentioning the risk of suicide in a few videos.

Heavy stuff and heady stuff. Very strange. Advice falls on deaf ears.

[GabeN]

True, some friends know i've had many trips and ask if they should try it or not, my answer is usually based on how well i know the person, but then again, you never know what you're gonna get, you just follow the guidelines of basic "newbie tripper" rules if you're starting out, but remember to keep in mind it's never 100% safe, in fact, one of my scariest bad trips was when i took what i thought was a low dose of albino penis envy mushrooms but ended up having some suicidal thoughts because my stupid ass thought it wasn't a bad idea to mix it with one small weed brownie (ha!), in the end i learned a lot from that trip but man i wouldn't wanna risk going there again ever..

 

[Javfly33]

Didnt we all got into consciousness work to be able to work through our neurosis/emotional or psychological inbalances or similar stuff?

I mean most of people do not get in because of pure Desire of Truth. Most of them realize they are a samsaric endless compulsion cycle Mess and they seek in consciousness tools such psychedelics or other methods, to finally be able to step out of that mess.

You make It seem like people spend hundreds of hours meditating or suffer through Mind grueling trips just because they Love the truth and the absolutes of reality so much. No...we are just trying to fix literally what you are saying.

That is working or not is another Matter 🤣🤣

But what IS there else to do? Read a fucking book? Listening to a podcaster? Pay a Life coach for advice that didnt even work for him?

I dont know, The panorama is what It is. We are trying the best we can Buddy ❤️🙏😃

Edited March 6 by Javfly33

[Davino]

7 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

Didnt we all got into consciousness work to be able to work through our neurosis/emotional or psychological inbalances or similar stuff?

I mean most of people do not get in because of pure Desire of Truth. 

That is a gross assumption. I did actually get in this work out of a pure desire for Truth, a burning love for Truth. And I'm sure many others did as well.

 

[Princess Arabia]

I saw somewhere that psychedelics ruined a lot of folks because of their inability to process what they saw or had so much psychological baggage going in that it messed them up badly. Unprocessed shit can get revealed and if the body's nervous system is weak, it can really mess with the psyche after they've come down from it. 

I believe a lot here on this forum have had this effect. 

Edited March 6 by Princess Arabia

[Breakingthewall]

Nobody is going to give you a diploma of: suitable for spiritual and psychedelic work up to 275 ug of LSD. You are alone in this, and like everything it has risks. Maybe you're not smart enough and you get stuck in stories about God and all that, trying to be more advanced than everyone else, and you drift towards madness. that's life, dangerous.

[Javfly33]

40 minutes ago, Davino said:

That is a gross assumption. I did actually get in this work out of a pure desire for Truth, a burning love for Truth. And I'm sure many others did as well.

 

Your burning Desire for Truth is because there is limitation in you. Compression, falsehood, Thoughts, ego.

That is suffering. Is just that IS not a high level of suffering like you are in flight or fight mode, heavely depressed, or schizophrenic.

The Only reason you seek Truth is because you are not in a boundless state already. So you are chasing happiness and unlimitation as anybody else. Is just that you are doing It the right way, while most people are trying to get to the absolute by endless accumulation (money, fame, career).

 

[Bazooka Jesus]

On 6.3.2024 at 6:33 PM, Javfly33 said:

But what IS there else to do? Read a fucking book? Listening to a podcaster? Pay a Life coach for advice that didnt even work for him?

There are loads of tried and tested healing modalities that have proven to be massively effective and have helped a huge number of people working through and healing their trauma; their efficacy is well documented. It is simply a matter of doing research in order to find out which method might be best suited for you, find a good practitioner who resonates with you and then give it a shot.

Classic talk therapy is just one of a great variety of modes of therapy, and it's not even really that effective in comparison to others who seem to have produced incredible results in recent years, according to studies.

[Kuba Powiertowski]

Fortunately, stress tests are built into human reality. They will always tell us the truth about ourselves. The question of whether we are ready for it is a completely different but equally fundamental issue. Nothing worthwhile in life comes easy or pleasant. It's the same with wisdom. It usually comes to us after a series of disasters, often with a common cause. The spiritual path includes, among other things, the gradual dismantling of impermanent illusions pretending to be marble monuments.

[Inliytened1]

@Bazooka Jesus you can't have wisdom without unearned wisdom...come on - wisdom 101.

 

[Bazooka Jesus]

29 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

@Bazooka Jesus you can't have wisdom without unearned wisdom...come on - wisdom 101.

Mmmmm, nice to see that you take your responsibility as a mod seriously... 10/10.

[Davino]

On 6/3/2024 at 2:50 PM, Javfly33 said:

Your burning Desire for Truth is because there is limitation in you. Compression, falsehood, Thoughts, ego.

I desire truth because I am truth. The same way life wants to reproduce because it is alive-

On 6/3/2024 at 2:50 PM, Javfly33 said:

That is suffering. Is just that IS not a high level of suffering like you are in flight or fight mode, heavely depressed, or schizophrenic.

That there is suffering in "everything" doesn't mean that suffering is the source of my love for truth. You made a connection that maybe could be generalized but is not always the case, certainly.

Since I had my first awakening, when I was 12 years old: I was self aware for the first time and just one thing came to my mind:

What is Truth?

This question dropped like a Nuclear Bomb

Since that moment, I have been immersing myself deeper and deeper into Truth.

On 6/3/2024 at 2:50 PM, Javfly33 said:

The Only reason you seek Truth is because you are not in a boundless state already. So you are chasing happiness and unlimitation as anybody else. Is just that you are doing It the right way, while most people are trying to get to the absolute by endless accumulation (money, fame, career).

Well yes, once you are having sex you are not searching to have sex because you are having it.

Here you united again suffering with truth seeking. I want infinite happiness, of course. But so do I want infinite truth. And if I had to pick one, guess which one I would pick? 

This is not only a philosophy, in my everyday life I pick truth even though it may make me feel shity and goes against my agenda. Just today I made a difficult decision that could seriously impact my future job opportunities but decided not to cut corners and be truthful. Why? Because I love truth more than I love love. Till I awaken to the fact that they are identical, this will keep being the case.

I can't talk for others but I can talk for myself and I'm telling you that as a fish was born to swim I was born for Truth and this has nothing to do with suffering, despite wanting of course to be free from suffering and live in paradise.

[Javfly33]

@Davino I feel we are kinda saying the same things with different words.

If instead of suffering you want to call it falsehood, fine.

The point is, people go towards Truth because falsehood do not feel like Truth.

If falsehood would have felt like LSD + MDMA + Heroin combined you sure as hell wouldn´t have moved a single finger towards Truth. (because you would be complete, which is what you seek in Truth).

Now...you are saying that you did not seek Truth because any feeling or being reasons, but because rationally you love Truth? Because you were 'born' for it? 

Do you see this does not make sense... But Ok. If you want to think you are special or something  

Edited March 7 by Javfly33

[Jowblob]

Biggest problem with psychedelics is that when you do it first time it will usually be a good experience, because you have an empty mind about consciousness/god/higher consciousness etc. And you learn about it from empty/pure mind.  But the deeper you go and the more things start opening up for you, including everything that you read you're gonna have a harder time.

Because

1. Your ego is questioning everything, and attaching to stuff.

2. Your ego deconstructs reality, the deeper you go the more grip your ego start losing = fear response.

3. In higher consciousness, your feelings/thoughts/imagination can construct reality, if you're not aware of this you can be in big danger.

 

Best way to do everything is in a natural responsible manner, like meditation and so on. Even though i never meditate but this is the actual way to actually improve in a healthy manner

Edited March 7 by Jowblob

[Emerald]

I have a paradoxical perspective on this...

On one hand, psychedelics (and other intense processes) can really mess someone up if they aren't ready. So, I'm reticent to talk too much about them on my channel out of concern that people will face with experiences that they don't know how to integrate or cope with. And I'm more apt to caveat the use of entheogens to death.

On the other hand. I took Ayahuasca experimentally at age 20. And I was not prepared. And along with a variety of other traumas in my life, these experiences were awakening experiences that turned my entire worldview on its ear. And it created years of struggle for me afterwards. 

But now, nearly 15 years later, I recognize that these experiences and the chaotic times after these experiences were a key element of my life's journey and that "biting off more than I can chew" was necessary for me to demolish the identity and worldview from before in order to transform into the form I'm approaching now.

So... don't seek out unearned wisdom... unless you really need to struggle with unearned wisdom to transform and grow.

Edited March 7 by Emerald

[Davino]

2 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

The point is, people go towards Truth because falsehood do not feel like Truth.

Oh I love it

2 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

If falsehood would have felt like LSD + MDMA + Heroin combined you sure as hell wouldn´t have moved a single finger towards Truth. (because you would be complete, which is what you seek in Truth).

As a hispanic proverb says: If Mom had wheels, she would be a bicycle.

2 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

Now...you are saying that you did not seek Truth because any feeling or being reasons, but because rationally you love Truth? Because you were 'born' for it? 

I did not say that. I said they were not my priority. We do not pick what we like and what we dislike. It just happened that I did love truth from a very young age just for its own sake and above all my other preferences.

2 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

Do you see this does not make sense...

It does not make sense in the way you have strawmanned me

2 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

But Ok. If you want to think you are special or something

Yes I sometimes love feeling special. I used to love feeling special when I was a kid. I thought I was so intelligent. Yet when I saw the real intelligent people I was crushed. Discovering I was not in the elite of intelligence destroyed all my self image. It was hard for some years. However, in my pursuit of Truth I have been feeling quite special and I continue to feel so. 

Let's close this with your quote:

2 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

People go towards Truth because falsehood does not feel like Truth.

I really like it. I never saw it from that perspective

[thierry]

On 06/03/2024 at 10:13 AM, Bazooka Jesus said:

I see some people on here using aggressive methods - psychedelic, yogic or otherwise - to reach expanded states of consciousness who don't seem to have anywhere near the necessary psychological or emotional maturity to handle these states and their (after) effects.

To those folks I'll say... watch out.

You guys are like a little kid who found a loaded gun in their dad's cabinet and now is carelessly playing with it. You have no idea what kind of an unholy mess you might wind up in if you don't tread lightly with this stuff.

Balance is key in this work, so be careful to not bite off more than you can chew.

Be wise. Be well.

🙏

You are 4 years late brother. I already learned this by shooting myself.

[Yimpa]

Love does not discriminate.