Warning, Just because you sit and close your eyes does not mean you are Meditating

[Javfly33]

I am more sure each day that being successful with meditation depends 90% on skill and 10% on time spent/'effort'.

Careful with outsourcing everything to just the 'letting go' motto. Of course ultimately 'letting go' is neccesary, but how you get there is important. If there is no skill you might never get to properly 'let go'. So you might think you are 'letting go', but you are actually 'trying to let go', so instead you are not actually letting go. 

In the past I had 1 hour or half an hour meditation habits each day, and while more or less I was able to achieve a certain effectivity (meaning, more or less I was 'peaceful' most of the time and it started to become enjoyable) it was still kind of hit and miss. And the hits were still quite mellow.

Noways, what do I do, is yoga stretchings (a mix between Hatha Yoga and stretching), and then afterwards I sit to meditate, but no timer, that's just the last exercise of the session, whatever is the duration is the duration. So sometimes is 15 minutes, sometimes is 3 minutes. 

What happen today is, 3 days without meditating, I do today the session, I finish, I sit to do the meditation. Just as im sitting down, in the second 5-6 after sitting, bum. Gone. Total Samadhi. Pure unity. Yujuuu. 

How is that possible? The last 3 days I took drugs, didn't meditate, didn't exercised, 0 'consciousness baseline', yet what happens is: A yoga practice practiced over 100 times, dozens of subtle movements learned, I sit and the body energetically is completely opened, I move the hands in such a way, and the back is in a certain way, that as soon as I closed my eyes, and opened my hands, I was gone. There wasn't an intention to 'let go', a build up of 'consciousness', or an effort to silence my mind. Just that the movements, breathing and postures were the precise steps in order for the body to be instantly receptive/connected to the mystical. No praying, no morality, no miracles. Just that the right 'buttons' were pressed. 

I believe we are giving very little importance to the science and tools of spiritual techniques, and a lot to discussions, ideas, effort, morality, and idealistic letting go´s. I think we need to get more pragmatic. There is a lot to learn. 

Edited November 2, 2023 by Javfly33

[Leo Gura]

Rigorous technique is important for meditation to really work.

Kriya yoga is a nice set of rigorous techiques and it ensure you don't jusy sit in sleepy daze or daydream.

Edited November 3, 2023 by Leo Gura

[cetus]

It just shows you how nothing can be forced. But given the right conditions lightening will eventually strike. 

[An young being]

10 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

I believe we are giving very little importance to the science and tools of spiritual techniques, and a lot to discussions, ideas, effort, morality, and idealistic letting go´s. I think we need to get more pragmatic. There is a lot to learn. 

Practicing meditation for long to very long duration ( the time depends on skill or how good you are in freeing mind of thoughts ) has permanent effects on your state of mind and makes you eqanimous or non reactive. It would be easier to stay in a state of no thoughts and hence the connected state is achievable within a few minutes of meditative sitting. Apart from this long term meditation also raises your baseline state of happiness or consciousness, hence even though we would be non reactive, we would still not be a robot.

[itsadistraction]

Love this quote by Krishnamurti

"Meditation is one of the greatest arts in life - perhaps the greatest, and one cannot possibly learn it from anybody, that is the beauty of it. It has no technique and therefore no authority" 

[gettoefl]

meditation is ending experience not entertaining it 

thinking you get some reward or result is the obstacle and the deception

there are no buttons to press no dials to tune

the mind scoffs and squirms at all of the above

it demands progress and growth and maturity

there is no method no system no formula

you get there when ego no longer hoodwinks you

sit still shut up switch off sink deep

Edited November 3, 2023 by gettoefl

[Carl-Richard]

I think equating the term "meditation" only with the times where you "get it" is a bit pessimistic. There are good and bad meditation sessions. And just because you believe that you're not actually meditating while meditating, that doesn't mean you shouldn't 😂 Or else it's just the Neo-Advaita conundrum all over again. All you can do is continue looking inside, ernestly looking for whatever you think you're looking for. And then maybe some day, through some seemingly wild fluke or unforeseen circumstances, you'll enter samadhi while not even trying. That doesn't mean that the prescription for every spiritual practicioner should be "don't even try". Spiritual advancement is a complex strange-loopy process, like a hand trying to grasp itself, or trying to catch soap bubbles. Just keep on spiritual-izing, whatever that means for you at your particular point in your path.

Edited November 3, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Merkabah Star]

Sitting on a good meditation cushion helps and just being really mindful of how you rest your hands on your thighs as you sit, that’s a game changer. Just let them sit there really non forced and relaxed. That instantly opens my energy centres and sets the tone for the meditation.. 
 

 

Edited November 3, 2023 by Merkabah Star
Spelling boo boo

[Razard86]

You are always meditating...you just aren't aware you are. Many of you turn meditation into some type of struggle. Meditation is just existence. At a certain point in your meditation practice you will breakthrough and realize you were always meditating. 

Things that can help you is extreme long hours of concentration, or just sitting and observing without focusing on something in particular. Both work and are effective and give different results. 

[Spiral Wizard]

On 02/11/2023 at 7:52 PM, Javfly33 said:

How is that possible? The last 3 days I took drugs, didn't meditate, didn't exercised, 0 'consciousness baseline', yet what happens is: A yoga practice practiced over 100 times,

1. What drugs? My meditations after psychedelic intake are much more powerful. I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s also the case with other drugs.

2. What yoga practices do you recommend?

[BlueOak]

Meditative states are numerous and none of them is 'wrong'. This sort of thinking, makes people think they are doing something wrong when they sit down and close their eyes. Nothing after that point is wrong, whatever comes up or happens, happens. *Externally or internally, same thing.

People call it cultivating a state of receptivity. Not passive or seeking, actively receiving. 

Edited November 4, 2023 by BlueOak

[Bazooka Jesus]

17 hours ago, Razard86 said:

You are always meditating...you just aren't aware you are. Many of you turn meditation into some type of struggle. Meditation is just existence. At a certain point in your meditation practice you will breakthrough and realize you were always meditating.

This.

The thing is that it usually requires a lot of patience to get there... which most people don't seem to have, especially here on this forum. And ironically, the less patience you got, the more you would benefit from a regular meditation practice.

It's not the naturally fit and muscular folks who ought to hit the gym. It's the ones who aren't.

 

Edited November 4, 2023 by Bazooka Jesus

[Javfly33]

On 03/11/2023 at 1:14 AM, Leo Gura said:

Rigorous technique is important for meditation to really work.

Kriya yoga is a nice set of rigorous techiques and it ensure you don't jusy sit in sleepy daze or daydream.

Yeap, that's the power of this techniques, when you get to the meditation you are in an activated yet relaxed state which is very conducive for maximum results.

There is a big difference between that and going to meditate half sleepy and with mental fog, which some people seem to do. 

On 03/11/2023 at 2:35 AM, cetus said:

It just shows you how nothing can be forced. But given the right conditions lightening will eventually strike. 

Yeap

 

19 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

I think equating the term "meditation" only with the times where you "get it" is a bit pessimistic. There are good and bad meditation sessions. And just because you believe that you're not actually meditating while meditating, that doesn't mean you shouldn't 😂 Or else it's just the Neo-Advaita conundrum all over again. All you can do is continue looking inside, ernestly looking for whatever you think you're looking for. And then maybe some day, through some seemingly wild fluke or unforeseen circumstances, you'll enter samadhi while not even trying. That doesn't mean that the prescription for every spiritual practicioner should be "don't even try". Spiritual advancement is a complex strange-loopy process, like a hand trying to grasp itself, or trying to catch soap bubbles. Just keep on spiritual-izing, whatever that means for you at your particular point in your path.

The point is I enter samadhi when the technique was done right. The thing is people think samadhi or no self experiences comes from "Grace" and it might not be the case. 

Although sometimes intense surrender is another technique that can work of course.

In the past I had a kriya yoga practice and I would enter to ecstatic states with the breathing each day for several weeks. It wasn't coincidence or grace, just a technique very well learned (and that at that point in my life I felt pretty good so I was able to invest lot of energy into it)

So my point is to treat spirituality more like a science 

17 hours ago, Spiral Wizard said:

1. What drugs? My meditations after psychedelic intake are much more powerful. I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s also the case with other drugs.

2. What yoga practices do you recommend?

1. Kratom and cigarettes, so no they weren't psychedelics.

2. Right now I practice Angamardana and truly loving it. 

6 hours ago, BlueOak said:

Meditative states are numerous and none of them is 'wrong'. This sort of thinking, makes people think they are doing something wrong when they sit down and close their eyes. Nothing after that point is wrong, whatever comes up or happens, happens. *Externally or internally, same thing.

People call it cultivating a state of receptivity. Not passive or seeking, actively receiving. 

I get your point in the sense that it all depends on where you set the bar.

But IMO the bar should be set in no suffering or almost no suffering. 

[docs20]

On 3/11/2023 at 1:14 AM, Leo Gura said:

Rigorous technique is important for meditation to really work.

Kriya yoga is a nice set of rigorous techiques and it ensure you don't jusy sit in sleepy daze or daydream.

Do you still suggest and think that the best resources on Kriya are the ones that you put in your booklist?

[AndylizedAAY]

4 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

It just shows you how nothing can be forced. But given the right conditions lightening will eventually strike. 

@cetusWhat was the thing that shows that nothing can be forced and what are the right conditions?

[Jacob Morres]

That's a good insight, the preparation is also important