New War In Israel / Gaza

[lina]

1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said:

@lina

   You're welcome! It's sad to lose 2 days worth of posts, I've had some good back and forth arguments in other threads and some here, but nevertheless we have to sally forth.

@Danioover9000 yes same to me as well.. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4idQbwsvtUo&t=1483s

Honestly, this line from Piers Morgan & Bassem Youssef interview, sums up the whole conflict : "it's like being in a relationship with a narcissistic psychopath, he fucks you up then makes it your fault"-

The Israel vs Hamas conflict can actually seem like a fight between an impoverished angry fanatic and a wealthy narcissistic psychopath.  

Edited October 20, 2023 by lina

[PurpleTree]

1 minute ago, zazen said:

Islam contributed immensely to western enlightenment - Greek and Roman texts were preserved, translated and built upon and philosophers like Ibn Sina and Ibn Rushd reintroduced Aristotoles work to the West.

Sure that‘s why it’s sad what happened. I‘d maybe like to learn more about sufism some day. But i‘ve seen european muslim tiktokers who said sufism is trash and wrong etc etc and that sufists aren’t muslims

[zazen]

@Yousif 100% 

Religions are almost like cultural flavours. Whichever one you enjoy to participate in or are born into, you only maintain it as to maintain a diversity of culture that make the world richer.

All religions speak to the of the same God / Life but differ in their paths / Lifestyles to that God.

It's like the saying, before enlightenment chop wood carry water, after enlightenment chop wood carry water. You could still participate in religion but internally your experience of it will be totally different to others who mostly aren't practicing it the way you are.

What they take as literal, you take as mythical, what you take in their religious texts as descriptions of the history in which their religion unfolded they take as divinely legitimised prescriptions. 

[Yousif]

3 minutes ago, zazen said:

@Yousif 100% 

Religions are almost like cultural flavours. Whichever one you enjoy to participate in or are born into, you only maintain it as to maintain a diversity of culture that make the world richer.

All religions speak to the of the same God / Life but differ in their paths / Lifestyles to that God.

It's like the saying, before enlightenment chop wood carry water, after enlightenment chop wood carry water. You could still participate in religion but internally your experience of it will be totally different to others who mostly aren't practicing it the way you are.

What they take as literal, you take as mythical, what you take in their religious texts as descriptions of the history in which their religion unfolded they take as divinely legitimised prescriptions. 

Religions nowadays function as moral codes alongside the law of government to ensure moral behavior in that particular culture, it has nothing to do with spirituality and those that practice it nowadays when they do it, they do it as if it’s a duty to be fulfilled, a job that you have to do so you eat, not because you’re passionate about it, so mystical experiences are very rare. 

[at_anchor]

May I suggest a possible solution to this problem and then you correct me for why I'm wrong? 

The west cost should unify with Jordan, the Gaza strip should unify with Egypt then Israel wouldn't dare take any more land ever again. What are they waiting for? Do they want to win the war or not? If they want to save themselves, they should unite with Egypt and then that would be attack on Egyptian territory which those Semites or whatever would not dare cross onto, hahaha, they would not dare say that they will respond severely and hope to have as little casualties as possible because Egypt would blow that country up in one full strike.

While the fact that Israel is a small country hungry for land and survival, the fact that Semites were not treated well in the second world war, I mean, I'm sorrry. If they want more land, they can basically do it peacefully, maybe offer the Palestinians jobs, money, education, I don't know. 

[Lila9]

23 minutes ago, at_anchor said:

 If they want more land, they can basically do it peacefully, maybe offer the Palestinians jobs, money, education, I don't know. 

This is mostly the case, many Palestinians enter Israel everyday in the morning through the checkpoints to work in Israel and return in the evening. This premission to work in Israel usually pauses when there are many attacks or war situation with Gaza or the West Bank, for the sake of Israeli's safety. Sometimes Palestinians who work in Israel exploit the situation to gather information, do terror attacks or both for Hamas and other terrorist organizations so It's a bit risky. It isn't to say that there aren't decent Palestinians who only want to survive and don't want to commit anything against Israel. It's just a complex situation.

Usually, Arabs in Israel (many of them idenify themselves as Palestinians and not Israelies) have a very decent life in Israel, they can get free education, get a good job and to live a modern and wealthy lifestyle.

However, some of them don't value it, take it for granted and inciting against Israel, which is very sad.

I've seen a video of an Israeli Arab shouting on other Israeli Arab students who incited against Israel, he was pissed off with their ungratefulness and their hatred for Israel despite living in good conditions.

Israel is a democratic country and everyone can critize it, but there is a limit to what Israel should tolerate, I believe. From my understanding, now after what happened, Israel takes Israeli Arabs who support Hamas crimes against Israel in the name of freedom for Palestine more seriously.

[bambi]

This is the most accurate analysis of the current situation, and the only unlikely solution IMO
 

 

[Lila9]

It must be so mentally difficult for those people to evacuate burned people, chopped headed and mutilated bodies after Hamas' attacks. It gives me holocaust vibes.

 

[at_anchor]

@Lila9 I don't know then, you're right. It's crazy complex.

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, PurpleTree said:

But i‘ve seen european muslim tiktokers who said sufism is trash and wrong etc etc and that sufists aren’t muslims

2 hours ago, Yousif said:

 

It is logical that they say that, Ibn Arabi says that all religions are equally true, I don't know how it has lasted because that is blasphemous. 

1 hour ago, Yousif said:

Religions nowadays function as moral codes alongside the law of government to ensure moral behavior in that particular culture

Christianity and Islam are different. Christianity says that you forgive your debts, be poor, love God and your enemies, in short, abandon your ego, and you will enter the kingdom of heaven that is be with god. Islam tells you not to eat pork, not to drink alcohol, pray 5 times,  do jihad, treat your slaves and your women well, and after death you will have servants, you will drink from gold cups and you will wear gold embroidered clothes. Otherwise, molten lead will be poured down your throat for eternity.

I would say that Christianity points to the truth. It is a religion almost impossible to carry out, like Buddhism, since it requires abandoning the ego. Islam is easy, just act as you are told, but it does not point to any truth. It is just seduction 

Edited October 20, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Yousif]

19 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

It is logical that they say that, Ibn Arabi says that all religions are equally true, I don't know how it has lasted because that is blasphemous. 

Christianity and Islam are different. Christianity says that you forgive your debts, be poor, love God and your enemies, in short, abandon your ego, and you will enter the kingdom of heaven that is be with god. Islam tells you not to eat pork, not to drink alcohol, pray 5 times,  do jihad, treat your slaves and your women well, and after death you will have servants, you will drink from gold cups and you will wear gold embroidered clothes. Otherwise, molten lead will be poured down your throat for eternity.

I would say that Christianity points to the truth. It is a religion almost impossible to carry out, like Buddhism, since it requires abandoning the ego. Islam is easy, just act as you are told, but it does not point to any truth. It is just seduction 

I can’t verify the validity of the Quran, it was written after Mohammed died, but like I said Mohammed, jesus, moses those guys knew what it’s all about, not their followers nowadays, even in Christianity, they teachings may be correct, but they’re differently misunderstood.  There are also verses from the bible that can be seen as old fashioned and harsh like this one:-
 

Leviticus 20:13 ~ If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

 

 

35 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I Otherwise, molten lead will be poured down your throat for eternity

This refers to the idea of eternal damnation which also exists in christianity.

 

if you gonna talk about what jesus said like, forgiveness, and love your enemies 

go look up quotes of Mohammed 

You’ll see that they’re very smilier 

 

the bible also was used as a constitution for that time and it simply does not work in the present time.

 

 

maybe for moral code purposes for people that aren’t ready for the next stage of development it will.

 

 

 

[Vrubel]

 

3 hours ago, lina said:

@Danioover9000 yes same to me as well.. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4idQbwsvtUo&t=1483s

Honestly, this line from Piers Morgan & Bassem Youssef interview, sums up the whole conflict : "it's like being in a relationship with a narcissistic psychopath, he fucks you up then makes it your fault"-

The Israel vs Hamas conflict can actually seem like a fight between an impoverished angry fanatic and a wealthy narcissistic psychopath.  

That's a convenient shrug of responsibility. The truth is that Palestinians live relatively comfortable lives relative to the region and the world. Media likes to exaggerate the day-to-day suffering. I have been to Bethelem and East Jerusalem, and whilst I realize these are the wealthier Palestinian places. It still has to be said that living there is materially 100* better than many of the other places I have seen in the world like Jordan, India and even South America.

Palestinians could have easily coasted on their moral high ground and gotten something achieved but that's not the path they chose.

Edited October 20, 2023 by Vrubel

[Yousif]

41 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I would say that Christianity points to the truth. It is a religion almost impossible to carry out, like Buddhism, since it requires abandoning the ego. Islam is easy, just act as you are told, but it does not point to any truth. It is just seduction 

You’re forgetting about the sufi mystics, although they are realized, they are still sunni muslims, the problem with religions is that no one can interpret their teachings correctly but enlighten beings, if you’re blind I can never describe the color blue to you, it’s the problem we keep talking about of direct experience.

[Happy Lizard]

16 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

Palestinians could have easily coasted on their moral high ground and gotten something achieved but that's not the path they chose.

“It’s your fault for not sharing with me, so I guess I’ll take more for myself then until you feel bad about it, and then shame for it and claim that I’m innocent”?

Edited October 20, 2023 by Happy Lizard

[Breakingthewall]

17 minutes ago, Yousif said:

Leviticus 20:13 ~ If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

 

3 hours ago, Yousif said:

.

That's the old testament. It is supposed to be the old alliance between humans and God, with Jesus the new alliance begins, which invalidates the previous one. 

17 minutes ago, Yousif said:

can’t verify the validity of the Quran, it was written after Mohammed died

According to Islam, the Quran is written directly by God channeling through Muhammad, who was illiterate. God moved his hand to write it, and it is the word of God, literally. 

12 minutes ago, Yousif said:

You’re forgetting about the sufi mystics, although they are realized,

Sufis are something strange because they contradict the Koran quite a bit.  they are prohibited in Iran if Im not wrong.

If Muslims said: the Koran is symbolic, a parable suitable for the time of Muhammad, but it must be interpreted and recontextualized, then it could evolve, but it does not, it is the direct word of God and must be obeyed. Actually, the real good Muslims are the jihadists, that's the problem. and many Muslims know it and respect jihadists

Edited October 20, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Leo Gura]

32 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

God moved his hand to write it, and it is the word of God, literally. 

And who moves your spindly fingers?

[Yousif]

5 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

 

According to Islam, the Quran is written directly by God channeling through Muhammad, who was illiterate. God moved his hand to write it, and it is the word of God, literally. 

 

Gabriel came down to Mohammed while he was in a cave. Gabriel said ( Read: In the Name of your Lord, who created. Created man from a clinging clot,Read: And your Lord is the Most Generous, He Who taught by the pen, Taught man what he never knew. (Surah Al-‘Alaq) 

This says that the angel Gabriel is the one who said all that, not god. 

and this verse was the beginning of Mohammed’s prophecy 

if you ask any muslim religious sheikh of the meaning of that verse above, they’ll tell you Gabriel or god magically taught Mohammed reading and writing as in school. 
 

if you ask me I’ll tell you that by read he was referring to a mystical vision like reading the reality of the situation or reality with samadhi or an awakening. 

the sufi’s can see it , I can see it, but the majority does not.
 

32 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

 

If Muslims said: the Koran is symbolic, a parable suitable for the time of Muhammad, but it must be interpreted and recontextualized, then it could evolve, but it does not, it is the direct word of God and must be obeyed. Actually, the real good Muslims are the jihadists, that's the problem. and many Muslims know it and respect jihadists

also the Quran is a collection of revelations of Mohammed, he nor god wrote it down, 

some khalifa or ruler after Mohammed died collected all of the things that he said.

Most Muslims are ignorant to these facts.

I see the teachings of the quran no different from the teachings from the bible when I read both, and they’re both ancient and modern societies can’t be run by neither, but they both contain timeless teachings of jesus and Mohammed, you simply gotta have the right understanding and vision to get what they’re referring to.

don’t forget that the Christians think that jesus is the only god form that existed, and that the bible is the word of god even tho it’s the collection of the teachings of jesus just like the Quran, 

we know jesus is one of many Buddha’s or realized beings, although the Christians seem to think otherwise.

[Vrubel]

39 minutes ago, Happy Lizard said:

“It’s your fault for not sharing with me, so I guess I’ll take more for myself then until you feel bad about it, and then shame for it and claim that I’m innocent”?

No, let's rape young women and burn babies and be all surprised and victimized when they strike back.

Edited October 20, 2023 by Vrubel

[Happy Lizard]

How can we collectively work for a better conversation, rather than calling each others out? 

is the play/fight between our opinions really going to wake us up into seeing each-others/each of the two sides of people’s sorrows/pain ? 

Edited October 20, 2023 by Happy Lizard

[Happy Lizard]

3 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

No, let's rape young women and burn babies and be all surprised and victimized when they strike back.

You think I’m not hurt for the Israeli people, you are wrong.  I’m not going for a blaming game, and I’m trying not be inflammatory. My argument does not lead to let’s kill women and children. Nor do I support Hamas at the least bit.