New War In Israel / Gaza

[integration journey]

On 10/18/2023 at 5:50 AM, Nabd said:

Holding elections is not establishing democracy.

Assad hold elections every 7 years or something and he wins with 90% or sometimes 80% and everyone including him knows these are not real elections.

There was a national identity before the US invaded. You don't understand how western interventions are precisely why the region is fucked.

If you actually care then you can read the old embassies documents from the UK or France on the region around 1930~. You may call this a conspiracy but its a doggy dog world where big fucks small.

Assad usually wins with 99.9%. Elections in Assad’s Syria are a joke. 

[Lila9]

Son of Hamas leader, Mosab Hassan Yousef breaks silence on decision to denounce terror group: 'They don't care' about Palestinians:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/son-hamas-leader-breaks-silence-decision-denounce-terror-group-care-palestinians

He says:

Quote

I was born at the heart of Hamas leadership… and I know them very well. They don't care for the Palestinian people. They do not regard the human life," Yousef told Brian Kilmeade Thursday. 

I saw their brutality firsthand back in 1996 when I spent about a year and a half in Megiddo Prison… They killed so many Palestinian people at that point, and this is when I decided that I cannot be together with this movement.

I had to be honest with myself. Even though Hamas gave me advantages…. I was like a prince in that world… but I did not like them," he continued. "I turned against even my own blood… because this is how much I did not like Hamas, and today, 25 years later, they are the rulers of Gaza, and we see what they are capable of doing.

Hamas is not a national movement. Hamas is a religious movement with a goal to establish an Islamic state, They don't care for nationalism. Actually, they are against nationalism. But that's my understanding that they are using the Palestinian cause only to achieve their goals, so the long-term goal… [is] transforming the Middle East and the world into an Islamic state.

 

Edited October 19, 2023 by Lila9

[Hatfort]

I'm sharing Piers Morgan's debate with Hasan Piker. Both are taking sides, I don't think that's bad. There are some darts, but I like they allow each other to talk and explain.

About the Hospital, in further examination of two separate video captures of what Israel has pointed to be a misfired rocket falling, analysts say it looks more to be a rocket being intercepted by the Iron Dome and exploding in the air. If something caused 500 deaths, that wasn't it.

More questions I have. What's that damage in the parking? Could a hit on the parking alone cause 500 deaths? What about the building? Was it hit? Again, what caused over 500 deaths? Has that number been verified?

[Bandman]

On 18/10/2023 at 2:24 PM, Leo Gura said:

Fundamentally Palestine does not have a high enough stage of development to sustain democracy. Democracy can only exist at stage Orange. Palestine is stage Red. That means any attempt to establish a democracy there will fail, as it gets hijacked by jihadist warlords. Stage Red government is warlords all fighting with each other until a dictator crushes them under one iron fist and dictates order through brutally excuting all opposition. In the case of Palestine that means some radical Islamic, theocractic dictator. Who will be funded by Iran and want to exterminate all the Jews from the Middle East.

Of course Israel will oppose that in every possible way. Netanyahu clearly understands all this. Many of you guys here do not. Most liberals and progressives do not.

The US tried for 10 years to establish a democracy in Iraq and it turned into a total clusterfuck hijacked by jihadist warlords. So this is not a hypthetical. This is the reality of that region. Over half a million Iraqi civilians died in the fighting. The US didn't kill them all, they mostly killed each other in a desperate attempt to establish a power hierarchy with one guy at the top.

isn't palestine stage red/blue though? considering many palestinians are just regular muslims. do they need to first fully move to stage blue before they can go to stage blue/orange? how would that look like?

[Leo Gura]

This is good:

 

[Raze]

On 10/18/2023 at 8:56 AM, Leo Gura said:

If the West tries to impose a pro-Western, pro-Jewish puppet monarch, he will be overthrown by the locals, just like in Afghanistan. You can't just do these things from the outside. It has to come from within.

Again, there was a left wing secular Palestinian liberation movement, it was thwarted and radicals like hamas empowered by Israel’s government specifically to damage chances for a Palestinian state.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-11/ty-article/.premium/netanyahu-needed-a-strong-hamas/0000018b-1e9f-d47b-a7fb-bfdfd8f30000

Even a politician in Israel who was pushing for a peaceful two state resolution was assassinated by Jewish extremists.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yitzhak_Rabin

you can’t do everything in your power to sabotage peace and support extremists then complain the extremists are making you brutally occupy them.

Edited October 20, 2023 by Raze

[Raze]

 

[Scholar]

 

I think what Palestine desperately needs is a leader, a figure like Martin Luther King, to turn and direct the frustration of the people in a productive way, rather than have their anger be exploited and amplified for the sake of ideologues and their delusional ideas. If the palestinians don't take agency in that regard, the situation will not change, even if Israel will compromise and do what is right.

[Leo Gura]

That guy needs to change his name to Hussain Hussain-Hussain already.

Edited October 20, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Sir Oberon]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

This is good:

 

Look, here we are.  And what forces brought us to this?    Be awake, look.  I don't pray for anything other than the perseverance of my own soul.  And what does that take?  I love you all.    So stop it!

[Raze]

https://normanfinkelstein.substack.com/p/israel-would-never-target-medical
 

https://www.aaronmate.net/p/the-roots-of-israels-ethnic-cleansing

[Harikrishnan]

 

On 18/10/2023 at 5:55 PM, zazen said:

 

Nothing much of that is happening in India as guy thinks. His logic can be applied to India as well, when a Hindu govt came to power, Muslim friends thought they will act like Muslim rulers of past did. Nothing like of that happend yet. In a crowded country with different diversity of religious folks, its normal to have hate fights and killing, it was always like that in India, but never to any full collapse of system like in middle east.

[Sir Oberon]

19 minutes ago, Harikrishnan said:

 

Nothing much of that is happening in India as guy thinks. His logic can be applied to India as well, when a Hindu govt came to power, Muslim friends thought they will act like Muslim rulers of past did. Nothing like of that happend yet. In a crowded country with different diversity of religious folks, its normal to have hate fights and killing, it was always like that in India, but never to any full collapse of system like in middle east.

Fear and retrubution.   I don't see how anyone with a sane mind would want to escalate this war in Gaza.  Walk away, everyone.  Hamas, Israel, and all the others.  When will we have peace on earth?    I may be simple-minded, but evil is complicated and entwined in us all.   So the story continues.

[Maximilian]

On 10/7/2023 at 2:47 PM, Leo Gura said:

Their deep frustrations with Zionist settlement expansion and occupation.

Hamas has been self-governing since 2005.

There are issues with Israeli settlement in the West Bank, yes.

However, Gaza has been incapable of pulling their shit together.

Hamas was elected in 2006.

Since then, they have run Gaza like a 3rd world country, diverting humanitarian aid that is sent to them towards terror activities like building tunnels under civilian areas and digging up pipes to build rockets.

Another primary source of funding for Hamas is extreme taxation on the population, making it even harder for them to survive.

Radical Islamic Jihadism has a lot to do with these issues.

They indoctrinate their own children into terrorism.

Why do you think they have so many young men ready to become martyrs?

Palestinian children are shown anti-semitic cartoons on TV.

The only way this conflict will be resolved is if Hamas is wiped off the face of the Earth.

You can't have peace when your neighbors are terrorists.

I would highly recommend to everyone to check out this series "Whispered in Gaza" which showcase the brutality of Hamas:

 

[Bufo Alvarius]

Crazy. New footage shows, how coordinated the attack by Hamas was.

They really just had one goal: kill as many civilians as possible.

[Hello from Russia]

I guess many people don't really like cancel culture

[HMD]

 What about doing what the afghanis did after the US left? 

[Lila9]

7 hours ago, Scholar said:

 

I think what Palestine desperately needs is a leader, a figure like Martin Luther King, to turn and direct the frustration of the people in a productive way, rather than have their anger be exploited and amplified for the sake of ideologues and their delusional ideas. If the palestinians don't take agency in that regard, the situation will not change, even if Israel will compromise and do what is right.

All well said, it's refreshing to hear sane and humane voices in the Arab world.

Massacre of Israeli kids who celebrated Love and massacre of Israeli innocent families and civilians has nothing to do with freedom for Palestine.

Sad that people justify Hamas crimes and see them as legitimate leadership of Palestine. It's a shame. 

Edited October 20, 2023 by Lila9

[Vrubel]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

This is good:

 

So how do you crush Hamas without invading? How do you even attempt to rescue hostages without invading? 

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Vrubel said:

So how do you crush Hamas without invading? How do you even attempt to rescue hostages without invading? 

Hamas has said they will release all hostages if Israel agrees to stop all bombing.