Posted October 21, 2023 (edited) Israel instituted the blockade against the Gaza Strip not in response to a violent attack, but rather in response to Hamas's ascension to exclusive authority in the Gaza Strip, and earlier in response to the Hamas victory in the 2006 Palestinian elections. Israel, in short, engaged in an act of war against an occupied people, and violated its legal obligations to them long before Operation Cast Lead had commenced. A multi-referenced University of California, Hastings College of the Law analysis in 2009 Edited October 21, 2023 by HMD "The wise seek wisdom, a fool has found it." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2023 6 hours ago, Danioover9000 said: Very interesting podcast with Sam Harris on Israel/Palestine conflict: It’s a nice decent discussion but in the end all that blablablabli all those concepts all that look at me i’m smart and can into exalted language and know what’s up…. what is it really good for? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2023 (edited) Yeah, if you notice, Weinstein's solution to the problem is laughably unrealistic, despite all his fancy logic. Fancy academic logic is not gonna solve this issue. Which is why guys like Weinstein don't run governments or militaries. Edited October 21, 2023 by Leo Gura You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2023 Sam and Eric over intellectualised and got nowhere. Rationality is good but in over doing it you ration away the essence of the thing itself. Interesting analysis from Scot Ritter (ex marine corp) https://x.com/jakeshieldsajj/status/1715620378520035510?s=46&t=DuLUbFRQFGpB8oo7PwRglQ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 22, 2023 (edited) @zazen this paints a different picture https://youtu.be/OagYlYna75Y?feature=shared what is interesting is that he says even if troops invaded — to finally eliminate Hamas form their roots, others will spring up. innocent people being killed left and right in the middle of all of this, but “you should get sense in your mind b/c war is ugly and civilians die”. Between that and annexing some of Gaza, what is this looking like? Routinely killing people every number of years out of “we don’t know WTF else to do about it” gets ugly over time. Edited October 22, 2023 by Happy Lizard Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 22, 2023 (edited) Hamas wants Israel to invade Gaza, why else would they do what they did? It's like a chess game with human lives. Israel knows it's their move, as the world watches. Do they move without looking ahead? They seem to be... as I see it. Will they move, it's their turn. Could it come to a stalemate? The board ( Gaza) has been a little trashed already. Edited October 22, 2023 by Sir Oberon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 22, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sir Oberon said: Hamas wants Israel to invade Gaza, why else would they do what they did? Stage Red terrorists may not think that far. They may just act out of bloodthirst, not strategy. If Hamas has the opportunity to kill 1000 Jews, they may just pounce on it without much thought of the consequences. The problem is that a Jihadist doesn't really care because he's ready to die either way. Edited October 22, 2023 by Leo Gura You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 22, 2023 Iran seems to be behind hamas and they seem to be quite strategical though, they aren’t idiots for sure Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 22, 2023 maybe russia/iran want to open a kind of 2 front war against the west, ukraine, israel while china is eyeing taiwan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 22, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, PurpleTree said: Iran seems to be behind hamas and they seem to be quite strategical though, they aren’t idiots for sure That is true. But it's unclear to me whether Iran wants Israel to invade Gaza. On the one hand it may bog Israel down. On the other hand Israel has a pretty good army and they might do some serious damage to Hamas. Edited October 22, 2023 by Leo Gura You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 22, 2023 1 hour ago, Leo Gura said: That is true. But it's unclear to me whether Iran wants Israel to invade Gaza. On the one hand it may bog Israel down. On the other hand Israel has a pretty good army and they might do some serious damage to Hamas. "The New York Times was the first to report that the U.S. had collected multiple pieces of intelligence showing that key Iranian leaders did not know the attack was coming and were caught by surprise.Oct 11, 2023" https://www.reuters.com/world/initial-us-intelligence-shows-hamas-attack-surprised-iranian-leaders-ny-times-2023-10-11/ The scope and manner of the attack may not have been known. Who knows. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 22, 2023 13 hours ago, HMD said: @Mesopotamian A very bad assumption that nobody gives a shit about them. Baseless assumption. People attach a lot of meaning to these sites. From your perspective, you see it as a delusion. Most people don’t. Every nation, or even individuals need to grow up at one point and stop their attachments to walls, rocks, buildings... etc.. When are Muslims going to grow up? Also same for Jewish people, their sentiment is used to plant a state where it doesn't belong, so here's what they get. I wonder how many decades now it might take for an Israili Jewish to feel safe again sleeping few miles away from Palaetenians Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 22, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, Sir Oberon said: Hamas wants Israel to invade Gaza, why else would they do what they did? Israel is so much stronger than hamas and also more than any other country in the region because of its culture of learning from every mistake, survival mentality for 75 years and democracy level of development which allows variety of opinions and endless brainstorming. If hamas wants that, it is a suicidal desire. Edited October 22, 2023 by Nivsch 🏔 Spiral dynamics can be limited, or it can be unlimited if one's development is constantly reflected in its interpretation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 22, 2023 (edited) @Nivsch 1 hour ago, Nivsch said: Israel is so much stronger than hamas and also more than any other country in the region because of its culture of learning from every mistake, survival mentality for 75 years and democracy level of development which allows variety of opinions and endless brainstorming. If hamas wants that, it is a suicidal desire. True, at this point Hamas is much weaker technologically at least than Israel, I'm not sure what are they putting they bets on, maybe they thought about negotiating there way out of this with the hostages? yet again they might wanna try even if it looks suicidal at this point, stage red much? Edited October 22, 2023 by GabeN Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 22, 2023 (edited) 31 minutes ago, GabeN said: @Nivsch True, at this point Hamas is much weaker technologically at least than Israel, I'm not sure what are they putting they bets on, maybe they thought about negotiating there way out of this with the hostages? yet again they might wanna try even if it looks suicidal at this point, stage red much? Jihadists act only out of hatred and to go to paradise, but their leaders are strategists. I would say that the objective is to provoke a great massacre of Palestinians that unites and radicalizes the Islamic world and stop the conversations with the Saudis. one more step in the large-scale jihad by which its leaders live while enjoying luxuries in rich countries, and also earn points to enjoy privileged positions in paradise when they die. According to them, Allah wants this, it is written clearly in the Koran, and disobedience is punishable by hell. Edited October 22, 2023 by Breakingthewall Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 22, 2023 2 hours ago, Nivsch said: Israel is so much stronger than hamas and also more than any other country in the region because of its culture of learning from every mistake, survival mentality for 75 years and democracy level of development which allows variety of opinions and endless brainstorming. If hamas wants that, it is a suicidal desire. Hamas can't be fought in isolation. If Hamas is attacked Hezbollah will be involved and they have 200k soldiers around Israel. I doubt Israel is able to survive this, and if it does, it might wish it didn't. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 22, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, StarStruck said: Hamas can't be fought in isolation. If Hamas is attacked Hezbollah will be involved and they have 200k soldiers around Israel. I doubt Israel is able to survive this, and if it does, it might wish it didn't. @StarStruck You are way underestimating the strength of Israel's army. Israel vs Hezbollah will be hard fought, but there is no universe in which Israel doesn't win that war. You are comparing an advanced military backed by 2-3 US aircraft carriers to a terrorist organization with no tanks nor aircraft (other than unmanned). If Israel is truly attacked from all sides including Iran, then it might actually be an existential war (one in which the US is likely to heavily intervene). But don't forget, Israel knows what happens if they lose (the 7th of October on a massive scale), and more than likely has a few nukes under its belt. If it feels it's about to lose, it will not hesitate to pull them out. Edited October 22, 2023 by SurfingBird Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 22, 2023 @SurfingBird who won in Afghanistan although US has n1 army in the world? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 22, 2023 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMkA--JpO7c&ab_channel=MikhailaPeterson Michaela Peterson's Israel/Palestine: The History and What’s Real? Opposing Views with Norman Finkelstein and David Brog Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 22, 2023 https://www.theguardian.com/news/2023/oct/20/antisemitic-hate-crimes-in-london-rise-1350-since-israel-hamas-war-met-says Quote There has been a 1,350% increase in hate crimes against Jewish people as the Middle East crisis erupted, the Metropolitan police have said, with no arrests so far in nine out of 10 alleged offences. Figures from the Met covering London show that 218 antisemitic offences were recorded from 1 October to 18 October this year, compared with 15 in the same period last year. Hamas attacked Israel on 7 October, and Israel attacked Gaza shortly after. Ade Adelekan, the deputy assistant commissioner, described the rise as “significant” and said Islamophobic offences in London were up 140% over the same period, from 42 in 2022 to 103. https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1715785173957067117 Quote A man with an LGBTQ+ flag got attacked at today’s anti-Israel protest in London. A group of young men stole his flag and made it clear that his presence was not wanted at the protest. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
