Posted October 22, 2023 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Vrubel said: @Breakingthewall Oke, but I think I already made my points -Palestinians are not absolutely oppressed and have free will, substantial power, and exceptional world sympathy. -Israel bears responsibility to its own people and the conflict, even when it fails it is still responsible and carries the heavy burden of either the massive intelligence blunder or the crumbling of world support because of bad policies and leadership. -The Palestinians don't take responsibility for shit. Hamas is literally throwing its own people under the bus. Before the war half of Israel was protesting against the right-wing government but nobody in the Arab world is holding Hamas or the Palestinians responsible, this tells you everything about their integrity and commitment to morality in this highly selective outrage. 1) What power and world sympathy do they have that matters? Israel has far more allies and controls anyones access to gaza. The best Palestinians have is Egypt which is largely on Israel’s side at this point and even warned Netenyahu about the attack. 3) Israel elects its government regularly, almost half of Gaza’s population wasn’t even born when they had their last election. If Israel gets to control what gets in and out of Gaza, they hold responsibility for it. Also Saudia Arabia condemned Hamas. What governments of influence there have condemned Israel? Edited October 22, 2023 by Raze Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 22, 2023 @zazen Oke, please read my above points. They cover this issue, otherwise, I will just keep on repeating myself. @Breakingthewall @Happy Lizard What did you expect war would be? Go up to a big black club bouncer and rape his daughter in front of him, let see how he reacts. Having said that, for Israel, civilians are not the target but they will certainly die and suffer along Hamas as is the nature of war with such an enemy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 22, 2023 (edited) @Happy Lizard Disproportionate force is literally within a protocol called Dahiy doctrine. From Wiki: The Dahiya doctrine, or Dahya doctrine,[1] is a military strategy of asymmetric warfare, outlined by former Israel Defense Forces (IDF) Chief of General Staff Gadi Eizenkot, which encompasses the destruction of the civilian infrastructure of regimes deemed to be hostile as a measure calculated to deny combatants the use of that infrastructure[2] and endorses the employment of "disproportionate force" to secure that end Edited October 22, 2023 by zazen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 22, 2023 ben gvir, minister of national security: settler who usually resides in the West Bank occupied by the Zionist State of Israel, Ben Gvir has faced charges of inciting hatred against Arab citizens and is known to have had a portrait in the living room of his home of the terrorist and murderer in Israeli-American series Baruch Goldstein, who massacred 29 Palestinian Muslim worshipers and injured 125 people in Hebron, in the 1994 Cave of the Patriarchs massacre. Ben Gvir allegedly removed the portrait after entering politics Nice, right? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 22, 2023 @Vrubel The Hamas attack is a symptom, so is Hamas. The cause is occupation, siege and blockade of a people - not to mention the humiliation of it being done to them on what was once their land and the violation of international human rights. Israel breaks international law again and again with impunity that no other country has been able to get away with. The goldstone report caused huge uproar against Isreal finally. Bibi said the three greatest threats to Israel were Iran, Hamas and the goldstone report shifting the worlds perception on Israel. But Richard Goldstone backtracked on the report - most likely due to blackmail via Mossad and vilification by Isreali politicians which green lighted Isreal to continue on as always. But the world is different today. With social media things are much more out in the open and the truth of the situation is validated by the worlds protests which makes it evident that Israel is in the wrong. Time for accountability is here, Israel isn’t special and should follow international law. If this ‘war’ passes, it will face its own internal war. This attack has fractured an already disunited Isreali society. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 22, 2023 16 minutes ago, Vrubel said: Hamas as is the nature of war with such an enemy. These are the exact words one Hamas fighter used in one vice interview. this should not continue, believe me, nothing good could come out of this, I don’t care if you are for it or not, truly, but this is just not going to be good for both sides. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 22, 2023 Interesting that Baruch Goldstein. a murderer who entered a mosque with machine guns and grenades and started killing everyone, his grave is a place of pilgrimage for many radicals. the security minister is one of them. The government of Israel is the Ku Klux Klan. wonderful. normal for this to happen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 22, 2023 6 minutes ago, Happy Lizard said: this should not continue, believe me, nothing good could come out of this, I don’t care if you are for it or not, truly, but this is just not going to be good for both sides. Hamas wins. It was a perfect tactical maneuver. Everyone is looking at Israel, and seeing the reality there. Israel is behaving stupidly. Their leaders seem like a group of corrupt and stupid old Nazis, who are going to lead their country to ruin if they are not expelled by Israeli society. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 22, 2023 1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said: The government of Israel is the Ku Klux Klan. Oke, It's getting ridiculous and unintelligent. Most Israelis absolutely resent the likes of Ben Gvir and have been consistently and massively protesting the government for the past year. copy paste* -Palestinians are not absolutely oppressed and have free will, substantial power, and exceptional world sympathy. -Israel bears responsibility to its own people and the conflict, even when it fails it is still responsible and carries the heavy burden of either the massive intelligence blunder or the crumbling of world support because of bad policies and leadership. -The Palestinians don't take responsibility for shit. Hamas is literally throwing its own people under the bus. Before the war half of Israel was protesting against the right-wing government but nobody in the Arab world is holding Hamas or the Palestinians responsible, this tells you everything about their integrity and commitment to morality in this highly selective outrage. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 22, 2023 It seems the boys want more war… great https://youtu.be/zBjgncmKG_w?si=BhlI81X7ArzDcOXl panel on israel/lebanon “skirmishes” Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 22, 2023 7 minutes ago, Vrubel said: Oke, It's getting ridiculous and unintelligent. Most Israelis absolutely resent the likes of Ben Gvir and have been consistently and massively protesting the government for the past year Maybe, but the fact is that Israel is a country that has these politicians in charge. the same as when the Germans had Hitler and his friends, and they was elected, same than the Israeli. Having people like that in charge of a country is a guarantee of very serious shit, and the responsible is the whole country. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 22, 2023 3 minutes ago, Vrubel said: Oke, It's getting ridiculous and unintelligent. Most Israelis absolutely resent the likes of Ben Gvir and have been consistently and massively protesting the government for the past year. copy paste* -Palestinians are not absolutely oppressed and have free will, substantial power, and exceptional world sympathy. -Israel bears responsibility to its own people and the conflict, even when it fails it is still responsible and carries the heavy burden of either the massive intelligence blunder or the crumbling of world support because of bad policies and leadership. -The Palestinians don't take responsibility for shit. Hamas is literally throwing its own people under the bus. Before the war half of Israel was protesting against the right-wing government but nobody in the Arab world is holding Hamas or the Palestinians responsible, this tells you everything about their integrity and commitment to morality in this highly selective outrage. - Can you elaborate on this ‘substantial’ power? Sure, not ‘absolute’ but if 95% controlled ie limited that’s still bad. According to free market capitalism the movement of goods and services is required for growth, is this freedom allowed to them? - That’s how the world works, you violate international law you get condemned or penalised. Israel is lucky they only get the former in lip service and protests but never get held to account by law. - Isreali propaganda perpetuates this victim mentality and ‘threats’ from all around to be used as a pawn for US foreign policy. Bibi has used it to play the strong man saviour and embolden the far right. That narrative would crumble with the Arab world normalising ties. - Responsibility lies upon those that have the power to respond. Power they’ve been deprived of. What else are they to resort to? PLO are in pocket with Isreal, the Palestinians deferred to extremists as a last resort to get them out of their predicament. When they tried peaceful protests such as the March of return women and children got their kneecaps blown. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 22, 2023 (edited) @Happy Lizard If ISIS would sluaghter 1300 of your country's people, Wouldnt you bomb mosoul and raqqa in order to later get in troops safely as possible (for your troops) to eliminate him? Edited October 22, 2023 by Nivsch 🇮🇱 Israel finished 5th in Eurovision while 2nd in Europe's public vote. The song based on Oct events. Eden's performance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K60BWlEhtAA 🌻 Stage Yellow emerges when Green starts to have tolerance and respect to the variety of views within HIMSELF. Israelis here? Let me know! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 22, 2023 (edited) @Nabd Those cities are 70km close to you and from them ISIS terrorists came to you and kill you in your homes. 1,300 of you. Would you do nothing? Edited October 22, 2023 by Nivsch 🇮🇱 Israel finished 5th in Eurovision while 2nd in Europe's public vote. The song based on Oct events. Eden's performance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K60BWlEhtAA 🌻 Stage Yellow emerges when Green starts to have tolerance and respect to the variety of views within HIMSELF. Israelis here? Let me know! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 22, 2023 6 minutes ago, Nivsch said: @Happy Lizard If ISIS would slughter 1300 of your people on your country, you wouldnt bomb mosoul and raqqa? How is it possible that 58 children died from sniper bullets in the 2018 protests? and then an Israeli minister said that they know where each bullet goes? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 22, 2023 7 minutes ago, Nivsch said: @Happy Lizard If ISIS would sluaghter 1300 of your people on your country, you wouldnt bomb mosoul and raqqa in order to eliminate him? The question is what caused them to do that in the first place? If people in the developed west can be sick enough to become serial killers imagine people born into hell, living adjacent to a heaven that could’ve been theirs. To your question - as a nation state wishing to not isolate itself from the world order eliminate the threat in the short term within keeping to international law. In the long term rectify the root causes. War is a fact of world affairs and will be for a long time, the key is it’s regulated. Bombing entire cities will only bombard you with the problem as it crops back up in vengeance - especially if the underlying causes aren’t fixed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 22, 2023 (edited) @Nivsch wouldn’t you agree that it’s not sane? wouldn’t you agree this is coming form blind revenge? Nothing good could come out of this believe me. It’s not that I don’t see what you are trying to say. But this just not going to be good for any side. More hatred will be left. I do understand that I’m trying to ask Israel too much of an ask. it’s just insane to me to defend this. Edited October 22, 2023 by Happy Lizard Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 22, 2023 21 minutes ago, Nabd said: Most ISIS fighters came from Europe According to this not https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_fighters_in_the_Syrian_Civil_War_and_War_in_Iraq Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 22, 2023 In an interview with George Galloway, Scott Ritter gives his analysis of the possible invasion of Gaza, the serious complexities involved, and why success is unlikely. You aren’t hearing this on the Western media. Scott Ritter was formerly a United States Marine Corps Intelligence Officer and UNSCOM weapons inspector. Let’s pray that the adults enter the room and deescalate this crisis. https://youtu.be/8Ti1dKRz53k?si=JdG-UHm8DmDXRh7v Vincit omnia Veritas. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 22, 2023 19 minutes ago, Nivsch said: @Nabd Those cities are 70km close to you and from them ISIS terrorists came to you and kill you in your homes. 1,300 of you. Would you do nothing? 7 minutes ago, Happy Lizard said: expel, try and imprison those responsible for security who allowed this in such a flagrant manner that they are as guilty as the terrorists themselves. then completely blockade Gaza and demand the surrender of the terrorists Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
