My Advice To Leo, As A Friend

[Derek White]

Hi Leo and forum members,

Firstly I want to appreciate you, Leo, for coming out and apologizing for your behaviour in the past few years. It is great that you are doing some much needed self reflection. 

I left the forum a little less than a year ago because I started to see the faults in what you were doing. Your ego was getting bigger and bigger as you accumulated more psychedelic experiences. You had no relationship with your audience. You were wrapped up in your mind. To be frank, you did not have a relationship with reality either. (And I think you had a brief moment where you believed being arrogant was good for you? What was that about? lol, Not giving authority to others in spiritual matters is quite a different thing than being arrogant. Arrogance means giving authority to your limited experiences and thoughts. You have to be humble in order to see truth.)

And I felt there was a disconnect between what you said and what you were actually doing. It felt like you didn't practice what you preached. You told people how to be productive and have a clear mind but you yourself didn't show any evidence of being productive, or any of the things you preached. And you were doing basically "what came to your mind" and it came across as, and it probably was the case, that you didn't have any awareness of your thoughts or mind. TBH it felt like your own life was unwholistic and in shambles and you were lecturing others on how to live a wholesome life. 

I want to share a little bit about me. I started watching your videos even before 2016. So I've been following you for more than 7+ years. I've watched almost all your videos (except the last 2 or 3) and many of them multiple times. I have taken notes, bought the book list and the Life Purpose course too. I use to come to the forum as well for some time regularly to read what was posted. I have a binder full of video summaries and notes on your videos. So I've been seriously following your work for a long time. And I would like to tell you and everyone else too, that yes, there were many things you said which opened my mind but ultimately it did not really improve my life. Yes, I did pick up some fancy ideas about how the world works, but I was still lazy, sad, conditioned, neurotic, seeking pleasure and avoiding pain as always. 

After I stopped listening to you, after some time I revisited J Krishnamurti. And he helped me to see reality and understand my mind way more than your videos. Believe it or not my life came on track after listening to him. To share something personal, I failed first year of university and was asked to discontinue studies in 2019 and I didn't do anything except work a minimum wage job till late 2022. And TBH a large part of that has to do with listening to you. After listening to JK my life actually got better and I started improving in my personal life and in my "spiritual" understanding as well.

Right now I think your understanding of reality, ego, and mind is very superficial. You don't understand the mind, your ego at all, only at a superficial level. What you have is mere words, nothing real. If you did you wouldn't be where you're at and doing the things you do.

As a friend, I think you need to RE-EXAMINE reality without the baggage of the past, your memories and past psychedelic experiences. Take a fresh look, an unbiased look at what is happening. Look at the ego, the mind, and your thoughts with a fresh look. I highly recommend seriously and sincerely listening to J Krishnamurti's talks on YouTube to use him as a mirror to self reflect (he also has a podcast, but the full talks are better to start with). 

And I would recommend to not be in a hurry to express everything in words to make a video. Don't verbalize what you saw, make conclusions out of it and make it into a video. That might be harming you more than you think. 

Lastly I only say this as a friend to another friend. 

Edited August 6, 2023 by Derek White

[Buck Edwards]

What did you learn from Jk? Can you be detailed? 

[OBEler]

@Derek White did you tried psychedelics? Which and how often? 

[Derek White]

22 hours ago, OBEler said:

@Derek White did you tried psychedelics? Which and how often? 

No I haven’t. I don’t really want to either. I’ve known people who did psychedelics and even on the forum and they are a mess. They don’t have mastery over their psyche or even an understanding of their minds. 

 

I’m not denying that psychedelics give “profound” experiences and they make you sensitive enough so you see something new, but it’s not it. 

 

What they do and what Leo does is experience some insight in the psychedelic state and then make conclusions from that and speak about it after from memory. That’s not truth. They are speaking from memory of a past experience, it’s not a living reality. By accumulating experiences and trying to repeat the same experience only your ego gets bigger. It’s the continuation of the past so it’s the wrong direction if you want to live in reality and know reality. 

[OBEler]

@Derek White I think you have bias here. 

You cannot blame leo's teachings not working for you if you dont even do the practice. He said over and over again that you cannot understand his work then when he has deeper topics. 

"What they do and what Leo does is experience some insight in the psychedelic state and then make conclusions from that and speak about it after from memory." 

Nope. Truth can stay. It might not stick with one or two insights but after many awakenings you will experience reality from truth. You need to embody and integrate the insights on psychedelics then it will happen. 

No one here said just take psychedelics and thats it. Contemplation and Integration work after are cruitial. 

You have a very shallow perspective on psychedelics, but thats not a surprise for someone who never took one. 

 

 

 

Edited August 7, 2023 by OBEler

[LSD-Rumi]

@Derek White I think you are doing a lot of projections on Leo. He wasn't toxic or heartless and he continued providing a lot of very helpful advice here apart from some rants which I ironically enjoyed. I was never offended by any of what he used to say, nor considered it as arrogance. I think what Leo means, is that he was distracted with the spiritual that he forgot the humane aspect of life. It is something between him and his self rather than between him and us.

 

Edited August 7, 2023 by LSD-Rumi

[bensenbiz]

1 hour ago, LSD-Rumi said:

@Derek White I think you are doing a lot of projections on Leo. He wasn't toxic or heartless and he continued providing a lot of very helpful advice here apart from some rants which I ironically enjoyed. I was never offended by any of what he used to say, nor considered it as arrogance. I think what Leo means, is that he was distracted with the spiritual that he forgot the humane aspect of life. It is something between him and his self rather than between him and us.

 

I gained so much from Leo‘s teaching, following then for over 7 years and didn‘t gave him any penny. There is no way to criticize him as person. You guys are to obsessed with him as a person anyways, it‘s about the content, either you resonate with it or not. 
 

he is not even charging you, so be careful with your expectation. Folks pay thousands of dollars to some Guru idiots just to get a bunch of BS knowledge.

[Derek White]

11 hours ago, OBEler said:

Nope. Truth can stay. It might not stick with one or two insights but after many awakenings you will experience reality from truth. You need to embody and integrate the insights on psychedelics then it will happen. 

 

This "embodying" and "integrating" insights, whether from psychedelics or from other means, is the thought creating an image from a past experience and trying to "become" that. It is a movement away from what is. 

You doing it again and again hundreds of time implies that you are chasing an idea, trying to repeat a past experience again and again. It's a pursuit and a repetition born out of thought. And it implies you don't see this phenomena taking place, if you did there wouldn't be any need to continue doing it.  

I only share this as a friend and a well wisher because maybe after being on this journey with Leo I started to see him as a friend. I know it's probably going to fall on deaf ears so I am not going to push too hard, but this is a place where we share spiritual insights so I thought I should share where I think this community is going wrong. So I'm going to leave it right here, if people see what I'm saying that's good if they don't that's fine too.

I only hope people ask questions to themselves when they do psychedelics like why do you do them? Why do you do them again and again? What do you actually want out of them? Is it a preconceived notion from your memory that you are chasing? If it is what does that imply? etc. 

[itsadistraction]

@Derek White K would say truth is a path less land. There is no way Leo should act. 

[integral]

Leo is a scientist of consciousness, his focus is on Truth so it makes no sense to believe what any other teacher has to say, he has to validate everything for him self. If his conclusions align with another teacher then they are coincidentally in agreement, so far there are not many that align. 

Edited August 8, 2023 by integral

[Leo Gura]

@Derek White Nice try.

You clever Devil

Edited August 8, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Majed]

@Leo Gura what do you think he has to gain from making this post ?

[Anon212]

Stop projecting bro.

I have also read a lot of krishnamurti and his work is EXTREMELY NUANCED and tough to grasp.

You are just parroting what you read.

[Starlight321]

Oh, from my pov it looks like you're projecting.  One tend to see what one is looking for. For the full picture, here are many people who've made tones of progress over the years and not to mention the lives he's saved with down to earth advice. 

I notice this behaviour sometimes in myself. Look out for hurt which turns into hatred and attack disguised in form of critisism from the guy with image of being nice.

[Harsh Bagdia]

Hello Derek ? it's good to know that your life is on track...well done!!

And yes J Krishnamurti is smart. I have read some of Jks work... But compared to Leo? I don't think that's a good idea...

It can happen that you resonate with his teachings more and it helped you at certain time whereas Leo's didn't.  

But it is because Leo's videos are much advanced than his. And not everyone can comprehend them. 

This is not about Jk vs Leo. 

It is about what is relevant right now to consciousness? For me any day Leo because first he is alive today...he can tell if we are interpreting him right. He is growing at such a fast pace. And most importantly his understanding is way way deeper than Jk and majority of others.

Probably 1000x Jk's understanding will make Leo's understanding.

And if we take Alien Consciousness into account, I don't know maybe million times but I won't comment on that because I haven't accessed those states. 

 

[Derek White]

On 2023-08-07 at 1:20 AM, OBEler said:

You cannot blame leo's teachings not working for you if you dont even do the practice. He said over and over again that you cannot understand his work then when he has deeper topics. 

One thing I want to say before I go, is that no one talks about how much time and effort and money is spent on “practises” which Leo talks about. You should ask if the person you’re learning from is even qualified to teach you before you waste your time and effort doing their practices, because you would be doing their practises for years and wasting your time and effort, without ever getting the results.

 

So it’s not just about the big concepts, even the basic, self-help motivation advice Leo gets wrong. He says you have to create a set of values and pursue them. This way of motivating yourself to action is foolish, especially coming from a spiritual person. If it was coming from a motivational speaker, it wouldn’t be that big of a deal. You do not need all these complicated values and frameworks to motivate yourself. All this create unnecessary conflict in the mind. Your pitching one thought against the other. It seems Leo can’t see this basic phenomena which is happening in the mind. To me it’s clear now that this is not the right way. (You might become successful but you’re life will be in conflict and a complete mess) There’s a completely different way to act in the world which Leo doesn’t seem to know about. So basically, he’s telling people to do hundreds of doses of psychedelics over a span of years, contemplation, and everything else to gain spiritual understanding, even though he doesn’t understand basic things himself. He called himself the most advanced spiritual person on the planet yet I can clearly see that he doesn’t understand basic psychological phenomena. I don’t think psychedelics have helped Leo understand reality any better. I think it has made him close minded and put him in a trap. I don’t want what Leo has. So I don’t want to do psychedelics because I can clearly see it hasn’t worked for him, because I can see he doesn’t understand basic psychological facts. 
 

I just wanna end with – if later in life you guys feel you got nowhere with your approach, don’t forget someone tried to reach out and warn you. 

[Carl-Richard]

I would try to become aware of the tendency to latch onto role models and external sources of knowledge or wisdom, and also try to identify an internal compass that is based on logic and not just feeling (and which is self-consistent and "your own"). This is coming from somebody who has experienced many of the things you've mentioned and who also used to think like you do. But these things also come with life experience, so you shouldn't hasten yourself too much. And don't completely suppress your feeling side either. It's a superpower.

Edited August 9, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Nilsi]

2 hours ago, Derek White said:

So it’s not just about the big concepts, even the basic, self-help motivation advice Leo gets wrong. He says you have to create a set of values and pursue them. This way of motivating yourself to action is foolish, especially coming from a spiritual person. If it was coming from a motivational speaker, it wouldn’t be that big of a deal. You do not need all these complicated values and frameworks to motivate yourself. All this create unnecessary conflict in the mind. Your pitching one thought against the other. It seems Leo can’t see this basic phenomena which is happening in the mind. To me it’s clear now that this is not the right way. (You might become successful but you’re life will be in conflict and a complete mess) There’s a completely different way to act in the world which Leo doesn’t seem to know about. . 

This seems to be the crux of it.

You‘re clearly acting out some classic eastern spiritual mumbo jumbo („action and desire is the root of suffering,“ „life is an illusion and participating in it is evil,“ etc.) - you even mentioned JK as your „guru“…

So basically you‘re projecting your shadow into Leo and picking a fight with him, now that he’s at a low point, because deep down it bothers you that other people, who are not as „virtuous“ as you, are more successful and happy.

Just drop your caveman philosophy and all will be good.

[Derek White]

2 hours ago, Nilsi said:

life is an illusion and participating in it is evil

I participate in life fully.

2 hours ago, Nilsi said:

So basically you‘re projecting your shadow into Leo and picking a fight with him, now that he’s at a low point, because deep down it bothers you that other people, who are not as „virtuous“ as you, are more successful and happy.

Firstly, I don't consider Leo successful, materially or spiritually. 

You are labelling me as some "classic eastern philosophy mumbo jumbo" and casting me aside. Actually you are the one projecting your own ideas onto what I wrote. You are not seeing what I wrote for what it is at all, just labelling it and putting it aside.

I felt the need to clarify because you have misrepresented what I'm saying so much.

I'm not going to elaborate further though, if people get it they get it, if they don't, oh well. 

4 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

I would try to become aware of the tendency to latch onto role models and external sources of knowledge or wisdom, and also try to identify an internal compass that is based on logic and not just feeling

I only mention J Krishnamurti because listening to him can be helpful but you have to self-reflect together with him. You can do it alone yourself too, just pay attention to what's happening. In the past I've also made a post which was critical of him, but my view of him has changed after listening to him again. I am using my "internal compass" and "questioning" everyone. 
 

[Miguel1]

Is this guy trolling?

You speak in circles and yourself into a bag (Finnish saying ), bro.