Someone please talk Christianity out of me.

[KatiesKarma]

13 minutes ago, TheAlchemist said:

Psychedelic states and psychosis can put you in a paranoid state of mind where you will draw connections that seem to make sense but are really just the mind grappling with reality and projecting fear, even utter terror into some finite symbol in order to maintain its idea of itself.

I have a similiar background, being raised in evangelical environments. I once took LSD and watched a bit of Leos video on God Consciousness. I sensed that I was about to open a door that once opened could never be closed again. Right then the video started freezing up, getting very low quality and it just stopped, due to connection issues. It froze and I thought Leo looked like a total demon in that frame that froze and I thought he was deceiving me and was the devil himself. I felt quite terrified in that moment. I realized later that this was clearly my Christian conditioning coming up and through integrating it I shed the tendency to ascribe evil meanings to any forms or objects. They only have power to the extent that they are feared (or desired).

And I also stopped giving such authority to external figures or symbols. I wouldn't give even the figure of Leo such authority anymore. Essentially what you are doing when calling a form a demon or absolute evil is giving them a sort of metaphysical authority, saying to yourself that this form is controlling reality in some fundamental sense. And also reinforcing the idea that the nature of reality can be split into some absolute good vs. evil. Which both are strongly tied to evangelical Christian conditioning.

These symbols and forms ultimately cannot touch what you are and ultimately they don't have power over you if you don't allow them to. It seems it is just the mind struggling with its deepest fears, it is never about the form or symbol itself, they are very much neutral. The mind just projects up all sorts of meanings onto those forms in an attempt to protect an idea it has of itself as some limited form. It does this most effectively through deep fear I believe..

THANK YOU

 

What you describe in the 2nd paragraph has happened A LOT OF TIMES TO ME

The video would get low quality, I would see 666 everywhere, Hell threats everywhere etc it fucks with you after some time

 

[DefinitelyNotARobot]

11 hours ago, KatiesKarma said:

I had psychosis from this that's why I am concerned. Thanks 

I've had similar experiences. I became an atheist when I was like 10 or so, but every time I've experienced psychosis my Christian upbringing came back up, making me question everything I've been doing. It made me question whether spiritual work is satanism, whether getting enlightened actually means selling your soul, whether I had demons in me, etc.

It's a difficult thing to deal with because its such an integral part of your programming. What happened to me is that I had an emotional break down like 2 years ago where a lot of emotions came up. It was a moment of utter confusion. I felt so lost, like I didn't know what was and wasn't real anymore. I was so scared, so I decided to pray and tell god (I was visualizing the Christian god, you could say that I was giving him my last few words in case he was real) everything I needed to get off of my chest. I had an intimate conversation with god, where I was basically confronting all of my Christian upbringing. I said something along the lines of: "I'm sorry god. I'm truly sorry if the path I've taken is the wrong one. I know that, if there is someone that will understand why I did what I did, it's going to be you. So I hope you understand. I hope you understand that I just can't do it. I just can't believe a 2000 year old book. I can't believe my family. My culture. My society. I can't, because I would've to be lying to myself. I will do it, I will walk this spiritual path, and I hope that you understand why I'm doing it. It resonates with me deeply. So if I'm falling for the devils trap, please forgive me, because I know that nobody else will forgive me. If the satanists are brain washing me with their ideals, please forgive me for being an idiot. Please just understand why I'm doing this. I just can't. So if the devil is luring me in, please be understanding with me."

I could go much more into depth about the conversation I had, but it's not necessary. The point is that you will actually have to confront all of your upbringing. You will have to confront the devil, demons, the Christian god, hell, evil and all of that. What helped me confront all of this was to surrender to god. Surrender to god and actually trust the process. Trust his vision for you. Trust that you're on the right path, because why would god put you on the "wrong" path? God isn't an asshole. He didn't create you just so that you could go to hell for sinning.

So after I had said everything I needed to say and after I had cried a lot of tears, I finally came to a point where I was willing to let go and move on. These days, even in a psychosis, I can come back to this point of time and feel secure with the decision I've made, because even if it was the wrong decision, I trust that I said everything I needed to say.

 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, TheAlchemist said:

Most people have no idea how deep the fundamentalist Christian conditioning penetrates into the mind and a persons whole being, they think its just like believing in Santa Claus and one day you just stop believing and become rational. But if you have been raised into it somce birth, your whole worldview is shaped by it and deep fears are installed in your mind to prevent you from even seriously questioning the dogma. I wouldn't call it an exagerration if someone feels that they have been truly brainwashed by the fundamentalist conditioning. It can take years or even decades to shed that conditioning, and its important to be patient and compassionate with yourself in that process.

THIS.

[Majed]

@Leo Gura exactly and even when people call themselves "atheists" the conditioning is still there, not realizing that they're taking a position towards something that is not relevant and defining their worldview as the opposite of that. 

it's like you never define your beliefs as the opposite of animism, or greek mythology. why do it when it comes to christianity, or islam ? 

Edited August 6, 2023 by Majed

[Leo Gura]

Materialism is even worse and more sneaky than Christianity. All these worldviews operate in the background, invisible to the mind.

Edited August 6, 2023 by Leo Gura

[ZzzleepingBear]

If your whole motivation for going to heaven is based on the fear of not going to heaven.

Then what is really heaven, is getting out of that loop of fear of not going to heaven. 

It's easier to do whats right when it feels right to you, and not out of some arbitrary notion of obligation to fearful thoughs.

[Husseinisdoingfine]

I never liked it when New Age types ruthlessly trash Christianity, Christianity has produced so many great mystics and esoteric teachings.

[Luminescence]

Esoteric Christianity can lead to ecstatic states of union with God. Most Christians are so blind its just baffling to me. Religion has been weponized of course.  

Christ consciousness is incredibly powerful, don't underestimate it. 

[Princess Arabia]

3 hours ago, DefinitelyNotARobot said:

I've had similar experiences. I became an atheist when I was like 10 or so, but every time I've experienced psychosis my Christian upbringing came back up, making me question everything I've been doing. It made me question whether spiritual work is satanism, whether getting enlightened actually means selling your soul, whether I had demons in me, etc.

It's a difficult thing to deal with because its such an integral part of your programming. What happened to me is that I had an emotional break down like 2 years ago where a lot of emotions came up. It was a moment of utter confusion. I felt so lost, like I didn't know what was and wasn't real anymore. I was so scared, so I decided to pray and tell god (I was visualizing the Christian god, you could say that I was giving him my last few words in case he was real) everything I needed to get off of my chest. I had an intimate conversation with god, where I was basically confronting all of my Christian upbringing. I said something along the lines of: "I'm sorry god. I'm truly sorry if the path I've taken is the wrong one. I know that, if there is someone that will understand why I did what I did, it's going to be you. So I hope you understand. I hope you understand that I just can't do it. I just can't believe a 2000 year old book. I can't believe my family. My culture. My society. I can't, because I would've to be lying to myself. I will do it, I will walk this spiritual path, and I hope that you understand why I'm doing it. It resonates with me deeply. So if I'm falling for the devils trap, please forgive me, because I know that nobody else will forgive me. If the satanists are brain washing me with their ideals, please forgive me for being an idiot. Please just understand why I'm doing this. I just can't. So if the devil is luring me in, please be understanding with me."

I could go much more into depth about the conversation I had, but it's not necessary. The point is that you will actually have to confront all of your upbringing. You will have to confront the devil, demons, the Christian god, hell, evil and all of that. What helped me confront all of this was to surrender to god. Surrender to god and actually trust the process. Trust his vision for you. Trust that you're on the right path, because why would god put you on the "wrong" path? God isn't an asshole. He didn't create you just so that you could go to hell for sinning.

So after I had said everything I needed to say and after I had cried a lot of tears, I finally came to a point where I was willing to let go and move on. These days, even in a psychosis, I can come back to this point of time and feel secure with the decision I've made, because even if it was the wrong decision, I trust that I said everything I needed to say.

 

Very deep. Thanks for sharing this. I can resonate. Not in the exact way but similar. I let go of everything Christian for years and held no similar beliefs for a long time, and as I was in the process of becoming Atheist and started to say to myself there was no God, there can't be a God, it revealed itself to me. So, I was fortunate in the sense that I didn't have to do much unpacking and letting go of a lot of dogma because I was pretty much a clean slate. I naturally have an open mind anyway, so in this respect, I was open to receiving the Truth. There's still a lot to learn about myself and how the mind works but at least I know where to start from. 

Surrendering is the key for me, and even though resistance arises at times, I'm more aware of it, and with practice it becomes a lot easier. Most people need proof of this and that and are very logical in their thinking, but for me it is an intuitive knowing. There's still a lot to overcome because the mind is so tricky, and the conditioning is so deep, but awareness is the key to developing a strong sense of presence and I keep practicing the art of letting go and the recognition that things are just happening and that all we need to do is to become aware of how we respond to what's happening. What we resist persists. That's the real lesson.

[TheAlchemist]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Materialism is even worse and more sneaky than Christianity. All these worldviews operate in the background, invisible to the mind.

Do you think someone can go from being a fundamentalist Christian type straight to a post-materialist mystic? Or is the hyper rationalist scientific thinking mode a necessary stepping stone towards depth for most people who are coming from backgrounds of fundamentalism and/or magical thinking?

 

I'm still wondering about that. For me it seems rationality and scientific thinking has been a necessary stepping stone and I have needed that as a tool to shed the fundamentalist Christianity out of me. But there are probably exceptions..

[Rafael Thundercat]

I was a mormon and I was able to descontruct my own conditioning. Took effort but I swept the rug from my own feet. You can to if you contemplate enogth and make the rigth questions. 

[TheAlchemist]

3 hours ago, Majed said:

@Leo Gura exactly and even when people call themselves "atheists" the conditioning is still there, not realizing that they're taking a position towards something that is not relevant and defining their worldview as the opposite of that. 

it's like you never define your beliefs as the opposite of animism, or greek mythology. why do it when it comes to christianity, or islam ? 

I think the pendulum tends to swing far that way in many cases because a proper distancing from fundamentalism and magical thinking is necessary for most who have been raised and conditioned into it. Kind of like a teenager who rebels against his overprotective parents to create his own identity and sense of self. The essence is not that the person actually hates their parents, they just need to rebel for a bit to establish their own space and sense of self. Eventually most come around and come to respect their parents while being fully grown adults themselves. But yes, I think some can get stuck in the rebel phase, but ultimately the rebellion serves an important purpose in many cases and shouldn't be dismissed and might even be worth encouraging in some tactful way.  

Edited August 6, 2023 by TheAlchemist

[UnbornTao]

It's easy to challenge your faith, and recommended. Notice it's a belief you're holding and that the truth of the matter is unknown to you.

If it's empowering in some form, keep it, if not, drop it.

Edited August 8, 2023 by UnbornTao

[Anon212]

10 hours ago, MAHAVATAR_-_BABAJI said:

Your understanding is only as deep as the humans who gave you it. 

Damn this is true

[MAHAVATAR_-_BABAJI]

Imagine being so conscious the things you say annoy and trouble the pigs in the mud. You humans thought Santa clause was real. I never believed anything outside of my experience. Live that way and you will be alone. Be a Christian and you will gain the fruits from the many.

Edited August 6, 2023 by MAHAVATAR_-_BABAJI
I needed to haha

[KatiesKarma]

@Leo Gura So who was Jesus then and what was his deal 

Do you think he just randomly awoke one day and started preaching and somehow no one was able to fathom the message?

 

[Hojo]

@Husseinisdoingfine because like most religion if not all its corrupt now. Maybe in the beginning it was pure but not now. Now you are born and thrown in front of a preacher who is actively trying to sabotage your mind. And this goes into your parents mind and they do it to you too. 

In a sense they are forcing you to become a sinner and you can't fight it. Its a weird fucking cult of satan

[gettoefl]

24 minutes ago, KatiesKarma said:

@Leo Gura So who was Jesus then and what was his deal 

Do you think he just randomly awoke one day and started preaching and somehow no one was able to fathom the message?

 

to get the real scoop on jesus read some bernadette roberts

she will give you what christianity was supposed to be

 

http://bernadetteroberts.blogspot.com/p/booksmanuscripts_22.html

 

feel free to ask any questions, i have read all her books and know her deeply

her masterpiece is the real christ, but it is hard work if you are not familiar with her

 

her books are supposed to be FREE but you may have to do some digging to get the free stuff

Edited August 6, 2023 by gettoefl

[KatiesKarma]

2 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

to get the real scoop on jesus read some bernadette roberts

she will give you what christianity was supposed to be

 

http://bernadetteroberts.blogspot.com/p/booksmanuscripts_22.html

 

feel free to ask any questions, i have read all her books and know her deeply

Since you've read the Books, can you give a summary?

Who was Jesus?

What did he try to accomplish?

What parts of the Bible are true and literal and what are complete metaphor or corrupted?

 

[gettoefl]

2 minutes ago, KatiesKarma said:

Since you've read the Books, can you give a summary?

Who was Jesus?

What did he try to accomplish?

What parts of the Bible are true and literal and what are complete metaphor or corrupted?

 

click the link and read from half way down the page and you will get a great feel

i wouldn't want to compete with the mystic herself for general information

she will ultimately reaffirm what every mystic throughout history has said about one's true nature

the man jesus came precsely to show people how to come to said true nature