Many People Who Are Fighting Absolute Solipsism Do Not Even Know What It Is

[Breakingthewall]

33 minutes ago, Sincerity said:

God the amount of blabbering You guys are doing. ?‍♂️

A little less conversation, a little more action please...

What do you want me to do if this is the only thing that is interesting to me? shit, I'm starting to do what I thought I would never do: talk about this with people outside of this forum as if it were normal ?? 

@Water by the River  So You started to meditate seriously without having any opening until after a long time, that happened, right? Why you did? what motivated you? you and I are the ying and the yang, order and chaos ?

 

Edited May 31 by Breakingthewall

[Water by the River]

8 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

@Water by the River  So You started to meditate seriously without having any opening until after a long time, that happened, right?

Yes. I saw too much deep structure similiarties in all the spiritual traditions. That made sense to me. That was the only coherent explanation of the Kosmos for me. And the concept of Integral (Wilber) resonated deeply in me.

So, a long time nothing happened where it could be said that meditation is more than just mindfulness training. Relaxing, interesting, a bit of bliss, but also in the beginning just one of the hardest and most annoying things one can try. Basic meditation training: Formal training on the pillow, mindfulness during daily life. Over quite some years.

Stage 1 Mahamudra: Skill of Reckongition: And the thing with the increased thought-emerging-frequency was really the point where it took off. First, the ability to stay "on top" of the mindstream and cut it at will. Later, awakened states with nonduality followed.

Stage 2/3: So then, a few years later, Nonduality followed. Before that point, it brought quite some bliss. But nothing where one could say: Yes, thats it. Don't need any external proof or convincing anymore. Nonduality changes that. It is evident.

Stage 4: And then later, after some years letting these states develop and ripen, always here Ultimate Reality started dawning.

4 Mahamudra Main-stages:

0: Initial Concentrative Meditation as preaparation

1 stage: Skill of Reckognition: Cutting off the Thought Mindstream

2 stage: Yoga of Unelaboration:  Always Here (never not here, timeless) Mind opens up

3: Yoga of One Taste: Nonduality

4: Yoga of Nonmeditation: Separate Self gets transcended. Pure Impersonal infinite Consciousness/Awareness without any separate-self flying around in it, itself being the world and all manifestation.

That is the deep structure found in every meditation system. It is always in a deep structure similiar to that. And the tricky point, where most of the discussion happens here: Between 3 and 4. Psychedelics do bring one to a pretty empty nonduality. But not to that which stage 4 brings.... Not fully empty and impersonal. Not fully conforming to the enlightened mindstream.

Water by the River

Edited June 1 by Water by the River

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, Moksha said:

You don't even have to go to fear. You only need to remain anchored in the absolute, which is beyond fear. Everything else appearing to arise is a distraction, nothing more.

The only thing that separates you from the absolute is fear. fear is the capsule that creates the self. You can stop it with mechanical means, you have to overcome fear. work with psychedelics is for that. I have struggled with fear all my life, ever since I was a child. When i had 6 i already know that fear is that keep you imprisoned, because i grew surrounded of fear. There was a time when I was constantly doing things like wall climbing, hang gliding in extreme conditions , truly dangerous trips by boat, always the fear. It was a way of approaching something that I did not understand in that moment. perhaps wrong, perhaps necessary at that moment. It's fear that keeps us apart. absolutely not a drop has to remain. we have to be able to look the abyss in the face, without tricks, without subterfuge. give ourselves completely. Its not easy!

Edited May 31 by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

4 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

Yes. I saw too much deep structure similiarties in all the spiritual traditions. That made sense to me. That was the only coherent explanation of the Kosmos for me. And the concept of Integral (Wilber) resonated deeply in me.

So, a long time nothing happened where it could be said that meditation is more than just mindfulness training. Relaxing, interesting, a bit of bliss, but also in the beginning just one of the hardest and most annoying things one can try. Basis meditation training: Formal training on the pillow, mindfulness during daily life. Over quite some years.

Stage 1 Mahamudra: Skill of Reckongition: And the thing with the increased thought-emerging-frequency was really the point where it took off. First, the ability to stay "on top" of the mindstream and cut it at will. Later, awakened states with nonduality followed.

Stage 2/3: So then, a few years later, Nonduality followed. Before that point, it brought quite some bliss. But nothing where one could say: Yes, thats it. Don't need any external proof or convincing anymore. Nonduality changes that. It is evident.

Stage 4: And then later, after some years letting these states develop and ripen, always here Ultimate Reality started dawning.

4 Mahamudra Main-stages:

0: Initial Concentrative Meditation as preaparation

1 stage: Skill of Reckognition: Cutting off the Thought Mindstream

2 stage: Yoga of Unelaboration:  Always Here (never not here, timeless) Mind opens up

3: Yoga of One Taste: Nonduality

4: Yoga of Nonmeditation: Separate Self gets transcended. Pure Impersonal infinite Consciousness/Awareness without any separate-self flying around in it, itself being the world and all manifestation.

That is the deep structure found in every meditation system. It is always in a deep structure similiar to that. And the tricky point, where most of the discussion happens here: Between 3 and 4. Psychedelics do bring one to a pretty empty nonduality. But not to that which stage 4 brings.... Not fully empty and impersonal. Not fully confirming to the enlightened mindstream.

Water by the River

Sounds true, a smart and clean path, few can do that without the sting of suffering to push them. did you ever do psychedelics, or do you plan to do them? 5 months maybe? it would be very interesting

[Water by the River]

11 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Sounds true, a smart and clean path, few can do that without the sting of suffering to push them. did you ever do psychedelics, or do you plan to do them? 5 months maybe? it would be very interesting

Oh, I had my share of suffering, as every other being. But also some kind of compass and intuition that seemed to have pointed in a not too wrong direction. 

Concerning psychedelics, as I wrote before somewhere else: This is a public forum, and the stuff is illegal here. So please excuse that I don't give a comment. Daniel Brown (Author of Pointing Out the Great Way, the book I mainly used for the meditation techniques I describe) once answered when asked if he had experience with Psychedelics,in a  tongue in cheeck-style: "I would never do something like that", and smiled   .He did studies while studying Psychology at Harvard giving LSD to terminal Cancer Patients, with great results. Until it was forbidden. Luckily, Johns Hopkins University and others continue with similiar studies with Psilocybin.

Edited May 31 by Water by the River

[Moksha]

14 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

It's fear that keeps us apart. absolutely not a drop has to remain. we have to be able to look the abyss in the face, without tricks, without subterfuge. give ourselves completely. Its not easy!

It's true. Fear is the mask that the absolute wears to hide from itself. Why hide? So it can experience the thrill of the chase.

Eventually, exhaustion sets in and it realizes the chase has run its course. Time to remove the mask and go home.

Demasking is easier when you realize fear is an illusion, and the entire chase was only a child's game.

[Breakingthewall]

39 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Demasking is easier when you realize fear is an illusion, and the entire chase was only a child's game.

Crazy game, a real enigma, but very funny. 

[Breakingthewall]

@Water by the River If you did 5 meo you should talk about that, for the progress of science. and if you never did, for the same reason you should do it. you are a professional meditator. You can contribute enormously to explain something very important to humanity. it's not a small thing! 

Forget "psychedelics", 5meo is the real deal

Edited May 31 by Breakingthewall

[Moksha]

8 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Crazy game, a real enigma, but very funny. 

Genuine laughter, despite the doom shadow, can be leveraged to remove the mask. The ego takes itself so seriously. 

@Bazooka Jesus You out there?

[Breakingthewall]

10 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Genuine laughter, despite the doom shadow, can be leveraged to remove the mask. The ego takes itself so seriously. 

@Bazooka Jesus You out there?

I laugh alone more and more, realizing the reality. It's full, alive, wonderful, free.

[Yimpa]

3 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I laugh alone more and more, realizing the reality. It's full, alive, wonderful, free.

I was legit just laughing for a good 5 mins before I read your comment.

Reality is the biggest jokester ever!

[Moksha]

9 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I laugh alone more and more, realizing the reality. It's full, alive, wonderful, free.

It's true. I mentioned a while back that I had a long conversation with a member of the forum that I consider to be awake. Can you call it a conversation when the majority of it is full-on eye-wiping laughter? Silence may be next to godliness, but laughter runs a close second place.

 

 

[Water by the River]

9 hours ago, Moksha said:

If you let the thought get close enough that you need to consider whether or not it makes sense, it's too late. You missed the shot. To master archery requires realizing that every thought is a lie, and automatically shooting it down. It's not about struggling against or analyzing thoughts or habits, but about deeply realizing that they always lead to suffering. They are the enemy, and need not be given any ground. Take a clean shot and move on.

Whenever a thought arises, do not be carried away by it. Be rid of thoughts.

The more integrated you become, the clearer it is that thoughts are an unnecessary byproduct of the conditioned mind. You start to live directly, beyond thoughts. You are under no delusion that thoughts can help you, despite their insistence to the contrary.

On the relative level, basic thoughts contributing to survival are fine, but they are dramatically less necessary than most people realize. Generally, you can survive just fine on autopilot.

Very nice description, and interesting similiarity. That is exactly the essence of the  method (Mahamudra stage 1. Skill of Reckognition) once really implemented (after a long time of practice to get really able to do that) that got things really going for me with awakened states. 

"What happens if you investigate into emerging thoughts this way, is that they get FASTER. VERY FAST. Like 20-30 emergent thoughts/feeling arisings per second, most of them rudimentary. The mind does this to keep the illusion going. To make it too fast for you. But at some point, one learns to get that fast also..."

• Basically, looking into a thought, one sees its Emptiness/Nothingness (one doesn't find the thought, it evaporates). It is cut off. Dzogchen calls this cutting off "Trekchö".
• Daniel Brown called this stage a "High Speed Search Task into the unfindability of the nature of thoughts". A High Speed Search task into their emptiness, into their nature as consciousness, as Nothingness.
• So the emerging gets fast, very fast. Daniel Ingram also mentions that. But at some point, with enough practice and familiarity, YOU get faster. You spot and cut off every very fast, subtle, fragmentary thought arising. None of them "grips" you anymore, since you have seen them all, and their structure. Just thoughts arising very fast
• ...., see link below

Selling Water by the River

[Javfly33]

12 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

an experience of total openness to infinity with 5 meo is something that I doubt even mystics like ramana maharshi or Ramakrishna can access. It is something forbidden, impossible. It is not silence or emptiness, it is the essence of reality, it is total enlightenment, it is impossible. is the infinity alive. 

To be able to open yourself totally with 5 meo is not easy. the substance is not going to do everything for you. It is a big help, but it is you who must open up

I'm not denying the power of 5-Meo, I'm just saying, there are clearer states of being that those ones. 

And if it just all about power or wackiness then let's go do some salvia or some Meth. If it's just all about feeling things...

My purpose is clarity, after several years of tripping I realized that That wouldn't come with psychedelics, even if they helped paving the way?

 

Again, the narrative of Leo in the past of "you are not going to get to this level even meditating for 100 years" has taken a toll in peoples mind of what is possible.

But I don't want to sugarcoat things, most people meditation skills will definitely not "produce" any type of 5-Meo kind of state/feeling.

What I'm talking about it's raising your inner energies so much you can close your eyes and sit in certain positions that perception explodes.

 

I can do Pranayama techniques that are the same as 5-Meo smoking from a crack pipe. I can hold a bandha and separation from objects completely disappears, that same feeling I used to have 5-meo plugged would come up and I would be terrified because I didn't know where or what I was...now it happens with the practice...?? But the difference is there is no fear.

I can hold a mudra and I'm somewhere else...far away from the body that is sit in the living room (Although that 'somewhere else' it's also Here who am I kidding ?).

 

Anyways, enough of so much Bragging, I'm just saying, is possible to go so much intense and deep than most people think. If you want to know "but can I really produce the same feeling of 5-meo without taking it"? Well, I don't know, probably not. If you think taking 5-Meo is something fundamental for you, then I can't tell you anything else, it's your path. Just sharing what is possible...

 

Edited June 1 by Javfly33

[OBEler]

@Javfly33 could it be that you unlocked something with 5 meo and your Yoga exercises just trigger these 5 meo reactivations? 

My girlfriend had a 5 meo breakthrough. Then did 1 week later Wim Hof. She had an 5 meo activation then and experienced a similar 5 meo trip but not so strong of course 

[Breakingthewall]

2 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

I'm not denying the power of 5-Meo, I'm just saying, there are clearer states of being that those ones. 

And if it just all about power or wackiness then let's go do some salvia or some Meth. If it's just all about feeling things...

My purpose is clarity, awakening, absolute and total death and stillness. After several years of tripping I realized that That wouldn't come with psychedelics, even if they helped paving the way?

 

Again, the narrative of Leo in the past of "you are not going to get to this level even meditating for 100 years" has taken a toll in peoples mind of what is possible.

But I don't want to sugarcoat things, most people meditation skills will definitely not "produce" any type of 5-Meo kind of state/feeling.

What I'm talking about it's raising your inner energies so much you can close your eyes and sit in certain positions that perception explodes.

 

I can do Pranayama techniques that are the same as 5-Meo smoking from a crack pipe. I can hold a bandha and separation from objects completely disappears. I can hold a mudra and I'm somewhere else... (Although that 'somewhere else' it's also Here who am I kidding ?).

 

Anyways, it is possible to go so much intense than most people think. If you want to know "but can I really produce the same feeling of 5-meo"? Well, I don't know, probably not. If you think taking 5-Meo is something fundamental for you, then I can't tell you anything else, it's your path. Just sharing what is possible...

 

I'm not looking for peak sensations, I'm looking for openness and liberation from human barriers. I use 5meo as a tool, not as an end, in fact I meditate 2 hours a day and if I can 3. For me the most important thing is to open up to who I am, not doing it seems crazy to me. then 5meo is an invaluable help. First, opening up to 5meo requires a lot of work. if you have done 5 meo with doses almost but no, you have not done it. it has to be whole. second, full opening, if given, creates a permanent change in your energetic configuration. And 3, this is enlightenment, be one with the absolute.

I think Leo is wrong about many things, one of them is spreading that meditating is unnecessary for this work, but it seems that for Leo it's very important to be sooooo special. What to do? but we have to keep the value of his message. We'll see what comes next. Waiting for the aliens ?

[Javfly33]

Just now, OBEler said:

@Javfly33 could it be that you unlocked something with 5 meo and your Yoga exercises just trigger these 5 meo reactivations? 

My girlfriend had a 5 meo breakthrough. Then did 1 week later Wim Hof. She had an 5 meo activation then and experienced a similar 5 meo trip but not so strong of course 

I received energy transmission in the precise practice I do, but overall it was just surrendering completely and being aware so much that I'm infinitely powerful, of course a simple practice can do anything, all is imaginary/Power.

At the end of the day psychedelics do work because their effects are imagined within the dream.

The same with the practice.

5-Meo IS IMAGINARY! The yoga practice is IMAGINARY!

Sounding like Leo now...oh god ?

[Javfly33]

11 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

be one with the absolute.

 

That's already two ?

 

What prevents you from not being "who you are" Right fucking Now??

 

There's actually no difference between your sober experience and 5-Meo experience.

Stop thinking any time has actually passed since the last 5-meo trip and NOW

There's no time, no experience, no body, no mind, no self, no distance, no pov, no nothing. Every kind of separation or suffering it's created by concepts, beliefs, thoughts.

 

[Razard86]

Many of you do not know what the Ego is. You talk ignorantly about it but don't actually have a clue. Now I didn't need to have a deep awakening to what the ego was as I have observed it my whole life, but Leo had a trip report in the past that explains it. Since many will block/close their mind to what I say....why not listen to Leo basically say the same thing. 

https://www.actualized.org/insights/what-its-like-to-smoke-salvia

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

That's already two ?

 

What prevents you from not being "who you are" Right fucking Now??

 

There's actually no difference between your sober experience and 5-Meo experience.

Stop thinking any time has actually passed since the last 5-meo trip and NOW

There's no time, no experience, no body, no mind, no self, no distance, no pov, no nothing. Every kind of separation or suffering it's created by concepts, beliefs, thoughts.

 

When you did 5meo, did you get a total openess? I mean, did you became completely infinite, without awareness of being a human, having a body. complete relaxation of control, ultimate reality. the total absolute infinity, what is existence, and did you recognize yourself as the eternal infinity in complete freedom?