Enlightement is still a dream and Buddhism doesn't go all the way

[Gesundheit2]

@Carl-Richard ??

[ValiantSalvatore]

8 hours ago, vishnusavestheday said:

I've said shit like this before but try going homeless for a while and see for yourself if meditation/yoga is more profound than tripping is to you. Try both. With meditation on the road you get the feeling that you create the space you occupy, and the calm that goes with it. It's intentional. With tripping on the road you get the feeling that you are never getting to catch your breath in a place you can trust. It's stumbling.

 

The strengths of practices are measured by their instances and their circumstances, that's systems thinking.

New science will always claim that it's breaking news but it's really just tapping on instances and occurrences as if they're the rule

I dunno it might shock you that I agree 99.9% there are so many methods ancient civilizations used even in medicine that are not repeatable today, just from skimming some ancient books. Science exists in contrast to human life span on planet earth for only a brief moment in time. 

There are so many "re-inventions" the issue is who is doing it? Be part of the problem either or be part of the solution that is the problem. Science is for everyone 99.9% of people just are corrupt, so they should at best not even start. That is my opinion. 

Meditation and yoga homeless sure I agree, I wish you would have written with a bit more nuance so I can take it seriously. As you seem very intelligent. Apparently... if compliments like this are still allowed lol.

I never tripped on the road, although having a stable meditation practice/yoga practice just helps tremendously with tripping. I can give you the direct answer to why I disagree with the 0.1% life style choices and life styles matter. There is no way an enviroment has 0 impact. As well as every individual functions differently. So one might benefit more from beign homless and using psyches as a way to grow spiritually, as for contrast someone who only benefits from meditation and yoga. Using both might also be to much for some and for some it might be the quintessential and non-plus ultra as a practice tool?

I don't think a real spiritual practice discludes both/all. Psychcedelics, Meditation and Yoga even exercise (for some western spirit and Wilber knowledge) is profundly beneficial for spiritual growth.

What pisses me off, is that there is 0 understanding of human psychology and the use of shadow work in most religious places regardless if it is some indian based religion as well as "far east" religion including west/north/south religions. By far all the cult shit that has happend the last 100 years was a wake up call to psychology and the psychedelic rennesaince, it's crazy how important psyches are in terms of also dealing with shadow issues. 

Some have more some have less. Yes, that is obviously important to mention?

The point is someone has to practice is and balancing this double-edged sword in different life styles and circumstances is real challenge. Intent counts a lot. I had stronger meditative experience than psychdelic experience. I had an experience of Omniscience as ... Enneagram type 5? (apparently there is interesting... neuroscience to this) which for me is as 4w5 is an ideal state to reach an higher ideal. That experience was almost life alterting I checked in with doctors, no one can anaylze this data they, don't even have the tools in one of the most developed countries. 

The majority also clings to science, so it's basically their new doctrine. Most are not skeptical enough to be consistently a sciencetist/artist. That is to advanced for most to handle. Oh, yes and I broke down a couple of times trying. Still going at it...

Edited October 14, 2022 by ValiantSalvatore

[BipolarGrowth]

I will say that banning @Consilience would seem like a horrible mistake to me. He’s one of the most dedicated people I’ve seen on here, and from memory, generally pretty pleasant and respectful. 
 

Its a bit worrying to see this exchange because it brings to mind the thought that “do the work” seems to these days mean something closer to “do the drugs” which is not feasible or tenable for many people. I know for a fact Leo himself has seen the nonsense, not at all his fault, that came from me following his recommended methods. 

[Jake Chambers]

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Consilience You are so goddamn stupid.

NONE OF THAT IS GOD!

P.S. Your time here is running thin. Wise up soon or I'm kicking you out.

 

 

[Breakingthewall]

a question for Leo. let's see, sometimes members, like amanem for example, publish a trip report where they have gone as deep as possible, etc, and you say: good! you got to the bottom! that is awakening. etc. and then in the forum you repeat: nobody here is awake, only me. Let's see, what is this? a joke? trolling? because those of us who are in the spirituality forum are serious, we don't play. We take your integrity for granted and we try to be the best of integrity.

[PeaceOut96]

On 13/10/2022 at 3:19 AM, aurum said:

From a practical perspective there is fear, but that’s only a partial truth to explaining why people are not more awake.

From the perspective of the God Self, being asleep is not a problem. In fact, if you are asleep it’s because this is what the God Self is constructing. You’re just not aware that you’re constructing it or how you’re using fear to lock yourself asleep. Which is also part of your construction.

None of it is an error. There is value to be had from the experience of sleeping.

Of course, eventually you want to wake up. And that will also not be an error. But on the otherside of awakening is realizing that fear is your construction, not something outside of you that is holding you back and making you a victim. The fear is created for you, by you.

Indeed Aurum

On 13/10/2022 at 0:53 PM, Breakingthewall said:

 High quality. @PeaceOut96 could you explain more or less your process? 

I am in a point in my life where deattachment is a huge part of my experience. I no longer try to get to a special point, many things just flow. After a kundalini awakening and deep purification of mind, body and emotions there is a deep sense of trust in me. I can meditate now I feel deep love in my being, but the downside or you could say the price is that when I feel much pain, darkness in my being is also there where the energy of love is able to get trough. So I am still here thinking I am seperate, but the illussion is not so strong any more. 

[vladorion]

23 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

God serves you exactly the opposite of what you want

God gives you whatever you want.

But what you want is most of the time not what you think you want.

 

[Pateedm]

On 14/10/2022 at 3:45 PM, Leo Gura said:

@Consilience You are so goddamn stupid.

NONE OF THAT IS GOD!

P.S. Your time here is running thin. Wise up soon or I'm kicking you out.

That would be a goddamn stupid decision.

[Johnny Galt]

Something to consider, considering how humans are in the habit of playing the telephone game with language, maybe it's possible that what we name as buddhism , gnosticism, philosophy, etc, it has become something else entirely. This is what I have found. Most have never read the original texts in their original languages and so what do we really know? When we speak to something like buddhism, who's "buddhism" are we referring to? 

For one to claim, I am god, or that to become realized as god is the purpose of spirituality, this is one who is unknowingly still operating through an abrahamic lens and so we are still mimicking on some level without even realizing it. Considering that it is the abrahamic 3 that have desecrated and distorted the ways of old it might be wise for one to focus on dissolving ego and crystallized attachments rather than on achieving some preconceived notion of what the ultimate state of being is. Do the ground work, live in alignment with nature, and in turn one moves much closer to this so called "god state". But, if we are attempting to achieve this "god state" through drugs and the fast path, we create the dillusions and barriers which we so call claim to be beyond and yet one won't even realize it. Note though, sometimes the drugs and fast path can be an essential part to one's path of dissolving and breaking on through to the other side and so a paradox it is. 

Edited October 17, 2022 by Johnny Galt

[nuwu]

@Johnny Galt internet sources claim buddhism has been oral tradition for centuries before being written down. we don't know what buddha exactly ever said. and it was necessarily limited to past morality and conceptual understandings, such as there were no mathematical constructs to project onto metaphysics like cardinal or absolute infinities. the technology for reliable psychedelics wasn't developed either. maya did use mushrooms in their spiritual tradition but it didn't survive into our modern world for some reason. nevertheless, it's all the imagination of now, and the historical ramifications do not provide much evidence of anything, where the endless ego knot potentially hides truth at all levels.

i dont think leo's itch to ban tradition-oriented users is a good thing. it doesn't seem like this is a problem which can be solved at the individual level on a case by case basis. it's much deeper than this. whether it ends up highlighting the incompleteness of buddha, leo, neither or both, it might be worth exploring. we shouldn't fear experimenting with truth to see how well it stands. i hope leo takes care of his consciousness, but also would like to learn more about how this evolves with more than just a taste.

[Breakingthewall]

3 hours ago, nuwu said:

dont think leo's itch to ban tradition-oriented users is a good thing

Leo said that because he has very insolent and cretinous moments, but as far as I know he has never kicked anyone out of here because of his way of thinking, he kicks out people who are trolls, insufferable,  and with a lot of patience. here he has only said a nonsense and that's it, and he apologize in his subtle way 

Edited October 17, 2022 by Breakingthewall

[Carl-Richard]

6 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

he has never kicked anyone out of here because of his way of thinking

Hahaha that's not true.

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

Hahaha that's not true.

Well, as far as i know...for example?

Edited October 17, 2022 by Breakingthewall

[nuwu]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

he kicks out people who are trolls

metafunposting with insufferable weeb spam and still not banned

a-am i doing it wrong?

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

Well, as far as i know...for example?

Nahm.

[Breakingthewall]

15 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Nahm.

Really??? Man, nahm was a troll, and was in the forum for business. In fact I doubt about Leo is so smart as he thinks because he didn't seem to notice, it seemed like he and nahm were the cool kids in the class when it was obvious what nahm was. 

[Jodistrict]

On 10/12/2022 at 5:19 PM, PeaceOut96 said:

Enlightement is still a dream and buddhism in its general form doesn't go all the way to God realization. 
 

Buddhists have gone all the way, which is why they understand that it is not productive to talk about it.  The instant that you use words, you form another useless belief system.  I am not even sure if it is possible to go as far in the modern world with its comforts, perception of time, egotism, and other limiting cultural concepts.  Even the scriptures suggest that Buddhism will for forgotten as consciousness is lost. 

Here are a few quotes from Huangbo:

“If you would only rid yourselves of the concepts of ordinary and Enlightened, you would find that there is no other Buddha than the Buddha in your own Mind. The arising and the elimination of illusion are both illusory. Illusion is not something rooted in Reality; it exists because of your dualistic thinking. If you will only cease to indulge in opposed concepts such as ‘ordinary’ and ‘Enlightened’, illusion will cease of itself.”

“Study leads to the retention of concepts and so the Way is entirely misunderstood.”

“All the concepts you have formed in the past must be discarded and replaced by void.”

“All who reach this gate fear to enter.  To overcome this fear, one must enter it with the suddenness of a knife-thrust.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huangbo_Xiyun
 

Edited October 17, 2022 by Jodistrict

[Carl-Richard]

5 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Really??? Man, nahm was a troll, and was in the forum for business. In fact I doubt about Leo is so smart as he thinks because he didn't seem to notice, it seemed like he and nahm were the cool kids in the class when it was obvious what nahm was. 

I gave you a perfect example. I don't see why you're throwing a fit.

As for the way it all went down, it was just stupid. He allegedly demoted him for not changing his language, which is hypocritical considering how Leo uses the same obfuscating and confusing non-dual doublespeak all the time. "Coincidentally", all this happened at the same time as he started saying "non-duality is not God-realization" (which he explicitly talks about in the "Nahm Demoted" thread). And now, he wants to kick out people like Consilience — one of the most clear-spoken people on the forum. I think the real motivation behind removing Nahm was to denigrate traditional spirituality so he could get to call himself the most awake person in the world. And I'm mad about it. It split off maybe 70% of the best people on here.

Edited October 18, 2022 by Carl-Richard

[Breakingthewall]

11 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

gave you a perfect example. I don't see why you're throwing a fit.

I can't agree, i see in nahm an scammer. just my opinion. 

and I also think he would never throw consilence. Leo is very arrogant and any position that is not his own annoys him, but he knows how to perfectly differentiate between someone who adds value, such as consilence, and others who subtract it. or that's my impression.

[Carl-Richard]

27 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I can't agree, i see in nahm an scammer. just my opinion. 

That's absolutely cringe, but you're entitled to your opinion. I still gave a perfect example though ("he has never kicked anyone out of here because of his way of thinking").

 

29 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

and I also think he would never throw consilence.

Not on my watch.

 

31 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I can't agree, i see in nahm an scammer. just my opinion. 

and I also think he would never throw consilence. Leo is very arrogant and any position that is not his own annoys him, but he knows how to perfectly differentiate between someone who adds value, such as consilence, and others who subtract it. or that's my impression.

Ridiculous to call Nahm somebody who subtracted value from the forum.